What is "Normal" PSA?

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Alegar
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 91
   Posted 12/10/2010 10:10 AM (GMT -6)   
Since my PCa reared its ugly head I feel strangely responsible to alert male family and friends of this sickness. Most men I alerted took it to heart and had a PSA test done. Others shrug it off and yet one or two simply tell me that they know their PSA is "normal". When I inquired with one of them he said it is 3.7 and always has been.

Anyone have some background or advice on this? My guess it is different for folks?
Diagnosis:
July 1, '10
PSA 3.88
Gleason 3+3=6
2 out of 12 samples positive

Solution:
DaVinci Oct 1 '10, UNC Chapel Hill
Cath/JP Drain out Oct.16, '10

Personal Statistics:
Age: 54
Weight: 184 lbs.
Height: 6 feet

AIRBORNE ALL THE WAY!

Cajun Jeff
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4106
   Posted 12/10/2010 10:14 AM (GMT -6)   
I think the important fact is if the PSA had a sudden jump. Mine jumped from 3.5 to 4.7 in 1 year and Dr said go to Uro. My GP said he has seen men with a 2.0 that had PCa. If the PSA is not moving that is always a good sign.

Just my thoughts Im not a Dr and not in the medical field.

Cajun Jeff
9/08 PSA 5.4 referred to Urologist
9/08 Biopsy: GS 3+4=7 1 positive core in 12 1% cancer core
10/08 Nerve-Sparing open radicalSurgery Path Report Downgrade 3+3=6 GS Stage pT2c margins clea
r3 month: PSA <0.1
19th month: PSA <0.1
Only issue at this time is ED

Squirm
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 744
   Posted 12/10/2010 11:33 AM (GMT -6)   
Read up on age specific PSA. PSA can and does change as one ages. A jump of .4/yr should raise a flag. Catalona's website has some very good information on this.

Tim G
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 2299
   Posted 12/10/2010 3:26 PM (GMT -6)   
PSA velocity is a good indicator that there may be a problem. I had prostate cancer with a PSA of 2.5, which was a four-fold increase over the previous year's result. This underscores the advisability of getting a baseline PSA early (at the latest by age 40 or earlier for those with a family history of PCa or ethnic susceptiblity to PCa). Baseline PSAs are usually followed up by annual screening for PSA and a DRE. I've seen PCa numbers at another web site with PSAs below 2.0, who had cancer.

I feel lucky that because of regular screening my cancer was caught at an early stage when every option was open to me, including AS. I had plenty of time to research options, get medical opinions, read books and let the diagnosis settle mentally without jumping to hasty decisions. By the time I had surgery six months after the process started, I was comfortable with my choice of treatment.
PSA quadrupled in 1 yr (0.6 to 2.5)
DRE negative 1 of 12 biopsies positive (< 5%)
open surgery June 2006 at age 57
Organ-confined to small pea-sized area, Gleason 3+2
Bilateral nerve-sparing, Prostate weight 34 grams
PSA's undetectable < 0.1

Baptista
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 84
   Posted 12/11/2010 6:06 AM (GMT -6)   
It has been natural to me in advising my friends to have a PSA test, since been diagnosed with PCa in 2000. Some rejected (my elder brother) and some did the test, two of them were caught with the cancer and are now on a continuous battle similar to my case of treatments and side effects. I feel guilty for their status when comparing with the quality of life of the ones that rejected the test at first place. These guys may have no cancer or have it but surely they are enjoying the days better than us, free of worries, pains or else.
I stop recommending PSA tests to the ones over 55, because if they are positive chances are that it is already late for a complete recovery to the natural.
It is really difficult to draw a line.

Baptista
Age: 50 at Dx on May/2000; PSA=22.4;
6x cores biopsy positive; Gleason score (2+3=5)
RP in Aug/2000, PSA=24.2
Negative S-vesicles & lymph node (9); capsular penetration
Voluminous Adenocarcinoma, well-differentiated, Gs (3+2=5); pT3apN0
Post-op lowest PSA=0.18 on Oct/2000; Classified as Micro Metastasis
Jan/2001 PSA=0.26 Biochemical recurrence
AS (Watchful W.) until PSA=3.80 on Oct/2006; MRI & Bone scan negative
Nov/2006 SRT (3D IMRT; 68Gy / 37 fractions)
Feb/2008 lowest nPSA=0.05
May/2009 PSA=0.26 Biochemical recurrence
Oct/2010 PSA=0.95 (doubling at 9.6 months)
Nov/2010 ADT Cyproterone 100mg/day + Eligard 45mg 6-month depot
Asymptomatic, never incontinent, ED since RP

Arno
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2010
Total Posts : 54
   Posted 12/11/2010 2:56 PM (GMT -6)   
I once read, don't have the reference anymore, that for a real large number of men, I think it was over 100,000, their average PSA was 1.06. Depending on age: the 40-year old ones had 0.7, and for 70-year olds this average value increased to 1.4.
March'06: PSA 3.6
Diagnosed at age 63 Sep'09: PSA 575, GS 7 (4+3)
3 positive cores in 6
Bone scan: as a fully lit christmas tree
With Zoladex 10.8 mg +150mg Casodex PSA <0.1
Stop Casodex July 25, 2010 (PSA 12)
AAWR started August 20, 2010 (PSA going down !)
Additionally 4-weekly Zometa (zoledronin acid)

Putt
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 154
   Posted 12/11/2010 3:30 PM (GMT -6)   
"I stop recommending PSA tests to the ones over 55, because if they are positive chances are that it is already late for a complete recovery to the natural."
shakehead
Baptista
 
 I am outraged that you believe you should be the one that decides the fate of those over 55, just because if they are positive, there might be a problem.  I believe it is our calling, as PC survivors, to help our brotherhood protect themselves and their family, from becoming a victim of a very destructive and painful outcome.  Early detection is the key to life.  Wouldn't you want your wife or daughter to be tested for detection of Breast Cancer, even thought it might result in surgery in order to save her life?  Does that mean her QOL should be any different to a loving family, because she is not "natural"?  Hogwash, I see no difference between the two.
 
As an active member of the Wichita Chapter of UsTOO, (a Prostate Cancer support group) I am proud to support the fact that early detection, using PSA and DRE can and will save thousands of lives.
PSA at Dx 105 at age 68, 4/04. ADT (Lupron only), RRP, 5/04. Gleason 4+5=9, Staged pT3bc NO MO, 3D rad, 40 treatments, 8/04. PSA 1/05 <0.01. ADT till 7/07. PSA 0.03 12/08, 0.07 4/09, 0.13 8/09, 0.19 12/09, 0.30 4/10, 8/10 0.37. Will start ADT3 after PSA reaches 1.2.

Baptista
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 84
   Posted 12/12/2010 2:10 PM (GMT -6)   
Putt,
You are right in regards to my will of wanting to help the others for an earlier check-up. I always did that. However, after seeing so many guys caught with the problem just because of a PSA, I start to believe that what we should interpret as "earlier" is for guys in their 40th. Pass mid-50th it seems that the world "earlier" looks more like "too late", which has been the case to us.
Once at that age (over 55) man should prepare themselves for the consequences of a positive result of a PSA, before taking it. For example getting an insurance to cover any needed treatment and discuss with family members about the pros and cons. This is difficult for any guy to discuss with a friend and it may cause ambiguity between the two.
I appreciate the work you are doing. For me it brings me guilt feelings if a friend gets the "too late" term.

Take care
Baptista
Age: 50 at Dx on May/2000; PSA=22.4;
6x cores biopsy positive; Gleason score (2+3=5)
RP in Aug/2000, PSA=24.2
Negative S-vesicles & lymph node (9); capsular penetration
Voluminous Adenocarcinoma, well-differentiated, Gs (3+2=5); pT3apN0
Post-op lowest PSA=0.18 on Oct/2000; Classified as Micro Metastasis
Jan/2001 PSA=0.26 Biochemical recurrence
AS (Watchful W.) until PSA=3.80 on Oct/2006; MRI & Bone scan negative
Nov/2006 SRT (3D IMRT; 68Gy / 37 fractions)
Feb/2008 lowest nPSA=0.05
May/2009 PSA=0.26 Biochemical recurrence
Oct/2010 PSA=0.95 (doubling at 9.6 months)
Nov/2010 ADT Cyproterone 100mg/day + Eligard 45mg 6-month depot
Asymptomatic, never incontinent, ED since RP

erbob
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 281
   Posted 12/12/2010 3:25 PM (GMT -6)   
"I stop recommending PSA tests to the ones over 55, because if they are positive chances are that it is already late for a complete recovery to the natural."
shakehead
Baptista

Well, I got my PC Dx just this year at age 73 and I sure don't feel that it's "too late" for this old coot to recover or I wouldn't have gone through the brachy procedure. Of course my general health is still very good for my age. You older, much more mature guys who are also in my age bracket should should NOT consider yourselves in the position of being "too late".
Bob, located in Southern Colorado
Retired railroader
Born 1936
Dx Jan 2010, Volume 51.345
Gleason 3+4=7, second opinion 4+3=7 (Don't know which to believe)
Brachytherapy May 26, 2010
No catheters
First PSA three months after seeds 0.12
Doing just fine.

Putt
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 154
   Posted 12/12/2010 3:52 PM (GMT -6)   
The words "too early" or "too late" should never be used in regard to the Dx and/or treatment of PC. A DRE, PSA and GS numbers are most commonly used to determine our status, which in turn should help determine the best treatment. Best treatment and when to treat should be the individuals choice, after careful study. Knowledge is our only tool in order to not be led down a path of life long regret. No matter what the age of the individual, once the choice has been made, you move on, make adjustments, and be thankful you have years, and/or decades to enjoy life.

My answer to the original question of this topic would be, you must have a starting point in which to reference future readings. The key is what is going on down the road after a base line test. Don't get hung up on levels of the first test.
PSA at Dx 105 at age 68, 4/04. ADT (Lupron only), RRP, 5/04. Gleason 4+5=9, Staged pT3bc NO MO, 3D rad, 40 treatments, 8/04. PSA 1/05 <0.01. ADT till 7/07. PSA 0.03 12/08, 0.07 4/09, 0.13 8/09, 0.19 12/09, 0.30 4/10, 8/10 0.37. Will start ADT3 after PSA reaches 1.2.

Alegar
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 91
   Posted 12/13/2010 8:03 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the responses!

I also did some research outside of HW and found that my friend is within the "normal" limits. This is 3.7 for a 50 year old. He also has been holding at 3.7 for several years. Although he was very surprised at my having PCa, he did immediately have himself checked. It came back 3.7.

I was just concerned for him.
Diagnosis:
July 1, '10
PSA 3.88
Gleason 3+3=6
2 out of 12 samples positive

Solution:
DaVinci Oct 1 '10, UNC Chapel Hill
Cath/JP Drain out Oct.16, '10

Personal Statistics:
Age: 54
Weight: 184 lbs.
Height: 6 feet

AIRBORNE ALL THE WAY!
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