Nine weeks after seeds

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NutmegCT
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Date Joined Mar 2011
Total Posts : 46
   Posted 4/9/2011 6:09 PM (GMT -6)   
I think I just need to hear a few "sounds normal to me" comments.

Today I completed the "fourth half-life" of my Palladium 103 implants on February 1, 2011. Doctors say my side effects should soon disappear.

Here's my side effect situation now:

During the day, I need to urinate about every hour or 90 minutes. Once the urge occurs, I can hold for about two minutes. Flow is weak - but it flows! (not a long series of drips like a few weeks ago). Output each urination is about 1/4 cup (50cc). If I keep active, urination is slightly improved; if I sit and read, or eat, or use the laptop, urination slows a bit.

During the night, I wake up about every two hours; very slow output of about 50cc, then I walk up and down the stairs a few times and get another 50cc. This happens around midnight, then 2:30am, then 4:30am, then I get up around 6am.

Abdomen is tight and uncomfortable 24/7; bowel movements are relatively normal now that I've increased fiber.

I think the tight abdomen is mostly nerves. On the way home from the hospital we drove two hours in a blizzard, with cars sliding all over the place. Got home with doctor's warning to be alert to a possible urinary blockage, and governor closed all the highways due to the blizzard. Being isolated without transport doesn't help your nerves, believe me.

Two weeks later we lost power, cellar flooded, and all heck broke loose.

Then a few weeks later I had an internal hemorrhage in my right eye; vision in that eye was completely fogged up. Doctor said I had a retinal detachment and would be blind. Went to see another specialist, who said "no detachment - just a hemorrhage which will clear itself in a few more weeks."

Man, talk about anxiety.

Other than the "minor disasters", does anyone recognize the side effects (urination and bowels) I'm experiencing at this nine week stage?

Never any pain or fever.

Thanks.
Tom M.
Age 62, Biopsy September 2010.
PSA 4.8, Gleason 3+3, Stage T1c, 4/12 positive cores at 10-40%.
Palladium 103 implant February 1, 2011.

davidg
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Total Posts : 4093
   Posted 4/9/2011 6:15 PM (GMT -6)   
my boss had the same exact side effects but worse, he's wet himself in public ( train ) but it is all behind him. I remember seeing him run to the bathroom literally every 5 minutes for a phase. He handled it with humor.

He also had a catheter in and lost libido and had hot flashes with the HT that was administered to him prior to the seeds treatment.

But again, he got over it all and now has a PSA of 0 and none of those side effects anymore.

NutmegCT
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2011
Total Posts : 46
   Posted 4/9/2011 6:46 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks David. Fortunately no incontinence or ED for me (so far anyway).

I wonder if any guys here remember their side effects about two months after seed implant?

Tom
Age 62, Biopsy September 2010.
PSA 4.8, Gleason 3+3, Stage T1c, 4/12 positive cores at 10-40%.
Palladium 103 implant February 1, 2011.

F8
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Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3984
   Posted 4/9/2011 7:05 PM (GMT -6)   
i think about 5-6 weeks out i was getting up six or more times a night to pee and flow was very week.  about two months after seeds i was receiving IGRT and i had more urinary side effects.  i had my seeds done about 10 months ago and everything's been "normal" for awhile.
 
ed
 
 
age: 56
PSA on 12/09: 6.8
gleason 3+4 = 7
HT, BT and IGRT
received 3rd and last lupron shot 9/14/10
2/8/11 PSA <.1, T= 6 ng/dl

Post Edited (F8) : 4/9/2011 7:21:16 PM (GMT-6)


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 4/9/2011 7:17 PM (GMT -6)   
Nutmeg,

There are several men here with seed experience that can give you some good first hand experience to answer your question. I wish you luck in resolving these mutiple issues, sounds very stressful.

David in SC
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 2/11 1.24
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10,

F8
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3984
   Posted 4/9/2011 8:23 PM (GMT -6)   
your side effects sound normal to me.  the other stuff -- plumbing, eye and weather -- is just life showing up.
 
ed 
age: 56
PSA on 12/09: 6.8
gleason 3+4 = 7
HT, BT and IGRT
received 3rd and last lupron shot 9/14/10
2/8/11 PSA <.1, T= 6 ng/dl

John T
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 4268
   Posted 4/9/2011 8:53 PM (GMT -6)   
Nutmeg,
My symptoms reduced dramatically at the 4 or 5 week period. I think it is normal for some to go for a few months. If you still have these issues in 5 or 6 months then I would be worried.
What you are experiencing is normal and expected.
JT
65 years old, rising psa for 10 years from 4 to 40; 12 biopsies and MRIS all negative. Oct 2009 DXed with G6 <5%. Color Doppler biopsy found 2.5 cm G4+3. Combidex clear. Seeds and IMRT, no side affects and psa .1 at 1.5 years.

bluefin
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 4/10/2011 7:29 AM (GMT -6)   
Nutmeg,
Rememer God will only give you enough advercity that you can handle... Will all that you went through, it sounds like you will have an easy road now.
I was told that I have PC last Wednesday. I am in the process of doing research for my treatment and one of my options are the "seeds". Here are my stats:
Psa: 16 months ago 2.5 now 4.47
Stage T1
Rectal exam OK
12 cores 11 negative 1 7% cancer
Good health.

Would like to know more about the seeds and maybe who was you radilogist.
I am from the RI area. Please e-mail if you want.

Jim

davidg
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 4093
   Posted 4/10/2011 7:41 AM (GMT -6)   
bluefin, this is a good guy to call for seeds if you don't mind the idea of someone in NYC.

http://www.mountsinai.org/profiles/richard-g-stock

He took care of my boss and if needed I'd have him put in a word for you. Although that wouldn't be needed. Stock wanted to treat me but I chose a different path. My boss did great with him.

NutmegCT
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2011
Total Posts : 46
   Posted 4/10/2011 7:41 AM (GMT -6)   
Bluefin - there's lots of research to do. I'd suggest you read a *lot*, then start a new topic here, ask lots of questions, and get feedback on your specific situation.

John T - thanks for the encouragement. One of the things that caught me off guard, is seeing "no side effects" in guys' profiles. Now I realize they usually mean "no side effects at this time", but not that they never had any side effects. Sometimes it's tough to find out where guys are two months after seed implant. And many guys have more than one treatment mode, so sorting out the side effects from seeds/radiation can be tricky.

Hearing from "seed guys" about what they experienced within the first year is really helpful.

Thanks!
Tom
.
Age 62, Biopsy September 2010.
PSA 4.8, Gleason 3+3, Stage T1c, 4/12 positive cores at 10-40%.
Palladium 103 implant February 1, 2011.

John T
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 4268
   Posted 4/10/2011 8:20 AM (GMT -6)   
Tom,
When I had post seed symtoms they seemed worse when I was inactive, like sitting or driving. Are you taking FloMax? Should take two per day. Also Ibupropin relieves the swelling that could be causing some of your issues. Lay off all alcohol and caffine as these aggravate the urinary system. Metamucil is great for any bowel issues. You should be fine in a few more weeks.
JT
65 years old, rising psa for 10 years from 4 to 40; 12 biopsies and MRIS all negative. Oct 2009 DXed with G6 <5%. Color Doppler biopsy found 2.5 cm G4+3. Combidex clear. Seeds and IMRT, no side affects and psa .1 at 1.5 years.

NutmegCT
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2011
Total Posts : 46
   Posted 4/10/2011 8:29 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks John T!

I'm on prescription FloMax .4mg twice a day. I'll try the ibuprofen at night and see if that helps. You're right about active vs inactive; sitting, sleeping, and driving really slow things down. Then you get up and find you're "slow-flow" again.

No alcohol or caffein since the seed implant. No spicy or greasy foods. Now just drinking plain water, herbal tea, and coffee substitutes like Pero, Roma, Inka, etc.

I've increased the fiber with Metamucil wafers and high-fiber bread. Still have the tight abdomen, but two movements a day instead of my pre-seed one. Feels like the bowel "motility" has really slowed down, in spite of the increased fiber.

Forgot to mention the swelling in my legs. I figure that's due to FloMax, but don't really know.

Tom
Age 62, Biopsy September 2010.
PSA 4.8, Gleason 3+3, Stage T1c, 4/12 positive cores at 10-40%.
Palladium 103 implant February 1, 2011.

JoeFL
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 420
   Posted 4/10/2011 11:07 AM (GMT -6)   
Nutmeg,

Sounds slightly better than normal to me. In addition to the frequency and urgency that you have, I also had a burning sensation after BT that lasted for 3-4 weeks. Also, like F8, my BT was followed two months later with 25 IGRT treatments which prolonged the urgency, frequency effects. I have had no incontenence or bowel issues. Also never had any tightness in the abdomen. (That may be stress in your case...no blizzards down this way).

I am now 15 months out from BT and a year out from the last rad treatment. I still get up more often during the night than I would like....but that was happening even before the BT. Both my uro and radiol told me that my urination "pattern" would likely be about the same as it was before treatment....and it is pretty close. Somewhat a function of age I suppose.

Back to your original question....your recovery sounds pretty normal to me. Regards,

Joe

Joe
Age 68 PSA 4.5 Biopsy 9/4/09 Bostwick Labs 5 of 8 sections (5 of 11 cores) positive-Gleason 3+3=6 Stage T1
BT on 12/11/09 (84 seeds of Palladium 103) Home same day/no catheter. Some burning, frequency, urgency for 6 weeks. No incontinence, mild ED. 25 IGRT sessions ending 3/22/10 - some fatigue until 30 days after last treatment. PSA as of 12/9/10 - 0.1

NutmegCT
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2011
Total Posts : 46
   Posted 4/11/2011 12:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks Joe. Something tells me that half my problems are due to anxiety. In the last couple months I've had cancer diagnosed and treated, two cellar floods, right eye hemorrhage, and left hand frozen due to inflamed tendons.

So dealing with the seed side effects has probably been worse than it should/could have been.

Jeez, seems like Fate has stored up everything and released it all at once!

Tom
Age 62, Biopsy September 2010.
PSA 4.8, Gleason 3+3, Stage T1c, 4/12 positive cores at 10-40%.
Palladium 103 implant February 1, 2011.

JNF
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2010
Total Posts : 3880
   Posted 4/11/2011 1:25 PM (GMT -6)   
Tom, is your nickname Lucky? What a 90 day period of time. I had a lot on my plate as well with my wife being treated for breast cancer while I did the PCa. I too had an eye problem that resulted in an injection into the eyeball!

I had HDR brachytherapy and IMRT. I had the urinary and bowel issues of greater frequency and urgency. I was on one Flomax per day and a lot of water, green tea, and tomato juice. No coffee and only an occasional red wine. Diet was virtually no land animal meat, very little chicken, moderate fresh fruit, a lot of fish, vegetables, grains, and leafy salads.....and an occasional chocolate. This kept my weight down and bowels moving well, just more frequently. I also stepped up the exercise.

As John T said earlier, the side effects went away fairly quickly. I had my second HDR procedure Dec 13 and the last IMRT a couple of days before Christmas. By the middle of January, I had returned to normal.
PSA 59 on 8-26-2010 age 60. Biopsy 9-8-2010 12/12 positive, 20-80% involved, PNI in 3 cores, G 3+3,3+4,and 4+3=G7, T2b.
Eligard shot and daily Jalyn started on 10-7-2010.
IMRT to prostate and lymph nodes 25 fractions started on 11-8-2010, HDR Brachytherapy 12-6 and 13-2010.
PSA <.1 and T 23 on 2-3-2011.

NutmegCT
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2011
Total Posts : 46
   Posted 4/11/2011 1:58 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks JNF. Sounds like you had quite a load to carry too.

I'm interested in your diet. I follow pretty much the same thing, but absolutely no alcohol. And I was told that tomato juice (as well as cranberry juice) is very acid and would cause even more discomfort in urination.

Say, do you remember when you noticed those side effects going away?

re: "Lucky". This might explain why folks are reluctant to get on an elevator or board a plane with me.

Tom
Age 62, Biopsy September 2010.
PSA 4.8, Gleason 3+3, Stage T1c, 4/12 positive cores at 10-40%.
Palladium 103 implant February 1, 2011.

richard0460
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 49
   Posted 4/12/2011 1:25 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Tom
I also hope you are on Flomax. My doc also has me on Alleve two tabs twice a day for inflammation. I am at 13 days post seeds and was getting a lot of burning -- and I think worse from having to take an acidic potassium supplement for a different problem. One of the guys on another forum suggested a teaspoon of baking sode in water and lots of water. It seems to have helped. My doc also said very very little choc, coffee, tea, tomatoes,Vit C, B-12, strawberries, cantelop, sodas and a bunch of other foods. One day I gave getting a cup of coffee a try and felt somewhat had poured hot water in my pants. I am following right after you so am reading carefully.

Best
Richard

Gl 7 3+4 ADT 4 months PSA after ADT .04 Pal 103 Seeds Grimm Seattle March 30, 2011

NutmegCT
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2011
Total Posts : 46
   Posted 4/12/2011 2:05 PM (GMT -6)   
Richard - thanks for your comments. As I said earlier, I'm on FloMax .4mg twice a day. I actually don't have much urinary "burning", but the slow flow is a hassle, as is getting up every couple hours at night to urinate.

You mention you're also taking Alleve. What size tablet (100mg, 200mg, etc.)?

You seem to have the same food recommendations as I do. Without coffee, tea, chocolate, tomatoes, sodas, alcohol, etc. what are you drinking?

Thanks.
Tom
Age 62, Biopsy September 2010.
PSA 4.8, Gleason 3+3, Stage T1c, 4/12 positive cores at 10-40%.
Palladium 103 implant February 1, 2011.

richard0460
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 49
   Posted 4/13/2011 8:23 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Tom
Im on Alleve 220 mg two tabs twice a day. Strum also wants me to try Trental 400mg twice a day, but I seem to be having a reaction to it. I had feet blister and had this weak woozy feeling associated with it but it may also be from other drugs I was taking. Trental improves blood flow and might prevent fibrosis of the arteries due to the radiation from BT. Yet I still have the frequent urination that you do and some burning. I have taken Extra Strength Tylenol for the burning if it bothers me enough.
Best
Richard
Gl 7 3+4 (30%) 3 of 7 cores Sept 10 (Bahn), Endorectal MRI negative for ECE's, Sem Ves Involvement Nov 10, ADT (Strum) 4 months PSA after ADT .04 Prostate volume fell from 48 cc to 19 cc. Pal 103 Seeds (Grimm) March 30, 2011

richard0460
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 49
   Posted 4/13/2011 8:32 PM (GMT -6)   
Tom
I am drinking water, water and more water. Also Smoothies: 2 small squares of Trader Joes choc melted inAlmond Milk poured over ice then Vanilla Protein, Coconut milk, Coconut flakes, Frozen whole raspberries, Stevia- blended. My bladder or prostate dont see to react to that much chocolate ---yet. I tried a diet coke today but drank a lot of water with it. Ginger tea with Stevia went well with the plumbing yesterday but drank a glass of water afterwards.

Grimm wants me to stop all anti oxidants because it interferes with radiation but Strum thinks it is not a signifcant effect and to stay on them since I would need to stay off them for 18 months-- the length of the effects of the radiation. Hmmmm. I will listen to Strum in this case.
Best
Richard
Gl 7 3+4 (30%) 3 of 7 cores Sept 10 (Bahn), Endorectal MRI negative for ECE's, Sem Ves Involvement Nov 10, ADT (Strum) 4 months PSA after ADT .04 Prostate volume fell from 48 cc to 19 cc. Pal 103 Seeds (Grimm) March 30, 2011

richard0460
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 49
   Posted 4/13/2011 8:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Tom
I keeping thinking of more stuff. If you would like to exchange emails since we are BT Buddies mine is richardrgayton@yahoo.com. Something that gives me major relief of urinary symptoms for a few hours is intense exercize. After playing tennis for 1 1/2 hours yesterday my urination was normal for several hours then back to the urgency and frequency in the evening.
Best wishes
Richard
Gl 7 3+4 (30%) 3 of 7 cores Sept 10 (Bahn), Endorectal MRI negative for ECE's, Sem Ves Involvement Nov 10, ADT (Strum) 4 months PSA after ADT .04 Prostate volume fell from 48 cc to 19 cc. Pal 103 Seeds (Grimm) March 30, 2011

NutmegCT
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2011
Total Posts : 46
   Posted 4/13/2011 8:56 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks Richard. I see you mention "My bladder or prostate dont see to react to that much chocolate ---yet."

I actually hadn't heard that chocolate was a problem. Do you have any references on that?

By the way, you and I have emailed before. I think on the SeedPod list.

Tom
Age 62, Biopsy September 2010.
PSA 4.8, Gleason 3+3, Stage T1c, 4/12 positive cores at 10-40%.
Palladium 103 implant February 1, 2011.

John T
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 4268
   Posted 4/14/2011 12:27 AM (GMT -6)   
High dose Ibupropin also works well, 800 mg; but you can't take it at this dose for more than 6-8 days. This will reduce the swellling and imflamation that causes the slow stream.
JT
66 years old, rising psa for 10 years from 4 to 40; 12 biopsies and MRIS all negative. Oct 2009 DXed with G6 <5%. Color Doppler biopsy found 2.5 cm G4+3. Combidex clear. Seeds and IMRT, 4 weeks of urinary frequency and urgency; no side affects since then. 2 years of psa's all at 0.1.

GOP
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2010
Total Posts : 657
   Posted 4/14/2011 5:56 AM (GMT -6)   
Sounds pretty normal to me. I had the permanent seeds (I never did learn the technical names and acronyms for the different treatments) so there was a 'hot' period between days 10 and 25. That's when the symptoms that you describe were the worst for me. i also had some real rectal discomfort, but a couple rounds of steroids took care of that. You are doing fine. You made a good choice. 

Post Edited (GOP) : 4/14/2011 5:02:13 AM (GMT-6)


JNF
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2010
Total Posts : 3880
   Posted 4/14/2011 8:38 AM (GMT -6)   
Tom,

Regarding diet, I do have a glass of red wine most evenings with dinner. I have done that for many years since living in Europe and Asia many moons ago. It is good for you in many ways, Snuffy Meyers suggests it, and it tastes good!

As for juices, I have always started the day with a large glass of orange juice. I changed that to tomato and/or V8 for the lycopene advantage and less sugar. I think it is less acidic as well. I never had any problems during the radiation that I could trace to the juice. I think that caffene is probably more of a problem and I completely eliminated caffene drinks.

Now my daily routine is a large glass of V8 in the nmorning, probably 5 large cups of green tea throughout the day, at least as many cups of water, and 5-7 ounces of red wine at dinner time. I do not drink anything after 8:00 pm and am in bed by 10:00 and awake at 5:00 am. I might get up at 3-4am once a week to pee, if that often. The only soft drink I have is Canada Dry ginger ale with green tea, maybe 2-3 per week. If I am out at lunch I will treat my self to an Arnold Palmer, unsweetened. On the weekend in hot weather I will likely have beer or two after mowing the grass. Urinary habits are all fine on this routine. The minor urinary side effects I experienced during the radiation cleared within 2-3 weeks after the final session.
PSA 59 on 8-26-2010 age 60. Biopsy 9-8-2010 12/12 positive, 20-80% involved, PNI in 3 cores, G 3+3,3+4,and 4+3=G7, T2b.
Eligard shot and daily Jalyn started on 10-7-2010.
IMRT to prostate and lymph nodes 25 fractions started on 11-8-2010, HDR Brachytherapy 12-6 and 13-2010.
PSA <.1 and T 23 on 2-3-2011.
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