Replace current PSA testing with....trained dogs

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Casey59
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Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3172
   Posted 10/27/2010 2:48 PM (GMT -6)   
I saw this posted on another site.  Here's the PubMed link:  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20970246
 
The report's Conclusion: "This study shows that dogs can be trained to detect PCa by smelling urine with a significant success rate. It suggests that PCa gives an odor signature to urine. Identification of the VOCs involved could lead to a potentially useful screening tool for PCa."
 
I'm just going to copy/paste the rest of the abstract...it's incredible:

OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the efficacy of prostate cancer (PCa) detection by trained dogs on human urine samples.

DESIGN, SETTING, AND PARTICIPANTS: A Belgian Malinois shepherd was trained by the clicker training method (operant conditioning) to scent and recognize urine of people having PCa. All urine samples were frozen for preservation and heated to the same temperature for all tests. After a learning phase and a training period of 24 mo, the dog's ability to discriminate PCa and control urine was tested in a double-blind procedure. Urine was obtained from 66 patients referred to a urologist for elevated prostate-specific antigen or abnormal digital rectal examination. All patients underwent prostate biopsy and two groups were considered: 33 patients with cancer and 33 controls presenting negative biopsies.

MEASUREMENTS: During each "run," the dog was asked to signal a cancer urine among six samples containing only one cancer urine and five randomly selected controls. Sensitivity and specificity of the test were assessed.

RESULTS AND LIMITATIONS: The dog completed all the runs and correctly designated the cancer samples in 30 of 33 cases. Of the three cases wrongly classified as cancer, one patient was rebiopsied and a PCa was diagnosed. The sensitivity and specificity were both 91%.

 

Photo of the new associate at your Urologist's office: 

VIEW IMAGE

Post Edited (Casey59) : 10/27/2010 1:57:18 PM (GMT-6)


goodlife
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 2692
   Posted 10/27/2010 3:52 PM (GMT -6)   
That would be great ! I could test myself 3 or 4 times a day, if I can teach my Chihauha to smell PSA. I wonder if I could get her to bark out the ng/ml ?

Really is incredible from a screening perspective. May ccause my uro to change his office layout a little.
Goodlife
 
Age 58, PSA 4.47 Biopsy - 2/12 cores , Gleason 4 + 5 = 9
Da Vinci, Cleveland Clinic  4/14/09   Nerves spared, but carved up a little.
0/23 lymph nodes involved  pT3a NO MX
Catheter and 2 stints in ureters for 2 weeks .
Neg Margins, bladder neck negative
Living the Good Life, cancer free  6 week PSA  <.03
3 month PSA <.01 (different lab)
5 month PSA <.03 (undetectable)
6 Month PSA <.01
1 pad a day, no progress on ED.  Trimix injection
No pads, 1/1/10,  9 month PSA < .01
1 year psa (364 days) .01
15 month PSA <.01

geezer99
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 10/27/2010 4:02 PM (GMT -6)   
I asked my dog about this and he said; "Shut up and throw the ball."
Perhaps he is not a candidate for this training.

spottydog10
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 348
   Posted 10/27/2010 5:13 PM (GMT -6)   
I was wondering why my dog was
wearing a white coat and a stethoscope this morning...
And sniffing my crotch.
Mike

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 10/27/2010 5:23 PM (GMT -6)   
dogs have been used for a while now, sniffing out a variety of cancers. not sure how useful it would be across the board. and in nursing homes, cats have had this knack of knowing which patients were going to die next, kind of spooky
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 Not taking it
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/23/10

Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 10/27/2010 6:14 PM (GMT -6)   
When dogs start doing the DRE's, I'm out of there.

This is not new news. I saw it on the InfoLink back in July. Some folks were pretty mad at the study money being wasted. I tend to side with them.

Tony
Disease:
Advanced Prostate Cancer at age 44 (I am 48 now)
pT3b,N0,Mx (original PSA was 19.8) EPE, PM, SVI. Gleason 4+3=7

Treatments:
RALP ~ 2/17/2007 at the City of Hope near Los Angeles.
Adjuvant Radiation Therapy ~ IMRT Completed 8/07
Adjuvant Hormone Therapy ~ 28 months on Casodex and Lupron.

Status:
"I beat up this disease and took its lunch money! I am in remission."
I am currently not being treated, but I do have regular oncology visits.
I am the president of an UsTOO chapter in Las Vegas

Blog : www.caringbridge.org/visit/tonycrispino

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 10/27/2010 6:17 PM (GMT -6)   
my feelings too, tony. interesting, but no practical value in my opinion. rather see that kind of money spent in more tangible ways for all those that suffer with PC
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 Not taking it
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/23/10

Casey59
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3172
   Posted 10/27/2010 9:33 PM (GMT -6)   
TC-LasVegas said...
When dogs start doing the DRE's, I'm out of there.

This is not new news. I saw it on the InfoLink back in July. Some folks were pretty mad at the study money being wasted. I tend to side with them.

Tony
Ehww...
 
I hadn't seen this before, but nonetheless, hopefully most folks realize that pee-sniffing dogs isn't the end-point objective.  If the researchers can isolate and identify the VOCs, then the process can be automated...then we are really on to something!  Research progresses one step at a time...but I wish it would move in dog years.

proscapt
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 644
   Posted 10/28/2010 1:14 AM (GMT -6)   
Dogs are *highly* experienced in pee sniffing, don't forget. This is their #1 favorite pastime, or maybe it's a tie with eating, sleeping, and butt sniffing.

Seriously though, I've read that dogs were also highly effective in detecting lung cancer by sniffing the breath of a group of cancer patients and controls.

If dogs could be patented, all this would be widely available. But there's no money in it, so these observations get suppressed until someone can invent a gizmo that will sniff exactly what the dogs pick up, at $1500 for a five minute test.

English Alf
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 2217
   Posted 10/28/2010 2:04 AM (GMT -6)   
Yeah I Know it sounds like a joke or a waste of time, but it is true that dogs can detect some cancers, (They can smell something on people's breath or in their pee and also detect skin cancers.)

And it does boil down to the fact that it looks like people with cancers must produce some marker chemical in their excretions (breath, sweat, pee etc) Dogs can spot this in many cases and there are new tests in the pipe line whioch will effectively be detecting these chemicals without the dogs.
eg the new urine test for PCa see this report from October 2010:
www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE69C6DW20101014

(Don't go out for a walk with my neighbour and her dog much now as by the time the dog and I have peed behind all the trees in the wood she's a bit fed up)

Alf

Steve n Dallas
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 4848
   Posted 10/28/2010 5:37 AM (GMT -6)   
Sixty Minutes has done show on cancer smelling dogs...Pretty interesting deal. Untrained dogs have been known to save people lives by smelling cancers that the dog owner didn't know they have..
 
My mean little kitty on the other hand draws blood from me all the time...which in turn causes all sorts of adverse reactions from me scool

goodlife
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 2692
   Posted 10/28/2010 8:24 AM (GMT -6)   
Casey,

I can't help it. This just tickles my funny bone.

You said that it may lead to an automated process.

I am visualizing a machine like they have in drug stores and grocery stores for blood pressure. Sign on it says, "Insert penis here for instant prostate check "
Goodlife
 
Age 58, PSA 4.47 Biopsy - 2/12 cores , Gleason 4 + 5 = 9
Da Vinci, Cleveland Clinic  4/14/09   Nerves spared, but carved up a little.
0/23 lymph nodes involved  pT3a NO MX
Catheter and 2 stints in ureters for 2 weeks .
Neg Margins, bladder neck negative
Living the Good Life, cancer free  6 week PSA  <.03
3 month PSA <.01 (different lab)
5 month PSA <.03 (undetectable)
6 Month PSA <.01
1 pad a day, no progress on ED.  Trimix injection
No pads, 1/1/10,  9 month PSA < .01
1 year psa (364 days) .01
15 month PSA <.01

Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3739
   Posted 10/28/2010 8:52 AM (GMT -6)   
You guys have me in stitches.
Now at your local CVS Pharmacy. The instructions say:

1) Insert Penis into cuff
2) Allow cuff to inflate
3) Wait for reading to display

Only 25 readings per person please!

Actually, this study does prove a point. It shows there are some volatile organic compounds in the urine that might be used for another type of test instead of the blood test we all know and love.

The future test dip stick might look like the gene mapping cards developed for the Human Genome project. However it would be modified to select for 6 -10 proteins that are specific to PSA. Pee in a cup, dip the card and if it turns pink - you're pregnant.

Jeff

Post Edited (Worried Guy) : 10/28/2010 8:19:15 AM (GMT-6)


Casey59
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3172
   Posted 10/28/2010 9:06 AM (GMT -6)   
gimme the take-home kit...

Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 10/28/2010 10:27 AM (GMT -6)   
The take home kit can bring happiness and joy. But when you go outside in the back yard watch your step. But just having to feed and clean up after your prostate exam? Just sounds wrong.

Tony
Disease:
Advanced Prostate Cancer at age 44 (I am 48 now)
pT3b,N0,Mx (original PSA was 19.8) EPE, PM, SVI. Gleason 4+3=7

Treatments:
RALP ~ 2/17/2007 at the City of Hope near Los Angeles.
Adjuvant Radiation Therapy ~ IMRT Completed 8/07
Adjuvant Hormone Therapy ~ 28 months on Casodex and Lupron.

Status:
"I beat up this disease and took its lunch money! I am in remission."
I am currently not being treated, but I do have regular oncology visits.
I am the president of an UsTOO chapter in Las Vegas

Blog : www.caringbridge.org/visit/tonycrispino

John T
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 4268
   Posted 10/28/2010 1:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Dogs have been picking up molecules of explosives and drugs for many years. It's not far fetched that they can be trained to pick up molecules of cancer. They are more effective and much cheaper than detection devices designed for the same purposes.
JT
65 years old, rising psa for 10 years from 4 to 40; 12 biopsies and MRIS all negative. Oct 2009 DXed with G6 <5%. Color Doppler biopsy found 2.5 cm G4+3. Combidex clear. Seeds and IMRT, no side affects and psa .1 at 1.5 years.

Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 10/28/2010 4:55 PM (GMT -6)   
As I said to Mike at the InfoLink, we dogs that can decipher between indolent and aggressive disease. We already have a an inexpensive way of detecting the presence of prostate cancer at the molecular level. For bomb sniffing it makes sense to use a dog. Same with drug sniffing and everything else we use the animals keen sense of smell. I have a friend who is a K9 cop that tells me that he was into his dog for nearly 25 grand (paid by the force) so cheap and easy?

Tony
Disease:
Advanced Prostate Cancer at age 44 (I am 48 now)
pT3b,N0,Mx (original PSA was 19.8) EPE, PM, SVI. Gleason 4+3=7

Treatments:
RALP ~ 2/17/2007 at the City of Hope near Los Angeles.
Adjuvant Radiation Therapy ~ IMRT Completed 8/07
Adjuvant Hormone Therapy ~ 28 months on Casodex and Lupron.

Status:
"I beat up this disease and took its lunch money! I am in remission."
I am currently not being treated, but I do have regular oncology visits.
I am the president of an UsTOO chapter in Las Vegas

Blog : www.caringbridge.org/visit/tonycrispino

Red Nighthawk
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 289
   Posted 11/3/2010 8:22 AM (GMT -6)   
Perhaps my 'crotch dog' was trying to tell me something a few years ago.
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