Anyone living significantly > 10 years?

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gadget
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 55
   Posted 5/14/2011 8:47 AM (GMT -6)   
Sorry - don't mean to sound negative, I'm having my biopsy on Tuesday and all sorts of things go through your head, as I'm sure you guys all well know.  My numbers aren't off the charts, so that's good and I'm hoping, if there is something, it's early. 
 
The deal is, I'm 48, and I think the tougher part is coming to grips with the fact that I'm not in my 30's anymore and may be at least at the top of the hill if not starting to look down the other side.  I've always thought of PCa as something that may come up in my 60's or 70's - which I guess doesn't make it any better, but more expected?  I really feel for these guys getting it in their 30's!!  I do keep telling myself that at my age, I should recover quicker and in some ways this is a blessing.
 
So my question - I see all these stats about 5 and 10 year survival rates, but don't see much about what's beyond that...and frankly at my age, I want more than 10, I'll take it, but I really want to be an old man :)  Other than this, I'm in shape, run 3 miles a day, weights 3 x a week, eat fairly well.  And 10 years to these guys in their 30's isn't going to cut it either.  I want a good 20 to 30 and I'm not taking less!
 
Thanks for listening!

Galileo
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 697
   Posted 5/14/2011 9:01 AM (GMT -6)   
My dad seems to have been cured about 20 years ago with cryo. His PSA never came back, and he enjoys his life immensely (now pushing 80) and is very active physically.

gadget
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 55
   Posted 5/14/2011 9:07 AM (GMT -6)   
Exactly what I LOVE to hear!

pattersson
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2010
Total Posts : 97
   Posted 5/14/2011 9:35 AM (GMT -6)   
We're about the same age. I do not know your stats, but basically you probably have a significant chance of complete cure. That does not mean that you'll live 30 years though,who knows the sky may fall on our heads tomorrow. cool
Radical prostactemy 10/2006 @42, PSA 3.9, Gleason 3+4
PSA <0.2 2006-2009

PSA 0.14 01/2010
0.07 05/2010
0.06 10/2010

Fairwind
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 3747
   Posted 5/14/2011 12:15 PM (GMT -6)   
The doctors consider you cured when you are still alive 10 years out...That tends to paint a pretty rosy picture of PC survivability..Here is a great site where hundreds of men have posted their histories. You can sort out their stories by using several different filters..

Many men are indeed cured, never to be bothered by PC again. Others can go 10, 15 even 20 years before the dreaded PSA number starts to climb again....

With all the new stuff in the pipeline, maybe by then, they will have found something that actually works...

www.yananow.org/Links.html
Age 68.
PSA age 55: 3.5, DRE normal.
age 58: 4.5
61: 5.2
64: 7.5, DRE "Abnormal"
65: 8.5, " normal", biopsy, 12 core, negative...
66 9.0 "normal", 2ed biopsy, negative, BPH, Proscar
67 4.5 DRE "normal"
68 7.0 3rd biopsy positive, 4 out of 12, G-6,7, 9
RALP Sept 3 2010, pos margin, one pos vesicle nodes neg. Post Op PSA 0.9 SRT, HT. 2-15-'11 PSA 0.0

davidg
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 4093
   Posted 5/14/2011 12:29 PM (GMT -6)   
most studies don't go beyond ten years. Doesn't mean you're going to drop dead tenth year. Another thing about those studies is that they were done before the many advances in the field that we now enjoy. This includes fantastic quality of life advances with surgery.

If caught early, and if not advanced, there are extremely high chances of us living full lives and not dying of PCa. I'm 40 btw.

I also know plenty of people who took care of it in the 90 by open surgery and are doing fine now a good 16+ years later.

You touch on an important issue for guys in our demographic, we're fighting for another 40-50 years, not another 10-15 and that makes it very different for us.
40 years old - Diagnosed at 40
Robotic Surgery Mount Sinai with Dr. Samadi Jan, 2011
complete urinary control and good erections with and without meds
Prostate was small, 34 grams.
Final Gleason score 7 (3+4)
Less than 5% of slides involved tumor
Tumor measured 5 mm in greatest dimension and was located in the right lobe near the apex.
Tumor was confined to prostate.
The apical, basal, pseudocapsular and soft tissue resection margins were free of tumor.
Seminal vesicles were free of tumor.
Right pelvic node - benign fibroadiopse tissue. no lymph node is identified.
Left pelvic node - one small lymph node, negative for tumor (0/1)

AJCC stage: pT2 NO MX

ralfinaz
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2011
Total Posts : 735
   Posted 5/14/2011 12:33 PM (GMT -6)   
Gadget,
The key is to remain positive. I was diagnosed with locally advanced prostate cancer almost 20 years ago at age 58. I never gave up and will be 78 in July.
Can't say it has been a walk in the park, but... Be positive and help yourself by helping others!

RalphV

F8
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3802
   Posted 5/14/2011 12:34 PM (GMT -6)   
>>You touch on an important issue for guys in our demographic, we're fighting for another 40-50 years, not another 10-15 and that makes it very different for us.<<
 
i'm sure older guys feel they have less to lose rolleyes .
 
ed
 
 
age: 56
PSA on 12/09: 6.8
gleason 3+4 = 7
HT, BT and IGRT
received 3rd and last lupron shot 9/14/10
2/8/11 PSA <.1, T= 6 ng/dl

davidg
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 4093
   Posted 5/14/2011 12:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Do you really think that is what I meant? seriously, do you?

old guys don't have as many years to fight/hope and deal with it. That is what i obviously meant. If all goes well I have 40-50 years to live with this. That will be more than half my life. If I got prostate cancer at 65 or 70 my mindset would be that I would have to try and survive at least 15 years and that that would be okay. Big difference.

I'm talking about being able to try and make sure my kids ( still in grade school and middle school ) are set for the future and that their children, my grandchildren, are doing ok. A 65-70 year old will likely already have answers to those questions on diagnosis. a 40 year old? not even close, I didn't even have a will at the time of my diagnosis.

Many people have told me that getting it this early is even more tragic.
40 years old - Diagnosed at 40
Robotic Surgery Mount Sinai with Dr. Samadi Jan, 2011
complete urinary control and good erections with and without meds
Prostate was small, 34 grams.
Final Gleason score 7 (3+4)
Less than 5% of slides involved tumor
Tumor measured 5 mm in greatest dimension and was located in the right lobe near the apex.
Tumor was confined to prostate.
The apical, basal, pseudocapsular and soft tissue resection margins were free of tumor.
Seminal vesicles were free of tumor.
Right pelvic node - benign fibroadiopse tissue. no lymph node is identified.
Left pelvic node - one small lymph node, negative for tumor (0/1)

AJCC stage: pT2 NO MX

tvwohio
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 172
   Posted 5/14/2011 12:48 PM (GMT -6)   
It will be 10 years for me June 22.   I was 50 when I was dx with PC.
I plane on living about 35 more years if my wife doesn't kill me for being horny some times smhair
 
Laughing aside some of youngster's who get it prior to 60's and 70's probably have more options if PC reappears.
 
If you saw the options 10 years ago - seeds just starting to be used, hormones or surgery, to me it is amazing what they are doing now to cure the disease as well as procedures now in place.
 
You have just started down the path of recovery.  Just live each day and not worry about tomorrow because  tomorrow is tomorrow and you cannot do anything about it.
 
Live, Laugh and Love - enjoy your special people and find others to share your life.
 
Tom of Ohio
Prostrate Cancer 2001 RP 50 years old PSA 6.8 Gleason 3 + 2 40% T3bNxMo moderately differentiated adenocarcinoma RP - cancer apex area, nerve sparing not successful Bulking using both collagen and teflex unsuccessful for continence. 4 sets of strictures within 1 yr after RP - 3 manual and 1 rotorotor -9/2010 stricture - suprapubic catheter folled by Homan Laser. AMS800 1/22/11. Dry 3/9/2011

davidg
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 4093
   Posted 5/14/2011 12:52 PM (GMT -6)   
i hope to be able to live that way, Tom. I'm trying.
40 years old - Diagnosed at 40
Robotic Surgery Mount Sinai with Dr. Samadi Jan, 2011
complete urinary control and good erections with and without meds
Prostate was small, 34 grams.
Final Gleason score 7 (3+4)
Less than 5% of slides involved tumor
Tumor measured 5 mm in greatest dimension and was located in the right lobe near the apex.
Tumor was confined to prostate.
The apical, basal, pseudocapsular and soft tissue resection margins were free of tumor.
Seminal vesicles were free of tumor.
Right pelvic node - benign fibroadiopse tissue. no lymph node is identified.
Left pelvic node - one small lymph node, negative for tumor (0/1)

AJCC stage: pT2 NO MX

F8
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3802
   Posted 5/14/2011 1:06 PM (GMT -6)   
Davidg -- alot of people get seriously ill and die much younger than 40.  i'm sure many of us think we have more at stake than the next guy.  fact is you don't have the foggiest idea of what an older guy thinks.
 
ed
 
 
age: 56
PSA on 12/09: 6.8
gleason 3+4 = 7
HT, BT and IGRT
received 3rd and last lupron shot 9/14/10
2/8/11 PSA <.1, T= 6 ng/dl

davidg
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 4093
   Posted 5/14/2011 1:20 PM (GMT -6)   
i know he has a lot less time than me on paper to think about it though. That's my point and I didn't invent the rules.
40 years old - Diagnosed at 40
Robotic Surgery Mount Sinai with Dr. Samadi Jan, 2011
complete urinary control and good erections with and without meds
Prostate was small, 34 grams.
Final Gleason score 7 (3+4)
Less than 5% of slides involved tumor
Tumor measured 5 mm in greatest dimension and was located in the right lobe near the apex.
Tumor was confined to prostate.
The apical, basal, pseudocapsular and soft tissue resection margins were free of tumor.
Seminal vesicles were free of tumor.
Right pelvic node - benign fibroadiopse tissue. no lymph node is identified.
Left pelvic node - one small lymph node, negative for tumor (0/1)

AJCC stage: pT2 NO MX

Fairwind
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 3747
   Posted 5/14/2011 2:39 PM (GMT -6)   
"You have just started down the path of recovery. Just live each day and not worry about tomorrow because tomorrow is tomorrow and you cannot do anything about it.

Live, Laugh and Love - enjoy your special people and find others to share your life.

Tom of Ohio" Bravo! That says it all. Just play the hand you are holding, don't worry about the hand you may hold next month...
Age 68.
PSA age 55: 3.5, DRE normal.
age 58: 4.5
61: 5.2
64: 7.5, DRE "Abnormal"
65: 8.5, " normal", biopsy, 12 core, negative...
66 9.0 "normal", 2ed biopsy, negative, BPH, Proscar
67 4.5 DRE "normal"
68 7.0 3rd biopsy positive, 4 out of 12, G-6,7, 9
RALP Sept 3 2010, pos margin, one pos vesicle nodes neg. Post Op PSA 0.9 SRT, HT. 2-15-'11 PSA 0.0

Tim G
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 2301
   Posted 5/14/2011 3:29 PM (GMT -6)   
I had a friend who had prostate cancer diagnosed and treated by prostatectomy when he was in his 60s. He died a few months ago at age 97 of old age. My uncle (91) had a prostatectomy in his sixties. He has other medical issues, but no recurrence of prostate cancer.

I'm hoping to hit 90-something, cancer free.

Postop
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 385
   Posted 5/14/2011 4:00 PM (GMT -6)   
To answer this question with statistics (reference www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21542742), a whole lot of people are alive at >10 years out:

The Scandinavian study where men with prostate cancer were randomized between surgery, and "watchful waiting" (no treatment, at least at the beginning):

15 years out from treatment:

All men: 46.1% died from any cause in surgical group, 52.7% in watchful waiting group
All men: 14.6% died of prostate cancer in surgical group; 20.7% in watchful waiting group
All men: 21.7% have distant metastases in surgical group; 33.4% in watchful waiting group

Men less than 65 years old at time of entering study: 33.9% died in surgical group; 47.4% in in watchful waiting group
Men less than 65 years old: 16.4% died of prostate cancer in surgical group; 25.8% in watchful waiting group
Men less than 65 years old: 21.5% have distant metastases in surgical group; 39.8% in watchful waiting group

Men 65 or older: 56.7% died in surgical group; 57.4% died in watchful waiting group
Men 65 or older: 13.0% died of prostate cancer in surgical group; 16.0% died in watchful waiting group
Men 65 or older: 22.1% have distant metastases in surgical group; 27.5% in watchful waiting group

Most of these men had their cancer discovered because of symptoms, or an abnormal prostate exam, but there was a subgroup of "low risk" prostate cancer (Gleason 6 at biopsy, PSA <10 at entry in study):

Low risk, <65: 16.9% died in surgical group; 36.2% died in watchful waiting group
Low risk, <65: 7.1% died of prostate cancer in surgical group; 11.6% in watchful waiting group
Low risk, <65: 9.5% have distant metastases in surgical group; 20.6 % in watchful waiting group


What does this mean?
1. Prostate cancer isn't a death sentence for many. Most men will die of something else
2. Surgery reduces your risk of death, a bit, if you are less than 65 years old, even a little bit for men with lower risk prostate cancer.
3. If you are over 65 when diagnosed, there is an even higher chance that you'll die of something else, and surgery doesn't do anything measurable to extend your life, at least in this study.
4. If you look at risks of things like getting metastases or local extension, and not just the risk of dying, the benefits of surgery are greater. That is, if you don't treat the prostate cancer, you might well be alive 15 years later, but you may be dealing with more problems from the prostate cancer, and have to get treatments like hormone therapy.

BobCape
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 416
   Posted 5/14/2011 4:51 PM (GMT -6)   
f8, I think youre being a little hard on davidg. To suggest that there is no substantial difference between a person getting i'll when they are 80, instead of 30, for example, is silly.

I know an 80 year old guy has a life expenctancy of 76.
A 30 year old guy has 46 more years of median life expectancy.

Even your doctor would tell you that is a huge distinction.
He's apt to tell the 80 year old that watchful waiting is his best move.
Where he wouldnt suggest that to the 30/40 year old with the same pca.

THAT is a fact of life, THAT is why we morn when young kids die before being able to experience life.. and why we often feel comfort when an older person passes, since he was able to live life to the fullest.

Thats my take. I wouldnt take those comments to heart davidg!

logoslidat
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 5828
   Posted 5/14/2011 5:13 PM (GMT -6)   
Davidg when I saw your post, I said what is he talking about? Then I remembered I put F8 on ignore long time ago. I dont like to put anyone on ignore, but imo he has a mean spirit. Very sensitive in a negative way. Kind of a prodigal brother, he at some point will realize that, Hopah, hopah, hopah! I did not think it was just a bad day, my experience with him, too mean and cutting............ Your comment was as true as it gets, Im 68 now and am quite sure, all things being equal, I will die in my 90's and if its from PCA, I will give the devil his pound of flesh with a big smile on my puss. With your fitness regime you should to, specially with the advances on the horizon. Its all accelerating in an accelerating way. scool Logo ps That also applies if I die earlier. BTW, you may have me on ignore, if so, just ignore this turn
Diagnosed 8/14/09 psa 8.1 66,now 67
2cores 70%, rest 6-7 < 5%
gleason 3+ 3, up to 3+4 @ the dub
RPP U of Wash, Bruce Dalkin,
pathology 4+3, tertiary5, 2 foci
extensive pni, prostate confined,27 nodes removed -, svi - margins -
99%continent@ cath removal. 1% incont@gaspass,sneeze,cough 18 mos, squirt @ running. psa std test reported on paper as 0.0 as of 12/14/10 ed improving

Post Edited (logoslidat) : 5/14/2011 5:24:24 PM (GMT-6)


Squirm
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 744
   Posted 5/14/2011 5:35 PM (GMT -6)   
I think it's safe to say the vast majority of men (around 90%?) in the post psa era are still alive after ten years. I don't remember where I saw that data, but perhaps that is common knowledge. I also believe that by using age specific psa and lower psa cut off points, such as 2.5, and psa velocity to trigger a biopsy, the percentage of survival after ten years will increase.

In addition, perhaps in time, there will be better studies that can indicate which treatment is best given the tumor characteristics. It seems the treatment strategy is still a toss up.

On the other hand, if you're asking individuals on a prostate cancer forum, there will probably be a bias.

davidg
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 4093
   Posted 5/14/2011 6:15 PM (GMT -6)   
course not, why would I have you on ignore?

I didn't want to be misunderstood. Not minimizing our disease for anyone, but trust me, getting it at 40 is even harder to accept probably. I know that my dad, who is younger than most of you, felt terrible about it all on many levels, but one was particularly because of my age. He felt our roles were reversed.

Bob, two of the urologists I first saw and my surgeon are all my age more or less, maybe a couple of years older at most. They all made a point to tell me how telling me and treating me hit especially close to home with them because we were peers. We try to go as long as possible without any major health issues, doesn't mean we will, but when caught at 40 ( some younger ) with something of this magnitude we really feel the potential to have been robbed of substantial time. It's an extra component that we have to come to terms with while already having to deal with cancer itself. F8 probably misunderstood me.
40 years old - Diagnosed at 40
Robotic Surgery Mount Sinai with Dr. Samadi Jan, 2011
complete urinary control and good erections with and without meds
Prostate was small, 34 grams.
Final Gleason score 7 (3+4)
Less than 5% of slides involved tumor
Tumor measured 5 mm in greatest dimension and was located in the right lobe near the apex.
Tumor was confined to prostate.
The apical, basal, pseudocapsular and soft tissue resection margins were free of tumor.
Seminal vesicles were free of tumor.
Right pelvic node - benign fibroadiopse tissue. no lymph node is identified.
Left pelvic node - one small lymph node, negative for tumor (0/1)

AJCC stage: pT2 NO MX

compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7205
   Posted 5/14/2011 6:25 PM (GMT -6)   
Davidg:
 
I will be 65 next month.
 
You are correct in your assumption.. I would very much hope for 15 more years with a decent QOL.
 
At age 40...well... you've expressed it well.
 
F8, I have noticed it too: you do seem to have a subtle mean-spirited streak.
 
Mel

Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3732
   Posted 5/14/2011 7:31 PM (GMT -6)   
Who knows what medical science will bring in 20 years. Heck, in 20 years stem cell research might have advanced so far we can all grow our prostates back - if we wanted them.

Jeff
Age: 58, Mar 35 yrs, 56 dx, PSA: 4/09 17.8 6/09 23.2
Biopsy: 6/09 7 of 12 Pos, 20-70%, Gleason 4+3 Bone, CT Neg
DaVinci RP: 7/09, U of Roch Med Ctr
Path Rpt: Glsn 3+4, pT3aNOMx, 56g, Tumor 2.5x1.8 cm both lobes and apex
EPE present, PNI extensive, Sem Ves, Vas def clear, Lymph 0/13
Incont: 200ml/day ED: Trimix
Post Surg PSA: 10/09 .04, 4/10 .04, 7/10 <0.01, 12/10 <0.01
AdVance Sling 1/10/11 Dry

F8
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3802
   Posted 5/14/2011 8:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Mel -- we all have our issues.
 
ed
age: 56
PSA on 12/09: 6.8
gleason 3+4 = 7
HT, BT and IGRT
received 3rd and last lupron shot 9/14/10
2/8/11 PSA <.1, T= 6 ng/dl

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 5/14/2011 8:13 PM (GMT -6)   
This seems like a no-brainer to me. Getting PC at 36-45, and we are picking up more younger men all the time, is a lot scarier than picking it up in one's 60s or 70s. Common sense there. I was considered way on the young side when dx at 56 by my uro, in his particular practice, he said his average dx age was closer to 68, This one time I understand where davidg is coming from.

I am 58 still, and passed the curative hope and now in the early part of advanced PC. I am not fearful for the future, but not stupid either, I can do the math in my case. I view every life as equal, whether one is 40 or 80. I want to see my grandchildren grow up (ages 6 and 9 and have children of their own. That may or may not happen to me.

Just my take on these remarks. F8 (Ed), I do think you were a bit over the edge on that one. But I don't believe in the ignore button, not my style, and I am against anything that resembles censorship, even if its self-imposed.

Lets live and let live. We all want to live, that's for sure.

David in SC
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06, 2/11 1.24, 4/11 3.81
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10

F8
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3802
   Posted 5/14/2011 8:32 PM (GMT -6)   
>>Just my take on these remarks. F8 (Ed), I do think you were a bit over the edge on that one. But I don't believe in the ignore button, not my style, and I am against anything that resembles censorship, even if its self-imposed.<<
 
fair enough David.  i don't use the ignore button either.  if i did i wouldn't hide behind it to talk bad about the person i am allegedly ignoring.
 
ed
 


 
age: 56
PSA on 12/09: 6.8
gleason 3+4 = 7
HT, BT and IGRT
received 3rd and last lupron shot 9/14/10
2/8/11 PSA <.1, T= 6 ng/dl
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