ARE BONE METS ALWAYS PC ????????

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leeanglo
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2010
Total Posts : 191
   Posted 6/16/2011 2:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Well im probably in the Denial stage but id like to put something of a suggestion forward.My psa is high and im showing ive showed 12 biopsy cores with cancer at gleason 4+3 7 enlarged 1st and secondry nodes in my abdomen and isotope bone scans showing mets in spine pelvis ribs and neck vertebra.NOW WHAT IF !!! as a young man worked physicaly very hard and all the places im showing mets are just coincedentally degenerative Arthritis ??????? I believe its just a minute possibility but can anyone tell me how for certain these METS are possitvley secondary cancers and not just signs of Ware AND TARE on a hard worked body.MY udoc seems to think (and hes the master) that they are conclusivley cancerous activity but im not convinced and im not sure how to get a second opinion here in the UK !!If anyone can offer any advice or imfo  i would be very appreciative.
psa on dx 144, gleason 4+3 7 12 biopsie cores cancerous
T3a N2 M1.
psa after 3 months zoladex 20
T levels 0.5 after 3 months zoladex.
now taking 50mg cosadex daily also.

Steve n Dallas
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Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 4829
   Posted 6/16/2011 2:26 PM (GMT -6)   
I just google Bone Mets and found a similar question... Heres the answer that was given:
 
A bone scan is a good general overview of what is happening in the bones, and an area in the bone that is cancerous shows up differently or more pronounced than an area that is strictly arthritis or degenerative changes.....
 
Another person wrote: 
 
As you imply, the distinction is not absolute, and context plays a role. Bone mets are usually multiple; and certain patterns of activity are seen. However, I don't think it's possible absolutely to exclude tumor by a bone scan. It might well be that additional imaging should be considered. MRI would be a good start.

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 6/16/2011 5:08 PM (GMT -6)   
No, because you can have bone cancer itself, that has nothing to do with mets from PC. And there are other types of cancer that can cause bone mets. Now if you bone mets directily because of PC, then in the met, it is still PC, not bone cancer, if that makes any sense.

david
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06, 2/11 1.24, 4/11 3.81, 6/11 5.8
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10

Postop
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 385
   Posted 6/16/2011 5:17 PM (GMT -6)   
Not what is being asked, but cancers that are most commonly metastatic to bone: breast, lung, prostate, renal, thyroid.

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 6/16/2011 5:19 PM (GMT -6)   
The title of the thread is: Are Bone Mets always PC??????

So how is my answer not relevent?
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06, 2/11 1.24, 4/11 3.81, 6/11 5.8
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10

Fairwind
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 3744
   Posted 6/16/2011 5:23 PM (GMT -6)   
But with a PSA of 144 and a primary Gleason number of 4.........

What usually happens, after a few months on the ADT, they will do another Bone Scan and compare the before and after images to judge how effective the therapy has been..In many cases, the bone lesions disappear completely and they know they are on the right track..
Age 68.
PSA age 55: 3.5, DRE normal.
age 58: 4.5
61: 5.2
64: 7.5, DRE "Abnormal"
65: 8.5, " normal", biopsy, 12 core, negative...
66 9.0 "normal", 2ed biopsy, negative, BPH, Proscar
67 4.5 DRE "normal"
68 7.0 3rd biopsy positive, 4 out of 12, G-6,7, 9
RALP Sept 3 2010, pos margin, one pos vesicle nodes neg. Post Op PSA 0.9 SRT, HT. 2-15-'11 PSA 0.0

Postop
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 385
   Posted 6/16/2011 5:32 PM (GMT -6)   
Sorry, David, the "not what is being asked" refers to my own answer. I was not intending to comment on yours, except for filling in the list of things other than PCA that go to bone. Nor was I intending to suggest that this individual had another type of cancer, I agree with Fairwind. Sorry for the ambiguity. The memonic for remembering the list is "BLT with a Kosher Pickle. Prostate cancer is the pickle. Isn't it though?

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 6/16/2011 5:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Definitely the pickle for sure.
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06, 2/11 1.24, 4/11 3.81, 6/11 5.8
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10

BillyMac
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 1858
   Posted 6/16/2011 6:50 PM (GMT -6)   
Many types of cancer can metastasize to the bone as well as other areas. Most of these usually have their basis in a gland (adeno). Breast, skin, liver, brain,lung, kidney adenoid (if you still have them) although sometimes the primary tumour can not be located. I lost a friend a little over a year ago to metastatic cancer that had its genesis in one of his tonsils. I think you have to go with the most likely cause in your case, that being prostate based. A bone scan will light up areas of high bone activity, be they Pca or arthritis. A follow up normal x-ray can usually show a difference between the two though.
Bill

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 25380
   Posted 6/16/2011 7:56 PM (GMT -6)   
Billy,

Which is one reason that my new oncologist is running some x-rays on both hips and lower back, he will have 2 prior bone scans to compare with, which by the way, showed nothing in those areas, no arthritis, no prior injuries, etc. The new tests are now scheduled for tommorow morning, so that he will have them for next Wednesday's meeting,

David

Sorry I never made it back to finish chatting last night, got hit with a barrage of phone calls back to back.
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06, 2/11 1.24, 4/11 3.81, 6/11 5.8
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10

az4peaks
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 112
   Posted 6/17/2011 3:45 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi leeanglo, - Your stats, as you report them:

"psa on dx 144,
gleason 4+3 7
12 biopsie cores cancerous
T3a N2 M1.
psa after 3 months zoladex 20"

To answer your question No, everything that "lights up" on a Bone Scan is not NECESSARILY metastases (mets), but all of the foregoing combined with a positive Bone Scan makes it almost certain, that in YOUR case, they are caused by Prostate Cancer mets. Good luck! -John@newPCa (aka) az4peaks

leeanglo
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2010
Total Posts : 191
   Posted 6/18/2011 8:15 AM (GMT -6)   
THanks for your replies gents always appreciated.
psa on dx 144, gleason 4+3 7 12 biopsie cores cancerous
T3a N2 M1.
psa after 3 months zoladex 20
T levels 0.5 after 3 months zoladex.
now taking 50mg cosadex daily also.
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