A supplement comment

New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> ]

compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7205
   Posted 3/5/2011 8:04 PM (GMT -6)   
It didn't help me one ^&%$# bit!!!
 
I am still doing the fish oil and vit. D-3 due to some vague reason that it might be helpful (and eating blueberries because I like them).
 
Mel
PSA-- 3/08--2.90; 8/09--4.01; 11/09--4.19 (PSAf: 24%), PCA3 =75 .Biopsy 11/30/09. Gleason 4+3. Stage: T1C. Current Age: 64. Surgery: Dr. Menon @Ford Hospital, 1/26/10. Pathology Report: G 4+3. Nodes: Clear. PNI: yes. SVI: No. EPE: yes. Pos. Margin: Yes-- focal-- 1 spot .5mm. 100% continent by 3/10. ED- yes.. PSA on 3/10/10-: 0.01. PSA on 6/21/10--0.02. 9/21/10--0.06; 1/4/11-0.13,3/1/11--0.27

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 3/5/2011 8:11 PM (GMT -6)   
Mel, and correct me if my memory is defective, you weren't on the added supplements you tried for very long before your BCR was confirmed. Not sure you fully expected any of it to help you directly, though of course you were hoping like many do.

You are 64 it says, and not reasonable to expect any serious change in things from dietary or supplement use after a lifetime of eating however you ate before.

I would always eat blueberries too, love them, and raspberries dearly. Just because they taste good. Florida strawberries are starting to hit our local stores, so will chowing on them as well.

David
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 Not taking it
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/23/10

compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7205
   Posted 3/5/2011 8:16 PM (GMT -6)   
David:
 
You are correct.
 
Mel

Grinnell86
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 265
   Posted 3/5/2011 8:28 PM (GMT -6)   
I don't know if they have done any good for me or not.  I have pretty much stayed at .16 since early December, when I started the pomegranate and green tea, and switched my diet to low-fat, spicy foods and lots and lots of salad.  That could be a coinkydink, but I really enjoy the flavored iced green tea, and the super-spicy food has actually killed my acid reflux.  I'll stay with it for now and see how it goes.
                             Cheers,
                                        Paul 
Age 47
PSA 10/09=4.60
Biopsy 12/09
Left side benign
Rt side 3of 4 cores positive, 70%
Initial Gleason 3+4
2nd Opinion Gleason 3+3
DaVinci surgery 2/16/10
Catheter removed 2/27/10
Post surgery PSA 5/10 <.05, 8/10 .12, 9/10 .12, 12/3/10 .16, 1/27/11 .15,
02/28/11 .17

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 3/5/2011 8:37 PM (GMT -6)   
But Mel, I sincerely understand the frustration and aggervation with your current situation. I am still annoyed, not at my surgery, but the ultimate results, in that I was downgraded from a 4+3 to a 3+4, and remained a Stage II, and yet had some quick BCR myself. For me, I don't think it was the one tiny positive margin as much as the velocity issue. Doctor tended to agree, for many men, a positve margin stays safe for years on end. Also, and not sure I will ever get over this point, but again, no one to complain to, lol. I didn't want SRT, been there done that with RT before as you know, was afraid it would get screwed up, afraid I would have severe problems, etc, but with quick BCR and a reduced odds of it working of 20%, still was the only curative card left. So against my gut feeling, I went for it. Despite of what I just said, I think most men would have too, as it was a shot for a cure. Had I known that they would screw it up and destroy my bladder forever and cause me over a year of pain, wouldn't have done it. Also, if I had known it would fail so soon, wouldn't have done it either. Hindsight is a wonderful tease, isn't it with these tough choices we PC patients have to make.

If my SRT had worked, or at least held the PC beast off for a few more years, then I could have said, well, despite the damage and side effects, etc, at least it worked. What happened to mine, of course is rare, but its still like this giant slap in the face. At times I am ok about it, and at others, I am very angry and depressed at the same time.

You have done so many things right in your journey, i.e. studying things to the ninth degree, asking mega questions, get lots of opinions, etc, so never blame yourself. I will keep religion out of this, but in the bigger picture of things in life, we both know that ultimately, things like getting cancer or being cured from our cancers, is out of our hands. All we can do is what all of us do here at HW, the best we can, with the resources we have, and with the help we can get. Beyond that, its out of our hands.

David
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 2/11 1.24
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10,

F8
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3806
   Posted 3/5/2011 8:43 PM (GMT -6)   
David -- i think if you had a different radiologist your SRT might have worked, and you would have only had temporary side effects .  i'm not trying to dredge up the past but your case is extreme.
 
ed
 
 
age: 55
PSA on 12/09: 6.8
gleason 3+4 = 7
HT, BT and IGRT
received 3rd and last lupron shot 9/14/10
2/8/11 PSA <.1, T= 6 ng/dl

BillyMac
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 1858
   Posted 3/5/2011 8:51 PM (GMT -6)   
F8 said...
David -- i think if you had a different radiologist your SRT might have worked, and you would have only had temporary side effects . i'm not trying to dredge up the past but your case is extreme.


ed


I am astounded that you could jump to a conclusion such as that. David's innards were nuked and burned to the extreme -------- good tissue was destroyed in the bombardment. What on earth would make you think that tumourous tissue would have survived along side wrecked healthy tissue. Perhaps you are unaware that there are times when surgery doesn't work (even with great path results and an the best surgeon): there are times when radiation doesn't work (either as a primary treatment or as salvage): and yes there are times when brachytherapy and HT don't work. And this can have nothing to do with the skill of those conducting the treatment. Perhaps you were not here prior to the commencement of David's current salvage therapy when there was a good deal of discussion concerning his bad reaction to being nuked for earlier bouts of different cancers.
Bill

Post Edited (BillyMac) : 3/5/2011 8:02:52 PM (GMT-7)


F8
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3806
   Posted 3/5/2011 8:59 PM (GMT -6)   
>>I am astounded that you could jump to a conclusion such as that. David's innards were nuked and burned to the extreme -------- good tissue was destroyed in the bombardment. What on earth would make you think that tumourous tissue would have survived along side wrecked healthy tissue.<<
 
the fact there was so much damage to healthy tissue has me questioning:  aim, equipment, competence.  this wasn't a simple matter of SRT not working.
 
ed
age: 55
PSA on 12/09: 6.8
gleason 3+4 = 7
HT, BT and IGRT
received 3rd and last lupron shot 9/14/10
2/8/11 PSA <.1, T= 6 ng/dl

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 3/5/2011 9:06 PM (GMT -6)   
thanks billy.

ed: the main problem with the damage, was that all my SRT was done on a dry bladder, since I had the suprapubic cath in place prior to, during, and post SRT, not only did my dr not have me drink fluid/water ahead of time, there was never anything in the bladder, as it automatically went through the bladder to the cath bag. That was the flaw. At any point, the radiation folks could have easily clamped off the cath, and had me drink water, or, syringed up the other port on the cath, and filled the bladder for safety reasons, then after zapping, released the clamp or the syringe.

that is what caused the damage to the bladder, i am no expert, but even if it had been administered correctly and my bladder hadnt been totaled in the process, it every well still might have failed as a curative treatment regardless. no way of every knowing that now. bladder is toast, on the stoma for life, and the srt failed.

and yes, it is an extreme case, hope to heaven no one else ever have to experience anything like that while undergoing either RT, seeding, or SRT.


David
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 2/11 1.24
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10,

BillyMac
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 1858
   Posted 3/5/2011 9:11 PM (GMT -6)   
F8 said...
>>I am astounded that you could jump to a conclusion such as that. David's innards were nuked and burned to the extreme -------- good tissue was destroyed in the bombardment. What on earth would make you think that tumourous tissue would have survived along side wrecked healthy tissue.<<


the fact there was so much damage to healthy tissue has me questioning: aim, equipment, competence. this wasn't a simple matter of SRT not working.



ed


Then I take it that it is your belief that failed surgery and failed radiation and/or any other treatment should be attributed solely to medical incompetence in cases where such treatment has failed. In David's case I have not heard mention that the equipment was dubious, nor the aim of the technicians in doubt. Rather, that their negligence in his treatment arose as a result of failing to take adequate precautions regarding "collateral" damage.

F8
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3806
   Posted 3/5/2011 11:03 PM (GMT -6)   
>>Then I take it that it is your belief that failed surgery and failed radiation and/or any other treatment should be attributed solely to medical incompetence in cases where such treatment has failed.<<
 
your words not mine.  look i don't care what you think and i don't want to argue with you.  gotta get back to dexter with my wife cool .
 
ed
age: 55
PSA on 12/09: 6.8
gleason 3+4 = 7
HT, BT and IGRT
received 3rd and last lupron shot 9/14/10
2/8/11 PSA <.1, T= 6 ng/dl

compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7205
   Posted 3/5/2011 11:19 PM (GMT -6)   
As I recall from David's prior comments, he let them know quite early that something wasn't right and it fell on deaf ears.
 
Anyway, it my understanding that this might be decided in the courts.
 
Mel

BillyMac
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 1858
   Posted 3/5/2011 11:27 PM (GMT -6)   
F8 said...
>>Then I take it that it is your belief that failed surgery and failed radiation and/or any other treatment should be attributed solely to medical incompetence in cases where such treatment has failed.<<


your words not mine. look i don't care what you think and i don't want to argue with you. gotta get back to dexter with my wife [img]/community/emoticons/cool.gif[/img] .



ed


I am not seeking to argue with you, rather trying to understand why you said what you said. I think you may be under some misunderstanding of how radiation when used as a therapy works. There is no precise road map of the outline and extent of areas of tumour before radiation begins and only that area is precisely hit. There can be a general idea in the case of an extra prostatic extension identified post surgery (unlike a bone metastasis which can be clearly seen on a bone scan and zapped). Otherwise it is more of a general bombardment to the prostate bed area and often local lymph nodes. Tumour cells, because of their altered DNA are innately more liable to fatal damage than healthy tissue and also have a markedly reduced ability to repair themselves ---- thus they tend to tend to die off while normal tissue tends to scar and repair. There is always collateral damage to healthy tissue and recovery varies from person to person as does recovery from any trauma.
Bill

Sancarlos
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 242
   Posted 3/6/2011 12:39 PM (GMT -6)   
To get back to the topic, here is a pretty good article on prostate cancer and supplements.

http://www.prostate-cancer.org/education/nutrition/Pinski_DietarySupplements.html

Unfortunately the article does not address pomegranate, nor for that matter Vitamin K2. But it does show that there are some serious people out there who believe this line of research is worth pursuing.

In addition to a multi-vitamin I personally take a number of supplements, including green tea extract, Calcium, Vitamin D3 and Vitamin K2, and am considering adding pomegranate to the mix. Whether or not these supplements do anything to slow or prevent the growth of prostate cancer is less important to me than enhancing my overall health on a day to day basis, in conjunction with a good diet and sound exercise program.

Sancarlos
Age 66, PC diagnosed 7/2009 at age 65
Stage: T2c, Gleason: 9 (4 + 5), 6 of 6 cores positive
Bone, CAT and MIR scans negative

Treatment: brachytherapy (103 palladium), 100 gy, 11/2009 + IMRT on Novalis, 45 gy, 3/2010 + ADT3 (Lupron + Casodex+Avodart)

PSA: 7/2009, At time of diagnosis -- 11.9
10/2009 -- 5.0 ; 12/2009 -- 0.56 ; 5/2010 -- 0.15
8/9/2010 -- 0.06 ; 11/2010 -- 0.013; 3/25/2011-- 0.005

Post Edited (Sancarlos) : 3/6/2011 1:51:39 PM (GMT-7)


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 3/6/2011 1:00 PM (GMT -6)   
Billy - I think we woiuld agree, that in the simplest of terms, its an educated and hopeful guess at best, in determining the SRT treatment plan. It's hoped that it is in the prostate bed and/or pelvic areas, but it can't be seen or scanned in most cases. Probably why SRT doesnt have a hight sucess rate to begin.

san carolos - if it helps your general health condition, even aside from cancer, then its a good thing regardless. you have to do what is right for you

david
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 2/11 1.24
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10,
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
Forum Information
Currently it is Monday, June 25, 2018 2:22 AM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 2,974,906 posts in 326,221 threads.
View Active Threads


Who's Online
This forum has 161313 registered members. Please welcome our newest member, AlexHannah23.
255 Guest(s), 1 Registered Member(s) are currently online.  Details
JayPoppa