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gold horse
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 360
   Posted 10/7/2010 11:28 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi guys I have a question.Is pc a disease for 50+ or is it heating a lot of jung people? shocked

Galileo
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 697
   Posted 10/7/2010 11:38 AM (GMT -6)   
Mainly older guys.

There are some of us younger ones around, though. I was diagnosed at 43. Less than one half of one percent of diagnoses are in men my age group (the age I was, that is).

The median age at diagnosis is 68. The majority of diagnoses and 80% of deaths from prostate cancer occur at 70 or later.

prostate-cancer.emedtv.com/prostate-cancer/prostate-cancer-statistics.html

Web demographics are skewed toward younger users, so that probably translates into a younger median age on this board than in the prostate cancer population as a whole.
Galileo

Dx Feb 2006, PSA 9 @age 43
RRP Apr 2006 - Gleason 3+4, T2c, NX MX, pos margins
PSA 5/06 <0.1, 8/06 0.2, 12/06 0.6, 1/07 0.7.
Salvage radiation (IMRT) Jan-Mar 2007
PSA 9/2007 and thereafter <0.1
pcabefore50.blogspot.com

Paul1959
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 598
   Posted 10/7/2010 4:22 PM (GMT -6)   
I was 46. Good buddy was 44, guy at work was 36! So much for statistics. they're great when you're in the right part of them!
Paul
www.franktalk.org ED website for PCa guys

46 at Diagnosis.
Father died of Pca 4/07 at 86.
10/07 PSA 5.06 (Biopsy 11/07 1 of 12 with 8% involvment) (1mm)
Da Vinci surgery Jan 5, '08 at Mt. Sinai Hosp. NYC www.roboticoncology.com
Saved both nerve bundles.
Path Report: Stage T2cNxMx
-Gleason (3+3)6
Pad free on March 14 - (10 weeks.) Never a problem since.
ED - at one year, ED is fine with viagra.
Two year PSA - undetectable!

ChrisR
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 825
   Posted 10/7/2010 4:58 PM (GMT -6)   
42. I probably had it at 35. My psa was 2.4 when I was 38. I think the stats. on young men are way off.

Post Edited (ChrisR) : 10/7/2010 5:01:32 PM (GMT-6)


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 10/7/2010 5:18 PM (GMT -6)   
56 at dx, and my uro with nearly 30 years exp at that time said i was one of his youngest pc patients. sure it varies a lot.
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 ?
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, on Catheter #21, will be having Ileal Conduit Surgery in Sept.

88CC
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 10/7/2010 5:21 PM (GMT -6)   
The mean age at diagnosis is one thing. But what is more disturbing to me is the autopsy results for men that were not diagnosed with PCa---about 40% of men over the age of 50 had prostate cancer. I don't know how large the sample is, but that is a shocking statistic (assuming it's true). I heard it from a surgeon last week at the UW Medical School in Seattle. I don't know if similar statistics have been collected for younger men, but I would assume the statistical distribution doesn't fall off too fast with decreasing age.

Also, my uro told me that men have a 1 in 3 chance of having prostate cancer after the age of 50. (My two brothers have already thanked me for being "the one" of three brothers.)

Cheers,
Age 55; living in Seattle area
PSA = 5.1 on July 19, 2010; no long term history
Bx on Aug 25, 2010; ultrasound showed 88cc volume (due to BPH)
Dx on Aug 31, 2010; 6 out of 20 cores positive
PNI in 2 cores
G = 6 (3+3); Clinical stage = T2a
No treatment yet; still researching options.

ChrisR
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 825
   Posted 10/7/2010 6:08 PM (GMT -6)   
88CC. I agree with you completely. If you started pulling people off the street and biopsying them. I bet you would find a lot of it were you did not expect it. At all ages. But once again we can't tell who would have desease that would progress and who's won't.
Dx 42
Gleason 6 (tertiary score 0)

open RP 10/08 Johns Hopkins

pT2 Organ confined Gleason 6

PSA
10/15/2009 <.1
10/15/2010 <0.03
10/15/2011 -

Ralph Alfalfa
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 469
   Posted 10/7/2010 6:16 PM (GMT -6)   
This forum is seeing a lot of the younger guys joining.  I can understand why they lowered the screening age from 50 to 40.  Darn shame.  My doc also referred to me as one of the younger guys.  If I'm one of them, then that means there are more out there.  My sons have started testing at their age because I've now set the protocol for having a history.  I'm soon to be 59(ouch) and was diagnosed at 57.  My sons are 32 and 27.  If you have sons that are over 30 it might be a good idea to suggest testing.  Sad, but well-meaning.
 
Bob

TaurusBull
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 91
   Posted 10/7/2010 6:17 PM (GMT -6)   
I was 49 when diagnosed in 2005. There was no known family history of it.
Dx: in 6/2005 age 49, PSA 4.1, 2/10 cores pos, G6, T1c
bone scan: negative
daVinci RRP 8/2005, Hartford Hospital, Dr. Wagner
Post-surgery upgraded G7 (3+4), pT2c, NX,MX, neg. margins, perineural invasion present, tumor invades capsule wall, but not entirely through it.
PSA <0.1 until 4th yr post surgery, then 7/09 0.1, 10/09 0.2, 1/10 0.2, 2/10 0.14, 4/10 0.16,
8/10 0.25, 9/10 0.23

goodlife
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 2691
   Posted 10/7/2010 7:17 PM (GMT -6)   

It is hard to draw conclusions from the sigs on HW, but it is hard not to do.

The younger guys are much more computer savvy, and therefore more likely to find HW than the 60 or 70 year old guys.  So we are seeing more and more younger guys on here.

The other fact is that PC may be growing in us for many years before it reaches a point where the PSA triggers a biopsy.  So even tho I was diagnosed at 58, I could have had microscopic amounts for years.

Finally, as John T so aptly points out, many men will die of natural causes never knowing they had PC, or even if they are diagnosed, may be able to live out their life without taking action.


Sleepless09
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 1267
   Posted 10/7/2010 7:55 PM (GMT -6)   
I agree with goodlife's thoughts on younger people being more computer savvy, but there may something else at work here too. Generally, I think the people here are of the more Type "A" sort who want to know the facts and use those in their decision making. I know a number of friends who have had PCa who would have zero interest in a group like this. They saw their uro, who sent them to a surgeon, or a radiologist who did a treatement and aside from going for a PSA, that was the end of it. They no more questioned the treatment, or who, or where, it was done than I'd question my dentist if he said I had a filling needing replacing as it was 30 years old and leaking on the edges.

As we age I think we worry less about the Grim Reaper, and become more philosophic about "our time."

And so, I suggest, there are a large number of older folk who have/had PCa, who are one the web, but use their web time to follow their photography group, email grandchildren, and/or plan a fishing trip with a friend in a different city. They'd say they have better things to do than get mired down in the details of their PCa.  Sometimes I wonder if they aren't right.   

Sheldon AKA Sleepless

Post Edited (Sleepless09) : 10/7/2010 8:01:07 PM (GMT-6)


DJBearGuy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 732
   Posted 10/7/2010 9:34 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey Paul, do you suppose there is something in the water where you work?

Couple guys I know from when we were all in the same part of a particular building, we've all been diagnosed and treated. But we're all over 50 too. I think I'm the youngest of the group.
Diagnosis at 53. PSA 2007 about 2; 2008 4.3
Biopsy Sept 2008: 6 of 12 cores pos; Gleason 4+3 = 7
CT & Bone scan neg
Da Vinci at City of Hope Dec 8, 2008
Rad prostatectomy & lymph node dissection
Cath out on 7th day, in on 8th day, out again 14th day after neg cystogram
Path: pT2c; lymph nodes neg; margins involv; 41 grams,
PSA 1/08, 4/09,7/09, 10/09, 11/09,2/10 <0.01, 10/10 0.1

BuiDoi
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 234
   Posted 10/8/2010 2:12 AM (GMT -6)   

<Finally, as John T so aptly points out, many men will die of natural causes never knowing they had PC, or even if they are diagnosed, may be able to live out their life without taking action.>

Then there is the quote  "80% of men DIE with PC, but not necessarily - from PC"

and then  "you are more likely to die by being chopped up by a train, than from the PC that you now have"

and - I would ask,  "how many of them die from more serious cancers that formed via mets' from the ignorred PC"

and then,   "How many deaths could be linked back to a failure to treat PC, and hidden from patients, because there was concern that there could be Law-Suit for failure to act 7 years earlier"...

It's a bucket of worms , and if we, the younger demographic group are thinking this way, then how do the non-computer folk know or think..

.


Nov 09 = First-PSA 5.3 @ 60yo - Asymptomatic - DRE-Non-Palpable
Jan-2010 = TRUS Bx DX - AdenoCar T1c - GS(3+3)=6 , 5 & 45% max., L-MidZone
May25-2010 = RRP- Nrv-Spare
Post Op. GS(3+4)=7, 1.1cm3, Pos Margins, EPE (focal) Lateral Left
Margin-Involvement (extensive) Posterior , Grade3 x 8mm
+8week PSA<0.01, ED-85%, Incont-30%
+16W PSA<0.01, ED-85%, Incont-5%
+17W First 'DRY' da

goodlife
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 2691
   Posted 10/8/2010 8:30 AM (GMT -6)   
The mets would still be adenocarcinoma, which is PC. It doesn't morph to lymphoma or some other type of cancer.

I would say that if you die from unr=treated PC, the pathologist isn't going to hide it from your family. He has no motivation to do so.
Goodlife
 
Age 58, PSA 4.47 Biopsy - 2/12 cores , Gleason 4 + 5 = 9
Da Vinci, Cleveland Clinic  4/14/09   Nerves spared, but carved up a little.
0/23 lymph nodes involved  pT3a NO MX
Catheter and 2 stints in ureters for 2 weeks .
Neg Margins, bladder neck negative
Living the Good Life, cancer free  6 week PSA  <.03
3 month PSA <.01 (different lab)
5 month PSA <.03 (undetectable)
6 Month PSA <.01
1 pad a day, no progress on ED.  Trimix injection
No pads, 1/1/10,  9 month PSA < .01
1 year psa (364 days) .01
15 month PSA <.01

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 10/8/2010 8:38 AM (GMT -6)   
"How many deaths could be linked back to a failure to treat PC, and hidden from patients, because there was concern that there could be Law-Suit for failure to act 7 years earlier"...

Sorry, cant even entertain a serious thought to a consperecy theory like this. What drs are hiding things from their patients? Where's the proof or a bonafide example? Might make a good episode for the tv show "House".

No disrespect intended.

david
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 ?
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, on Catheter #21, will be having Ileal Conduit Surgery in Sept.

Postop
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 385
   Posted 10/8/2010 9:50 AM (GMT -6)   
The thing I like about this forum is that it's self regulating. Everything is questioned, different viewpoints come out, and errors are revealed. By the end of the thread, there is enough information for the reader to make up their own mind.

I wish that political ads on TV went through the same process. Actually, I wish they would just go away and be replaced by something less mindless.

compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7205
   Posted 10/8/2010 12:10 PM (GMT -6)   
Postop:
 
You got it. I found when I first joined that I would see all kinds of extreme opinions but as time went on I would gain a lot of insight and be able to make some rational decisions.
 
Mel

BuiDoi
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 234
   Posted 10/8/2010 5:05 PM (GMT -6)   
.
No offence taken, or accusation made..
I have seen it in a general attitude, where the patient's age and general health will be considered.
You can almost hear the cogs turning..
He's 55, a productive life still left we need to do this and that....
He's 75, 5 years to the average longevity age, perhaps we wait and see and watch.
Perhaps he will die before he REALLY needs surgery.

At age 60, my first Uro suggested that there was no hurray,
but that anxiety would likely force me to do something within two years.

As it turns out, the cancer was far worse than expected and in 6 mths, it would likely have escaped the capsule.
If I got sore bones, in 6 mths time, would there be a statement "Sorry - We should have taken the PC back then"

I know a 70yo who is on watchful-waiting, and I suspect that his specialist was concerned for his heart, in the beginning.
Problem is that now - he's still here and the cancer must have grown and the UDoc is thinking - "perhaps , I really need to do something now-He's still here !"
You tell a 70yo, that he should be happy to make it to 80 and then die, perhaps needlessly.

I am not saying that Doc's are flippant with life, but they do take all things into account, and sometimes to their regret.
And - dare I say, it has much to do with Govt' policy and their attitudes to health funding... and the Insurance Companies...

<I would say that if you die from un-treated PC, the pathologist isn't going to hide it from your family. He has no motivation to do so.>

BUT - I suspect that it would be just specify -- "Cause of death - Liver Cancer"
I would love to be corrected and told that the Pathologist specifically indicates the exact form of cancer.
ie "Cause of death - AC of the Liver"

Who could ever be so silly to think that the system hides details , let alone facts, from us !
.
.

Post Edited (BuiDoi) : 10/8/2010 7:59:10 PM (GMT-6)


BillyMac
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 1858
   Posted 10/8/2010 5:14 PM (GMT -6)   
Gee I thought we were well past 1984

goodlife
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 2691
   Posted 10/8/2010 9:16 PM (GMT -6)   
I would look for a new doctor if I ever suspected for a moment that I wasn't getting high quality health care, regardless of my age.

On the other hand, I would most likely make different treatment choices if I was 70 with a bad heart, and had a G6 cancer with a moderate PSA. Pass the HT I would say before you carve me up, make me pee my pants, and take away any chance I had of sex before I meet my maker.
Goodlife
 
Age 58, PSA 4.47 Biopsy - 2/12 cores , Gleason 4 + 5 = 9
Da Vinci, Cleveland Clinic  4/14/09   Nerves spared, but carved up a little.
0/23 lymph nodes involved  pT3a NO MX
Catheter and 2 stints in ureters for 2 weeks .
Neg Margins, bladder neck negative
Living the Good Life, cancer free  6 week PSA  <.03
3 month PSA <.01 (different lab)
5 month PSA <.03 (undetectable)
6 Month PSA <.01
1 pad a day, no progress on ED.  Trimix injection
No pads, 1/1/10,  9 month PSA < .01
1 year psa (364 days) .01
15 month PSA <.01

142
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 6949
   Posted 10/8/2010 9:30 PM (GMT -6)   
Billy,
 
I've come to believe that 1984 is permanently just over the horizon. We are not quite there yet, but closer every day.

Postop
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 385
   Posted 10/8/2010 11:16 PM (GMT -6)   
1984? You mean

War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.

rob2
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 1131
   Posted 10/10/2010 5:18 PM (GMT -6)   
I was diagnosed at age 48. My PSA was over 2 for years before jumping up to nearly 4. I wish my doctor had come to this site and figured out what my PSA should have been. My uro told me it should have been 1 or under given my age. We live and learn.
 
Age 48 at diagnosis
occupation accountant
PSA increased from 2.6 to 3.5 in one year
biopsy march 2008 - cancer present gleason 7
Robotic Surgery May 9, 2008 - houston, tx
Pathology report -gleason 8, clear margins
22 month  PSA <.04
continent at 10 weeks (no pads!)
ED is still an issue
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