Blood in urine after using VED

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Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3742
   Posted 10/20/2010 7:36 AM (GMT -6)   
I'm at 15 months and have made a little progress on the incontinence front 100-150ml if I'm careful. So now I am focusing on the ED department which is still falling far short of design expectations. Trimix works. But, painless or not, my brain can't get around the fact that a needle in the corpus cavernosum is the prelude to romance.

This past week, after a lapse of (shamefully)months I started using the pump again. I'm not sure if it's like trying to feed a dead horse vitamin pills but at least I'm trying.
Here's the issue. Each morning after I use the pump the previous day, I get blood in my morning urine. Bright red, not old clotted stuff. I know it only takes a little bit to make the water look like a shark attack but still, it is dsconcerting to see it. (On the other hand, drips on the bowl rim show up very nicely and are easy to wipe off.)

Does anyone else pee blood after they use the pump? I am not in pain and I am at my normal level of incontinence. Is blood a good or bad sign? I can argue either way.

(Good- It is stretching blood vessels and forcing blood into tissues that have atrophied.)
(Bad- It is tearing blood vessels resulting in scarring.)

Am I the only guy in the world who has this issue? I have not seen it mentioned.
Thanks
Jeff (the leaking one)

clocknut
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 2680
   Posted 10/20/2010 8:19 AM (GMT -6)   
We you overdoing the vacuum? Blood in the urine never sounds like a good thing to me. I would think it could only come from somewhere up the line: the bladder or the kidneys, or even the old anastamosis. It doesn't seem likely that blood from the vessels in the penis itself could find its way into the urethra, but I'm no doctor and could be wrong about that. I hope the bleeding has stopped.
Age 65
Dx in June 2010.
PSA gradually rising for 3 years to 6.2
Biopsy confirmed cancer in 6 of 12 cores, all on left side
Gleason 7 (3 + 4)
Bone scan, CT scan, rib x-rays all negative.
DaVinci surgery late August at Advocate Condell, Libertyville IL
Negative margins; negative seminal vesicles
Smooth recovery; 18 holes of golf at 4 weeks.
Continence OK after 7 weeks. ED continues

Steve n Dallas
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 4849
   Posted 10/20/2010 8:25 AM (GMT -6)   

Using the pump to get an erection should be no different then the good old days when the site of a pretty woman/wife would give you a stiffy.

I'd seek medical treatment.....


Cajun Jeff
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4119
   Posted 10/20/2010 9:09 AM (GMT -6)   
Too much suction, back off. Have you been using some of your inventions again! :) LOL

Cajun Jeff
9/08 PSA 5.4 referred to Urologist
9/08 Biopsy: GS 3+4=7 1 positive core in 12 1% cancer core
10/08 Nerve-Sparing open radicalSurgery Path Report Downgrade 3+3=6 GS Stage pT2c margins clea
r3 month: PSA <0.1
19th month: PSA <0.1
Only issue at this time is ED

Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3742
   Posted 10/20/2010 9:41 AM (GMT -6)   
Jeff Corvette I am using the standard Augusta pump. No automotive suction, no shop vac, no vacuum accessory tester.

Clocknut: The thought of blood coming from up the line is a bit disconcerting. I am incontinent, so when I pump, I pee. You don't think...I am afraid to say this... I am pulling on my kidneys do you? Now that you mention it, the physics of hydraulics tells me it is possible. There is no blow off or bypass valve. It would really "piss me off" if I was doing damage to my already leaky sphincter. Maybe I should put a cork in it. :-)

Steve: The light bleeding stops when I do. I hate to go to a doc for that.

Jeff

So far, am I the only one with this issue? Do any other incontinent guys use a VED?


WAIT!!! I think I can measure it! If I pump a little, put on a condom, and then pump. Assuming the condom is sealed tight against my skin at the base, any leakage would appear in the condom. If it inflates, I am sucking my kidneys dry. If it fills as intended I am filling my pen*s as nature (sort of) intended.

compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7270
   Posted 10/20/2010 9:48 AM (GMT -6)   

I really think this is a question best answered by a medico.

 

(Especially when it appears that others do not have that problem)

 

Mel


Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3742
   Posted 10/20/2010 11:01 AM (GMT -6)   
Since I have not been inundated with "Yeah, I hate it when that happens." comments, I guess maybe there might be something to this. Rats! (He says, as he slowly puts down the VED and pulls up his pants.) I am going to keep an eye on it until my next Uro visit on 12/17. If anything changes, I will jump and do something about it.

I'd sure like to hear from someone who was in the same position.

Jeff (the leaking one)

Post Edited (Worried Guy) : 10/20/2010 8:27:34 PM (GMT-6)


Arch
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 192
   Posted 10/20/2010 4:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Jeff,
 
I used the pump for a couple of months and never had this happen. It also never sucked urine out,  I'd totally empty my bladder prior to use.
age 56
PSA 5.5
Biopsy, both lobes involved
Gleason 3/4=7
open RP May 18, 2010
Pathology: 15% involved, lymph nodes and v. d. clear, margins clear
June 3-10 10-12 pads/day
2 months 8 pads/day
Aug 1, 2010 5-6 pads/day
Aug 20, 2010 3-5 pads per day
Aug 16, 3 month PSA: undetectable
ED 95% with viagara
Sept 22, 2 pads a day
Oct 12, PSA 0.03
ED, 100% with viagara, just doeable without

NEIrish
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 245
   Posted 10/20/2010 5:05 PM (GMT -6)   
Why not see the Uro sooner than 12/17? There is too much to worry about without adding one more thing to your list. Call and let the office know and they'll get you in sooner if it's not typical.

My brother has always been a long distance runner. I can remember his first marathon when he ended up leaving us, his cheering section, without notice. He'd noticed blood in his urine and had gone to an ER right after the race. Turns out the enormous amount of pavement pounding his body had gone through running 26 miles at 6+ minute miles had caused a bleed out common to runners. Maybe you're really stressing something similar with your pump...?
Husband 60yrs., no symptms: PSA 10/04 2.73, 12/06 3.64, 5/09 3.9, 10/09 4.6, 1/10 5.0w/ free PSA 24
6 core biop 4/1/10 path rept: rt mid: adnocarc. G=3+3, 5% of core; R apx v. susp. minute ca, R base bnign w/ mod. atrophy, L side atrphy only; 2nd opnion JH confrmd
MRI - 15mm nodule
BiLatRP surg 7/6/10, path: T2c, nodes, sem.ves, extra caps. neg., adenoc both sides G=3+3 cntinent, Viagr-8/27 ED

Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3742
   Posted 10/20/2010 9:41 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the ideas.

Here's a little more data. (After all this time on the site you all know me well enough to know I had to do an experiment.)
I waited until my pee was clear and then used the pump again. I then peed about once per hour checking the color. One hour: normal, 2 hours: normal, 3 hours: a tinge of blood. 4 hours: more blood urine is reddish. 5: same. 6 hours: going back to normal 7 hours: now. So the peak blood shows up 4-5 hours after I use it.
That is why I notice the blood in the morning. I had been using the pump an hour before bed and did not get up to pee!

I will check this one more time - then call the doc. I am not in pain and everything is working exactly in the same poor fashion as it has been for the past 4 months.

Arch- I try to empty my bladder beforehand but I still get urine when I pump. In fact, I will leak even with a Trimix powered erection.

Jeff

Post Edited (Worried Guy) : 10/20/2010 8:48:10 PM (GMT-6)


kbota
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 487
   Posted 10/20/2010 10:35 PM (GMT -6)   
Jeff, I'm sure there's something I'm missing here, but it seems to me that the bleeding has to be coming from the bladder south. I would think that any appreciable vacuum applied to this region would only serve to collapse the ureter. Hold it....Could the vacuum be partially collapsing the bladder, and placing torsion on the ureter?

I'm trying to put my fluid hydraulics engineer cap back on for a bit....said cap is a little moldy from non use.

Since you only have bleeding AFTER using the pump, it's obvious that the pump vacuum is placing a torsion on some fleshy part that doesn't like it. Question is....which part.

After a prostatectomy, you only have the kidneys, ureter, bladder, urethra, and penis.

Which of those parts is most likely to be affected by a vacuum?

Based on your description, it would seem that the bleeding is coming from either the bladder, ureter, or kidneys. The ureter is a very small tube which leaves it less likely to be collapsed by a vacuum. (so there goes my first thought) The bladder has a much larger surface area, so it would seem most likely to be affected. I'm not sure about the kidneys, but my gut reaction is that they would not likely be the source. The ureter is much longer than the urethra, which would allow for a higher static drop in vacuum, assuming there would be some flow involved.

My best guess is bladder....but what do I know? A docter I'm not. I don't even make a good DumbA** engineer.

k
Age 57 at Dx
5/09 PSA 2.26
6/2010 PSA 3.07 FPSA 18% DRE +
6/2010 Bipsy, 7 of 12+, >60%, 4+5=9
7/21/2010 - RRP
Nodes neg,Ves neg
tumor in capsule, still 4+5=9
pni extensive
8/5, 2010 cath out
9/3, 2010 PSA - 0.04 whew!
9/3/2010, I'm 99% continent - only stress incontinence
10/14/10, PSA still 0.04, and lupron #1, 99.9% continent
Total ED, 3 caverject failed, pump sux

Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3742
   Posted 10/21/2010 12:42 AM (GMT -6)   
Kbota,
That's the kind of thinking I like - Engineering. I think the 4 to 5 hours delay must be a clue. Lets work our way up the tubing shall we? If it was a burst blood vessel in the penis, I'd expect to see the blood immediately upon urinating. Nope. It is not there. If it was in the bladder I'd expect to see the effect after the second empty. Nope it's not there either.
Could it be above the bladder? That's impossible - or is it?
Before I pump, I empty my bladder. But when I start pumping, urine always comes out. Am I sucking it from a kidney? That would be incredible if true.
I can't believe I am the only guy on this site to have this issue.

Thanks for running through the hydraulics with me.

Jeff Sqrt(deltaP)

Steve n Dallas
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 4849
   Posted 10/21/2010 4:39 AM (GMT -6)   
Patient to Doc: "Hey Doc - it hurts when I do that!"
 
Doc to Patient: "Well - stop doing that."
 
I have/had blood in my urine that is being caused by one of the surgical staples that my body is rejecting. Its poking inside my bladder and has a calcium build up on it. I get to get it surgically removed next week....Maybe you too have one of these.
 
Can't say that I would continue to do something that causes UNnormal bleeding nono
 
Then again - maybe you'll build up some scar tissue and stop the flow of urine all together.

RCS
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 1268
   Posted 10/21/2010 6:21 AM (GMT -6)   
Lets see ... stick a needle in me or pump until I bleed. I guess I would go with the needle.

I agree with Steve n Dallas ... if you are bleeding you should seriously consider not pumping and see a doctor.
 
Maybe your ED and incontinence are related ... like a staple through the sphincter?

Post Edited (RCS) : 10/21/2010 5:26:02 AM (GMT-6)


Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3742
   Posted 10/21/2010 7:13 AM (GMT -6)   
RCS, Steve,

I was hoping the pump would keep blood flowing and prevent tissue atrophy. I am not using it for "activity".
I agree there might be a chance there's a staple someplace. I had a cystoscopy a couple of months ago and the only abnormality the Uro saw was a short sphincter.

Mentally, giving up on the pump feels like giving up on ever having a "normal" erection again even with pills. I'm at 15 months and just don't want to give up. I'm still 27 years old, right?

(If any women ever doubted it, there's ^ your proof that guys think with the wrong head.)

Jeff

compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7270
   Posted 10/21/2010 8:08 AM (GMT -6)   
Stop the pu,p; see a doctor (KISS)
 
Mel

NEIrish
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 245
   Posted 10/21/2010 9:55 AM (GMT -6)   
Length of time when visible blood shows up means nothing. It's only the amount of time it takes for the blood to build up enough to show up to the naked eye. Women who have UTI's (urinary tract infections) know that they can detect blood as well as bacteria in the labs, even though you may not see the blood in the sample. You may have a break somewhere in your u-system and still not have it show up right away...
Husband 60yrs., no symptms: PSA 10/04 2.73, 12/06 3.64, 5/09 3.9, 10/09 4.6, 1/10 5.0w/ free PSA 24
6 core biop 4/1/10 path rept: rt mid: adnocarc. G=3+3, 5% of core; R apx v. susp. minute ca, R base bnign w/ mod. atrophy, L side atrphy only; 2nd opnion JH confrmd
MRI - 15mm nodule
BiLatRP surg 7/6/10, path: T2c, nodes, sem.ves, extra caps. neg., adenoc both sides G=3+3 cntinent, Viagr-8/27 ED
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