Relative size of Fingers may be clue to risk of PCa !!!!!!!!!

A clue to risk of PCa - How long are your fingers?
6
Index Finger longer than Ring Finger - 14.3%
3
Index Finger and Ring Finger same length - 7.1%
33
Ring Finger longer than Index Finger - 78.6%

 
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English Alf
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Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 2215
   Posted 12/1/2010 3:26 AM (GMT -6)   
The BBC news today is reporting on a new study linking finger size to the risk of prostate cancer. Yes I'm serious! And so is the study.
The news item is at:www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-11880415
But I'll quote it here too:

"The length of a man's fingers can provide clues to his risk of prostate cancer, according to new research.
A British Journal of Cancer study found men whose index finger was longer than their ring finger were significantly less likely to develop the disease.
Researchers made the discovery after comparing the hands of 1,500 prostate cancer patients with 3,000 healthy men.
The length of the fingers is fixed before birth and is thought to relate to sex hormone levels in the womb.
Being exposed to less testosterone before birth results in a longer index finger and may protect against prostate cancer later in life, say researchers at the University of Warwick and the Institute of Cancer Research.
One of the report authors, Professor Ros Eeles, said more studies would be needed, but if these confirmed the findings it could be used a simple test for prostate cancer risk.
She said: "This exciting finding means that finger pattern could potentially be used to select at-risk men for ongoing screening, perhaps in combination with other factors such as family history or genetic testing."
The study was funded by the charities Prostate Action and Cancer Research UK.
Emma Halls, chief executive of Prostate Action, said: "This research brings us another step closer to helping determine risk factors for prostate cancer, which is possibly the biggest issue in current thinking about preventing and treating the disease.
"However, we are still a long way from reducing the number of men who die of prostate cancer every year and need more research and education in all areas to achieve this."
Dr Helen Rippon, head of research at The prostate Cancer Charity, said the research added to growing evidence that the balance of hormones we are exposed to before birth influences our health for the rest of our lives. But she said men with shorter index fingers should not be "unduly worried". "They share this trait with more than half of all men and it does not mean they will definitely develop prostate cancer in later life."
"

I thus thought it might be interesting to take a poll (my ring fingers are both longer)

Alf
Born Jun ‘60
Apr 09 PSA 8.6
DRE neg
Biop 2 of 12 pos
Gleason 3+3
29 Jul 09 DaVinci AVL-NKI Amsterdam
6 Aug 09 Cath out
PostOp Gleason 3+4 Bladder neck & Left SVI -T3b
No perin’l No vasc invasion Clear margins
Dry at night
21 Sep 09 No pads daytime
17 Nov 09 PSA 0.1
17 Mar 10 PSA 0.4 sent to RT
13 Apr 10 CT
28 Apr 10 start RT 66Gy
11 Jun 10 end RT
Tired
BMs weird
14 Sep 10 PSA <0.1
Erections OK

Post Edited (English Alf) : 12/1/2010 6:48:43 AM (GMT-7)


Piano
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 847
   Posted 12/1/2010 4:36 AM (GMT -6)   
Ring finger longer on both hands. Gleason 8.

Steve n Dallas
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 4829
   Posted 12/1/2010 4:41 AM (GMT -6)   
EDIT: (cause I'm an idiot)
 
Ring Finger longer than Index Finger - Gleason 6

Post Edited (Steve n Dallas) : 12/1/2010 11:56:43 AM (GMT-7)


BillyMac
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 1858
   Posted 12/1/2010 5:39 AM (GMT -6)   
Ring finger longer by almost 1/2 inch -------------- Gleason7/8

TTaylor
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2010
Total Posts : 102
   Posted 12/1/2010 5:55 AM (GMT -6)   
Ring finger longer on both hands. Gleason 8

Jerry L.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3056
   Posted 12/1/2010 7:32 AM (GMT -6)   
It depends. Bringing fingers together, ring finger is longer (index is pointed in). But, if you place index of one hand over ring of the other, they are the same length. Gleason 9
Nov. 2009 Dx at Age 44
Dec. 2009 DaVinci Robotic Surgery
Jan. 2010 T3b, Gleason 9
Feb. 2010 Adjuvant Radiation

PSA History:
-----------------
Nov. 2009 4.30
Feb. 2010 <.05
May 2010 <.05
Aug. 2010 <.05
Nov. 2010 <.05

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 12/1/2010 7:44 AM (GMT -6)   
index finger longer on both hands, gleason 7
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 Not taking it
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/23/10

Jerry L.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3056
   Posted 12/1/2010 7:54 AM (GMT -6)   
Those that have long ring fingers might be wealthier as well.  Who knew?  Size does matter:
 
 
Also ---- if you have a ring on that finger, you probably aren't rich. 

Post Edited (Jerry L.) : 12/1/2010 9:52:46 AM (GMT-7)


60Michael
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 2222
   Posted 12/1/2010 8:05 AM (GMT -6)   
Longer ring finger, but Jerry is right as there was a study that said men with longer ring fingers often make more money. Might have something to do with T-Level. Would be interesting to see what the correlation is with family history as well. So longer ring finger but no family history.
Michael

clocknut
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 2667
   Posted 12/1/2010 9:02 AM (GMT -6)   
I'm never sure how to answer this question.  If I look at the back of my right hand, the ring finger is clearly longer.  But if I look at the palm side, the index finger is slightly longer.  It must depend on how the tendons are stretched in the two positions.  Does this happen to anyone else?

Julietinthewoods
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 309
   Posted 12/1/2010 9:10 AM (GMT -6)   
Carter (husband): Ring finger longer. Gleason 7. Not wealthy. :)

Juliet

knotreel
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2006
Total Posts : 654
   Posted 12/1/2010 9:25 AM (GMT -6)   
Ok after completing my vote, with ring figure longer is seems that my group is 70%. vs 30% for longer index. It begs the question, how does this stack up with the overall population? before this I thought, or assumed, that everybodys hand has like mine.
06-08 1st biopsy neg psa 4
10-09 psa 5.5 2nd biopsy 1/12 pos. 10%, G(4+3) age 65
12-15-09 RRP Tulane NOLA Dr Lee
Path, 1%, clr marg, no EPE, no SVI, nodes cl, G(4+3)
100% incontinent after 3 mo. PT
ED, pre-op severe, post op total
10/10 Dr Boone, Baylor recomended AUS
AUS and IPP scheduled 1/11/11
post op psa's 0.04,<0.1,<0.1

F8
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3800
   Posted 12/1/2010 9:26 AM (GMT -6)   
>I'm never sure how to answer this question.  If I look at the back of my right hand, the ring finger is clearly longer.  But if I look at the palm side, the index finger is slightly longer.  It must depend on how the tendons are stretched in the two positions.  Does this happen to anyone else? <
 
me too.  in fact all three answers are correct depending on the viewing angle.  
 
ed
 
 

age: 55
PSA on 12/09: 6.8
no symptoms, no prostate enlargement
12/12 cores positive....gleason 3+4 = 7
HT, BT and IGRT
received 3rd and last lupron shot 9/14/10

Putt
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 154
   Posted 12/1/2010 10:25 AM (GMT -6)   
Some of these studies must originate late at night in a local pub. Reminds me of the rumor that if a male has long fingers, he is well endowed elsewhere. Looking at my hand, darn the luck, my short ring finger is longer than my index. I guess that confirms I have PC and as far as the other item, it does not work very well anymore.
PSA at Dx 105 at age 68, 4/04. ADT (Lupron only), RRP, 5/04. Gleason 4+5=9, Staged pT3bc NO MO, 3D rad, 40 treatments, 8/04. PSA 1/05 <0.01. ADT till 7/07. PSA 0.03 12/08, 0.07 4/09, 0.13 8/09, 0.19 12/09, 0.30 4/10, 8/10 0.37. Will start ADT3 after PSA reaches 1.2.

clocknut
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 2667
   Posted 12/1/2010 11:04 AM (GMT -6)   
If we're going to start measuring body parts, I wish we had started prior to surgery!

dogbot
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 147
   Posted 12/1/2010 11:11 AM (GMT -6)   
I watched the interview on BBC News. Well, my index finger is longer on both hands so I should not be a prostate cancer sufferer and I should be rich. No on both counts.
I think these surveys should be treated with suspicion to say the least.
It`s much like government stastitics which are manipulated to show the most favourable results for the politicians.
 
All the best from England.

Sancarlos
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 242
   Posted 12/1/2010 11:24 AM (GMT -6)   
The BBC news does not fit me. My index finger on both hands is much longer than my ring finger and I am G9.

Sancarlos

Willie B
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 155
   Posted 12/1/2010 11:26 AM (GMT -6)   
The distance between your wrist and elbow are the same as the size of your feet.

That information can save a lot of time in shoe stores.

Just place a shoe onto your forearm, if it fits, it'll fit your feet. True.

Willie B
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 155
   Posted 12/1/2010 11:27 AM (GMT -6)   
The finger/PCa connection is probably junk science. IMO.

If true, wouldn't it be better than a PCa biopsy and DREs?   lol

Zen9
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 310
   Posted 12/1/2010 11:49 AM (GMT -6)   

Your head is the same size as your stomach when expanded.

That is why well-informed doctors advise their patients, "Never eat anything bigger than your head."

Zen9


English Alf
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 2215
   Posted 12/1/2010 12:23 PM (GMT -6)   
It actually serious science.

What it is actually saying it that it looks like exposure to excess testosterone in the womb may increase the risk of PCa, and that exposure to excess testosterone in the womb can also cause the fingers to grow in a different way, thus the nature of your fingers may be a marker to indicate who may be worth monitoring more closley for PCa.
It is not saying that your fingers cause PCa
It should also be the case that it will be possible to repeat the study anywhere in the world with any suitably randomly selected group of men.
(I am also sure that a standard technique will have been used to measure everyone's fingers the same way)

And it clearly makes sense that exposure to extra testosterone in the womb could cause other things to happen to a person.

Alf

JB71
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 206
   Posted 12/1/2010 12:56 PM (GMT -6)   
Ring finger longer. Gleason 8 and pretty well broke.
Age, only 71.
July 2009, PSA 9.1, free ratio 0.16
September GLEASON 4+4=8, T2A
Prostate 44cc.
Calcium: 2.46  (range: 2.20 - 2.65 mmol/L)
25 Hydroxy Vitamin D: 102 (range: sufficiency:
76 - 250 nmol/L)
Bone Scan: Negative
CT Scan scheduled for Dec. 1st. Negative.
Started Casodex 50mg. on Nov. 6, first pill of 30.
Got Lupron 22.5mg ( 90 day ) on  November 19.
No real side effects as of Dec. 15 except dry skin and hair but getting quite 'porky' in the belt area even though now I go to the gym, three times a week. Also I dont have a need to shave anymore so now I can save my 'shaving' allowance and direct it to my stash of Depends !
 
Christmas Day got my first hot flashes. Thanks Santa!
 
Open surgery done on Jan. 20th. by Dr. J. Chin at London's University Hospital.
 
Cath removel scheduled for Feb. 8th. Yes, I know,
that will be 19 days. Dr. is out of country until then.
====================================
Pathology Report:
 
Gleason Score: cannot be determined due to hormone therapy effects. ???????
Extraprostatic Extension:
present, left radial, multifocal
present, left basal, multifocal
Resection Margins:
Apical: involved by invasive carcinoma, multifocal
Bladder Neck: involved by invasive carcinoma, unifocal on left side.Other: non-tumoural prostatic present at resection margin.
Perineural Invasion: present.
Seminal Vesicle Invasion: absent
Lymphovascular Invasion: absent
Lymph Node Status: no malignancy in regional lymph nodes
Additional path. findings:
high grade prostatic intraepithelial neoplasia
 
Pathology Stage: yp T3a NO MX
==================================
Radialogist appointment was on Friday Feb. 26 with Dr. Glenn Bauman in London.
Got another Lupron 90 day shot today and he wants to start IMRT soon. CT Scan plus measure scheduled in about 3 weeks. ( march 15)
 
First PSA test since surgery on March 18th.
with the results of <0.03 !!!
 
Started a Facebook page for bikers with prostate issues at:
 
IMRT to started on May 10. Going to get 33 units.
 
.

Galileo
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 697
   Posted 12/1/2010 2:13 PM (GMT -6)   
on one hand, the ring finger is noticeably longer than the index finger, but on the other hand (my right) the two are equal.

Piano
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 847
   Posted 12/1/2010 3:07 PM (GMT -6)   
I remember a news story 5-10 years ago on finger length. The angle then was that men and women's ring fingers differed because of the influence of sex hormones in the womb, and therefore women's ring fingers were generally shorter than the index, while men's were longer.

If there is indeed a general tendency for men's ring fingers to be longer, then it would figure that those of us with PCa will also have longer ring fingers. However my feeling is that finger length is just one of many indicators for PCa.

I just checked my wife's fingers (nearest available woman!) and her ring fingers are actually longer. I had a feeling that the previous time I checked they were shorter. I prefer to not think about what that means... shocked

Post Edited (Piano) : 12/1/2010 2:10:20 PM (GMT-7)


Magaboo
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 1210
   Posted 12/1/2010 3:12 PM (GMT -6)   
Just for the heck of it: Both of index fingers are shorter than my ring fingers :-).
Born 1936
PSA 7.9, Gleason Score 3+4=7, 2 of 8 positive
open RP Nov 06, T3a, Gleasons 3+4=7, Seminal vesicles and lymph nodes clear
Catheter out 15 Dec 06, Dry since 11 Feb 07
All PSA tests in 2007 (4) <.04
PSA tests in 2008: Mar.=.04; Jun.=.05; Sept.=.08; at SRT Start=0.1, Salvage RT completed (33 days-66Gy) 19 Dec 08
PSA: in Jan 09 =.05, all tests to date (Jul 10) <.04
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