PSA continues to fall!

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Jim is sick
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 118
   Posted 6/5/2011 7:06 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi everyone!
 
I'm here to spread the word there is hope for low risk PCa sufferers. It appears at least for me there is a definite corolation with diet and PSA. As you can see from my sig my PSA is down to pre diagnosis amounts. I will go into some detail of my diet. It sounds like a fad diet, but it's actually based on science.
I have eliminated all corn from my diet. Corn is unique in the vegatable world. It's 45:1 omega 6 to omega 3 fatty acid. That is to say it's 45:1 bad to good! As Dr. SnuffyMyers says, "it doesn't take much corn to mess up your system." So I eliminated any foods that has corn oil in them. This includes foods made from corn, corn chips, potatoe chips cooked in vegatable (corn) oil, meats from animals that are fed corn! I eat white meat chicken and turkey, tuna and salmon, a large selection of fresh fruits and vegatables, and my staple of a custom mixed nuts I make using almonds, pecans, walnuts, peanuts, cashews, and mixed nuts. As with many following AS and changing their diet I also have a protein shake made from frozen strrawberries, banana, pom and orange juice every morning in placde of a traditional breakfast. I feel great.
 
My father has been dealing with the same issues as I. He's 75, on avadart, his PSA has been in the 4 to 5 range, slowly climbing. Because he's on avadart it means his true PSA is roughly double this or 8 to 10. We see the same urologist. His last appointment his PSA went to 7.8 which means it's truely over 15! He has had 3 biopsies and no cancer was detected. His diet is terrible. He refuses to make any changes.
 
In addition to the corn oil we also have eliminated all high fructose corn syrup from our deitary intake. We have also eliminated preservatives. If we can't pronounce it we don't eat it. I couldn't have done it without my wifes support. She is now off her colesterol and thyroid meds. She's down to her high school weight oif 110 lbs.
 
My doc does not approve AS. He will do it, but he does not buy in to the entire concept. He tells me all his other patients have glasses that are half empty, and he likes the fact that I feel my glass is half full. I am beating this disease! I didn't really get it before. If my next PSA is lower still I will totally freak right out!
 
If you are considering AS and your diagnosis allows it, I recommend you slow down and think this through!...
 
48, 5' 8", 210lbs, 160lbs
PSA test poart of office visit for arthritus.
8-09, 3.22
Three month follow up.
11-09, 4.25
Biopsy
2-10, 32 cores. 3 reveal PCa, 10%, Gleason 3+3=6, T1C
Diet changed, weight lost, PSA falls.
12-10, 3.77
Six month later PSA falls even more.
6-11, 3.38
Current Treatment: AS, next appt. Dec 2011. No red meat, little dairy, lots of fruits, nuts, veges.

RobertC
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 1300
   Posted 6/5/2011 7:21 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the update.
I have read "Anticancer" that uses some of the same ideas. (That book mentions that many chicken and turkey's are fed corn.)
Hope it continues to work.
Gleason (3+4) 7, PSA 5 in November 2011
cryoablation in January 2011.

cooper360
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 161
   Posted 6/5/2011 7:24 AM (GMT -6)   
Excellent post...........I definitely believe if your diagnosis allows this "way down the road"  Just Do It!!!!  I do believe its harder than one would think because it takes a total revamping of most peoples eating habits.....but worth a try [ imo]....................Cooper  wink

Jim is sick
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 118
   Posted 6/5/2011 7:26 AM (GMT -6)   
Quote
robertcool said...
Thanks for the update.
I have read "Anticancer" that uses some of the same ideas. (That book mentions that many chicken and turkey's are fed corn.)
Hope it continues to work.

We only eat the white meat in chicken and turkey, as it is very low in fat, so it has the least amount of corn oil (distilled by the bird) LOL :D

Post Edited (Jim is sick) : 6/5/2011 7:30:46 AM (GMT-6)


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 6/5/2011 10:39 AM (GMT -6)   
Jim,

Your dietary choices certainly will never hurt you, not in the least, but I still don't believe for a second that it willl have any long term effect on your cancer. You seem to be dealin with an indolent case, which is a good thing. I wouldn't want to go through the rest of my life (current age 58) on such a restricted diet. I enjoy eating, and my current oncology dietician is totally opposed to avoiding entire groups of foods/meats such as you are doing. She believes in a standard heart healthy or mederterian type diet, and eating balanced, and still enjoying the foods one likes, but in moderation. She has studied diet from a cancer perspective for over 25 years, and she said she has never seen a single convincing study at any point, that proves that dietary changes can have any effect on the course that a known cancer can take. She is actually the 3rd oncology dietician in 10 years that have held this same view.

I have no problems with whatever diet a person wants to take, its their choice, and even their personal sacrifice if it's too extreme.


David in SC

If what you are doing tastes good to you, satisfies your eating desires, and makes you feel better about yourself, it can only be a good thing for you.
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06, 2/11 1.24, 4/11 3.81
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 6/5/2011 10:42 AM (GMT -6)   
P.S., I don't buy Snuffy's obsession about corn, even chickens are fed corn. I know some feel that he is a miracle worker and a good doctor, I certainly don't have any reason to think that he is not. But he is just one person, one doctor, and some of his views are considered bizzare by lots of mainstream oncologistis, including my new doctor. Like all things in life, one can always glean something good from just about any source.
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06, 2/11 1.24, 4/11 3.81
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10

F8
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3800
   Posted 6/5/2011 1:24 PM (GMT -6)   
Jim -- good for you!  if you like what you are getting, keep doing what you are doing cool .
 
ed
 
 
age: 56
PSA on 12/09: 6.8
gleason 3+4 = 7
HT, BT and IGRT
received 3rd and last lupron shot 9/14/10
2/8/11 PSA <.1, T= 6 ng/dl

Jim is sick
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 118
   Posted 6/6/2011 1:59 AM (GMT -6)   
Well I see BillyMac got 27 replies to his grandbaby birth announcement, and I got 6 on my PSA continues to fall thread... This place breeds stupidity and paranoia. Everything is negative... I have no interest in arguing so I'm out of here. Thanks to JohnT and a handful of others who have tried to be informative and positive. I have lerned a lot. But this place has changed. Perg, thank you for your negative uninformative waste of internet bandwidth. You are right of course. I have decided to gain 50 lbs eating garbage and have a prostatectomy just in case... But if my kids reproduce I would be happy to announce it here. Don't waste a lot of bandwidth replying now. Seriously I'm not coming back...
48, 5' 8", 210lbs, 160lbs
PSA test poart of office visit for arthritus.
8-09, 3.22
Three month follow up.
11-09, 4.25
Biopsy
2-10, 32 cores. 3 reveal PCa, 10%, Gleason 3+3=6, T1C
Diet changed, weight lost, PSA falls.
12-10, 3.77
Six month later PSA falls even more.
6-11, 3.38
Current Treatment: AS, next appt. Dec 2011. No red meat, little dairy, lots of fruits, nuts, veges.

Piano
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 847
   Posted 6/6/2011 5:02 AM (GMT -6)   
Jim,

Sorry you feel this way, but Billy's thread has been running about four times longer than yours, and yours merits more considered replies. So give it time... (c'mon guys!!!)

I happen to agree with you about diet but the corn issue is news to me. Can you point out any studies that show corn is something we should avoid?

We have naysayers here who seldom miss an opportunity to push their pre-conceived ideas about diet ~ best to ignore them.

I hope that your next PSA is also down and you will return, if only to rub our noses in it. :-)
No symptoms; PSA 5.7; Gleason 4+5=9; cancer in 4/12 cores
Non-nerve-sparing RRP 7 March 2008 age 63
Organ confined, neg margins. Gleason downgrade 4+4=8
Fully continent
Bimix worked well; now using just VED
PSA undetectable at first but then rose to 0.4, doubling time 7 months
Following diet change, PSA static at 0.4...

RobertC
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 1300
   Posted 6/6/2011 6:25 AM (GMT -6)   
As Jim mentioned, corn is rich in Omega-6 fatty acids that are inflammatory. The newer theories of cancer hold that cancer initiates, spreads and becomes more aggressive because of inflammation.
At one time diets were about 1 to 1 Omega-3 (antinflammatory) to Omega-6. With changes in agriculture practices, the ratio in the USA is now at least 1:14 in favor of the inflammatory Omega-6's.

Peck, R.M. et al, “Inflammation in the Genesis and Perpetuation of Cancer”, Cancer Research 65, no.19 (2005)

Marx, J., “Cancer Research: Inflammation and Cancer: The Link Grows Stronger”, Science 306 (2004)

Simopoulos, AP, Salem, N, “The Importance of the Ratio of Omega-6/Omega-3 Essential Fatty Acids,” Biomedicine Pharmacotherapy #56-8 (2002)

“Risks and Benefits of Omega-3 Fats for Mortality, Car-diovascular Disease, and Cancer: Systematic Review, “ British Medical Journal 332 (2006)

Dinse, GE, etc. “Unexplained Increases in Cancer Incidence in the United States from 1976 to 1994: Possible Sentinel Health Indicators?”, Annual Review of Public Health 20 (1999)
Gleason (3+4) 7, PSA 5 in November 2011
cryoablation in January 2011.

Post Edited (robertcool) : 6/6/2011 6:56:20 AM (GMT-6)


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 6/6/2011 9:14 AM (GMT -6)   
Jim, I said nothing negative to you or about you. When you discuss dietary items here, people often share all spectrums of views on the subject. I worded things carefully and in a positive way to you. You sound paranoid, if you are counting the number of answers from one thread to the other, that is very unsavory at best. And, from reading your last post, you are directly flaming me without cause. I make no apology for what I wrote you, and it was clearly just an opinion. If you are looking for real doctor information, you aren't going to get it from JohnT or anyone else here ( no offense intended John). This is a patient to patient site, and you knew that when you joined. If you start a thread, you have to expect all kinds of opinions (and that's all they are).

david in sc

piano - so anyone that disagrees is a naysayer? that seems shallow. i have expressed directly information that 3 different oncology dieticians have said to me on the general subject of diet, that is more than just my "pre-conceived" idea of diet. you don't need to be rude about those that disagree
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06, 2/11 1.24, 4/11 3.81
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10

Casey59
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3172
   Posted 6/6/2011 9:23 AM (GMT -6)   

Jim, I’m sorry…….

 

…after conducting an emergency online meeting of the site moderators and site owner, we have concluded that you will likely have to change your screen name from “Jim is sick” to “Jim was sick” in order to continue to participate at HealingWell.com. 

 

Seriously, what a great lesson for so many others here to learn from…both newcomers and veterans alike.  Many, many men are “hungry” (forgive the bad pun) for tangible information like yours on how to modulate the biologic behavior of their prostate cancer.  (Unfortunately, it is only “many” men, and not “all” men; many are satisfied with sticking only with the conventional, aggressive treatments.)  Good for you in seeking out & following the best-in-class guidance for men’s health—that’s important in prostate cancer due to its complexity and the enormous amount of progress that is being made every year. 

Research conducted in the past few years has shown that bioactive dietary agents can (a) reduce an individual’s chances of developing PC, (b) diminish the risk of disease recurrence, and (c) inhibit disease progression.   Far too many doctors, dieticians, clinicians, etc are ignorant of the unique challenges, as well as the opportunities prostate cancer presents.  Dr Myers himself wrote, “I do find it amazing that many patients and even cancer physicians do not understand the basics of a healthy diet.”

You have clearly modified your prostate cancer risk.  It is entirely possible that because of your willingness to act, you may never have to undergo the radical, aggressive treatments that have plagued so many others.  At the very worst, you have likely dramatically improved your health and overall longevity. 

As Dr Robert Anthony wrote, “It is not enough to know what to do, you must do what you know.”  Power to you, man!


compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7203
   Posted 6/6/2011 9:57 AM (GMT -6)   
Purg:
 
I suspect there is some evidence that diet can impact PC significantly. The frustrating thing for me is that the studies often contradict each other. (eg: Omega 6 used to be fine; now it's bad news. Ground flaxseed used to be fine; now it's bad news). Still, I think little by little some evidence is mounting. Fortunately, the heart healthy diet seems to be a good anti-PC diet.
 
I will be interested in seeing what Dr. Scholz has to say about diet. The other big non-diet issue appears to be when to start HT. The evidence is mounting that it is best to start it early when the tumor burden is small. I think (fear) Dr. Scholz will say that.
 
You know, it takes awhile for a lot of this to become standardized. I think we are getting there, but it takes time for the knowledge to filter down throughout the medical profession. I have a feeling the HT thing is just about there and some dietary "facts" are getting there.
 
You are entitled to your opinion and you can quote your local dieticians/doctors. One has to have faith in your own experts. But I just have this sense that the research is heading in the aforementioned directions.
 
David --- good luck on your PSA results. I'm really hoping for a pleasant surprise. I gather today is the day, right? I'm amazed that you are totally sanguine about this. I wonder if I will ever be calm about an upcoming PSA test. I think not.

John T
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 4223
   Posted 6/6/2011 10:03 AM (GMT -6)   
Jim,
You are never going to get a 100% agreement on anything concerning PC, so when you post something, especially about diet, treatment options or anything that requires some decision or action expect disagreement. Some opposing positions are based on sound information and others are based on someone's gut feel. You just have to shrug it off and keep presenting information. In the 2+ years I have been on this forum I have seen a major change in accepting treatment options other than surgery, such as AS and Brachy, so posting factual information does have an impact, most of the time not as fast as we would like.
I'm a firm believer in diet and reduced my psa 10 points in 3 months by diet alone. I was only able to stick to a strict diet for about 9 months. I've slowly added some things back in, like eating a small amont of meat once a week, but definately avoid the hamburgers and pastrami that I used to consume on a daily basis.
Don't leave the forum just because you get some disageement.
JT
JT
66 years old, rising psa for 10 years from 4 to 40; 12 biopsies and MRIS all negative. Oct 2009 DXed with G6 <5%. Color Doppler biopsy found 2.5 cm G4+3. Combidex clear. Seeds and IMRT, 4 weeks of urinary frequency and urgency; no side affects since then. 2 years of psa's all at 0.1.

Sancarlos
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 242
   Posted 6/6/2011 10:44 AM (GMT -6)   
Jim,

Definitely no reason to quite posting because someone voices disagreement. I too am a firm believer in diet, and aerobic and strength training also. And I am also convinced that pomogranite, grape seed , and green tea extracts, and echinacea, are good for my general health. I also firmly believe in the power of red wine in moderation, and even in the premise that a lot of red wine is better for you than no red wine at all.

That said, I am not going to get bent out of shape if someone on this forum disagrees with me me about the power of supplements and red wine merely because of a lack of definitive evidence. Because when all is said and done I try to live my life based at least in part on hope, and in the belief that I still have some control of my fate based on my actions.

Sancarlos
Age 66, PCa diagnosed 2009 age 65
Stage: T2c, Gleason: 9 (4 + 5), 6 of 6 cores positive
Bone, CAT and MIR scans negative

Treatment: brachytherapy (103 palladium), 100 gy (11/2009) + IMRT, 45 gy (3/2010) + ADT3 (Lupron + Casodex+Avodart)

PSA: 7/2009
At time of diagnosis -- 11.9
10/2009 -- 5.0
12/2009 -- 0.56
5/2010 -- 0.15
8/9/2010 -- 0.06
11/2010 -- 0.013
2/25/2011-- 0.005
5/27/2011-- 0.003

Post Edited (Sancarlos) : 6/7/2011 9:17:44 PM (GMT-6)


Tudpock18
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 4149
   Posted 6/6/2011 12:18 PM (GMT -6)   
Dear Jim Was Sick:
 
I'm glad you have found healthy choices that have worked for you and that your AS continues to be successful.  Please don't be put off because of differences of opinion here.  One of the things that makes this forum so vibrant is the diversity of thought.  As tiffs go this one is pretty mild.  Wait until you try to argue radiation vs. surgery or bring up religion!
 
Seriously, I hope you stick around.  We don't have many AS patients on the forum and your perspective and journey can be very educational for the rest of us and potentially beneficial to newcomers.  Please reconsider.
 
Tudpock (Jim-  who also "was" sick)
Age 62 (64 now), G 3 + 4 = 7, T1C, PSA 4.2, 2/16 cancerous, 27cc. Brachytherapy 12/9/08. 73 Iodine-125 seeds. Procedure went great, catheter out before I went home, only minor discomfort. Everything continues to function normally as of 12/8/10. PSA: 6 mo 1.4, 1 yr. 1.0, 2 yr. .8. My docs are "delighted"! My journey:
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=1305643&g=1305643#m1305643

cooper360
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 161
   Posted 6/6/2011 12:42 PM (GMT -6)   
STAY...........you would be surprised by who might be reading these posts.........if you impact one person it will have been worth it....to this day I say thank you to some of the posts from JohnT ........I posted something about CDU that impacted another guy who had one and was helped.......thats how thinking can be changed one person at a time...........Cooper wink

Casey59
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3172
   Posted 6/7/2011 3:50 PM (GMT -6)   

The original “Jim is/was sick” posting in this thread should become a sticky on this HealingWell.com site (attention moderators:  excellent opportunity to help others in the future!).  Jim's message epitomizes the true essence of “healing well.”  Amongst the trivial many threads, the message in his post is among the valuable few.  (Are others here familiar with the “80/20 rule,” also interpreted as Pareto’s Principal, which separates the trivial many from the critical few?)

Six months ago, another poster here at HW (“sv”) provided an inspiring and similarly positive & upbeat account of his favorable experiences as a Gleason 9 fighting PC with integrative medicine techniques including lifestyle modification (“sv” spoke mostly about diet/nutrition) to complement his conventional therapies.  In his thread (similar to Jim’s), “sv” detailed how he took steps within his control to modify his cancer risk by eating a healthy, balanced diet which reduced/eliminated those individual foods (not entire food groups) known to increase cancer risk and increased those foods known to decrease cancer risk.  While this sounds incredibly like common sense, we all know that change is difficult

In that January thread, I shared with “sv” the definition—which fit him ideally—of “thrivership,” and I would similarly bestow that description on “Jim is/was sick.”  Lying somewhere between Jim’s G-6 and “sv’s” G-9, there are many men here who will benefit from their personal message of success (as visibly demonstrated by many of the thread respondents), but there are many, many more who could benefit from their message of integrative therapy thrivership (although neither of them used that phrase). 

What is thrivership? The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines thriver as one who progresses toward a goal despite circumstances, and flourishes.  The diagnosis of prostate cancer can lead you in one of two directions. Some will react to this diagnosis with a sense of resignation and fatalism.  This view can lead to helplessness — waiting for the other shoe of cancer recurrence or progression to drop.  On the other hand, thrivership puts you in the driver’s seat — making you as vital to your care and treatment as any doctor or nurse. You may have had prostate cancer, but now you are in charge of your life, adopting new healthy habits and enjoying each day to its fullest.  As a prostate cancer thriver, you can use the latest knowledge about nutrition and exercise to improve your overall health and quality of life.  Your diagnosis of prostate cancer can be the beginning of a healthier lifestyle. 

Source:  Prostate Cancer Foundation’s (PCF) free online document titled, “Nutrition, Exercise and Prostate Cancer”

 

These two sentences are worth repeating for emphasis:  You may have had prostate cancer, but now you are in charge of your life, adopting new healthy habits and enjoying each day to its fullest.  As a prostate cancer thriver, you can use the latest knowledge about nutrition and exercise to improve your overall health and quality of life.

Thrivership is a concept that most everyone here at HW (consciously or subconsciously) strives for.  But as survivors and men who seek to be thrivers, we can/should all bond in our universal support of those who have tried and succeeded (such as Jim and “sv”) by wishing them the very best continued success!  Jim and “sv” are thriver role models for all of us here at HW…


stevmac1
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2010
Total Posts : 129
   Posted 6/7/2011 4:00 PM (GMT -6)   
Irregardless of one's opinion on diets effect on PCa, a FIFTY pound weight loss is not only quite an accomplishment, but CERTAINLY will affect your overall health quite positively.
That was a long darn sentence, too...
steve
50 Yrs. old at DX (51now) Feb, 2010 w/6.6 PSA.
Biopsy 04-24-10, Gleason 3+3
4 of 5 cores left side inv. 4 of 6 rt side
RRP 06-07-10
16 days post-op, catheter out.
Gleason upgraded to 3+4
Totally continent @ 8 weeks post-op. (!!!)
1st post-op PSA @ 12 weeks - <0.05
2nd " " " @ 6 months - <0.05
@ 9 months - <0.05

Sancarlos
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 242
   Posted 6/7/2011 4:29 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Casey59,

"What is thrivership? The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines thriver as one who progresses toward a goal despite circumstances, and flourishes. The diagnosis of prostate cancer can lead you in one of two directions. Some will react to this diagnosis with a sense of resignation and fatalism. This view can lead to helplessness — waiting for the other shoe of cancer recurrence or progression to drop. On the other hand, thrivership puts you in the driver’s seat — making you as vital to your care and treatment as any doctor or nurse. You may have had prostate cancer, but now you are in charge of your life, adopting new healthy habits and enjoying each day to its fullest. As a prostate cancer thriver, you can use the latest knowledge about nutrition and exercise to improve your overall health and quality of life. Your diagnosis of prostate cancer can be the beginning of a healthier lifestyle. "

Source: Prostate Cancer Foundation’s (PCF) free online document titled, “Nutrition, Exercise and Prostate Cancer”

Thank you for your response. You said very eloquently what I tried to say in an earlier message. I have prostate cancer, but at the same time I can be in charge of my life with decisions that I make about diet, exercise and other life habits. The fact that I have some control of my outcome, and I really believe that is the case, is in itself a condition that can lead to a more positive outcome.

Sancarlos
Age 66, PCa diagnosed 2009 age 65
Stage: T2c, Gleason: 9 (4 + 5), 6 of 6 cores positive
Bone, CAT and MIR scans negative

Treatment: brachytherapy (103 palladium), 100 gy (11/2009) + IMRT, 45 gy (3/2010) + ADT3 (Lupron + Casodex+Avodart)

PSA: 7/2009
At time of diagnosis -- 11.9
10/2009 -- 5.0
12/2009 -- 0.56
5/2010 -- 0.15
8/9/2010 -- 0.06
11/2010 -- 0.013
2/25/2011-- 0.005
5/27/2011-- 0.003

Post Edited (Sancarlos) : 6/7/2011 4:34:37 PM (GMT-6)


Jim is sick
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 118
   Posted 6/8/2011 11:20 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Guys,

I'm here to thank the people who responded to my post. Thanks! I did get impatient with what I thought was no interest. But I had never posted anything on the weekend before. Sorry... I was just excited!

I'm going to point out my problem with Pergatory and (edited). Then I'm going to log out till December when my next PSA test will be done. I do feel my success so far needs to be public.

My problem with you Perg, is you are extremely one sided on the subject of diet and (edited) what knowledgeable people call science.
You reply started nice and flat. Diet wont hurt me, but will not have any long term effect on my PCa, bla bla. Then you start reading more into my post then is there. I never said I eliminated all meat. In fact I stated I eat white meat chicken/turkey and fish. Then you go on to tell me what your dietitian recommends, which is basically what I am doing. I do not recognize your doctors as being the end all in the discussion. We can quote conflicting studies till tomorrow morning, but what's the point. I am not a doctor, but a guy who has made changes that appear to be helping me. If it will help me, it might help someone else, not matter what your doctors tell you. Then you go flat again, Do what you want, but then imply I'm doing something "extreme". My wife is an excellent cook and we have very flavorful meals that are healthy. Did I say, my personal commitment to this extreme diet has paid off? No, because it's not that tough to eat right. It does mean you can't eat in restaurants and you have to cook every meal form raw health ingredients, not pop something boxed into the microwave. Then you finally close with a flat if what you are doing is good, it can only be a good thing for me. (edited). Even chickens are fed corn. You're bolstering my case! Did you not see my post where I said I eat white meat only because it is very low in fat?



(edited) there are some real world facts that you refuse to acknowledge.



Fact: The human species evolved to eat fruits grains and vegetables, along with GRASS fed furry animals of all manor.



Fact: The federal government has subsidized the overproduction of corn. It forces the price down and makes it very inexpensive to use in the industrialization of the food industry.



Fact: Corn is fed to cattle but cattle can't deal with it because it's not a natural food for them. The result is the animals are injected with antibiotics so they can eat the corn. When an animal eats corn the oils go directly into the bloodstream and ends up in the fat. That's the stuff I used to love when eating a fillet mignon. Cancer loves it too.



Fact: It is practically impossible to go to the grocery store and find a processed food that does not contain corn (vegetable) oils. They use it everywhere, even in tofu based products that are supposed to be healthy!



Fact: Corn is 45:1 bad to good omega fatty acids. Google it dude...



The American people are swimming in corn oil man. 45:1 bad to good omega fatty acids. And it's not natural in any stretch of the imagination. It's killing them in many different ways.



(edited)

Then you call me paranoid accusing me of counting replies... Dude you can see how many replies a thread received from the home page without even opening the thread. I glanced at it and started to write. Because I did not look to see it was posted several days before only proves I'm not paranoid, just highly excited. My bad.



(edited)



You see why I just wanted to walk away? I will see you all in 6 months. Assuming I'm not banned.



Jim might still be sick, but things are going in the right direction. There is hope for the low risk sufferers. Fight your low risk PCa with diet and exorcise first before doing a drastic treatment. That was my message from the beginning. Later!



Post edited to remove Rule violation- flaming, etc. I cut the personal stuff, but left the argument, as the poster has a right to state his opinion as much as any other one here. Diet is a flammable area, but still one that allows for diverse and sometimes abrasive discussions about. James C.

Post Edited By Moderator (James C.) : 6/8/2011 12:27:39 PM (GMT-6)


clocknut
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 2667
   Posted 6/8/2011 12:06 PM (GMT -6)   
Pardon me, but this thread is more than a little ridiculous. (edited unnecessary provocative descriptions)


How weird that a posting the other day week that dared to thank the Lord for guiding him thru this PCa nightmare gets locked, but this one, full of pseudo-science and negativity toward American agricultural practices is apparently just fine.



Many cultures throughout the world have corn as a main ingredient in their diets I believe. Is prostate cancer running rampant in those cultures? Has all this increased reliance on corn products caused a dramatic escalation in the prevalence of PCa in America?



Also, does a slight decrease in PSA actually signify ANYTHING regarding the status of the cancer in the prostate? Could it be that the presence of the cancer is simply being masked by the diet? I hope Jim's cancer is going in reverse, but does he really know that?



Clearly, the weight loss is amazing, but I don't see how we can make the jump from a slight decrease in PSA and a large decrease in weight to the conclusion that prostate cancer is being defeated.



Are you saying cows are given anitbiotics because they are fed corn? Actually, a great many cattle are grass fed, and will someone please tell me what effect antibiotics have on corn? I mean, I know antibiotics kill germs, but what do they do to corn?



I might also ask this: even if this weird diet benefits PCa, what does it do to the other multiple systems in the body? The kidneys, the liver, the pancreas, the brain, the pulmonary system, and so many others? Do we know? Do we care? There's a lot more inside us than our prostates (or former prostates).



I just don't get it. Rules prevent us from talking about politics. OK. Rules prevent us from talking about the support that spiritual beliefs provide to so many men in dealing with this disease. OK. But no rules prevent us from playing amateur nutritionist and advocating any weird diet that we believe is helping us. Maybe we need a rule to limit claims for outlandish diets until they are scientifically proven correct; otherwise, they're almost a form of "religiion," and I think Jim's aggressive response to Purg illustrates that.



I guess my docs are just plain stupid and lying to me when they tell me that a good, heart healthy diet is the best advice for anyone dealing with prostate cancer. Stupid, stupid doctors.

edited to remove Rule violation-

Post Edited By Moderator (James C.) : 6/8/2011 12:44:34 PM (GMT-6)


compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 7203
   Posted 6/8/2011 12:27 PM (GMT -6)   
Yes, this has turned into a very strange over-the-top thread.
 
Politics-religion- even diet will do that almost all the time.
 
Mel

James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4462
   Posted 6/8/2011 12:39 PM (GMT -6)   
potato-potatoe, that's why we have so much variety of opinion here. Your diet may be something that I think is weird or disgusting or dangerous, just as another may find my liking for and research cited diet of hickory tree twigs, water ferns and clear spring water excessive or dangerous. I don't think anyone here is being coerced or otherwise made to do anything they disagree with concerning diet, supplements, etc. We're all different and we must be able to agree to disagree. We don't need to insult others or continually force our opinions on others by debasing or putting down things others are doing to improve their health. I thought that was what we were here for, to learn from others, share what we learn and open ourselves to more information, not to shut down anything that doesn't fit into our preconceived idea of good, healthy or safe. So live and let live, practice tolerance to others and other ideas. If someone comes up with a diet or other treatment they think is working for them, how about rather than belittling, how about you just say:
"really? hmmm, interesting, I hope you will come back and keep us updated on this. Thanks for sharing that with us". See? easy-peezy, puddin pie....
James C, 64, East TN
Gonna Make Myself A Better Man tinyurl.com/28e8qcg
4/07: PSA 7.6, 7/07 Biopsy: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% inv, lf. lobe, GS6
9/07: Nerve Spar. open RP, Path: pT2c, 110 gms., clear except:
Prob. microscopic inv.-left apical margin -GS6
3 Years: PSA's .04 each test until 4/10-.06, 9/10-.09, 12/10-.09, 2/11-.08, 5/11-.08
Bimix .30

clocknut
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 2667
   Posted 6/8/2011 12:44 PM (GMT -6)   
That's an excellent suggestion, James, and that's exactly what I saw happening in this thread until the OP went ballistic and engaged in some of the most incredible flame throwing I've seen on this site, attacking anyone and anything that contradicted what he has been doing.  Hey, if it's working for him, that's wonderful.  It's also interesting.  But it's not science.
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