Post Op Week #9: Ongoing urge to Urinate Prevents Sleeping; Dr. suggesting Detrol; Any information?

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jabejochke
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 11/4/2010 1:32 PM (GMT -6)   
Robotic surgery on September 3, 2010.
 
Since week #3, I have experienced the urge to urinate during day and at night.  Over the weeks, it has become less intense and over smaller periods of time.  However, at night time, I last no more than 45 minutes (sometimes less than 15) when I have to get up to urinate.  Some nights that's O.K. because I fall right back to sleep after urinating.  Other nights, I get little sleep; I have to get up what seems like all the time.  I currently take no medication to help me sleep.
 
Spoke to doctor in week #5 about the problem; he indicated that there was a medication (Detrol) that could help, but he would rather let my body solve the problem -- so he wanted to wait for a few more weeks.  It's now week #9 and the issue during the day has greatly decreased; but night times are about the same as in week #5.
 
Any experience with Detrol or some other treatment that has helped sleeping would be appreciated.
 
Thanks for reading,
 
Jack

dogbot
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 147
   Posted 11/4/2010 1:49 PM (GMT -6)   
I remember I had a short period where I needed a pee nearly every hour during the night. This happened about 2 months out from surgery, and we happened to be on holiday at the time which was a knockback. I put this down to the healing process and only lasted about 2 weeks and then gradually eased and now nearly 18 months out I am going through the night without getting up, which is where I was before the op.
 
As this cleared by itself I did query it with the doctors. I think that over the next few weeks you will experience an improvement.
 
All the best from England.

SubicSquid
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 252
   Posted 11/4/2010 2:04 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm one year out from open surgery and 3 months out of SRT. SRT brought on urge to urinate. I go every 90 minutes at night. I can almost set a clock by the times that I wake up. Doctor started me on Detrol a few weeks ago. So far, there has been no improvement at all. The literature on this stuff says to stay with it - that it might take several months to start being effective. I will take it until January when I have a follow up with rad oncologist. Hopefully by then there will be some improvement. The only side effect from the Detrol I have experienced is waking up with a dry throat. Squid.
*Age 63, PSA July 2009 .66; Biopsy: 2 of 12 cores positive, Gleason 3 + 5
*open Surgery 10/22/09
*Post Surgery Biopsy Gleason 4 + 3; 2 positive margins
*03/11/10 - Bladder neck surgery for stricture
*PSA - 30 day/.07, 90 day/<.1, 180 day/.21
*07/27/10 - IGRT done - 39 zaps, 70 gys
*10/07/10 - 90 day post IGRT PSA <.1.

jabejochke
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 11/5/2010 2:16 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for your notes.

I started on Detrol today. I plan take it until my first post-surgery visit scheduled for 12/27/2010. Hopefully Detrol will have had a positive effect by then.

Jack

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25394
   Posted 11/5/2010 2:31 PM (GMT -6)   
sorry to hear that, squid, hope you get some relief soon, drink plenty of water
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 Not taking it
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/23/10

tallguy
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 419
   Posted 11/7/2010 8:21 PM (GMT -6)   
I was a up to pee guy at night every 1-2 hours after RP. I tried Imiprimine and Detrol. Mainly to help the incontinence. Neither one really helped and I has some mild side effects so the Uro said to just stop. Even though dry at night I woke up even with the slightest urge and if I did not get up to pee I could not go back to sleep. All during my 2 year journey this continued.
Even now with my AUS I am up 2-3 times each night but go right back to sleep. I had a rather large prostate 70 gm. I suspect my bladder shrunk and not sure it has ever enlarged. I rarely pee more that 150 ml at a time. Everything else is normal. How much is habit I don't know.
I have a cocktail each night and sometime I think that aggrevates the situation. As they say caffine and alcohol are not friends of bladder urge.
If I take one Advil PM it really helps sleep and sometimes I can get by with only getting up once. I think you can take Advil PM with any of the meds but always check with your Uro. Give Advil PM or one of the sleep meds that contain the same active ingredient. It's not habit forming but I can't remember the name but it's the same in Advil as in most of the common OTC sleep meds.
In my signature you will see links to my journey if you want to read something to put you to sleep. Also my email is in my profil if you want to talk I will be glad to share my experience.
66 year old male
PSA jumped 3 to 8 Jan 2008
pt2b NO Mx with a Gleason score 3+3=6.
DaVinci RP, 7/23/08. Tumor type: Acinar
size 5.5 cm x 5.7 cm weight: 77 gm.
Incontinence & ED. Dry nights , no control during day.
FUDS and cystourethroscopy testing 10/09.
24 hr pad wt. 219gm. AUA sympton index 13/35=moderate
Virtue sling surgery 2/3/10 NYU med center
Appeared to help but gradually returned to pre surgery condition.
Back to 3-4 pads/day.
Latest PSA 4/1/10 negative.
AMS 800 artificial urinary sphincter implanted 7/8/10 at U of MI.
AMS 800 activated 8/25/10 Dry for first time in 2 years.
Links to my journey posts:
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=1847812
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=1710681

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25394
   Posted 11/7/2010 8:29 PM (GMT -6)   
tallguy,

the "sleeping" part of Advil PM and similar drugs is the active ingredient in Benedryl, the allergy med. You can buy the Equate Generic at Wal-mart, for example, its like $4-5 for 100 tablets. I talked to several pharmesist years ago, and they said you can safely take up to 2 tablets per night for sleep, if needed, and its non habit forming, and that you can take it for years with no concern. Of course, like all OTC drugs, it would pay to check with one dr, to make sure there's no negative interaction between that and any prescription meds one might be on.

david
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 Not taking it
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/23/10

tallguy
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 419
   Posted 11/7/2010 8:41 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks David, I was too lazy to go to my med cabinet and find the Benadryl. I did try the generic version for a while but for some reason the Advil PM seemed to work better.....probly psycho on my part. Think I will try it again. I hate taking amy pills on a regular basis....just in my head.
Of course if I would give up my one cocktail each night that would help too.....but that would be bad for my mental health.

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25394
   Posted 11/7/2010 8:50 PM (GMT -6)   
my wife has been using the generic benadryls for years, to help her sleep, and has never had a problem. its a good solution if you dont need the extra advil or tylenol that comes with the PM OTC meds. She says, the generic version works as well as the real thing.
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 Not taking it
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/23/10

tallguy
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 419
   Posted 11/8/2010 10:03 AM (GMT -6)   
I did not realize that Benadryl was a problem with incontinence. Can you point me to any literature or messages on teh forum that give further detail. Is it the sleep ingredient or the allergy ingredient?

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25394
   Posted 11/8/2010 10:09 AM (GMT -6)   
I have never heard of that with Benadryl, can you offer any kind of evidence of that statement?
 
Actually, this piece of an article would indicate the complete opposite:
 

Incontinence arising from an underlying condition such as diabetic neuropathycan sometimes be helped by treating the underlying condition. When that doesnot work, or no underlying condition can be discovered, medication may be used, such as loperamide (Imodium), anticholinergics (i.e., propantheline, or Pro-Banthine) and antispasmodics (i.e., oxybutynin, or Ditropan). Otherover-the-counter medications such as pseudoephedrine (i.e., Actifed,Benadryl, Dimetapp) and phenylpropanolamine (i.e., Dexatrim, Acutrim) may beprescribed to tighten the urethral sphincter.



Read more: Incontinence, Information about Incontinence http://www.faqs.org/health/topics/69/Incontinence.html#ixzz14hiESxpY

Post Edited (Purgatory) : 11/8/2010 8:13:20 AM (GMT-7)


jabejochke
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 12/3/2010 10:08 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi All,

Thanks for all the information. I have been on Detrol for 4 weeks now. Within the first week, my constant need to "pee" which was preventing any sleep was greatly reduced. I now get up about 3 times during the night. -- and more importantly I have been able to sleep for 2-3 hours at a stretch. Surgeon has given me a three month prescription for the Detrol - whether I'll need it beyond that or not, I don't know yet.

After three months from surgery, I still need pad - still spurt when I cough or sneeze unexpectedly - when I know it's coming I generally go down into a crouch - and then I can handle the sneeze or the cough. A little humorous situation occurred today during an annual physical with my primary care doctor. He asked me to drop my shorts and cough so he could check for hernia - needless to say we both forgot my current situation and my strong coughs sent a few spurts on him and the floor.

I also have been using Advil PM since after starting the Detrol and it has helped enable those 2-3 hour stretches of sleep.

Again thanks for the help,

Jack

SubicSquid
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 252
   Posted 12/4/2010 2:35 PM (GMT -6)   
I have been using Detrol for over a month now.  I was getting up to pee about every 2 hours.  At first, the Detrol did not seem to have any effect.  But, this past week, I have only been getting up once during the night.  Reading the info on Detrol, it basically says to stick with it for several months if no results at first.  Maybe the info is correct.  I can live with only one trip a night to the bathroom.  Squid.
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