Prostae Cancer and Testerone levels

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PeterC
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 4/29/2011 9:18 AM (GMT -6)   
In September of 2008 and I had my prostate removed with DaVinci surgery.  I am now 61 years young.  On my 1st visit back my PSA's were .01  Since than they have only increased to .02   I am now considering a Testerone injection or patch to help with being tired, depressed and just plain lousy all the time.  My drive is gone.  Has anyone out there been through this and had T therapy?  I know there is a slight risk of waking up a dormant cancer cell.  I guess it might be a personal decision to decide if QOL is better than longevity.  I have read many opinions on this and it appears there is not enough data gathered yet for a true medical opinion.

tatt2man
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 2842
   Posted 4/29/2011 9:47 AM (GMT -6)   
- have you had any bloodwork done before to show a baseline testosterone level prior to and post-surgery?
- it could also be an element of depression that is affecting you now.

- another possible influence could be the media.
- there has been a glut of testosterone therapy ads on the TV lately, as an alternative be-all and end-all to men's climateric (male menopause) - much cheaper than a red corvette (or maybe a dark green one) and/or a trophy wife.

-I would check with your doctor/urologist about the effects of T therapy on PSA and your situation.

-all the best.
BRONSON
...
p.s.- here is an article on the matter - www.medpagetoday.com/Oncology/ProstateCancer/26104

..........

Post Edited (tatt2man) : 4/29/2011 9:53:30 AM (GMT-6)


No longer fearful
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 4/29/2011 10:55 AM (GMT -6)   
Peter C,
 
I think that it's normal for there to be a change in testosterone. Get a baseline and check to see the bioavailable testosterone, that's really the key component. There will be some doctors who say that large muscle mass exercise has nothing to do with testosterone levels but I disagree. I ran an experiment on myself and measured testosterone before and after and there was an increase. Belly fat also has a negative impact on testosterone. And some of it Peter is just learning to deal with a less active libido. I know that I went through a period of depression that really kicked my butt it cost me almost 50 pounds that I didn't need to gain. Glad you took the time to post, we can all benefit from what we've gone through. Good luck in your decision.

PeterC
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 5/1/2011 1:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the response. Heading to the urologist in a few weeks to discuss T therapy pro's and con's. Also to disuss daily usage of cialis. Unfortuneatly my PPO dosen't cover very much for this prescription. Any assisitance out there with this for prostate cancer victims that anyone knows of? Will post results of disussion after visit.

142
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 6945
   Posted 5/1/2011 2:14 PM (GMT -6)   
Peter,
 
My insurance is also very limited on ED meds. They will pay for a max of 8 pills per month regardless of type/strength.
 
I tried Cialis 5mg daily for a month on the "first month free" deal, then switched to 20mg, which I cut up into (more or less) quarters.
 
By the way, Welcome to HW, as I don't remember seeing your first post.
DaVinci 10/2009
My adjuvant IGRT journey (2010) -
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=1756808

Fairwind
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 3738
   Posted 5/1/2011 2:24 PM (GMT -6)   
www.alldaychemist.com Mens health. two for one offer.
Age 68.
PSA age 55: 3.5, DRE normal.
age 58: 4.5
61: 5.2
64: 7.5, DRE "Abnormal"
65: 8.5, " normal", biopsy, 12 core, negative...
66 9.0 "normal", 2ed biopsy, negative, BPH, Proscar
67 4.5 DRE "normal"
68 7.0 3rd biopsy positive, 4 out of 12, G-6,7, 9
RALP Sept 3 2010, pos margin, one pos vesicle nodes neg. Post Op PSA 0.9 SRT, HT. 2-15-'11 PSA 0.0

Fallcrop
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 21
   Posted 5/5/2011 9:16 PM (GMT -6)   
PeterC, I understand about the no energy, no drive, etc. I have been researching the internet on the thoughts that testosterone feeds PC since my Dr.s believe it does and won't prescribe testosterone patches/jel for me. Here are some websites on the subject.
 
Hope this helps. Wish I could get my Dr.s to read these.

mspt98
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 375
   Posted 5/5/2011 9:54 PM (GMT -6)   
I am in the same boat as you guys, although younger. As my signature shows below I had devinci at 52 and discovered the low T at that time, 230, normal for my age is 500. I had been depressed, lethargic, no libido for years, figured that was normal aging. When I read about guys here in their 70's and 80's having sex I almost fell over in disbelief. My operating urologist has always said I could have T shots or patch if I wanted due to low grade gleason 6 ca with clean biopsy. He says chance of recurrence is very small but if you read this board regularly some guys psa can start rising after many years of zeros.  My internist recommended against T supplementation.  Im still on the fence about this, both of my parents died of cancer, colon and breast at an early age, 58 and 68. I dont want this cancer to come back, but my quality of life is still lacking for sure, last 2 shots of trimix produced wonderful erections but no orgasms, wife became very frustrated when I didn't climax, said she didnt want to go through that again. This is certainly a gray area with no clear answers.........
My age= 52 when this all happened.
DRE=negative,
PSA went from 1.9 to 2.85 in one year, biopsy ordered,
Second biopsy on 08/14/08 found 2/12 cores positive for CA on R side, 1 core=5%CA, other core=25% CA, Gleason score= 6 both cores,
Bilateral nerve sparing robotic surgery on 09/11/08, pathological stage T2A,
No signs of spread, organ confined,
6 0's in a row, still use trimix for ED

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 5/5/2011 10:03 PM (GMT -6)   
welcome peter, glad to see you

i agree with some of the others, if you haven't gotten a T baseline, i feel that's essential with your line of thought, and of course, there is a risk factor, but i fully agree and understand about balancing quantity with quality.

david in sc
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06, 2/11 1.24, 4/11 3.81
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10

occam
New Member


Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 5/6/2011 1:18 AM (GMT -6)   
Re balancing quantity vs quality. If the cancer did resurface then Peter might end up on ADT for many years. So perhaps it is quality vs quality?

PeterC
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 5/6/2011 5:15 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for all the responses. I see my urologist on 5/10 and will get his opinion. It sounds like its gonna be left up to me. After reviewing all of your posts it is clear to see there are many opinions on this subject. This appears to be almost as difficult as the original decison to have surgery when my cancer was first discovered. I have not heard of Trimx before. I wil discuss this as well on my return visit. Thanks for the info on this. I guess there is no proven data to directly link the return of the cancer with T theraphy. I will post our disussion.

ralfinaz
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2011
Total Posts : 735
   Posted 5/6/2011 11:24 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi PeterC,
Testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is possible after PCa treatment for individual patients. The main question is having it done by a physician that understands the complex issue of hormone supplementation. The first thing you need is a testosterone total/free testosterone level measurement. Issues to consider are the control of the supplemented (exogenous) testosterone metabolites. The two main metabolites are dihydrotestosterone and estradiol.

You had radical surgery treatment, no prostate gland and very low residual PSA. As such you seem to be a good candidate for TRT. Monitoring PSA after starting TRT is vital. Control of your estradiol level might be necessary by the use of an antiestrogen. If TRT improves your QOL without an impact on your PCa, you need to understand that with continuous exogenous testosterone supplementation, your natural (endogenous) testosterone production by your testicles might be reduced considerably and testicular atrophy is possible. Ending TRT might result in a lower level of testosterone in the long run.

The key here is to have a physician that will follow your case closely and not simply provide you with testosterone injections. Monitoring your hormonal mixture and controlling the metabolites should be part of the TRT protocol.

Wish you the best possible outcome.

RalphV
Phoenix, Arizona
Surviving prostate cancer since 1992. RP; Orchiectomy;
GS (4 + 2); bilateral seminal vesicle invasion; tumor attached to rectal wall. Last PSA September, 2010: <0.1 ng/ml
Laughter is the best medicine!
www.pcainaz.org/phpBB304
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