Why there will not be a cure for cancer... only a treatment

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don826
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Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 1010
   Posted 5/20/2011 10:43 AM (GMT -6)   

Fairwind
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Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 3786
   Posted 5/20/2011 11:00 AM (GMT -6)   
Today, it's all about the dollars, sad but true....If some $2 drug could CURE cancer, it would be a DISASTER for the health-care industry...
Age 68.
PSA age 55: 3.5, DRE normal.
age 58: 4.5
61: 5.2
64: 7.5, DRE "Abnormal"
65: 8.5, " normal", biopsy, 12 core, negative...
66 9.0 "normal", 2ed biopsy, negative, BPH, Proscar
67 4.5 DRE "normal"
68 7.0 3rd biopsy positive, 4 out of 12, G-6,7, 9
RALP Sept 3 2010, pos margin, one pos vesicle nodes neg. Post Op PSA 0.9 SRT, HT. 2-15-'11 PSA 0.0

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 5/20/2011 12:29 PM (GMT -6)   
If there were such a thing, I do not believe it would be repressed just for the bucks, sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. Cancer in any form, is a complex thing, and there just aren't any quick fixes or easy answers in my opinion.
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06, 2/11 1.24, 4/11 3.81
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10

zufus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3149
   Posted 5/20/2011 12:55 PM (GMT -6)   
Don- DCA is found useful for sure on some type of brain cancers, findings in Canada, there is a youtube of this doctor whom endorsed it as useful on many cancers and warned about the naysayers, too. Surely controversial, so what isn't in cancers anyway. Who wants to cure cancer when the average cancer patient (all types) is worth like $500-800,000 in the system.

Anyway FDA here doesn't endorse it for anything right now (says you cannot have it-LOL), of course no patents either, it is cheap. You can buy it outside the USA and have it shipped, still pretty cheap. May or may not do anything for PCa, one would have to try some amount and measure psa's to see. A man in Canada did this for PCa, he did chart that it slowed down his doubling times....so considering it probably cost him under $100 to slow his doubling times....probably a steal in price compared to the junk they want to sell us. I did a little looking into this, alot is unknown as to how much to take and how often....looks like you do not want to take a large amount, say a tablespoon is to much, however the side effects talked about are reversible as to the nerve related possibility if you take to much.

There are other novel herbs, drugs or concepts for cancers....I suggest some idealist/idiot whom thought like Bill Gates or Steve Jobs...works in their garage and changes the world. Catch those giants sleeping again...whom needs a PC anyway??? (boy were they dumb back then). Some men have vision and other wear bi-focals ('Butch Cassidy' line) LOL

F8
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Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3838
   Posted 5/20/2011 1:30 PM (GMT -6)   
"There is a fifth dimension...beyond which is known to man. It is dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fear and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination.
It is an area which we call, The Tin Foil Hat Zone."
 
 
my apologies to Rod Serling cool .
 
ed
age: 56
PSA on 12/09: 6.8
gleason 3+4 = 7
HT, BT and IGRT
received 3rd and last lupron shot 9/14/10
2/8/11 PSA <.1, T= 6 ng/dl

Steve n Dallas
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 4835
   Posted 5/20/2011 1:43 PM (GMT -6)   
Stemming the tide of careless science reporting, one post at a time
 
"It will come as no surprise to those interested in science that there is a lot of shoddy science coverage out there. The past week alone featured two very poorly reported stories. The first is a zombie conspiracy theory about evil drug companies, and the second is a paper that lays the blame for the global bee decline on GSM cellphones."
 
The zombie in question concerns dichloroacetate (DCA), which conspiracy theorists would have us believe is a cancer cure-all that's being suppressed by the might of big pharma, which is upset that it's not patent-eligible. It's an odd conspiracy, since the Orphan Drug Act would probably allow the FDA to grant market exclusivity to whichever company conducted the relevant trials, but fist-waving about evil drug companies makes for much better copy.
 
For a more thorough debunking of the DCA zombie, PZ Myers and Orac have both got you covered. In short, there have been promising animal results, but no clinical trials have been completed at this point. Why the DCA story continues to come back from the dead, we're not sure. The article claims a 2011 date for the press release it regurgitates, but it also links to the researcher's website where an identical press release seems to have been published almost exactly a year ago."

RobertC
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 1302
   Posted 5/20/2011 3:34 PM (GMT -6)   
I don't see a conspiracy.
But I think there is a Catch-22 situation. If a drug company started to work on DCA it might take 10-12 years to get it approved at a cost of maybe 400 million dollars and the chemical would still be available at a cheap price from overseas sources. It sells on the internet now.
That might be a strong incentive for companies not to finance clinical trials.
The FDA would never approve the medicine without the expensive and very slow clinical trials.

If non-profits slowly get grants to study DCA, if could take 15+ year to determine its effectiveness.
I see that Dr. Khan has been offering DCA in Canada since 2007.www.medicorcancer.com/PromisingTherapies.html
We have no idea if DCA is especially effective and with the current system it will be a very long time before anyone knows.

Post Edited (robertcool) : 5/20/2011 2:40:10 PM (GMT-6)


don826
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 1010
   Posted 5/20/2011 4:04 PM (GMT -6)   
I suppose I should have noted that what I found most interesting about the article. besides the potential cure, is the lack of interest by any organiztion either non or for profit in developing or researching the drug. It noted that only $1.5 MM had been spent in research and that raised by private donation. It also mentioned the Salk vaccine and that is a most interesting story as there was a competing drug that proved not to be as good but got to market first. Consider this... if the polio vaccine were to be developed today with no profit incentive the iron lung manufacturers would be doing a booming business. I read an article a few months back that indicated that over the last 10 years not one drug approved by the FDA was targeted at a cure of the disease it was focused on. All were merely palliative in nature.
 
I am as much a capitalist as the next guy and fully understand that without profit incentive there is no development. Afterall health care is a business not a charity. I also understand the need to protect the public from snake oil salesmen and con artist. Just seems that the burden of proof in these situations is perhaps overdone vs. the risk/reward.
 
I recently asked my urologist about using an alternative hormone that is somewhat less expensive than Lupron but has fallen out of favor. It was once the drug of choice for advanced PCa. He turned me down flat and would not even consider it. I am sure there is some avoidance of liability in the reply and cannot fault him for that.
 
Don

zufus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3149
   Posted 5/20/2011 7:29 PM (GMT -6)   
Don- very interesting information and history, only confirms my thoughts...
 
Robertcool- very cool of you to post that information and incite onto the whole question/issues.
 
F-8:  you know I like Rod Serling and the Twilight Zone...makes PCa look more fictional.


Thanks

Post Edited (zufus) : 5/20/2011 6:33:23 PM (GMT-6)


Fairwind
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 3786
   Posted 5/20/2011 9:53 PM (GMT -6)   
Where can I get some?? I'll let you know if it works...

Tim G
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Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 2313
   Posted 5/21/2011 12:18 AM (GMT -6)   
The best cure will be a vaccine that targets prostate cancer cells.  Some of the young molecular scientists working today may provide this cure for a future generation of men. 

English Alf
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 2216
   Posted 5/21/2011 4:33 AM (GMT -6)   
"Cancer" is not a single disease, it is unlikely that one cure will ever be able to tackle all cancers, but it would be nice if one could be found!

If drug companies are "misbehaving" by supressing drugs that work in favour of drugs that make profits, then it might be another example of the "unacceptable face of capitalism" a phrase first used by Sir Edward Heath (Former UK Prime Minister and Mrs Thacher's predecessor as leader of the Conservative Party) But that's enough politics!

We shall wait and see.

Alf
Age dx 48
Apr 09 PSA 8.6
DRE neg
Biop 2/12 pos
Gleason 3+3
Jul 09 DaVinci AVL-NKI Amsterdam
6 Aug 09 Cath out
PostOp Gleason 3+4 Bladder neck & Left SVI -T3b
No perin’l No vasc invasion Clear margins
Dry at night
21 Sep 09 No pads daytime
Nov 09 PSA 0.1
Mar 10 PSA 0.4 sent to RT
13 Apr CT
RT 66Gy ends 11 Jun 10
Tired + weird BMs
Sep 10 PSA <0.1
Jan 11 PSA <0.1
Apr 11 PSA <0.1
Erection OK

BobCape
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 416
   Posted 5/21/2011 7:32 AM (GMT -6)   
questionaboutit, you conveyed my very thoughts to a tee. To think that EVERYthing and EVERYone along the chain is about money, or would surpress information leading to a cure for cancer, is rediculous.
 
There are thousands upon thousands of companies (and universities) - big and small - working on improving the human medical condition. None as big a challenge as is cancer.
 
Any one of them, 99% lets say, would give their left n** to find a cure for cancer. The Nobel Prizes, the financial rewards, the personal & corporate pride would be unequalled.
 
As if there wouldn't be ONE (more likely countless) doctors who would "blow the whistle".
 
Something tells me that little boys and girls dont grow up and spend 1/2 their lives in medical school, hundreds of thousands in debt, dealing with pain and sadness, because they wanted to help the drug companies make more moeny.
 
It's as silly as the world ending today.. imagine all the wasted nerve cells, all the worry about Gleason, staging, and the rest... if it ALL ended today anyway, regardless of cancer.
 
Live life today, that is what you have. Live now. That is all that ANY of us can count on. Cancer or not.
 
I have a saying that for some reason I've used for years, long before PCA.. "I plan on living my life while i'm alive".

RobertC
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 1302
   Posted 5/21/2011 8:40 AM (GMT -6)   
I did a search on clinical trials of the DCA chemical. There were more trials, some not of cancer, than I expected.
clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=Dichloroacetate

don826
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 1010
   Posted 5/21/2011 9:44 AM (GMT -6)   
I think some folks have missed the point. No where in the article does it say this is a "conspiracy" to "suppress" a cure nor was it implied. The take away is that without some promise of a return on investment the pharma business can not and most likely will not invest in research and facilites to produce a drug. 
 
As for companies abandoning less profitable drugs that is going on now. A recent article on the evening news showed that some of the medicines in short supply were no longer being manufactured due to consolodation in the pharma industry and those companies were abandoning the less profitable medicines as cost cutting measures.
 
My thought is that it will take a non profit or government grant to further the research of the drugs (DCA) impact on cancer. The success of the researcher in this article was modest and no where on the scale of a disciplined experiment. I just thought it deserved a more in depth look.
 
As for self medication and using this on one's own I would advise that you take care as one of the side effects is liver damage. Would not want to trade one problem for another or worse yet wind up with two really nasty problems.
 
Don
 
 

English Alf
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 2216
   Posted 5/21/2011 11:07 AM (GMT -6)   
I wasn't suggesting there is a conspiracy. (I am an "anti-conspiracy theorist").

The usual way a company that produces or sells many products keeps its bottom line healthy invovles accepting that some products will sell better than others and that there will thus be an element of cross-subsidy: be it grocery stores or book publishers. This thinking has of late been disappearing from some companies as they remove the less profitable products from their range. (It's not specifically drug comapnies, but having detected it in many areas of business, it suggests that it might exist across the board)

Alf

Piano
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 847
   Posted 5/21/2011 4:56 PM (GMT -6)   
I don't think there is any conspiracy here either. I can also see the point that a company is not going to spend big bucks running a clinical trial if it does not see big bucks at the end of it. But if the case is compelling enough, then the trials/studies are still done -- I'm thinking here of aspirin.

Suppose DCA was effective in reducing PSA in 50% of PCa cases -- in other words highly successful. News like that would spread like wildfire, if nowhere else, in forums like this one.

This has not happened. So I think the best we could hope for is that DCA is somewhat effective in some cases. Will it work for you? Only one way to find out: a trial of one -- with your doc's approval of course.
No symptoms; PSA 5.7; Gleason 4+5=9; cancer in 4/12 cores
Non-nerve-sparing RRP 7 March 2008 age 63
Organ confined, neg margins. Gleason downgrade 4+4=8
Fully continent
Bimix worked well; now using just VED
PSA undetectable at first but then rose to 0.4, doubling time 7 months
Following diet change, PSA static at 0.4...
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