Progress Report on Long-Term Incontinence Healing

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MikeS24
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 131
   Posted 5/11/2011 1:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi folks, mostly just reading and not posting from time to time.

Just checking in and providing a progress report to those of you with some long-term incontinence issues. I measure pads and chart progress daily. Call it a hobby if you like. It give me some solace to see progress, especially since I am in month 9.5 since surgery in late July 2010.

Here is the volume of my pad input for a 13 hour time period that covered 6:15 am to 7:15 pm each day since my surgery. This accounts for the same time of day, the same basic habits and activity level.

All measurements are in (ml. / cc)
2010 August 4-5 pads per day no measurements
2010 September 125.5
2010 October 111.2
2010 November 33.9
2010 December 17.8
2011 January 13.6
2011 February 11.2
2011 March 10.7
2011 April 8.6

I figure I am only going to drop by 1 cc per month so if this healing process stays on track, It will take me nearly 18 months to get this under control. Even at this point if no progress were, the output is managable by a single pad per day. My average 24 hour leaking is around 14 to 20 cc per day. So the hourly leakage is under 1 cc per hour.
Mike S.
Dx 56
Biopsy: Gleason 3+3=6, PSA 6.6 One core of 12 with 5% T1c
Surgery: July 2010 J. Hopkins
Path: Gleason 6, Neg Mar, Neg LN, Neg Sem Ves
9/15/10 1st post op PSA <0.1 undetectable
3/11/11 PSA - <0.1
Aug -Sept 2010 - 4-5 pads
Oct 2010 3 pads
Nov 2010 2 pads
Dec - Mar 2011 1 pad all day -slight leaking
ED: slow steady improvements

wifeandmother
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 45
   Posted 5/11/2011 2:43 PM (GMT -6)   
Very good, this is good. Slow and steady improvements is the way to go!

Magaboo
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 1211
   Posted 5/11/2011 3:17 PM (GMT -6)   
Slow and steady wins every time  yeah   Congratulations on your continuing progress. Hopefully you will be completely dry in just a few short month.
All the best to you in your journey.
Mag

Born 1936
PSA 7.9, Gleason Score 3+4=7, 2 of 8 positive
open RP Nov 06, T3a, Gleasons 3+4=7, Seminal vesicles and lymph nodes clear
Catheter out 15 Dec 06, Dry since 11 Feb 07
All PSA tests in 2007 (4) <.04
PSA tests in 2008: Mar.=.04; Jun.=.05; Sept.=.08; at SRT Start=0.1,
Salvage RT completed (33 days-66Gy) 19 Dec 08
PSA: in Jan 09 =.05, all tests to date (Jan 11) <.04

MikeS24
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 131
   Posted 5/12/2011 7:41 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks, I can't take credit for this being a plan of my own making. It is just the way I am healing. I am posting to provide encouragement to others who might have the same long and slow healing situation. While I thought this would be over in 6 months, the actual time might be double or triple that original estimate.

I always thought of myself as a quick healer. Cuts and scrapes all healed within days. Surgery put that to the ultimate test and I did not realize how long the healing would take.

I do have weeks go by with no change and that causes me to become anxious and think that I have reached a stopping point. The consistent measuring is a double edge sword. I see the times when progress is going nowhere, a concept I would not have know without measuring pads. But on the positive side, measuring when downward movement in pad weight had given me objective data to confirm a vague notion that my pads are lighter and that I am leaking less. Somebody on this forum has to continue the measurement tradition! Seriously, at a teaspoon and 1/2 over a 13 hour work day is not something that provides a lot of physical feedback. I feel a little weeping here and there when I walk or get up quickly. Lost the big spurts that were common months ago.
Mike S.
Dx 56
Biopsy: Gleason 3+3=6, PSA 6.6 One core of 12 with 5% T1c
Surgery: July 2010 J. Hopkins
Path: Gleason 6, Neg Mar, Neg LN, Neg Sem Ves
9/15/10 1st post op PSA <0.1 undetectable
3/11/11 PSA - <0.1
Aug -Sept 2010 - 4-5 pads
Oct 2010 3 pads
Nov 2010 2 pads
Dec - Mar 2011 1 pad all day -slight leaking
ED: slow steady improvements

Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3741
   Posted 5/12/2011 8:39 AM (GMT -6)   
Mike,
Ahh... I'm so proud of you! Are you plotting it in Excel and adding both linear and second order trend lines? How else will you know when to expect your "Zero" dry date. Then you plot that date and watch if it remains the same or begins to move out. I decided on surgery when my dry date moved to infinity.

You are already at such a low level you might begin to see the effects of evaporation. In the winter you will evaporate about 8 ml per day. Stay below that level and you won't feel any wetness. The only evidence will be a stain.

Sub-measurable leak. Awesome.

Jeff
Age: 58, Mar 35 yrs, 56 dx, PSA: 4/09 17.8 6/09 23.2
Biopsy: 6/09 7 of 12 Pos, 20-70%, Gleason 4+3 Bone, CT Neg
DaVinci RP: 7/09, U of Roch Med Ctr
Path Rpt: Glsn 3+4, pT3aNOMx, 56g, Tumor 2.5x1.8 cm both lobes and apex
EPE present, PNI extensive, Sem Ves, Vas def clear, Lymph 0/13
Incont: 200ml/day ED: Trimix
Post Surg PSA: 10/09 .04, 4/10 .04, 7/10 <0.01, 12/10 <0.01
AdVance Sling 1/10/11 Dry

Post Edited (Worried Guy) : 5/12/2011 8:03:07 AM (GMT-6)


MikeS24
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 131
   Posted 5/12/2011 12:53 PM (GMT -6)   
Jeff: Yes, I plot in excel but do not perform any special statistical modeling to my simple recording of my 13 hour segments. I merely record the date, day of the week, gross weight of the pad after 13 hours of use, the weight of the pad before using it and then the used pad weight minus the unused pad weight. I add notes to mark activities during the day (more walking or standing) Then I just plot net amount of urine output on the y axis and the date on the x axis. I also break out my workdays from my weekends by simple copy and paste of sections of the aggregate data. I like to see if weekends are very different from weekdays and in turn compare it to the entire combined weekdays and weekends. With more activity on weekends my current totals can be 10 to 14 cc for the same 13 hours. However, even those number are starting to fall below 10 cc. I am curious as to how much the pad weight varies when measuring a virgin pad. Tena mens guards can be anywhere from 19 to 21 grams. Depends were the most consistent at around 23 grams per pad.

I think I will have to leave my zero dry date a mystery. First, due to lack of Excel and stat ability to create the trend line. Second, while not a scientific explanation, my rudimentary examination of the data shows me that this healing process has no predictability. It stops and stays the same for a few weeks and then gets a bit worse, then a bit better. I also don't want to have the added burden of worrying that my progress is not meeting the predicted trend line. That is just more anxiety than I need and since I can't do anything about it, why suffer needlessly? I also don't want to skew the data, i.e., wall less or be inactive at times so I get a better leakage outcome at the end of the day. I want to keep activities as close to normal as possible.

It also helped when my doctor suggested that I cut back on fluid intake. Jeff, I was using the model of fluid consumption that you posted. At an average of 72 oz or 1,900 cc per day, my doctor said to drink when thirsty and not in accord with a preset amount of liquid. It has helped to not overload my bladder and leak needlessly. However, old habits never die out quickly and I find I am still coming close to 60+ oz per day.

Just letting nature take its course. Thanks for the encouragement.
Mike S.
Dx 56
Biopsy: Gleason 3+3=6, PSA 6.6 One core of 12 with 5% T1c
Surgery: July 2010 J. Hopkins
Path: Gleason 6, Neg Mar, Neg LN, Neg Sem Ves
9/15/10 1st post op PSA <0.1 undetectable
3/11/11 PSA - <0.1
Aug -Sept 2010 - 4-5 pads
Oct 2010 3 pads
Nov 2010 2 pads
Dec - Mar 2011 1 pad all day -slight leaking
ED: slow steady improvements

Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3741
   Posted 5/12/2011 2:58 PM (GMT -6)   
Ahhh... Grasshopper. You have learned your lessons well.
Confucius once said "If a man collects data, he must exist." This expression was picked up 2100 years later by Descartes who changed it to: "I think, therefore I am." But we know the truth.

My linear and 2nd order forecasts were based upon the the entire data set - not simply the last few data points. The curve was relatively insensitive to single day variations since it incorporated the hundreds of previous readings.
The program saw the writing on the wall well before I did. My stubbornness (or tenacity) caused me to wait 7 months after the Uro felt it should be done and 3 months after the forecast first indicated it was a lost cause. I continued resist and take data but eventually I gave in and got it done.

When summer comes it will be interesting to see how much I really leak. Don't worry. .I will start taking data again.

Jeff (I pee, therefore I am.)
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