Running after surgery

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sfigato
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2010
Total Posts : 144
   Posted 1/6/2011 8:07 PM (GMT -7)   
I had surgery 4 weeks ago
I was one of the fortunate few, no post op leakage after cath removal
okay maybe a drop sometimes when standing up from a chair, but not enough to need protection

I'm a runner or was (30 marathons). I've been out twice , a week ago and today and both times ran a slow mile. Each time , I start leaking while running despite attempts to tighten muscles and fight it.

It's a bit ridiculous to run in the Midwestern winter outside with a wet patch around your groin - you can freeze something important, although this area is not getting much use these days anyway

My question is , does it get better, will I ever be able to run without leaking, and is there anything I can do tom improve my chances?
Age at diagnosis 48
Gleason 3+3
Pre-Surgery PSA 5.1, 5.7
Cores Positive: 10 of 12 up to 40%
Treatment: open Surgery Dec 2010

Fairwind
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Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 3562
   Posted 1/6/2011 8:16 PM (GMT -7)   
In your last post, we all felt 4 weeks post surgery was a little early for RUNNING..I would start of by walking a fast mile and see how that goes..I was able to walk with no problems or leakage..Then, as more healing takes place, pick up the pace slowly, a jog, then mix in a quick burst of speed then slow back down..You are coming off a MAJOR operation...I put a "comfort" seat on my bicycle and find that is great exercise too..At 69, jogging and running is just to hard on the knees and hips..
Age 68.
PSA at age 55: 3.5, DRE normal. Advice, "Keep an eye on it".
age 58: 4.5
" 61: 5.2
" 64: 7.5, DRE "Abnormal"
" 65: 8.5, " normal", biopsy, 12 core, negative...
" 66 9.0 "normal", 2ed biopsy, negative, BPH, Proscar
" 67 4.5 DRE "normal"
" 68 7.0 third biopsy positive, 4 out of 12, G-6,7, 9
RRP Sept 3 2010, pos margin, one pos vesicle nodes neg. Post Op PSA 0.9 SRT, HT NOW

sfigato
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2010
Total Posts : 144
   Posted 1/6/2011 8:26 PM (GMT -7)   
it's hard to explain to non-runners, running is life
And the running itself is not uncomfortable , just the dripping
Running gets the blood flowing which is good for healing

I appreciate your advice Fairwind, just looking for positive news from someone who's been there before me
Age at diagnosis 48
Gleason 3+3
Pre-Surgery PSA 5.1, 5.7
Cores Positive: 10 of 12 up to 40%
Treatment: open Surgery Dec 2010

livinadream
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Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 1382
   Posted 1/6/2011 8:30 PM (GMT -7)   
I am a runner biker and swimmer and I hit the road about 5 weeks after surgery during my radiation and Lupron treatments. Granted it was TOUGH to find the energy to get up and get out but I am sure glad I did.
thanks for the post

peace to you
Dale
I was 45 at diagnosis with PSA of 16.3
http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/dalechildress

My gleason score from prostate was 4+5=9 and from the lymph nodes (3 positive) was 4+4=8
I had 44 IMRT's. Scheduled to have a radical on July 11th, 2007, surgery was aborted when it was discovered it had spread to the lymph nodes.
I was on Lupron, Casodex, and Avodart for two years with my last shot March 2009.
My Oncology hospital is The Cancer Treatment Center of America in Zion IL
PSA July of 2007 was 16.4
PSA May of 2008 was.11
PSA July 24th, 2008 is 0.04
PSA Dec 16th, 2008 is .016
PSA Mar 30th, 2009 is .02
PSA July 28th 2009 is .01
PSA OCt 15th 2009 is .11
PSA Jan 15th 2010 is .13
PSA April 16th of 2010 is .16
PSA July 22nd of 2010 is .71
PSA Sept of 2010 is .71
cancer in 4 of 6 cores
92%
80%
37%
28%

F8
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3764
   Posted 1/6/2011 8:31 PM (GMT -7)   
>>it's hard to explain to non-runners, running is life<<
 
like runners are the only ones passionate about something.  hoo-boy eyes .
 
ed
 
 
age: 55
PSA on 12/09: 6.8
no symptoms, no prostate enlargement
12/12 cores positive....gleason 3+4 = 7
HT, BT and IGRT
received 3rd and last lupron shot 9/14/10

Fairwind
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 3562
   Posted 1/6/2011 8:34 PM (GMT -7)   
There is a wide gulf between 48 and 69..I wish you all the best..But don't hurt yourself trying to help yourself...A HUGE change has been made in your plumbing system and it's going to take a while to heal completely..

F8
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3764
   Posted 1/6/2011 8:35 PM (GMT -7)   
>>I am a runner biker and swimmer and I hit the road about 5 weeks after surgery during my radiation and Lupron treatments.<<
 
i've been cycling in the gym for a few months now.  i had to give up the road right after brachytherapy because the seeds + lupron + flomax + heat kicked my butt.  my IT bands are so tight now i walk like fred sanford when i get up.
 
ed
age: 55
PSA on 12/09: 6.8
no symptoms, no prostate enlargement
12/12 cores positive....gleason 3+4 = 7
HT, BT and IGRT
received 3rd and last lupron shot 9/14/10

142
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 6760
   Posted 1/6/2011 8:39 PM (GMT -7)   
Sifgato,
 
My opinion, and the orders of my surgeon, were to do nothing - NOTHING - no exercise, no driving, no lifting over 5 pounds, with the exception of normal walking, for at least 4 weeks. At 4 weeks, he let me drive, but left the other restrictions in place. At 12 weeks, he raised the lift limit to 10 pounds. At 20 weeks, he said it was time to start normal exercise (upper torso), and jogging if I wanted.
 
You are pushing it according to those suggestions.
 
And yes, even walking a half mile without leaking was not possible for me until about three months out. Now, at 14 months, I can get about two miles in without a major leak.
 
I was 56, and in reasonable health, no pre-surgery issues.
 
My suggestion is to allow your body to heal first. I was told by my uro/surgeon that the internal stitches don't even start breaking up until 8-10 weeks after surgery, so you are pulling on incisions that aren't healed yet. Don't let the superglue on the skin fool you.
DaVinci 10/2009
My IGRT journey (2010) -
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=1756808

DJBearGuy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 680
   Posted 1/6/2011 10:39 PM (GMT -7)   
sifgato,

Even when I was young, I was never in your running level. But I understand. I try to explain it to others like this--for someone like yourself, it hurts to have to not run.

Probably you've been doing kegels? Do you know if you're doing them correctly?

It does make sense that you'd tend to leak a little while running, with all that bouncing around. If that is the problem, you could try race walking and see if that is less leak prone. In any event, you're almost certain to improve with time.

DJ
Diagnosis at 53. PSA 2007 about 2; 2008 4.3
Biopsy Sept 2008: 6 of 12 cores pos; Gleason 4+3 = 7
CT & Bone scan neg
Da Vinci at City of Hope Dec 8, 2008
Rad prostatectomy & lymph node dissection
Cath out on 7th day, in on 8th day, out again 14th day after neg cystogram
Path: pT2c; lymph nodes neg; margins involv; 41 grams,
PSA 1/08, 4/09,7/09, 10/09, 11/09,2/10 <0.01, 10/10 0.1

Ger42
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2010
Total Posts : 189
   Posted 1/7/2011 5:22 AM (GMT -7)   
My doctor will not let me even ride a bike until after 3 months. I have a recumbent stationary bike and a recumbent trike. He said no to both. I walk a lot but have still gained weight. A few more weeks and it's back on the bike and trike. I do have 20 years on you and never ran a marathon or prepared for one. I can't imagine being in your shoes and just walking but you do need to heal. Good luck.
Age 68 weight 185 height 6'
Samples taken 4/19/2010 sent to Bostwick
3 out of 12 samples cancer
1) gleason score 3+3 involving 65%
2) gleason score 3+3 involving 65%
3) gleason score 3+3 involving 10%
PSA 3.5 Mar 19
PSA 2.5 Apr 4
Bone scan clean CT scan clean
Da Vinci 10/12/2010 DR Paul Kahn all nerves spared
Home 10/19/20
Cath out 10/22/2010
Prostate 56 gm. Gleason grade 3+4 = 7
2 MO PSA 0.0

60Michael
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 2194
   Posted 1/7/2011 7:57 AM (GMT -7)   
Four weks is pretty quick to be back in running shoes, but it should improve, and I say should as there are no guarantes with PCa. But I was probably running or "jogging" with a cane in one hand within 2 months, just cant remember for sure. If you have run that many marathons you might have expectations that are high, so try downgrading them for awhile and build it back up slowly. Time should improve your chances greatly. Enjoy that mile and keep us posted.
Michael
Dx with PCA 12/08 2 out of 12 cores positive 4.5 psa
59 yo when diagnosed, 61 yo 2010
Robotic surgery 5/09
Gleason upgraded to 3+5, volume less than 10%
2 pads per day, 1 depends but getting better,
started ED tx 7/17, slow go
Post op dx of neuropathy
T2C left lateral and left posterior margins involved
3 months psa.01, 6 month psa.4
Started IMRT Jan. 2010 72gys
7month post SRT PSA .2

Bring-it-on
New Member


Date Joined Jan 2011
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 1/7/2011 9:09 AM (GMT -7)   
If it were me I would error on the side of caution.  Like others have suggested, I would start out walking and see how that goes.
 
I am 65 and I have been a jogger/walker for over 35 years.  I am 8 months past surgery and I can walk about 2 miles now leaking just a few drops (most days).  When I try to jog I leak more....wearing 1/2 of a Depends Guard pad takes care of it.
 
I wish you the best and I am wishing I was as dry as you have been.  Take it easy and work up to it very slowly.  You are doing to well to regress by pushing it.  Best of luck!!!!!!

Age 65
Feb 2, 2010 12 core biopsy
Feb 5, 2010 Dr. called to inform me there were cancer cells
15% of 2 cores positive
Gleason 3 + 3
Partin Table T1C
PSA 2.7
April 22, 2010 DaVinci Robotic Surgery nerves spared
April 29, catheter removed, 6 to 7 pads per day
August 4 to 5 pads per day
October 3 pads per day
Currently 1-2 pads per day

Bring-it-on

clocknut
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 2641
   Posted 1/7/2011 9:39 AM (GMT -7)   

If you want to see something ridiculous, check out this guy on the DaVinci website.  He claims he ran a 10k a week after surgery, a triathlon at 3 weeks, and a marathon with his son at 4 weeks.  I saw this prior to my surgery and thought, "Well, how bad can it be if a guy can go out and do that!"

Having had the surgery, I find this ridiculously misleading, and I have to wonder what kind of doctor would OK this kind of activity, and why DaVinci would even allow this on their website.  He's the top guy shown under "patient stories."  Maybe he had some other urologic surgery...not prostatectomy?

http://www.davincisurgery.com/urology/

By the way, I don't intend to slight the guy in the testimonial.  Whatever procedure he had, his is an amazing story.  I just think his experience is misleading for anyone contemplating DaVinci surgery for prostate removal.  In fact, that sort of activity would be absolutely dangerous.


Post Edited (clocknut) : 1/7/2011 9:50:14 AM (GMT-7)


Casey59
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3172
   Posted 1/7/2011 10:24 AM (GMT -7)   
sfigato said...
My question is , does it get better, will I ever be able to run without leaking, and is there anything I can do tom improve my chances?
 
Short answers:  yes, and yes.  You are off to a great start, already, and it's only been a month.  You are already ahead of the curve, so to speak, with regard to urinary continence recovery.
 
My experience was this:  Eleven days after my surgery, with my surgeon's permission, I went to the Y and ran on the elliptical trainer (I have re-constructed knees and can't take the pounding of the road).  Similar to you, I went a 2 slow miles on that first day.  Different from you, I had the minimally invasive surgery which has small incisions, so my physical recover would naturally be faster than yours after your open surgery.  Either way, we both had major surgery, and it takes a while to recover energy levels and appetites.
 
The general rule of thumb after minimally invasive prostatectomy (and the specific instructions of my surgeon) were to avoid abdominal exercises until 6-weeks.  With his approval, I started doing core exercises at the 6-week point, and I hired a personal trainer for 30-minute sessions starting week-7.  Generally, the recovery period is longer for open prostatectomy...please do consult your doctor on his specific restrictions for you.
 
Kegel exercises, as you may know, do accelerate one's time to full continence recovery.  What I did with the trainer was to work Kegels into my core workout routine.  As a generalized example, I would "clinch" the Kegel, do a "crunch & return", release the Kegel, then repeat.  Once I started doing this, I moved to full continence fairly quickly (I can't remember, but I think it was about 4 or 5 weeks later).
 
You should be ready to run Chicago on Oct 9, 2011.  My wife ran it in 2009 with a grapefruit-sized tumor (unbeknownst to her) in her belly.
 
 

edit:  clairfy

Post Edited (Casey59) : 1/7/2011 12:15:06 PM (GMT-7)


Arnie
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 372
   Posted 1/7/2011 10:37 AM (GMT -7)   
Sfigato...........I was 56 when diagnosed and treated via DaVinci...........I'm now 2 years out. I was a regular runner before the surgery, and had trained for and ran a 10 mile race on tough terrain a week before the surgery. I was also doing weight training as well. In short, I went into surgery in pretty terrific shape. My surgeon advised me not to do anything but walk for the first 4 weeks. After he saw me at that interval, he gave me the green light to try running; I tried 2 miles the first time w/o diffculty, and leaked a few drops or so. For some reason, I didn't leak as much when running, as say when I got up off the couch, or most times at night. At 6 weeks, I was back to my maintenance level of 5 miles every other day, leaking less and less all the time-----------this is just my experience. I didn't go back to weights until the 3 month mark post surgery. I've been fortunate in that area since surgery. ED has been problemtaic, but I'm making progress. I think you'll be fine-------listen to your body and don't press it.
 
Arnie in DE
 

James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4461
   Posted 1/7/2011 11:07 AM (GMT -7)   
On thing to remember: even though we may have a 5 inch incision or 6 holes punched in us, we still have the same cutting and stitching inside. The same organs were removed, in a fairly similar manner. Those precise alignments and oh-so delicate stitching holding us together is the same. That should be the worry about causing damage and reversing the doctors careful operating skills. If we spend months selecting the best doctor, with the great amount of skill recommended, then why would we want to risk it all by premature and ill-advised attempts to return to our normal exercise/activites soon after surgery? Why anyone would risk that for some tempory gains of well-being is beyond my understanding. Sometimes we need to say no to our complusions, as usually we only get one chance at a complete healing and recovery. This is an area that needs to be decided after careful consultation with the surgeon and following his recommendations to the letter. Even then, if I felt he was rushing things, I would wait until I was comfortable with the idea of safety. I'm just saying.......your mileage may vary..., etc. Just my opinion....
James C. Age 63
Gonna Make Myself A Better Man tinyurl.com/28e8qcg
4/07: PSA 7.6, 7/07 Biopsy: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe, GS6
9/07: Nerve Sparing open RP, Path: pT2c, 110 gms., clear except:
Probable microscopic involvement-left apical margin -GS6
3 Years: PSA's .04 each test until 04/10-.06, 09/10-.09, 01/11-.09
ED-total-Bimix 30cc

sfigato
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2010
Total Posts : 144
   Posted 1/7/2011 5:30 PM (GMT -7)   
My surgeon gave me the thumbs up to run after Jan 1 - ok I cheated by a day

He was recommended to me by a well known surgeon who himself had PCa and had the open procedure with the same surgeon and then ran 16 miles 4 weeks post (I have no idea how he did that - must be a navy seal )

So if the surgeons are ok with it, who am I to differ?

I appreciate the advice and concern, I will report back on my progress
Age at diagnosis 48
Gleason 3+3
Pre-Surgery PSA 5.1, 5.7
Cores Positive: 10 of 12 up to 40%
Treatment: open Surgery Dec 2010

James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4461
   Posted 1/7/2011 7:09 PM (GMT -7)   
It'd been nice if you had told us that little tidbit earlier...Now I feel like an idiot, oh well, not a new feeling for me... blush devil tongue
James C. Age 63
Gonna Make Myself A Better Man tinyurl.com/28e8qcg
4/07: PSA 7.6, 7/07 Biopsy: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe, GS6
9/07: Nerve Sparing open RP, Path: pT2c, 110 gms., clear except:
Probable microscopic involvement-left apical margin -GS6
3 Years: PSA's .04 each test until 04/10-.06, 09/10-.09, 01/11-.09
ED-total-Bimix 30cc

Tim G
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 2249
   Posted 1/7/2011 8:05 PM (GMT -7)   
open prostatectomy surgery requires an incision thru the skin, fat and muscle layers, and the membrane surrounding the internal organs. The peritoneum, fat and skin heal within days, but the muscle takes the strain of the abdominal pressure and heals slower.
 
The muscle heals in two stages: (1) A thickened, inflexible scar forms with nerve endings (2) The scar tissue becomes flexible and adapts to movement.  Healing must be allowed to occur to prevent weakness in the scar line and potential for rupture or herniation of the abdominal contents thru the weakened muscle.
 
Many physicians recommend that after this kind of surgery that you can begin exercise at six weeks and gradually build up to full training.  This is the approach I used after my open surgery, following my doctor's advice.  Why push the envelope and risk injury?  
 
 
PSA quadrupled in one year (0.6 to 2.6)
DRE negative Retested at 3 months
1 of 12 biopsies positive (< 5%) G6
RP open surgery June 2006 at age 57
Bilateral nerve-sparing
Organ-confined to small area, downgraded to G5
Prostate weight 34 grams
PSAs < 0.1

Post Edited (TimG) : 1/7/2011 8:09:10 PM (GMT-7)

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