Will I have normal sex again?

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arizonaguy58
New Member


Date Joined Jan 2011
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 1/27/2011 10:51 PM (GMT -6)   
I am 52 and this all started 18 months ago when I had a really bad UTI that wouldn't go away.  After that was cured I developed PE. I had lasted 10 minutes or more prior to to the UTI, then I was lucky to last two minutes!  Every year as part of a regular check up I find ou my PSA.  In Jan of 2010 it was 5.2.  My doc put me on Cipro and tested again in early March.  PSA was 5.6.  The she ordered a free PSA test.  Results came back and it was 7.2 with 11% free.  I had a 16 core biopsy and 1 had cancer. 3% of the sample had a Gleason of 3 + 3.  after those results in late May I was told that I did not have to decide on treatment for awhile, like six months.  Up until the UTI in 2009 my wife and I had been very sexually active.  We would have sex 3 or 4 times a week.  Even after developing the PE we would try one or two times a week.  We both became uncertain about all of the options for treatment.  We ended up going to a urologlogy group over 150 miles away in Phoenix.  I elected to have RP and on Oct 25 surgery took place.  Same Gleason and none in lymph nodes or seminal vessicals, but the  prostate was sticky and hard to resect from the rectum.  After 15 days cather out and overnight dry.  If I cough at night I have a bit of leakage.
 
In early December received the EricAid, I had been taking 5mg Cialis at night since cather out in mid November.  I truly thought I was dead down there until December 5th.  My wife was in the shower and I was talking to her and she just bent over to reveal things down there and I got puffy.   since then this happens with no rhyme or reason.  It could be a hug or sitting in the spa and it just happens.  But none of those 'plumpies' as my wife calls them are hard enough for intercourse.  We have used the ErecAid nine times in the last two months for intercourse, but the erections are not always rock hard and they are often very cold, which is not good for my wife. Otherwise I use it everyday to keep blood flowing.
 
Things seem to be working but we both wonder if I will ever get fully hard again on my own without that pump?  If so how long? There are times she can be nude and nothing and then just a simple hug and I feel things stiring.  It seems that things are not always 'on' down there.  I am very lucky to have a very understanding wife. 

Post Edited (arizonaguy58) : 1/27/2011 9:57:13 PM (GMT-7)


Casey59
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3172
   Posted 1/27/2011 11:06 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi guy,

Welcome to HealingWell. Sorry to hear about your journey, but here you are among many others who have been down similar paths.

Your question was "how long?" Wish I could give a precise answer, but the reality is that it varies widely among men. Most doctors that I've heard about tend to give a relatively conservative answer, like "it could take up to a year." Hopefully, your surgeon also gave you some guidance to be patient.

We are about the same age, and my experience was that it slowly came back over the span of months. I also used Cialis in the first year. Now in my 2nd year, I still have some Cialis pills, but they are "optional"...if I remember, I'll likely continue to take them until they are gone, but they aren't necessary (however, I do rather enjoy the effect).

I do encourage you to be patient. If you had nerve sparing surgery, and if your pre-surgery performance was good, then given a little time, it is very likely that your post-surgery performance will return and be very similarly satisfying.

best wishes...
 
 
 
 
 
edit:  typo

Post Edited (Casey59) : 1/27/2011 10:10:11 PM (GMT-7)


English Alf
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 2211
   Posted 1/28/2011 1:57 AM (GMT -6)   
Welcome to the forum.

I think that the honest answer to your question has to be "No".

However......you used the expression "Normal sex" when in my experience there is no such thing. So your question actually needs to be redefined as "will you have sex the way you used to?"
Again the answer is "no". This time that isn't a negative answer though, as the situation for all of us (even the ones like me with next to no ED) has been that most of us have a sex life of some sort after treatment, it's just that it's usually completely different and very often distinctly complictaed and takes more time and requires more patience, and openness with partners (and most definitely help from partners, along with their understanding, patience etc too.) And yes it can be satisfying, which is what your question is really asking about I think. You can also discover that there is plenty of satisfaction related to one's partner having an orgasm even if you don't have everything you want.

Also your surgery was less than 6 months ago, so I'd say your recovery will continue for a while, and you will see more improvement as time passes, but doing anything to get the blood flowing in the penis helps, as the blood supplies the oxygen and nutrients etc to keep the tissue healthy etc.

Alf
edited typo
Born Jun ‘60
Apr 09 PSA 8.6
DRE neg
Biop 2 of 12 pos
Gleason 3+3
29 Jul 09 DaVinci AVL-NKI Amsterdam
6 Aug 09 Cath out
PostOp Gleason 3+4 Bladder neck & Left SVI -T3b
No perin’l No vasc invasion Clear margins
Dry at night
21 Sep 09 No pads daytime
17 Nov 09 PSA 0.1
17 Mar 10 PSA 0.4 sent to RT
13 Apr CT
66Gy 28 Apr to 11 Jun 10
Tired + weird BMs
14 Sep 10 PSA <0.1
12 Jan 11 PSA <0.1
Erection OK

Post Edited (English Alf) : 1/28/2011 4:58:51 AM (GMT-7)


zufus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3149
   Posted 1/28/2011 5:08 AM (GMT -6)   
Arizona58 you just heard from two the better informed guys (in my opinion) about these issues, you can probably bank on what they are saying. English Alf has a very open approach to telling one what to expect or the realities, always enjoy seeing both you guys reply to this man.

Alot of guys find out, it is never the same and if it is you are very fortunate.
Dx-2002 total urinary blockage, bPsa 46.6 12/12 biopsies all loaded 75-95% vol.; Gleasons scores 7,8,9's (2-sets), gland size 35, ct and bone scans look clear- ADT3 5 months prior to radiations neutron/photon 2-machines, cont'd. ADT3, quit after 2 yrs. switched to DES 1-mg, off 1+ yr., controlled well, resumed, used intermittently, resumed useage

Zen9
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 310
   Posted 1/28/2011 8:58 AM (GMT -6)   

arizonaguy58
New Member


Date Joined Jan 2011
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 1/28/2011 5:50 PM (GMT -6)   
Maybe a bit more information would be useful. Even when I started having trouble with ED almost a year before the biospy about 90% of the time I was hard enough to achieve penetration from any position. On top, from behind, my wife on top and a few others. Now with the EricAid I can only penetrate her in the missionary position. We have tried from behind since that is her favorite for having a G spot orgasm and that didn't work. We have tried with her on top within 30 seconds of taking off the Ericaid. I did try the tighter ring 'C' but the tightest ring hurts too much. I was a bigger girth before surgey and now the Ericaid has made it bigger. It is hard to pull it off after I have got an erection pumped up. Even if I take out the brown ring I still have some problems. It seems that once I am inside of my wife that rock hardness goes away within a minute or so and I can still continue intercoure but it is not hard enough to give my wife an orgasm no matter how long we make love.

Normal before was that my hardness within three to four minutes would give her an orgasm. I just wanted to know if the up and down with my getting firm was normal. That is my wife can sit on my lap with clothes on and I can get firmer and other times not. I was always up for her advances prior to surgery. THis is the second marriage for both of us and in our privious marriages there was little to no sex near the end. In the eight years before cancer we would mark down how many times we would have sex and for each time we would put $5 in a box. We got to 2,341 times in eight years. I guess I was very lucky to have such an amorus wife.

So normal... A hard on that last for more than one minute. And how can I make love to her from behind. Why can't I penetrate her that way but I can do it missionary?? I even looked up the easiest position to penetrate and it was somewhat vauge but I have been lead to believe that from behind should be easy. What am I doing wrong?

Post Edited (arizonaguy58) : 1/28/2011 4:54:39 PM (GMT-7)


sv
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2010
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 1/28/2011 8:11 PM (GMT -6)   
Last October, after being able to have sex immediately after catheter removal with 3/4 erections to two months later graduating to "towel rack ready to cut diamonds", last week I regressed to starting with firm erections but within seconds of penetration, going nearly limp. I still use 100mg vitamin V but it doesn't seem to work like it used to.

What could be causing this regression and is it normal? I was continent at catheter removal with only a few drops leaking when sneezing or getting off my motorcycle but now I am 100% leak-proof, even when lifting weights and wrestling.

lifeguyd
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 672
   Posted 1/28/2011 8:15 PM (GMT -6)   
Sex is different after PCa surgery.(understatement)    You already know about dry orgasm and incontinence and all that crap.   Sounds to me like you need bimix or trimix injections.  This is an easy relatively painless solution to even the worst erectiile problems.  It has worked great for me.  The pain and disconnect of a vacuum pump was never right and pills never ever worked for me, but shots do it every time without long waits or trying to fool around with constrictors and stuff.  Give it a try.

Arch
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 192
   Posted 1/28/2011 9:35 PM (GMT -6)   
Arizona,
 
I started with the pump 2 months out of surgery and graduated to Viagara only a couple of months later, 5 months out of surgery I was able to penetrate with no aids or pills although it wasn't as hard as pre surgery. I'm now 8 months past surgery and it continues to get harder (firmer) with each month. I agree some positions are just not achievable so our "joining " is more limited. It still feels like I get a bit of a hinge effect that I had with the pump. I'm hoping for a complete recovery however I have a feeling it will never be the same.
 
Its a tough loss when you enjoyed something so much pre-surgery but you have to look at the big picture, we're healthy, still enjoying sex and have understanding partners, thats a pretty good set of parameters when you consider the alternatives and some of the less fortunate.
 
My experience is that it does improve with time, but slowly.
 
r
age 56
PSA 5.5
Biopsy, both lobes PCa
Gleason 3/4=7
open RP May 18, 2010
Pathology: 15% involved, lymph nodes and v. d. clear, margins clear
June 3-10 10-12 pads/day
2 months 8 pads/day
Aug 1, 2010 5-6 pads/day
Aug 20, 2010 3-5 pads per day
Aug 16, 3 month PSA: undetectable
Sept 22, 2 pads a day
Oct 12, PSA 0.03
Dec 1.5 pads a day
ED OK with no drugs Dec 2010

Fairwind
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 3630
   Posted 1/28/2011 10:08 PM (GMT -6)   
Will I have normal sex again?

I guess that depends on how you define "normal".....

arizonaguy58
New Member


Date Joined Jan 2011
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 1/28/2011 11:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Arch,

It sounds like there is hope. One day these not so firm erections will get hard enough to satisfy my loving and patient wife. My wife does not worry about her pleasure during this time, but at Christmas she said she didn't want to get hysteria. I picked out a nice G spot vibrator for her. It has worked a few times but not as good as what she calls 'the real deal.' The vibrator does make her a bit looser and it is easier for me to penitrate, but only missionary. Still trying to figure out how to make love to her when she is standing. We have tired her bending over the arm of a sofa. We are both near the same height. It is good that we both have found reason to laugh at our sexual escapades of late. It is a good thing or we both would have given up.

Radical
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 739
   Posted 1/29/2011 1:08 AM (GMT -6)   
Sex ! Whats That !
Age 53yrs [Gold Coast Qld, Australia]
PSA 4 Gleason 7 [3+4=7]
RP 24/12/08 Dr Philip Stricker [Sydney]
Upgrade Gleason Score 7.6 [4+3=7]
Stage 2 Margin status- Focal Involvement
ED- okay with Meds.
PSA at 2 yrs, no change remains 0.03
"Everyday in Every-way I Get Better'

James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4462
   Posted 1/29/2011 8:19 AM (GMT -6)   
Arizonaguy. I think you might find some fresh and maybe more direct answers in your discussion at Pauls' ED help-site. Click here and check it out.

www.franktalk.org

I appreciate your questions, but the thread is beginning to become more graphic and descriptive than some here are comfortable with. There's only so many ways that can describe your problem without it becoming a graphic novel.tongue At FrankTalk.org, things are a little more -man-talk oriented, if you know what I mean.
James C. Age 63
Gonna Make Myself A Better Man tinyurl.com/28e8qcg
4/07: PSA 7.6, 7/07 Biopsy: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe, GS6
9/07: Nerve Sparing open RP, Path: pT2c, 110 gms., clear except:
Probable microscopic involvement-left apical margin -GS6
3 Years: PSA's .04 each test until 04/10-.06, 09/10-.09, 01/11-.09
ED-total-Bimix 30cc

Post Edited (James C.) : 1/29/2011 7:47:01 AM (GMT-7)


Zen9
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 310
   Posted 1/29/2011 9:25 AM (GMT -6)   
James, James ... what are you saying?

Speaking as someone who hasn't had sex in 2 1/2 years, I want him to describe everything in as much detail as possible!

Thanks.

Zen9

clocknut
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 2649
   Posted 1/29/2011 9:40 AM (GMT -6)   
Not me.  I think the term is "TMI"

daveshan
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 363
   Posted 1/29/2011 10:51 AM (GMT -6)   
I've found as far as relations with my wife goes a new attitude is developing, i might even go so far as to say it's a better one. Things are not the same, but I'm almost wondering if it's better in some ways. Let's just say I'm not as concerned with the destination as I was but I'm enjoying the road more. Sex has become more play and less of a goal.

If I were to offer any advice it would be to not so much lower your expectations but modify them a bit. All of our bodies have been beat to he** whether by surgery or radiation. Things will be different, I wasted a lot of time regretting what I've lost, luckily I got past that and focused on what I can do.

As to your original question. You're 3 months out!!! give it some time! You're lucky to be able to get any response at all right now. My surgeon said recovery could take up to 2 years and she didn't expect much for a year. I've been a bit ahead of that curve and am making steady but slow progress.

Cuddle, hug, play!

Good luck with your recovery.
Dave in Durango CO
07-06 PSA 2.5
01-08 PSA 5.5
09-09 PSA 6.5
12-09 Biopsy, initial Gleason 9 (4+5) later reduced to 8 with tertiary 5
03-01-10 Age 55 RRP in Durango CO by Dr Sejal Quale and Dr Shandra Wilson
03-16-10 Path' G-8 (4+4+5) Bilateral involving 21% of left lobe, 3% of right lobe, SVI, Focal positive margin, pT3b NO MX

All PSA as of 1-25-11 <0.04

T40
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 103
   Posted 1/29/2011 2:50 PM (GMT -6)   
Ok Arizona,

There are some guys here who are having major difficulty with their recovery. I think that is due to several different reasons and when combined causes even more problems.

First you have to have the desire. You can check that off. So could I.

Second you need a willing partner. You can check that off. So can I now after getting divorced and then finding an amazing women.

3rd you probably need to be a bit younger. You are only 52 so your chances of recovery are better. I'm 42 so age is on my side too.

4th you need to be in good shape and continue to work out after surgery. I work out on a consistent basis and believe this has helped.

I'm 18 months past surgery. I'm using 1/2 a 100mg viagra now and have 100% normal sex. Sometimes the pill works at night and continues for another round in the morning. I only had one side spared. Didn't see much noticeable or usable until about 11 months after my operation. At that point I stopped trimix and have been steadily improving ever since.

You are already noticing improvements. Just keep on with it and there is a very good chance you will continue to improve till you are back in the saddle. It's easy to get discouraged and when you hear of others who have worse recovery's it doesn't help. So, hope my story gives you a boost and that you can get to where I am soon enough!

T42

Mavica
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 407
   Posted 1/29/2011 4:44 PM (GMT -6)   
No.
Age: 61 (58 at diagnosis - June, 2008)
April '08 PSA 4.8 ("free PSA" 7.9), up from 3.5 year prior
June '08 had biopsy, 2 days later told results positive but in less than 1% of sample (Gleason's 3+3=6)
Developed sepsis 2 days post-biopsy, seriously ill in hospital for 3 days
Dr. recommended robotic removal using da Vinci; Surgery 9/10/08
Northwestern Memorial Hospital, Chicago, IL; Dr. Robert Nadler, Urologist/Surgeon
Post-Op Gleason's: 3+3, Tertiary 4; Margins: Free ; Bladder & Urethral: Free
Seminal vesicles: Not involved; Lymphatic/Vascular Invasion: Not involved
Tumor: T2c; location: Bilateral; Volume: 20%; Catheter: Removed 12-days after surgery
Incontinent: Yes (1 to 2 light (woman's style) pad per day)
ED: Combination of Cialis and MUSE (alprostadil) once weekly: started 9-27-08
Returned to work 9-29-08 (18-19 days post-op)
PSA test result, post-op, 10/08: 0.0; 12/08: 0.0; 4/09: 0.0; 9/09: 0.0; 3/10: 0.0; 9/10: 0.0

arizonaguy58
New Member


Date Joined Jan 2011
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 1/30/2011 10:26 AM (GMT -6)   
I truly am glad that I found this site and this forum. I only wish now that I had found this before my biopsy. From reading the four post a the top the list I have learned alot of ne information. Here in this thread I can say I have learned even more. It is like what T40 said, he now has a willing partner. My wife did not have a great first marriage. Her ex develped arititis by the time she was 22. It was so bad that by the time she was 25 he could only have sex with her standing up. The last ten years of her marriage was almost sexless. As for my self after the birth of our second son in 1987 sex became nonexistant. That lasted until 2000 when I divorced her. So for both of us it has been difficult. Often when we are out like at a resturant we are asked if we are newly weds. We still sit on the same side of a booth, hold hands and such. Reading Daveshan and T40 post truly gives me hope! I just wanted to know if the ups and downs were a normal part of the healing process. But at the same time I know it is hard for my wife too. I am lucky as my wife is not afraid to talk about it with her friends. Just two days ago she was talking to her hair dresser and her husband. He is 18 months out. He talked of pain and the on again off again return of 'normal' sex. So yesterday morning my wife said she has a better prospective of what I am going through. I think that all men that are here who have willing, loving and helpful wifes want to get 'back in he saddle,' as T40 puts it. So its just one day at a time and I know it will happen again. I will keep learning more from everyone who shares.

arizonaguy58
New Member


Date Joined Jan 2011
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 1/30/2011 10:26 AM (GMT -6)   
I truly am glad that I found this site and this forum. I only wish now that I had found this before my biopsy. From reading the four post a the top the list I have learned alot of ne information. Here in this thread I can say I have learned even more. It is like what T40 said, he now has a willing partner. My wife did not have a great first marriage. Her ex develped arititis by the time she was 22. It was so bad that by the time she was 25 he could only have sex with her standing up. The last ten years of her marriage was almost sexless. As for my self after the birth of our second son in 1987 sex became nonexistant. That lasted until 2000 when I divorced her. So for both of us it has been difficult. Often when we are out like at a resturant we are asked if we are newly weds. We still sit on the same side of a booth, hold hands and such. Reading Daveshan and T40 post truly gives me hope! I just wanted to know if the ups and downs were a normal part of the healing process. But at the same time I know it is hard for my wife too. I am lucky as my wife is not afraid to talk about it with her friends. Just two days ago she was talking to her hair dresser and her husband. He is 18 months out. He talked of pain and the on again off again return of 'normal' sex. So yesterday morning my wife said she has a better prospective of what I am going through. I think that all men that are here who have willing, loving and helpful wifes want to get 'back in he saddle,' as T40 puts it. So its just one day at a time and I know it will happen again. I will keep learning more from everyone who shares.

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25364
   Posted 1/30/2011 11:18 AM (GMT -6)   
James, I was thinking the same thing about directing the graphics to franktalk. Was almost getting TMI hAere for a general audience.

Arizona, the best answer is still a flat out NO. It will never be "normal" Pre-surgery, Pre-cancer again the rest of your life. But sex can be just as fulfilling as before. You got a lot of tools to try and use. Sounds like you got a great and cooperative partner, that's half the battle right there, and sounds like you got a lot of imagination in that department. These will all help you as you recover in that area of your life.

David
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 Not taking it
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/23/10

Jstars
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 489
   Posted 1/30/2011 12:47 PM (GMT -6)   
AZ-guy,

Maybe one final note on this thread:
It is unclear to me: "Did he use one ring or two? You know, in all the excitement, I kinda lost track myself!" -- D.H.C.

Anyways, two at least are needed.. I use an 'A' (tan) and a 'B' pink Osbon. Plus the penile sleeve. I have used a pink 'D' and yeah that is pretty tight.

Go over to Franktalk.org for lots of info on the sleeve.

J

Post Edited (JStars) : 1/30/2011 5:40:43 PM (GMT-7)

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