Sorry about this - but!!!!!

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Ausboy
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2011
Total Posts : 92
   Posted 5/24/2011 3:44 AM (GMT -6)   
Hello
I don't normally post this type of stuff but I heard this guy speaking on the radio today, he sounded very passionate and was very excited about the findings of his study, he is from a prostate cancer research centre at one of Australia's top medical Universities and they don't get excited often, he said this was a very major breakthru and the best part is that the compound (PSP) was already commercially available. If interested follow link: http://www.news.qut.edu.au/cgi-bin/WebObjects/News.woa/wa/goNewsPage?newsEventid=35959
he said it works on prostate cancer stem cells and was the first time a compound worked @100% effectiveness in trials.
It is still a long way from being proven or used in human trials but never the less, it is credible research.
 
sorry if this offends some I know everyone gets the creeps with hearing all these alternate cures, I do as well, I've been told everthing from, shove a scoured clove of garlic up your butt to eat a kg of tomatoes a day and don't eat chocolate or drink this or that. 
Anyway I hope some find it interestng, thanks. 
Ausboy

age 49, dx 21-01-2011 PSA 5.6
12 cores all positive >80% in some, Gleason 3+3=6, T2B
RALP 10-03-2011, post OP pathology, Gleason 4+3=7 and 1% 5+4=9
Prostate 50g, 48mmx40mmx40mm, largest tumor 48mmx34mmx24mm, extensive PIN also present, EPE left apex .2mm, perineural invasion, clear margins closest was .7mm, lymph nodes not checked.
path stage pT3A Nx Mx R0
post OP PSA ? 11/5/2011 - 0.03

Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3739
   Posted 5/24/2011 4:58 AM (GMT -6)   
I did some checking and went to the link from Queensland University.

A couple of key points:

1) The trial was done on transgenic mice.
2) They stated no mice taking PSP developed tumors but no numbers were provided for either the test group of the control group.
3) The Partnership was with University of Hong Kong and Provital Pty Ltd. Provital is the authorized dealer for Wonder Herb Health Products in Hong Kong
4) There was a lot of publicity all over the web. However they were identical press releases with the same misleading/incomplete information.
5) I can find no independent confirmation.

So. Here's my, admittedly skeptical, take. Purely conjecture.

a) Wonder Herb has a load of turkey tail mushrooms.
b) Dr Ling has a relative or school buddy who works for Provital or Wonder Herb in Hong Kong
c) The press release is timed with an IPO or similar for one of the companies.
d) There will be a push to raise independent funds for further research targeting a few wealthy, angel investors who have or know someone with PCa.
e) There will be a fundraiser to powered by a PR firm that will not raise enough funds but will bring valuable publicity. see (d) above.

Any press release or statement that has the first 13 words of this quote "has been found to be 100 per cent effective in suppressing prostate tumour development in mice during early trials, new Queensland University of Technology (QUT) research shows." is immediately suspect.

I can produce the same results in my lab by feeding the mice a high dose of warfarin or ZnP. The tumors do not develop because the mice die.

Save your money.
Jeff ( Not jumping on that band wagon)

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25393
   Posted 5/24/2011 7:22 AM (GMT -6)   
Snake Oil in another form.
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06, 2/11 1.24, 4/11 3.81
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10

Ausboy
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2011
Total Posts : 92
   Posted 5/24/2011 7:36 AM (GMT -6)   

Worried guy

I understand your skepticism, but your comments only relate to the press release, the whole study is published here at : http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0019804#authcontrib

it does detail exact methods/ numbers/ doses used, it is a world wide recognised peer review science site.

Again I apologise for posting an article with this type of possible cure claims, but after reading the whole paper I found it quite interesting and thought others might also, you are entitled to your opinion, and I agree there are a lot of press releases with misleading claims, but I thought this a tad different to the snake oil ones commonly found. 

Ausboy

age 49, dx 21-01-2011 PSA 5.6
12 cores all positive >80% in some, Gleason 3+3=6, T2B
RALP 10-03-2011, post OP pathology, Gleason 4+3=7 and 1% 5+4=9
Prostate 50g, 48mmx40mmx40mm, largest tumor 48mmx34mmx24mm, extensive PIN also present, EPE left apex .2mm, perineural invasion, clear margins closest was .7mm, lymph nodes not checked.
path stage pT3A Nx Mx R0
post OP PSA ? 11/5/2011 - 0.03

Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3739
   Posted 5/24/2011 8:10 AM (GMT -6)   
Ausboy,

Thank you for the link. You do agree that the press release that has been virtually spam blasted really has no information.

Even the caption under the picture of Dr Ling: "Dr Patrick Ling says this is the first time the PSP compound has been proven to have anti-cancer stem cell effects." does not reduce my skepticism. Does that mean there were many other tests that showed it to be ineffective?

I tired to go to the link you supplied but it did not work.
Here's what I got:

"Page Not Found
Sorry, the page that you've requested cannot be found; it may have been moved, changed or removed.
Please use the advanced search form to locate an article.
If you continue to experience problems with the site, please provide a detailed account of the circumstances on our feedback form.
Thank you for your patience."

(I noticed the end of the link you posted has "authcontrib".)

I will continue to look around and see what I find.

I am still betting my points (a) through (e) are not far off the mark. Time will definitely tell.

Jeff (Buyer Beware)

I would love it if something like this actually worked. I'd also like stem cell researchers to find a way I can grow a new prostate-like support for my insides. And grow my nerves back too.

Post Edited (Worried Guy) : 5/24/2011 7:14:41 AM (GMT-6)


Ausboy
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2011
Total Posts : 92
   Posted 5/24/2011 8:21 AM (GMT -6)   

hello WG

yes I tried the link and same result, not sure why it didn't work? tried from another web page rather than from this site and it was ok? I opened browser and copied and pasted and worked fine not very IT savvy, try cut and paste it really is an interesting article.

 
Ausboy
age 49, dx 21-01-2011 PSA 5.6
12 cores all positive >80% in some, Gleason 3+3=6, T2B
RALP 10-03-2011, post OP pathology, Gleason 4+3=7 and 1% 5+4=9
Prostate 50g, 48mmx40mmx40mm, largest tumor 48mmx34mmx24mm, extensive PIN also present, EPE left apex .2mm, perineural invasion, clear margins closest was .7mm, lymph nodes not checked.
path stage pT3A Nx Mx R0
post OP PSA ? 11/5/2011 - 0.03

Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3739
   Posted 5/24/2011 10:51 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Ausboy.

I managed to find the paper.

Here are the authors and their affiliations:

Sze-Ue Luk (2), Terence Kin-Wah Lee (3), Ji Liu1, Davy Tak-Wing Lee (2), Yung-Tuen Chiu(2), Stephanie Ma(3), Irene Oi-Lin Ng3, Yong-Chuan Wong(2), Franky Leung Chan(4), Ming-Tat Ling(1)* (*a.k.a. Patrick Ling)

(1) Australian Prostate Cancer Research Centre-Queensland and Institute of Health and Biomedical Innovation, Queensland University of Technology, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, 2 Department of Anatomy, The University of Hong Kong, Hong Kong, Hong Kong SAR, 3 Department of Pathology, The University of Hong Kong, Hong Kong, Hong Kong SAR, 4 School of Biomedical Sciences, The Chinese University of Hong Kong, Hong Kong, Hong Kong SAR

I'm not saying this applies, but in the latest issue of Scientific American there was an article entitled An Epidmenic of False Claims

"False positives and exaggerated results in peer-reviewed scientific studies have reached epidemic proportions in recent years. The problem is rampant in economics, the social sciences and even the natural sciences, but it is particularly egregious in biomedicine. Many studies that claim some drug or treatment is beneficial have turned out not to be true. We need only look to conflicting findings about beta-carotene, vitamin E, hormone treatments, Vioxx and Avandia. Even when effects are genuine, their true magnitude is often smaller than originally claimed."

Hey, I've still got a bottle of 10 year old Rogaine sitting in the bathroom cupboard.

Jeff (with a growing bald spot)

Post Edited (Worried Guy) : 5/24/2011 9:54:26 AM (GMT-6)

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