Cyrotherapy for Prostate Cancer - suggested to my neighbor

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Purgatory
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Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 4/5/2011 7:28 PM (GMT -6)   
What do you guys think about cyrotherapy as a primary treatment for PC?  This was suggested by my neighbor's urologist, since his doctor is ruling out surgery or radiation as a primary treatment due to the guy's previous radiation and surgeries.
 
I can't find much good info or data on it.  Doesn't seem to be much in the way of studies on it, or long term results.  I did see some risky side effects that could happen.
 
I think his doctor is suggesting starting with HT, and then perhaps using cyrotherapy after x amount of time.
 
Does this sound like a reasonable approach, or is it out there?
 
David in SC

compiler
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Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7203
   Posted 4/5/2011 7:41 PM (GMT -6)   
I think one guy in our local support group had it and it went well. But that's all I know.
 
Mel

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 4/5/2011 8:18 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks, hoping to get some details on the subject, not sure if anyone here went that route.
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 2/11 1.24
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10,

BillyMac
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Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 1858
   Posted 4/5/2011 8:52 PM (GMT -6)   
David,
Alas the ol' memory may be not as sharp as it once was but I do remember Ziggy9 mentioning his focal cryosurgery. Here is a link to one of his posts where he mentions it. He was here today so hopefully he will pick up on your thread and fill you in.

www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=1724583

don826
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Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 1010
   Posted 4/5/2011 9:43 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi David,
 
There is a doctor in Hilton Head who has some measure of expertise in cryo for PCa. I just cannot recall his name at the moment. Cryo can be done as a focal therapy as well as an ablative therapy. There is a practice in Colorado that is doing the focal therapy. I exchanged emails with them recently regarding application as a salvage treatment. Seems thier advantage was in the imaging technique used to locate the cancer though I never quite understood what that technique is.
 
Here is the contact info at the Colorado site.
 
Paul Arangua
Professional Research Assistant (PRA)
Department of Urologic Oncology
University of Colorado Health Sciences Center
Anschutz Cancer Pavilion
1665 Aurora Ct. Suite 1004
P.O. Box 6510, Mail Stop F-710
Aurora, CO 80045
Tel.720-848-0922
Cell.720-365-8100
PAUL.ARANGUA@ucdenver.edu
 
Good luck to your friend and you.
Don

Squirm
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Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 744
   Posted 4/5/2011 10:47 PM (GMT -6)   
Has your neighbor went for a second opinion?

Postop
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 385
   Posted 4/5/2011 11:09 PM (GMT -6)   
I haven't read much about cryosurgery. This is the best summary that I could find:

www.auanet.org/resources.cfm?id=458

zufus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3149
   Posted 4/6/2011 4:32 AM (GMT -6)   
Cry-o-therapy  (cryotherapy)  shakehead
 
Inventor:  Dr. Fred Lee  (Crittenton Hosp-Rochester, Michigan)-still living with PCa
Assistant like student at that time: Dr. Duke Bahn  (same hospital)-now in California
 
Tidbit: originally a total pioneering concept, freezing prostate tissue to destroy PCa, it became necessary to monitor the unfreezing and watch out for the surrounding tissue and such (yada-yada), no know tool originally existed....they actually had to use a meat thermometer in the beginning.  skull  
 
It is another method to destroy the PCa enemy, Dr. Duke Bahn and some others you can find are the experts in this method, focal cryo can be done as noted. Presumeably if you can do cryo then one should likely be possible candidate for HIFU, also.  :-)   
Cryo statistically is not as great as surgery or radiations and carries some side effects to consider. You will have swelling and need a butt donut pillow as noted by others whom been there and done that, sitting for awhile after it is done is  problematic, until the swelling and all goes down.
 
Lots of ways to treat a PCa patient, getting an experienced doctor to do it, is the wisest thing one could do.  cool
 
 
 

Post Edited (zufus) : 4/6/2011 4:38:40 AM (GMT-6)


John T
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Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 4225
   Posted 4/6/2011 5:42 AM (GMT -6)   
David,
Cyosurgery is an appropriate treatment for someone in your friend's condition. As with every other treatment the skill of the cryosurgeon is paramount. From what I've heard Sconti in NYC, Bahn in Ventura Ca and Doug Chen in LA are among the best. There are probably others that patients would recommend.
Know up front that results for cancer control are quite good, but SE's like ED are extremeley high.
The other option is to go on a 13 month or a 24 month course of HT. In many cases this is all that is needed to stabalize some cancers.
65 years old, rising psa for 10 years from 4 to 40; 12 biopsies and MRIS all negative. Oct 2009 DXed with G6 <5%. Color Doppler biopsy found 2.5 cm G4+3. Combidex clear. Seeds and IMRT, no side affects and psa .1 at 1.5 years.

rob2
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 1131
   Posted 4/6/2011 6:05 AM (GMT -6)   
I checked into this treatment option before deciding on surgery.  I believe one of the side effects is you definitely will have ED.  I believe Mayo clinic website had a list of all options with PC and showed the pros and cons with each one.  I thought it was informative and provided enough information  for me to start asking  more questions.  I believe someone posted a while ago (may have been a couple of years ago). 

JNF
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2010
Total Posts : 3745
   Posted 4/6/2011 6:31 AM (GMT -6)   
David,

Check out the Malizia Clinic in Atlanta.

In addition to cryo and other traditional forms of treatment, they were the first in the US to use the Nanoknife electro ablation system. Dr Jaime Wong is the one to see. It uses high frequency electronic pulses to kill the cancer tissue.

Malizia was formed a few years ago as a non-profit modeled after the Mayo and Cleveland Clinics. Money behind it includes Bernie Marcus (co-founder of Home Depot) and Dan Cathy (Chic-Filet CEO and son of the founder).

It is close enough to be a day trip for you.
PSA 59 on 8-26-2010 age 60. Biopsy 9-8-2010 12/12 positive, 20-80% involved, PNI in 3 cores, G 3+3,3+4,and 4+3=G7, T2b.
Eligard shot and daily Jalyn started on 10-7-2010.
IMRT to prostate and lymph nodes 25 fractions started on 11-8-2010, HDR Brachytherapy 12-6 and 13-2010.
PSA <.1 and T 23 on 2-3-2011.

142
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 6946
   Posted 4/6/2011 7:36 AM (GMT -6)   
My uro/surgeon brought it up in our initial sessions. He did not dismiss it, but felt that my involved area of the prostate was too large for the treatment to have results comparable to surgery or radiation. Of course the fact that I was a valid candidate for both surgery and radiation left it as a less than best alternative for PCa control.
 
I brought up all of the treatments (yes, even asked about HIFU) with several doctors, and the opinions were the same.

Ziggy9
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 981
   Posted 4/6/2011 9:06 AM (GMT -6)   
don826 said...
Hi David,
 
There is a doctor in Hilton Head who has some measure of expertise in cryo for PCa. I just cannot recall his name at the moment. Cryo can be done as a focal therapy as well as an ablative therapy. There is a practice in Colorado that is doing the focal therapy. I exchanged emails with them recently regarding application as a salvage treatment. Seems thier advantage was in the imaging technique used to locate the cancer though I never quite understood what that technique is.
 
Here is the contact info at the Colorado site.
 
Paul Arangua
Professional Research Assistant (PRA)
Department of Urologic Oncology
University of Colorado Health Sciences Center
Anschutz Cancer Pavilion
1665 Aurora Ct. Suite 1004
P.O. Box 6510, Mail Stop F-710
Aurora, CO 80045
Tel.720-848-0922
Cell.720-365-8100
PAUL.ARANGUA@ucdenver.edu
 
Good luck to your friend and you.
Don
 
Below is a link illustrating the 3D saturation mapping biopsy
http://alprostate.com/Documents/TFTMAPPING.pdf
 

Ziggy9
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 981
   Posted 4/6/2011 9:17 AM (GMT -6)   
Purgatory said...
What do you guys think about cyrotherapy as a primary treatment for PC? This was suggested by my neighbor's urologist, since his doctor is ruling out surgery or radiation as a primary treatment due to the guy's previous radiation and surgeries.


I can't find much good info or data on it. Doesn't seem to be much in the way of studies on it, or long term results. I did see some risky side effects that could happen.



I think his doctor is suggesting starting with HT, and then perhaps using cyrotherapy after x amount of time.



Does this sound like a reasonable approach, or is it out there?



David in SC


Of course all I had was cryosurgical TFT. But it's done as a primary treatment too in killing the gland. In fact about a year ago there was a guy here who called me for we had the same doctor. He wasn't eligible for TFT so went full cryo and was doing great . I haven't seen him post here recently. He lived in Alaska and traveled down here to see my doctor.

The doctor listed above out here I don't know but I don't know all the staff there. I have no idea what is best after HiFu fails. Maybe cryosurgery has an advantage. I can only speak of my cryotherapy TFT which resulted in a soreness for about 10-14 days afterward. Not too bad but it did cut my walks in half for a short time. I played golf with no pain.
Diagnosed 11/08/07 - Age: 58 - 3 of 12 @5%
Psa: 2.3 - 3+3=6 - Size: 34g -T-2-A

2/22/08 - 3D Mapping Saturation Biopsy - 1 of 45 @2% - Psa:2.1 - 3+3=6 - 28g after taking Avodart - Catheter for 1 day -Good Candidate for TFT(Targeted Focal Therapy) Cryosurgery(Ice Balls) - Clinical Research Study

4/22/08 - TFT performed at University of Colorado Medical Center - Catheter for 4 days - Slight soreness for 2 weeks but afterward life returns as normal

7/30/08 - Psa: .32
11/10/08 - Psa.62 -
April 2009 12 of 12 Negative Biopsy

2/16/10 12 of 12 Negative Biopsy

davidg
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 4093
   Posted 4/6/2011 9:22 AM (GMT -6)   
I looked into this. My boss also did. It sounded very promising, but as I recall, it was in its infancy and there weren't to many studies to back it up.
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