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BillyMac
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 1858
   Posted 12/3/2010 3:57 PM (GMT -6)   
A new member Lilosmom posted in a very old thread (these must pop up with a googe search)

"Anyone know anything about newly released research that says rapid increases in PSA (>2.0 in one year) resulted in increased chance of death within 7 years? Study was done by Washington University in St. Louis and I believe John Hopkins. Don't want to discuss with my husband -- don't want to worry him. Hard to meet with doctor without him around...

Lilo's Mom
Husband diagnosed August 2010
PSA 9.0
Biopsy 2% positive in 1 sample of 12
Gleason 3+3
High detail MRI - two tumors, prostate wall intact
iodine seeds inserted 12/1/2010"

Welcome Lilosmom,
his stats are good ie 3+3, 1 off 12 positive but with very little tumour. Without knowing his age it is hard to make suggestions but a great number of men over 50 would have those same stats and never know of it nor have treatment. It would be wise to eliminate any other reasons for the PSA increase (inflammation, BPH etc). Even some physical activities and having sex can effect the readings if carried out shortly before. Don't panic, there is much to be learned before he needs (if ever) to take any action.
Bill
Biopsy

4 of 10 cores positive for Adenocarcinoma-------bummer!
Core 1 <5%, core 2----50%, core 3----60%, core 4----50%
Biopsy Pathologist's comment:
Gleason 4+3=7 (80% grade 4) Stage T2c
Neither extracapsular nor perineural invasion is identified
CT scan and Bone scan show no evidence of metastases
Da Vinci RP Aug 10th 2007

Post-op

Positive for perineural invasion and 1 small focal extension
Negative at surgical margins, negative node and negative vesicle involvement
Some 4+4=8 identified ........upgraded to Gleason 8
PSA Oct '07 <0.1 undetectable
PSA Jan '08 <0.1 undetectable
PSA April '08 <0.001 undetectable (disregarded due to lab "misreporting")
PSA August '08 <0.001 undetectable (disregarded due to lab "misreporting"-----it is not possible for any lab to get a reading of less than .003)

Post-op pathology rechecked by new lab:

Gleason downgraded to 4+3=7
Focal extension comprised of grade 3 cells
PSA September '08 <0.01 (new lab)
PSA February 09 <0.01
PSA May '10 <0.01

www.yananow.net/Mentors/BillM2.htm

Never underestimate old people ............ you don't get to be old by being stupid.

Fairwind
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 3738
   Posted 12/3/2010 4:33 PM (GMT -6)   
Hello Mom..Don't put too much stock in these studies, many of them conflict with each other. Yes, a rapid rise in PSA is not good, but Gleason 6, 1 out of 12, that's very good. Sounds like he had seeds implanted today? How old is he?

Very few Gleason 6 patients die from prostate cancer and even fewer die within 7 years of diagnosis.. Listen to your doctors and stop worrying about stuff you dredge up on the internet..
Age 68.
PSA at age 55: 3.5, DRE normal. Advice, "Keep an eye on it".
age 58: 4.5
" 61: 5.2
" 64: 7.5, DRE "Abnormal"
" 65: 8.5, " normal", biopsy, 12 core, negative...
" 66 9.0 "normal", 2ed biopsy, negative, BPH, Proscar
" 67 4.5 DRE "normal"
" 68 7.0 third biopsy positive, 4 out of 12, G-6,7, 9
RRP Sept 3 2010, pos margin, one pos vesicle nodes neg. Post Op PSA 0.9 SRT, HT, Dec

James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4462
   Posted 12/3/2010 5:43 PM (GMT -6)   
BillyMac, since you were so observant and saw the post there and opened her a new on here, I am gonna delete the one there and let it sink back down to the dark depths again.. tongue Thanks, guy
James C. Age 63
Gonna Make Myself A Better Man tinyurl.com/28e8qcg
4/07: PSA 7.6, 7/07 Biopsy: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe, GS6
9/07: Nerve Sparing open RRP, Path: pT2c, 110 gms., all clear except:
Probable microscopic involvement of the left apical margin -GS6
3 Years: PSA's .04 each test until 04/10-.06, 09/10-.09- Uh-Oh, next in Feb.
ED-total-Bimix 30cc

James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4462
   Posted 12/3/2010 5:44 PM (GMT -6)   
Lilosmom, welcome to the forum, sorry you have a need to be here, and I hope you can get the answers you are looking for.
James C. Age 63
Gonna Make Myself A Better Man tinyurl.com/28e8qcg
4/07: PSA 7.6, 7/07 Biopsy: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe, GS6
9/07: Nerve Sparing open RRP, Path: pT2c, 110 gms., all clear except:
Probable microscopic involvement of the left apical margin -GS6
3 Years: PSA's .04 each test until 04/10-.06, 09/10-.09- Uh-Oh, next in Feb.
ED-total-Bimix 30cc

geezer99
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 12/3/2010 5:49 PM (GMT -6)   
My younger brother, with stats worse than those of your husband, had seeds six years ago and has shown no increase in PSA in that time. Yes, rapid rise in PSA is concerning , but that is most important before the biopsy. Your husband took a most reasonable choice and now has the odds on his side.

BillyMac
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 1858
   Posted 12/3/2010 11:09 PM (GMT -6)   
Whoops, I see that I jumped the gun re treatment. Given the not so serious starting position, if treatment was chosen, then seeds were a very good selection. Like the others have said, don't worry about what studies suggest by simply isolating his pre-biopsy PSA change. It does not of itself show he had serious disease. Relax and go with what happens down the line ....... most having worse stats were treated quite successfully.
Bill

proscapt
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 644
   Posted 12/4/2010 11:25 PM (GMT -6)   
Hello, Lilo's mom

I think you can relax. That study was followed by another that says that 2 point rise is predictive more of a bad pathology than of bad outcome overall. It is still somewhat controversial.

A Gleason six in a small part of one core is a very favorable situation as these things go. Far better than average. Many on this board would love to have that biopsy result.

lilosmom
New Member


Date Joined Dec 2010
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 12/8/2010 9:08 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks, everyone! I did more research on the research and their 'significant increase' in deaths was 25% of a group of people that was incredibly small to start with. Guess I'm a little paranoid at the moment...time will help me get over that. This is a great forum and I'm learning a lot. My husband is 51 and I want him around for a VERY long time!

He's doing great with the seeds and we have a highly respected, experienced radiologist. It's good to read that so many on the forum are doing so well, too. Thanks for your encouragement.
Susan
Husband diagnosed Aug 2010, age 51
PSA 8.7 (up 6.8 in one year)
2% positive in one sample of 12
Detailed MRI showed 2 medium-sized tumors
Gleason 3+3=6
Iodine seeds implanted Dec 1, 2010

Julietinthewoods
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 309
   Posted 12/8/2010 9:41 AM (GMT -6)   
Welcome to the forum, Lilosmom! Although I don't have anything to add regarding your original question, just wanted to say that I hope you will continue to post here, including updates on your husband's progress.

I think his pathology is so promising, and your treatment choice is a good one. Sometimes I think I get "Gleason 6 envy" when I read the stories here!

Juliet (whose husband is a Gleason 7)

Tudpock18
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 4149
   Posted 12/8/2010 2:50 PM (GMT -6)   

Hi Susan:

A belated welcome and we are glad you found us.  I see that your original question has been answered so I have nothing to add to that.  I will just say that I wish you and hubby well and I hope everything continues to go well.  I just had my two year post-seed check up and I hope your two years goes as smoothly as mine did.

As Juliet said, please stick around and let us know your progress.

Tudpock (Jim)


Age 62 (64 now), G 3 + 4 = 7, T1C, PSA 4.2, 2/16 cancerous, 27cc. Brachytherapy 12/9/08. 73 Iodine-125 seeds. Procedure went great, catheter out before I went home, only minor discomfort. Everything continues to function normally as of 12/8/10. PSA: 6 mo 1.4, 1 yr. 1.0, 2 yr. .8. My docs are "delighted"! My journey:
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=1305643&g=1305643#m1305643
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