3rd catheter in urine retention

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yobiks
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 39
   Posted 3/19/2011 3:52 PM (GMT -6)   
I could use some advice on this one-----I had the first catheter out  9 days post surgery. Found I couldn't pee and at 10:00 pm went to the er (what a zoo at night) where my uro met me and reinsterted another. he found no obstructions when setting me up. Kept that catheter in for 6 days and took it out again. Had a weak stream at first but the following day when I tried standing up had excellent+ flow. I estimated it was about 20% better than presurgery and was very happy about that. That lasted about another 24 hours and I was back in the same boat again- couldn't pee. Bailed to the er after 7 hours and did not get it back in for another2 hours- I was definitely in some pain. The uro that was covering for my guy said he thought it was inflamation closing off my urethra or something else. He said 2 more weeks on the catheter. Will be calling my guy monday. Anybody with similar results? 
age 56
sept 28 2010
psa 2.1 ,t2b
jan10 '11 gleason 3+3 t2b
open rp scheduled march 1 2011
Both nerve bundles spared
post surgery path: t2c gleason 6
neg margins neg lymph nodes
organ contained adenocarcinoma

compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7270
   Posted 3/19/2011 6:31 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm surprised David (Purgatory) hasn't responded by now.
 
He as been assigned the role of Katheter King here on HW
 
Mel

SubicSquid
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 252
   Posted 3/19/2011 7:15 PM (GMT -6)   
I had stricture(scarring) problems preventing urination resulting in two dilations and one surgery to fix the problem. But, I sure didn't block up as fast as you seem to be. Hopefully the two weeks on the catheter will help solve the problem. Squid.
*Age 63, PSA July 2009 .66; Biopsy: 2 of 12 cores positive, Gleason 3 + 5
*open Surgery 10/22/09
*Post Surgery Biopsy Gleason 4 + 3; 2 positive margins
*03/11/10 - Bladder neck surgery for stricture
*PSA - 30 day/.07, 90 day/<.1, 180 day/.21
*07/27/10 - IGRT done - 39 zaps, 70 gys
*10/07/10 - 90 day post IGRT PSA <.1.
*01/20/11 - 180 day post IGRT PSA <.1.

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25394
   Posted 3/19/2011 8:43 PM (GMT -6)   
yobiks,

sorry for the delay, been out of town a lot today.

yes, unfortunately, i am the king of catheters, both foley and suprapubic. in the first 2 years of my pc journey, i spent a total of 1 1/2 years on caths, and was on a total of 21 of them. its possible you might suffer in a small pool of men, post surgery, of 2-4%, who end up having chronic stricture issues. very much like subic squid reported above. he was lucky that his ended fairly quickly. mine never did. i ended up with 6 operations to clear strictures, plus 2 emergency dialations (would never wish that on you or any one else). my doctor had never seen anyone's bladder neck close up as fast mine did, in one case, it was 100% closed 30 days after a laser guided day surgery.

if your continues, dont be surprised if your uro doesnt want to put a scope up your weiner, and take a good look around. hopefully it is jus swelling, and not a true stricture. you know by now what a bloated bladder can feel like, and probably know by now that there are worse things than wearing a cath.

in my case, i had radiation for a failed surgery, and the radiation destroyed my bladder and bladder neck, i had to have a bladder by-pass surgery, and now urinate through a stoma into a bag.

please keep in touch. trust your blockages dont turn into an epic adventure like mine, lol.

good luck

david in sc
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 2/11 1.24
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10,

yobiks
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 39
   Posted 3/20/2011 12:39 AM (GMT -6)   
I guess the good news is that my blockage seems to have happened fast. Hopefully my uro will have some ideas come monday. Till then I can wait and drain my bag. Thanks again
age 56
sept 28 2010
psa 2.1 ,t2b
jan10 '11 gleason 3+3 t2b
open rp scheduled march 1 2011
Both nerve bundles spared
post surgery path: t2c gleason 6
neg margins neg lymph nodes
organ contained adenocarcinoma

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25394
   Posted 3/20/2011 2:20 PM (GMT -6)   
yobiks,

as much as i hate catheters and all things related catheter, i found out that severe blockages were much worse than having a cath long term. kind of lesser of evils.

david
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 2/11 1.24
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10,

yobiks
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 39
   Posted 3/20/2011 5:21 PM (GMT -6)   
That second time in the er was pure torture. The dilaudid only took the very edge off. Don't know what the exact plan is this time but I am definitely going to be conservative. You never know what you will find in an er- different people different shifts different priorities.

Sam-the-Man
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2011
Total Posts : 15
   Posted 3/21/2011 5:30 PM (GMT -6)   
Guys,

Can I relate a er .. 'funny' story without being too offhand / morbid / not-funny ? I don't want to upset the veterans on this thread with my superciliousness, so apologies beforehand if I do upset anyone.

OK. Here goes. Last summer I was on holoday a couple of hundred miles from home. Little backwater place. I did the journey on a single tank (no getting out to pee) and ate junk food all that day. Then I went to a pub and had three pints of local ale. Most enjoyable. It is great to be able to hold one's bladder like that. Went back to the hotel for a pee and noticed a few red-ish dribbles but not much more. Nothing I could do except worry, and go to bed. I have never had a catheter since 1996. This was new to me.

3am and nature calls, so I get up and go to the batchrrom. Nothing. On top of that is the horrible sensation that I am next in that "Alien" movie to give birth through a split belly. I phone for a taxi to go to the nearest A&E (accident and emergency) which is a 30 minute drive.

Get to the backwater A&E and assessed by a sleepy nurse. By this time I am literally "busting". She goes off and comes back with a catheter and puts it on the tray next to the trolley which by now I am squirming in agony on.

The nurse says to me "I can do male catheter, but not if you've had prostrate cancer. You'll have to wait to see the doctor. He should be here soon"

Did she say "soon" ? I have never known time pass so slowly. In fact a definition of time should include an index of real or perceived subjective pain. The greater the pain, the longer the ticks on the universal chronometer.

I honestly don't know if it was 30 seconds or thirty minutes. All I was aware of was this gross bladder pain and a tiny mocking voice in my head that kept repeating this prayer that I had read on a display in a urology museum cabinet. It was at the Hunterian Museum in Lincolns Inn Field, London a year or so before.

"Lord, when though takest me, let it be not through the bladder" [ This was the "Prayer of the 18th century Barber-Surgeons of London" written beneath some instruments for extracting bladder stones - without anaesthetic ].

They had a lot of experience extracting uroliths (bladder-kidney stones) and were well aware of the comparative pain that men died with / of / from. I was begining to understand the meaning of 'death before PK's' -- morphine and so on.

Perhaps it happened as soon as the nurse was out of sight - my sense of time was distorted by pain. I turned to the packaged catheter, tore off the protective paper, spat on the business end and gently worked it up my urethra. It seemed quite natural even though I had never done it before. [ I had removed a cather years ago in 1996 after getting fed-up with it for three weeks post-surgery, but that was the limit of my experience.] Anyhow, it worked & the only problem was I had neglected to turn the valves on this blasted contraption off; so my urine went all over the trolley and then the floor.

When the doctor finally arrived he tried to do the procedure with a gigantic catheter (I mean 5mm diameter at least) . He got it up so far, but I wouldn't let him push it past the ancient anastomisis which I guessed was a natural place to say " .. enough is enough {sucker. .. you've had your break, now let me have mine} .. ". In his clinical notes / report to my uro he wrote "Unable to catheterise patient, however he has managed to urinate successfully today".

If that isn't a case of CYA I don't know what is. Don't blame him really. Take home message is: next time I have to go to A&E (never I hope) I will invent a false name and address, just to avoid the complications of being a very long term survivor of a chronic & terminal disease. They (the hospital staff) were I believe too scared to touch me, until the doctor had woken up and got dressed and read up on catheterising prostate patients. Had I not acted out of initiative hours before, I could well have joined my friends in urolith purgatory.

Sam
'Prostrate men' need helping to their feet
Not sending back to sleep .................

______________________________

'95 PSA > 20, LUTS + serious misdiagnosis: 1st urologist T0N0M0="unremarkable".'96 PSA>50: second urologist T3N1M0, G4{3core}="incurable". '96 RP (third urologist LN+SV, GS3+4); '98 RT. Yeary IAS+TRT Highly variable PSA & still kicking. Pro-androgen research ISBN 9780954993511

DJBearGuy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 824
   Posted 3/21/2011 6:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Yobiks,

Sorry I haven't been by sooner; I was out of town. I had an experience very similar to yours. Except that I was OK after the second catheter. When it was time to remove the second one, I asked if I could have one to take home to self-catheterize (like Sam!) in case of emergency. But they were worried about healing tissues being weak. They also took an X-ray with dye injected into the bladder, cystogram I think? which showed no leaks. And they told me to take ibuprofen to keep the inflammation down. I was pretty worried for the next 24 hours, but things came out fine yeah

But while I was plugged up and my wife was driving me to the hospital, the pain was making me crazy. Even though it was very quiet at 2 am, everything sounded really loud. I had to ask my wife not to talk. Every little bump on the road was so painful that I held myself off the car seat all the way there.

DJ
Diagnosis at 53. PSA 2007 about 2; 2008 4.3
Biopsy Sept 2008: 6 of 12 cores pos; Gleason 4+3 = 7
CT & Bone scan neg
Da Vinci at City of Hope Dec 8, 2008
Rad prostatectomy & lymph node dissection
Cath out on 7th day, in on 8th day, out again 14th day after neg cystogram
Path: pT2c; lymph nodes neg; margins involv; 41 grams,
PSA 1/08, 4/09,7/09, 10/09, 11/09,2/10 <0.01, 10/10 0.1, 2/11 0.08

pigeonflyer
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 85
   Posted 3/22/2011 8:11 PM (GMT -6)   
hey yobikes sorry for the spelling, but with being pluged up and having the surgen diagonise the problem you have i would recomend seeing another uroligist. their insight(the new uroligest) bypasses what the surgen did and will start a new outlook on the situiation and a new way to aproach the situayion. i been where you are at ,another surgen ,2 weeks, and i was pissing again. my original surgen was too proud to admitt to a problem and never looked pass filling my bladder with water seeing if i could piss and send me home with a cather. case closed on my part. my number is 6019160828. ill disscusse it with you and you can ask david, purgatory vettmam jeff if im for real call me. neil, been there done that.
50 years
da vinci on 9/28/09
gleeson 3+3
psa before surgery 5.1 oct/09 psa 0.06
cather out on oct 5, back in on oct 5
two more trys for cather out, still in .
cather out nov. 13/09
cystocope nov.13/09 , cather back in , out again on nov 15/o9, was taught to self cath, still pluged with scar tissue but no cather. have to self cath 6 to 8 times a day. scar tissue removed on jan. 11 2010. no cathing and totally dry. 

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25394
   Posted 3/22/2011 8:14 PM (GMT -6)   
Neil? Long time no see. Good to hear from you. You need to update your stats for sure, to see how you are doing.

Yes, I will vouch for pigeonflyer - neil, he's a good guy.

david in sc
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 2/11 1.24
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10,

pigeonflyer
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 85
   Posted 3/22/2011 8:18 PM (GMT -6)   
thanks david yobikes needs to talk to me but other than that im doing fine. cant wait to get to jeffs for the gettogether neil
50 years
da vinci on 9/28/09
gleeson 3+3
psa before surgery 5.1 oct/09 psa 0.06
cather out on oct 5, back in on oct 5
two more trys for cather out, still in .
cather out nov. 13/09
cystocope nov.13/09 , cather back in , out again on nov 15/o9, was taught to self cath, still pluged with scar tissue but no cather. have to self cath 6 to 8 times a day. scar tissue removed on jan. 11 2010. no cathing and totally dry. 

pigeonflyer
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 85
   Posted 3/22/2011 8:23 PM (GMT -6)   
hey david go to chat you can get on neil
50 years
da vinci on 9/28/09
gleeson 3+3
psa before surgery 5.1 oct/09 psa 0.06
cather out on oct 5, back in on oct 5
two more trys for cather out, still in .
cather out nov. 13/09
cystocope nov.13/09 , cather back in , out again on nov 15/o9, was taught to self cath, still pluged with scar tissue but no cather. have to self cath 6 to 8 times a day. scar tissue removed on jan. 11 2010. no cathing and totally dry. 

yobiks
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 39
   Posted 3/24/2011 1:11 PM (GMT -6)   
Getlemen- Thanks ever so much for your concern. Talked to my uro monday and he now wants me to wait until 4/14 before attempting to pull the foley catheter again. I asked him about strictures and he said no because they take more time. My initial time to healing of the anastamosis was 9 days. In my path report there is comment on excission of the bladder margin. This came up benign but I am beginning to wonder if this is part of the problem.
    Just got done talking to Neil- This website is a powerful resource! It sounds like he is right. My symptoms are the same as what he experienced. It is probably some tissue at the anastamosis floating into the urethra when I try to pee. My surgeon is going to use a cytoscope to check out the anastamosis for excess tissue. He already told me he suspected something of the sort. He thought it might involve one of the stitches and might resolve itself once the stitch dissolves. I am so grateful for the support.
age 56
sept 28 2010
psa 2.1 ,t2b
jan10 '11 gleason 3+3 t2b
open rp scheduled march 1 2011
Both nerve bundles spared
post surgery path: t2c gleason 6
neg margins neg lymph nodes
organ contained adenocarcinoma
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