Spiritual Needs and Cancer

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Tony Crispino
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Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 3/7/2011 6:06 PM (GMT -6)   
This post is not for everybody here and if you do not subscribe to spiritual needs then please note that I intend this post for those who do. I certainly do not mean for this discussion to offend anyone but it's a real topic for many here. I believe in the "integrative" approach to oncology and palliative care. This means more than treating a patient's tumor but rather treating mind, body, and spirit.

The link below was sent to me by my friend Kathy Meade who is a wonderful lady committing much of her time to being a prostate cancer advocate. She lost her husband to the disease and has two son's she'll do anything to help them avoid that journey.

The following article was in the Huffington Post and it touches on the spiritual needs of those who are facing death in their illness.

www.huffingtonpost.com/kenneth-j-doka/spiritual-needs-of-the-dy_b_831123.html

At this time I will reflect on what a friend who is a member of the Society of Integrative Oncology in essence told me:

Spirituality is not to be confused with religiosity, but religiosity can play that role in addressing a patient's needs spiritually. To treat a person's spiritual needs requires understanding the patients personal beliefs and tailoring a support mechanism that fits that patients needs. ...it is by this means some patients can have their sense of control restored after having it taken away by their diagnosis and prognostic circumstances.

I might be off a bit on the verbatim, but I have the slides from his presentation on the matter. If anyone would like to read more on the matter here is his website:

www.integrativeoncology-essentials.com

Or more specifically:
www.integrativeoncology-essentials.com/menu/topics/topics/spirituality.html

Here you will find official links regarding spirituality by the American Cancer Society, the National Cancer Institute, and more...

Peace,

Tony
Advanced Prostate Cancer at age 44 (I am 48 now)
pT3b,N0,Mx (original PSA was 19.8) EPE, PM, SVI. Gleason 4+3=7

Treatments:
Da Vinci Surgery ~ 2/16/2007
Adjuvant Radiation Therapy ~ IMRT Completed 8/07
Adjuvant Hormone Therapy ~ 28 months on Casodex and Lupron.
Undetectable PSA.

Blog: www.caringbridge.org/visit/tonycrispino

Post Edited (TC-LasVegas) : 3/7/2011 9:56:19 PM (GMT-7)


Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 3/7/2011 6:26 PM (GMT -6)   
I noticed that the link to the Nation Cancer Institute is broken at Dr. L's. website. I have the correct link here and I just sent it to him, too...

www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/supportivecare/spirituality/patient

Tony

Post Edited (TC-LasVegas) : 3/7/2011 7:29:09 PM (GMT-7)


Ed C. (Old67)
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Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 2458
   Posted 3/7/2011 7:35 PM (GMT -6)   
Tony,
Thank you for your post. I pray every night for myself and all my friends and relatives.

clocknut
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Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 2667
   Posted 3/7/2011 8:01 PM (GMT -6)   
Tony, spirituality and/or religion played an important part in my dealings with prostate cancer and my preparation for surgery.
 
I was feeling pretty depressed after being diagnosed and got my hands on a liittle book by the late Cardinal Joseph Benardiin called "A Gift of Peace." Bernardin died from pancreatic cancer, and in the book he chronicles his journey and examines his suffering, trying to put it into a spiritual context where suffering has meaning.  In the Christian tradition, God's own son suffered unimagineable pain, so for the Christian religious person, one's suffering can be viewed in the context that God's own Son showed us the value of pain and suffering in our spiritual journey.  In that sense, we are never alone in our pain.
 
The other spiritual event that brought me great relief was when I received the sacrament called the anointing of the sick.  We're familiar with priests giving dying people the last rites, but these days the true intent of the anointing is to provide spiritual strength and conceivably bodily healing.  All I can say is that after being anointed, I was completely at peace and ready for surgery and whatever might follow.
 
It also gave me great peace of mind to know that I was on "prayer lists" not only in my own midwestern parish, but in churches as far away as  Sydney, Australia.
 
I'm not making any claims for any of these things, just sharing some facts that brought me a wonderful sense of spiritual calm, replacing the depression and fear with which I had been struggling. 

Post Edited (clocknut) : 3/7/2011 7:43:30 PM (GMT-7)


lennybob
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2010
Total Posts : 99
   Posted 3/7/2011 8:02 PM (GMT -6)   

Tony,

Thank you for posting this. I agree with what the article says about not only meeting the physical needs of cancer patients, but caring for a person’s Spiritual needs is important as well. I have an amazing network of doctors, friends, forum buddies, and prayer partners that have helped me tremendously with this crazy disease. It seems as though the Lord always sends me just the right thing or just the right person to support me exactly when I need it. Your post and this article are what I needed today.

Thanks again,

Lynn


Age 53...51 when diagnosed.
February/09 PSA 11...GP discoverd during yearly physical...referred to Urologist
Biopsy found cancer, Gleason score of 6.
July 2009...Nerve-Sparing open radical prostatectomy.
Doing very well...only issue is ED and that is getting better.

daveshan
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 363
   Posted 3/7/2011 8:28 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the link,
Dave in Durango CO (Spiritual agnostic ;-)

davidg
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 4093
   Posted 3/7/2011 8:32 PM (GMT -6)   
when it comes to atheism, I make Christopher Hitchens look like a novice. Curiously, Hitchens himself is battling a brutal form of cancer and is now often asked if spirituality has finally entered his realm of thinking. He says no, but that he's open to surprises until the end.

And that is how spirituality entered my path when i found out I had cancer and expected the worse. It's not that I started believing in God or anything, but I certainly started to hope in any surprise.When people said they would pray for me, I didn't get offended as I would have prior to learnign I had cancer, I was actually grateful they cared or seemed to care.

And of course, being really young with young children kind of forces you to take a second look at your own perspective on life, longevity, relationships with loved ones and stuff like that. That in itself is somewhat spiritual whether you can believe in supernatural beings or not.

goodlife
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 2691
   Posted 3/7/2011 9:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Tony,

I must admit that I am not man enough to handle PC alone. Without the spiritual side of things, however we may define it, I would probably be a blithering idiot sitting alone in a darkened room.

How we can ignore the importance of the spiritual side of PC is beyond me.

Goodlife

Cajun Jeff
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4106
   Posted 3/8/2011 10:17 AM (GMT -6)   
Tony, thanks for the post. Yes I walk with him every day and he has helped me through many difficult times.

Cajun Jeff
9/08 PSA 5.4 referred to Urologist
9/08 Biopsy: GS 3+4=7 1 positive core in 12 1% cancer core
10/08 Nerve-Sparing open radicalSurgery Path Report Downgrade 3+3=6 GS Stage pT2c margins clea
r3 month: PSA <0.1
19th month: PSA <0.1
2 year PSA <0.1
Only issue at this time is ED but getting better

Ziggy9
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 981
   Posted 3/8/2011 10:25 AM (GMT -6)   
Zen9 said...
Since a Moderator has waived Rule 11 for the moment -

I have found great insight - hence comfort - in Tsongkhapa's Lam Rim Chen Mo. Also Nagarjuna's Mulamadhyamikakarika.

Zen9


A careful examination of the rules will show that this discussion is a violation but not rule 11...

Rule 2. No discussion of medical marijuana use.

Post Edited By Moderator (TC-LasVegas) : 3/8/2011 9:59:28 AM (GMT-7)


James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4462
   Posted 3/8/2011 10:30 AM (GMT -6)   
Ziggy, no you may not assume such, and you very well know it.... smilewinkgrin
James C. Age 63
Gonna Make Myself A Better Man tinyurl.com/28e8qcg
4/07: PSA 7.6, 7/07 Biopsy: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe, GS6
9/07: Nerve Sparing open RP, Path: pT2c, 110 gms., clear except:
Probable microscopic involvement-left apical margin -GS6
3 Years: PSA's .04 each test until 04/10-.06, 09/10-.09, 12/10-.09, 02/11-.08
ED-total-Bimix 30cc

James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4462
   Posted 3/8/2011 10:39 AM (GMT -6)   
Ok, guys, for what ever reason, this discussion of spirituality has swerved into professions of faith, mostly Christian faith. I view it as 2 seperate subjects, but evidently some of you see it differently or have decided to take advantage of this thread. My personal beliefs are such, personal, and I do try to keep it seperate from this Forum and what I have to do to keep this forum healthy and within the rules. So, Rule 11, let's drop the public professions, the agitiating and the general course this is taking and either return to the subject, general spirituality, or don't post at all in this thread.

11. No posts of an overtly political or religious nature OR posts promoting advocacy of particular personal, medical, legal, religious, political, or non-profit causes. The forums are intended for offering mutual personal support. Debating controversial subjects should be taken elsewhere. Limited religious references are allowed (ie. "my prayers are with you" or a brief quote as part of a larger post), but the forums should not be used to convert others.
James C. Age 63
Gonna Make Myself A Better Man tinyurl.com/28e8qcg
4/07: PSA 7.6, 7/07 Biopsy: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% involved, left lobe, GS6
9/07: Nerve Sparing open RP, Path: pT2c, 110 gms., clear except:
Probable microscopic involvement-left apical margin -GS6
3 Years: PSA's .04 each test until 04/10-.06, 09/10-.09, 12/10-.09, 02/11-.08
ED-total-Bimix 30cc

Ziggy9
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 981
   Posted 3/8/2011 10:45 AM (GMT -6)   
We all knew where this thread was headed. This is not the first time Tony has tried to introduce religion here. Every "spiritual" threads second post is always about someones christianity and it evolves into more of that.

That's why there is a rule 11.

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 3/8/2011 10:55 AM (GMT -6)   
This is why I nervously wrote on my answer:

"Interesting topic you opened, but glad to see it. Most of my many posts are void of any religious or spritural input, on purpose, as to not violate forum rule #11. It could be a slipperly slope once started".

I was a bit afraid it might open a flood gate. Definitely the last thing on earth we need to argue or feud about.

David
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 2/11 1.24
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10,

Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 3/8/2011 10:56 AM (GMT -6)   
Guys,
The purpose of this post was to get the article and the links out there for those who might want the information. There is no intent for there to be a discussion on religion and it is clearly stated above that spirituality and religion are not necessarily the same. There was no waiver of rule 11.

Here are examples of spirituality:

> Prayer (based on ones beliefs)
> Music
> Meditation
> Yoga
> belief is a meaning to which we are all connected through.

Medical marijuana is off topic here and the posts will be edited.

Tony

Post Edited (TC-LasVegas) : 3/8/2011 10:00:00 AM (GMT-7)


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 3/8/2011 10:59 AM (GMT -6)   
Sounds reasonable to me, Tony, don't see how that could be viewed as offensive by any one of faith or no faith at all.

In fairness, I am taking down my own original post to your thread, as though it was innocent enough in nature and intent, seems like the wrong kind of answer in general.

David
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 2/11 1.24
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10,

Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 3/8/2011 11:05 AM (GMT -6)   
There should be no reason for anybody to feel threatened by this post. As I said above this post is not for everybody. But the topic is in the news frequently and there is "official" information available at the sites linked.

If anyone thinks that I had any other intent than to share the information so folks can get to it then I can't help you. I will only state that you are mistaken.

Again there was no intent to offend anyone...

Tony
Advanced Prostate Cancer at age 44 (I am 48 now)
pT3b,N0,Mx (original PSA was 19.8) EPE, PM, SVI. Gleason 4+3=7

Treatments:
Da Vinci Surgery ~ 2/16/2007
Adjuvant Radiation Therapy ~ IMRT Completed 8/07
Adjuvant Hormone Therapy ~ 28 months on Casodex and Lupron.
Undetectable PSA.

Blog: www.caringbridge.org/visit/tonycrispino

Ziggy9
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 981
   Posted 3/8/2011 11:31 AM (GMT -6)   
Zen9 said...
Ziggy9,


What in the world did my post have to do with medical marijuana?



There is nothing in my post or in either of the works that I reference pertaining to marijuana, medical or otherwise.



Please explain.



Zen9


Your post had nothing to do with medical marijuana. The original post somewhat tongue in cheek just took your comment on Tony waiving rule 11 as an excuse to talk about the "spirituality" of MMJ here in a state where it's legal and beneficial for many who are in pain or easing the nausea of those undergoing chemo. James C saw it for what it was a somewhat satirical comment on this thread. But it seems like Tony came back and deleted all of it making your confusion understandable.

So what goes Tony are you having flashbacks with reintroducing religion (yeah yeah I know spirituality. You've tried this before) and your current heavy handed censorship like 2008?

Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 3/8/2011 11:54 AM (GMT -6)   
No on the flashbacks.

You and I and about five different moderators and the site owner have a different recollection of 2008, Ziggy. But it's in the past and I will leave it there. As for the edit above it was not in spite. The above information may be valuable to those who would like to have it.

Obviously you are not interested in it.

Zen,
I have no issues with anyones post as long as it is peaceful and not a debate. I knew this post was on the border from the get go. So if we can't discuss the topic civilly then I will lock it.

Tony

Post Edited (TC-LasVegas) : 3/8/2011 10:57:35 AM (GMT-7)


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 3/8/2011 12:04 PM (GMT -6)   
Zen, your non-Christian beliefs and remarks should be equally welcomed in my opinion. I respect your views, and all should be tolerent of anyone's spiritural, religious, philosphical, or non-belief views. Fair is fair.
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 2/11 1.24
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10,

medved
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 1096
   Posted 3/8/2011 12:26 PM (GMT -6)   
Seems to me a real stretch to contend that a message about "GOD AND HIS SON" is not "overtly religious", as that term is used in Rule 11. Among other things, we should keep in mind that many people do not believe in God, and that even among those who do believe in God, many do not believe that he (or she) had a son. I did not see anything in Tony's original post or the linked article that was "overtly religious" (though it might be close to the line), but Trepidation's response clearly crossed the line, and was obviously intended to do so.

Putt
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 154
   Posted 3/8/2011 12:35 PM (GMT -6)   
The easist way to get flamed on this forum is to mention politics or religion.  Good intentions (even by a moderator) will cause a reaction that will eventually result a padlock on the subject.  So why bother in the first place?

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 3/8/2011 12:41 PM (GMT -6)   
medved,

and in fairness, trepid's post should be edited of all such content. i deleted my own post, just to be fair - and in mine, at least i tried to stay open and inclusive to all those of faith or non-faith. good reason to have a rule 11 in my opinion.

david
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 2/11 1.24
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10,

Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 8128
   Posted 3/8/2011 12:50 PM (GMT -6)   
medved,
There's a few that must have misunderstood my post intention so no fault at Trep as he is a new member and probably does not understand the rule in place but he probably does now... You can fault me as it's a borderline subject but one that others can relate to and is on topic with the full scope of dealing with cancer for many. I felt that by providing where someone can find this information that was good enough. And for anyone facing more dire circumstances in their families the article may be helpful. There is no intent to rally up anyone of any belief.

I hope that anyone reading the original post can make the distinction between making information available and wanting to start a religious conversation which is not an easy topic in a forum like this. We have several who seemingly take offense to this type of post and I think that it's unfortunate but I respect it.

@Putt,
Your comments are appropriate. Why do it? Because even with the padlock there are folks who will get information that's important for them and not easily found for the obvious reasons.

Tony
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