Isn't it strange?

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Terry Herbert
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 92
   Posted 2/17/2011 12:37 AM (GMT -6)   
Regulars will know how often we say “Don’t make a decision on one PSA result. Look for a pattern.” That advice is rather ironic in the light of my latest result – 2.9 ng/ml. Is that a good or bad result?

2.9 ng/ml isn’t a bad reading for a man in his late 60s with a large gland, is it? The reading was 8.2 ng/ml in April last year - so that looks even better But the last one – in November last year was 2.1 – so that’s a massive increase. That’s not good, is it? It’s more than the recommended 0.75 ng/ml/year.

But I had three Zoladex shots – one in May last year and one in August and one in November. No wonder the PSA went down after that! And it did. These are my last four readings: April 2010: 8.2 ng/ml; August 2010: 2.3 ng/ml; November 2010: 2.1 ng/ml: February 2011: 2.9 ng/ml

What conclusions can be drawn from this set of figures? Pessimists will say (and they may well be right) that the lack of powerful response to the Zoladex shows that the disease is becoming hormone resistant, time to step up the therapy a notch or two: Optimists (count me as one at least) say you could throw a small blanket over those results and nothing is moving, so that’s more likely to be good news than bad.

So, what to do? Men who consistently advocate the ‘scientific’ approach and ‘evidence based’ medicine might find it difficult to find a scientific based answer, supported by good evidence, to that question.

Anyone with any ideas?
Diagnosed ‘96: Age 54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2: Gleason 7: No treatment. Jun '07 PSA 42.0 - Bony Metastasis: Aug '07: Intermittent ADT: PSA 2.3 Aug '10

It is a tragedy of the world that no one knows what he doesn’t know, and the less a man knows, the more sure he is that he knows everything. Joyce Carey

Fairwind
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 3781
   Posted 2/17/2011 12:53 AM (GMT -6)   
Terry, have you read the current pomegranate juice thread? But I bet you have been eating pomegranate for a long time..The results of these trials are pretty dramatic..

Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 2/17/2011 2:45 AM (GMT -6)   
Fairwind,
Terry didn't seem interested in pomegranates when he ordered up a steak and vino on his stop by Las Vegas...:-)

Terry, great results, buddy! Are you going to take on another hit of Zoladex?

Tony
Advanced Prostate Cancer at age 44 (I am 48 now)
pT3b,N0,Mx (original PSA was 19.8) EPE, PM, SVI. Gleason 4+3=7

Treatments:
Da Vinci Surgery ~ 2/17/2007
Adjuvant Radiation Therapy ~ IMRT Completed 8/07
Adjuvant Hormone Therapy ~ 28 months on Casodex and Lupron.
Undetectable PSA.

Blog: www.caringbridge.org/visit/tonycrispino

zufus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3149
   Posted 2/17/2011 6:46 AM (GMT -6)   
Terry you are collecting information for your own brain to process, you know plenty about PCa, and you have witnessed all kinds of PCa history stories and converstations, especially being part founder of www.yananow.net. You know what I think about all the so called self imposed 'expert-docs' and what alot of abstracts say or don't say within them. Granted there are some expert docs, but probably like Dr. Strum mentioned 10-15% of the PCa docs may fall into that category. Of course you go and get another psa to verify the last one, as Dr. Strum always says....verify any psa testings, it is all about history, velocity and proper types of assessments, but you have heard all that.

So, ideas.....you could try alot of things, like adding proscar/avodart or terazosin or casodex for a short while and monitor psa's very closely, to see if the added results are there. The key word is could, not should and you know all about such things anyway. Maybe you could add the estradiol patch or gel at the same time you are on Zoladex for further results and it would likely cancel the side effects of Zoladex in the process, but I am not sure of your risk factors for such, you would have to find out. Well there are a couple ideas. :-)

Just an fyi one of the guys in our local seminar support group is on year 14 now, failed on Lupron like 4-5 years ago now. Went to see Dr. Scholz and got onto Leukine injections, self injections he can do at home. He claims no side effects and has currently 4 years of excellent control and low psa. Good he has great insurance as it pays for that expensive stuff. But 4 years thus far on one drug at this type of juncture, is considered excellent in general, and without lousy side effects is even nicer.

I am confident you will analyze all your options, because I know you are that kind of guy. I wouldn't be surprized if you later come back with some fine answers. Do you look at the online PaactNewsletters? Good info on newest drugs and protocols for us patients.
Best to you and always mentioning yananow.net as a great source for information to all the brothern of PCa.

Terry Herbert
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 92
   Posted 2/17/2011 6:36 PM (GMT -6)   
Rob,

You are correct when you say that I have collected a good deal of informaiton over the years and that I am indeed sifting through it.

What my posts to this and other Forums is about is checking to see where the gaps are in my knowledge and how these might best be filled.

So, come one come all with anything that could help me on what may be a new stage in the journey. For once I'm not going to argue with anyone.
Diagnosed ‘96: Age 54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2: Gleason 7: No treatment. Jun '07 PSA 42.0 - Bony Metastasis: Aug '07: Intermittent ADT: PSA 2.3 Aug '10

It is a tragedy of the world that no one knows what he doesn’t know, and the less a man knows, the more sure he is that he knows everything. Joyce Carey

Fairwind
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 3781
   Posted 2/17/2011 6:47 PM (GMT -6)   
How about some Pomegranate Wine....Somebody needs to try this! We don't want to leave any stones unturned..No problem getting volunteers for trials.. smilewinkgrin yeah

keepingon
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 30
   Posted 2/18/2011 3:27 AM (GMT -6)   
I like the Pomegrante Wine suggestion, see ya off to the Liq. store.
Found out Jan. 07

g\7

psa 115

The doc said chemo or radiation was not an option.

Started Lupron to shrink it before surgery, did not work.

Radical prostentechomy Sept. 5.

Couldn't get it all, it was outside the sack and into lower lymph nodes.

Cathader removed about 3 months.

Incontinont for about 3 months

Peranial rectal absesses w/ drains for about 4 months

Continued Lupron until Oct. 08 .

Started losing weight. <194 to 170>

Now trying Zoladex, next shot in Dec. 18, then we will see what the PSA is, before deciding on future treatments.

Now in the T4 N1 stage.

Side effects:

Lupron=memory, tired all the time, joints and muscle aches, hot flashes.

Zoladex=memory, tired after doing something, left back rib cage is tender when inhaling, all joints and muscles below the waist ache, the worst is the right hip.

Went to the doc's today 12-18-08, stopped Zoladex today waitin on blood work to come back.

Blood work came back .07. now back on Zoladex for three months then we will see what happens.

PSA came back .08, back , see what happens in three more months.

Zoladex quit working., Now back on Lupron.

Had a tumer removed from back right hip.

Psa still rising.3-2-10

Still on Lupron.

The last doctors visit, he said He was suprised to see how well I'am doin. He also told me he had second thoughts of doin the surgery, because he thought I was too far gone, But I will show em.

5-5-10 PSA has doubled in the last year from .01 to .1

weight now 163#

Now having trouble with my right femar and knee we think it might be a side effect from Lupron

Had a bone scan, it came back good. Dark spot on my left side of my skull wich has gotten smaller since my last bone scan

PSA stayed the same .1 6-14-2010

PSA in July was .1.02

The doc is thinking about adding Casodex.

weight now 159#

eggbe
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 33
   Posted 2/18/2011 8:35 PM (GMT -6)   
So Terry as one of your fans I would say all your missing is the Dr. in front of your name, of all those I have read you know the most about PCa.   I'm wondering about your bony metastasis and how that has not seemed to be the threat we usually associate with it? 

James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4462
   Posted 2/19/2011 10:31 AM (GMT -6)   
Re: pomegranate Wine. I don't think it's commercially available outside of the middle east. I did look at home made, but it would take 2 years for the first batch, so that's too long, as some other will be along by then to take it's place. smilewinkgrin
James C. Age 63
Gonna Make Myself A Better Man tinyurl.com/28e8qcg
4/07: PSA 7.6, 7/07 Biopsy: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe, GS6
9/07: Nerve Sparing open RP, Path: pT2c, 110 gms., clear except:
Probable microscopic involvement-left apical margin -GS6
3 Years: PSA's .04 each test until 04/10-.06, 09/10-.09, 01/11-.09
ED-total-Bimix 30cc

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 2/19/2011 10:38 AM (GMT -6)   
James,

They sell Pomegranate Wine right here in Greenville, SC at a Mid-Eastern Resturant/Grocery store we frequent. Can pick it right off the shelf, seems like it was made in Turkey. I will look closer next time we go there.
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 Not taking it
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/23/10

James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4462
   Posted 2/19/2011 10:57 AM (GMT -6)   
Well, I guess we are just to deep under the Bible belt over here to have those exotic' possibly heathen' wines. But I'll check it out.

Know the difference between Methodists and Baptists in the liquor store? The Baptists don't speak to each other. wink
James C. Age 63
Gonna Make Myself A Better Man tinyurl.com/28e8qcg
4/07: PSA 7.6, 7/07 Biopsy: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe, GS6
9/07: Nerve Sparing open RP, Path: pT2c, 110 gms., clear except:
Probable microscopic involvement-left apical margin -GS6
3 Years: PSA's .04 each test until 04/10-.06, 09/10-.09, 01/11-.09
ED-total-Bimix 30cc

Fairwind
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 3781
   Posted 2/19/2011 12:34 PM (GMT -6)   
Prostate cancer must be unknown in Turkey...

lifeguyd
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 681
   Posted 2/20/2011 12:47 PM (GMT -6)   
Regarding pomegranate wine...
 
You can get an excellent pomegranate wine made by Bargetto Wines in Soquel, California.  Bargetto makes the finest fruit wines available anywhere in the world under the Chaucer label..  I like the blackberry (ollalieberry) best.
 
http://www.bargetto.com/

Post Edited (lifeguyd) : 2/20/2011 10:51:27 AM (GMT-7)

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