pre vs. post RP PSA

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Jerry L.
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Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3072
   Posted 2/12/2011 3:05 PM (GMT -6)   
Does recurring PSA (after RP) generally follow the same characteristics as before RP. For example - doubling time, etc...
Nov. 2009 Dx at Age 44
Dec. 2009 DaVinci Robotic Surgery
Jan. 2010 T3b, Gleason 9
Feb. 2010 Adjuvant Radiation

PSA History:
-----------------
Nov. 2009 4.30
Feb. 2010 <.05
May 2010 <.05
Aug. 2010 <.05
Nov. 2010 <.05

142
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 7084
   Posted 2/12/2011 3:20 PM (GMT -6)   
If you have BCR, when your PSA becomes detectable, doubling time is important to help determine what steps to take next.
 
Your report is still undetectable, so it would appear that you are doing fine.
DaVinci 10/2009
My IGRT journey (2010) -
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=1756808

Jerry L.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3072
   Posted 2/12/2011 4:06 PM (GMT -6)   
Is the doubling time before surgery the same as after surgery wit BCR?
Nov. 2009 Dx at Age 44
Dec. 2009 DaVinci Robotic Surgery
Jan. 2010 T3b, Gleason 9
Feb. 2010 Adjuvant Radiation

PSA History:
-----------------
Nov. 2009 4.30
Feb. 2010 <.05
May 2010 <.05
Aug. 2010 <.05
Nov. 2010 <.05

Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 2/12/2011 4:17 PM (GMT -6)   
Jerry,
From what I understand there is no way to know until it happens. Something we both would like to avoid. Post-op PSA could have a fast doubling time and it could be very slow even with your Gleason 9. I have seen little correlation other than to say higher Gleasons tend to have faster doubling times.

Tony
Advanced Prostate Cancer at age 44 (I am 48 now)
pT3b,N0,Mx (original PSA was 19.8) EPE, PM, SVI. Gleason 4+3=7

Treatments:
Da Vinci Surgery ~ 2/17/2007
Adjuvant Radiation Therapy ~ IMRT Completed 8/07
Adjuvant Hormone Therapy ~ 28 months on Casodex and Lupron.
Undetectable PSA.

Blog: www.caringbridge.org/visit/tonycrispino

Jerry L.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3072
   Posted 2/12/2011 6:12 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks.

I was just thinking that PSA rise before RP would be the same as BCR PSA rise. But, nothing with PC is consistent.

John T
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 4269
   Posted 2/12/2011 7:49 PM (GMT -6)   
From what I understand psa and its growth rate are genetic to the PC cells and don't change. With BCR it may be that some stray cells that were either higher or lower grade than the original tumor survived and these would grow at their own preprogramed genetic rate.
JohnT

BillyMac
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Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 1858
   Posted 2/12/2011 8:07 PM (GMT -6)   
I should think that PSA prior to treatment is made up of PSA leaked normally from your gland and PSA leaked from tumour cells either inside or outside of the gland. So there will be a baseline PSA directly related to the normal gland's size (let's say 4) and PSA related to the size of any tumour present (let's assume 3) ------ total PSA while the gland is intact is 7 (4+3). If the tumour size doubles the amount of the PSA the tumour portion releases is now 6 giving an overall total PSA of 10 (4+6). But although the tumour has actually doubled in size the total PSA hasn't and would result in an assumption that the doubling time was longer than actually was the case (before treatment). Once the prostate is removed then only tumour cells would be producing PSA so as the number of cells double (ie. tumour doubles in size) then so the resultant PSA produced would be double.
Bill

Post Edited (BillyMac) : 2/12/2011 6:16:04 PM (GMT-7)


Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 2/12/2011 8:13 PM (GMT -6)   
John,
I know that PSADT can be influenced by more than Gleason and growth rate. Tumor location and size are contributing factors. BillyMac has said it well...

Tony

Post Edited (TC-LasVegas) : 2/12/2011 6:30:13 PM (GMT-7)

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