ADT and bone health (exercise with weights)

New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> ]

compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7204
   Posted 4/24/2011 5:06 PM (GMT -6)   
Time for a new question. This is directed towards those folks on ADT.
 
I'm curious about something. I am not on ADT yet, but if I fail SRT it will be in my near future, I think. Anyway, I've read a lot about it, and clearly bone health is a major concern.
 
I try and work out at the gym 2-3 days a week. I do treadmill (8-12 laps at 3.2-4.0 mph) and then a few assorted cybex machines. I have never done free weights. I do have back problems and now even some groin problems (hopefully a temporary unusual SRT SE).  I've been hesitant to start free weights (I will be 65 in June).
 
My question: do the cybex machines count as good bone exercises? If ADT happens, would I need to incorporate some additional free weights exercises? I'm not sure if the typical trainers would be helpful here (or maybe this is routine/standard)
 
the machines I use include:
chest press
lateral pulldown
arm curl
pectoral fly
 
Mel

F8
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3800
   Posted 4/24/2011 5:12 PM (GMT -6)   
Mel -- you can strength train with machines.  i do very few exercises with "free weight" anymore. 
 
ed
 
 
age: 56
PSA on 12/09: 6.8
gleason 3+4 = 7
HT, BT and IGRT
received 3rd and last lupron shot 9/14/10
2/8/11 PSA <.1, T= 6 ng/dl

BB_Fan
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 1011
   Posted 4/24/2011 5:17 PM (GMT -6)   
Not an expert, but I believe weight training is good for muscles, but not bones. I think that you need Vit D and other drugs, diet, suppliments for bone health.
Dx PCa Dec 2008 at 56, PSA 3.4
Biopsy: T1c, Geason 7 (3+4) - 8 cores, 4 positive, 30% of all 4 cores.
Robotic RP March 2009
Pathology Report: T2c, Geason 8, organ confined, negitive margins, lymph nodes - tumor volume 9%, nerves spared, no negitive side effects.
PSA's < .01, .01, .07, .28, .50. ADT 3 5/10. IMRT 7/10.
PSA's post HT .01, < .01

compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7204
   Posted 4/24/2011 5:23 PM (GMT -6)   
I thought it was good for bones, recommended to combat osteoperosis
 
Mel

davidg
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 4093
   Posted 4/24/2011 5:36 PM (GMT -6)   
cybex machines are typically for the older crowd. There very restricted in the movements so you really don't work all your muscles as you would while negotiating free weights. You tend to do the same motion over and over again with the machines and your muscles get used to that movement. Typically you want to keep your muscles guessing all the time. I don't know how this relates to bone strength, what I mention above is typically advice you would get if you were trying to really get a good workout in with goal of working all muscles, getting cut, losing weight, etc. etc.
40 years old - Diagnosed at 40
Robotic Surgery Mount Sinai with Dr. Samadi Jan, 2011
complete urinary control and good erections with and without meds
Prostate was small, 34 grams.
Final Gleason score 7 (3+4)
Less than 5% of slides involved tumor
Tumor measured 5 mm in greatest dimension and was located in the right lobe near the apex.
Tumor was confined to prostate.
The apical, basal, pseudocapsular and soft tissue resection margins were free of tumor.
Seminal vesicles were free of tumor.
Right pelvic node - benign fibroadiopse tissue. no lymph node is identified.
Left pelvic node - one small lymph node, negative for tumor (0/1)

AJCC stage: pT2 NO MX

compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7204
   Posted 4/24/2011 5:47 PM (GMT -6)   
David:
 
I agree on cybex. But there is also much less chance of injury.
 
Mel

davidg
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 4093
   Posted 4/24/2011 6:02 PM (GMT -6)   
agreed.

I went running twice today. As mentioned in other thread, thinking of avoiding weights alltogether while focusing on push ups, abs, pull ups and dips always using my body weight as resistance. Also considering yoga strongly.
40 years old - Diagnosed at 40
Robotic Surgery Mount Sinai with Dr. Samadi Jan, 2011
complete urinary control and good erections with and without meds
Prostate was small, 34 grams.
Final Gleason score 7 (3+4)
Less than 5% of slides involved tumor
Tumor measured 5 mm in greatest dimension and was located in the right lobe near the apex.
Tumor was confined to prostate.
The apical, basal, pseudocapsular and soft tissue resection margins were free of tumor.
Seminal vesicles were free of tumor.
Right pelvic node - benign fibroadiopse tissue. no lymph node is identified.
Left pelvic node - one small lymph node, negative for tumor (0/1)

AJCC stage: pT2 NO MX

F8
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3800
   Posted 4/24/2011 6:47 PM (GMT -6)   
>>cybex machines are typically for the older crowd.<<
 
that's bull.  but Mel is 65.
 
ed
age: 56
PSA on 12/09: 6.8
gleason 3+4 = 7
HT, BT and IGRT
received 3rd and last lupron shot 9/14/10
2/8/11 PSA <.1, T= 6 ng/dl

diamonds3
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2011
Total Posts : 112
   Posted 4/24/2011 6:51 PM (GMT -6)   
Please set me straight and explain how push ups, abs, pull ups and dips always with the same weight resistance will "keep your muscles guessing all the time"?
DOB: 01/61
PSA: 01/10 2.8
PSA: 11/10 4.2
DRE: 12/10 Normal
PSA: 01/11 4.1
Biopsy: 01/21/11 7 out of 12 cores + Gleason: 6(3+3) Stage: T1C
da Vinci 03/04/11 Penn Hospital
Catheter Removed 03/11/11
Prostate Size: 22 g Gleason: 7(3 + 4)
Grade: T2C 10% of Tumor involved
Extraprostatic Extension: None
Perineural Invasion: None
Seminal Vesicle/Lymph Nodes: Clear
Margins: +, invasive apical, posterior

F8
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3800
   Posted 4/24/2011 7:07 PM (GMT -6)   
Mel's not looking for a mr. universe workout routine.  he's trying to stay healthy.  i just did a 9-month stint on lupron and it will do some scary things to your body especially if you do nothing to slow down the side effects.  for the last several weeks i can feel my testosterone returning....my strength is also almost where it was at pre-HT but i always worked out even on the days that i hurt so bad all i could do is go through the motions, and there were many days like that.  i can feel my muscles getting firmer but they are covered with a soft mantle of almost hairless flab, 25 lbs. more than when i took my first shot of lupron.
 
in that weakened and demoralized state all delusions of six-pack abs and 300 lb bench press are long gone.  you'll just want to survive and slow down the physical and emotional mutation that will take place.
 
use the machines and occasionally switch exercises to "shock" your muscles.  if you aren't feeling well just show up and do what you can.  if a certain area tightens up or hurts all the time back off because without testosterone you aren't healing and your body is going to let you know it.
 
ed
 
 
 
 
age: 56
PSA on 12/09: 6.8
gleason 3+4 = 7
HT, BT and IGRT
received 3rd and last lupron shot 9/14/10
2/8/11 PSA <.1, T= 6 ng/dl

davidg
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 4093
   Posted 4/24/2011 7:19 PM (GMT -6)   
diamonds3 said...
Please set me straight and explain how push ups, abs, pull ups and dips always with the same weight resistance will "keep your muscles guessing all the time"?


I'll be doing more and more as I get back in shape. I'll also be changing grips and position of grips for all of these. This ensures working different muscles.

My goal isn't to bulk up, it's to get lean and regain real strength, not temporary strength that is conditioned by repeated weight lifting.

So when doing push ups, for instance, you can go with a wide stance which works chest and shoulders or a tight stance which focuses more on triceps. You can further mix these up by elevating your feet on a bench behind you. YOu can even do an inverted push up by hanging on to the bar on a smith machine. You can also get a stool and elevate one arm on the stool and switch arms on the stool with each push up. his last one will give your shoulders an added boost. You can further work shoulders if you get those rotating floor handles so that you rotate arms as you push up. A million variations and you can do all of thes ein your bedroom btw.

Same with pull ups, wide stance is difficult and works back, tight stance with palms facing you will focus more on arms and be easier. Fot this you need a strong bar to pull up on however. SO gym or a decent playground in your area.

Abs there are a million variations of these. So you can work lower and upper abs.

You can also do a ton of core work without weights.

All these, if done properly, actually get you in better shape than pumping iron.

But lifting weights might be better for our bones, I dont know the answer to that.

Post Edited (davidg) : 4/24/2011 7:22:29 PM (GMT-6)


Skate
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 424
   Posted 4/24/2011 7:23 PM (GMT -6)   

Ht is designed to lower the T levels to chem. castration levels. Low T levels result in depletion of bone density.  Thus reason for baseline bone density testing pre ADT. Therefore calcium replacement 2000 units to maintain bone density (although this is now up for discussion). Muscle and strength depletion also a result. Therefore must keep the upper body strength up - free weights or machines routinely (yes always trick the muscles). Weight gain targeting belly fat areas like a tire will almost always result on HT.  Thus the need for routine sweaty exercise - to burn off any calories because low T levels slow the metabolism that is the natural fat burner.  All in all, an individual must include as many forms of exercise as possible to combat the SE from HT. My experience.

Jack


Fairwind
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 3741
   Posted 4/24/2011 7:45 PM (GMT -6)   
Skate has a good, balanced viewpoint..It's calcium, vitamin D and exercise and watch your diet and calorie intake..Swimming is the BEST exercise and public swimming pools have come a long, long way...
Age 68.
PSA age 55: 3.5, DRE normal.
age 58: 4.5
61: 5.2
64: 7.5, DRE "Abnormal"
65: 8.5, " normal", biopsy, 12 core, negative...
66 9.0 "normal", 2ed biopsy, negative, BPH, Proscar
67 4.5 DRE "normal"
68 7.0 3rd biopsy positive, 4 out of 12, G-6,7, 9
RALP Sept 3 2010, pos margin, one pos vesicle nodes neg. Post Op PSA 0.9 SRT, HT. 2-15-'11 PSA 0.0

Skate
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 424
   Posted 4/24/2011 7:53 PM (GMT -6)   
Sorry as I forgot 2000 units of Vit D as well as the calcium and a good diet
plan are necessary with exercise and yes swimming is the best.  Did you know that we sweat when we swim hard? Thanks Fairwind for the reminders.
Jack
 
Age 59 at Dx / 63 now
01/08 PSA 4.17 DRE showed node
03/08 RP - pT3a 10% ca , 2 of 12 / 3+4
Nerve Sparing, Margins clear, no SV invasion
Continent 3 weeks post surgery / ED
06/08 until 08/09 PSA 0.01
08/09 PSA .14
09/09 SRT / 36 treatments
01/10 PSA .13
08/11/10 PSA 3.44 / T = 25.0 nmol/L
30/11/10 Zoladex ADT
24/02/11 PSA <.04 / T = 1.0 nmol/L
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
Forum Information
Currently it is Wednesday, June 20, 2018 1:33 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 2,973,725 posts in 326,123 threads.
View Active Threads


Who's Online
This forum has 161109 registered members. Please welcome our newest member, HPB22.
459 Guest(s), 12 Registered Member(s) are currently online.  Details
Adele1983, Lwill351, HaleyBugs07, Gladioli66, getting by, ntzguy, Saipan Paradise, Alxander, Big Tasty, Busted1, xy123, HPB22