Gat Goren, PAE, LUTS, Part 8

Hi Andy,

There is a new urine test for prostate cancer called SelectMDx developed in Belgium. The urine is collected after a standard DRE test. It looks for mRNA associated with aggressive prostate cancers. I just had it and my results were 14% for aggressive cancer and 34% for a blind needle biopsy. That is goo for a 220gm prostate! All that matters for us is clinically significant prostate cancer - not microscopic cells picked up by a random needle biopsy. Here is a link to their site:

http://mdxhealth.com/selectmdx-prostate-cancer

Could you tell me how quickly after your GG procedure 5 years ago you started to notice an improvement in your peeing? Was it a gradual improvement over many months or was it right away after the procedure compared to the night before?

I wonder why new guys who had GG stopped contributing to this site. There were 18 over a period of 3 years that kept coming on board here and then it suddenly stopped about a year ago. Do you think they went over to another site?
All the best
Neil
(p.s. my name at the old Inspire site was "peealot" or as my wife calls me "Sir Peealot" )

I underwent GG procedure in Laniado Hospital, Netanya, Israel. It was on June 18th 2017. Procedure was made by dr Goren, (dr Gat was present as well). Both examination before and after was made by dr Gat in his office.

Just came across this new article on the Gat Goren method (published few days ago)
I suppose this is the study they where working on in the last few years
It includes data on 206 patients and a follow-up of 12-24 months

It shows very high success rates and minor side effects as described here already by all of us. Is any one here can get a hand on the full paper?

"Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia: Long-term follow-up of prostate volume reduction after sclerotherapy of the internal spermatic veins"
Here is a link:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/and.12870/abstract

Hi,

I started to talk with Dr. Gat in February 2017. I hat to complete:

To be able to offer you the treatment we need from you 2 basic tests, 3 medical documents and few answers.
Here they are:

Tests:
1. Abdominal Ultra-Sound for: Kidneys, Liver, Urinary bladder, Prostate volume, Urinary residual volume (usually all 5 of them can be done on one test).
2. Blood test for:
- Complete blood count
- Free Testosterone, PSA
- Serology for: HIV, Hepatitis B+C
- Coagulation factors (PT, PTT, INR)
- Kidney functions (Serum creatinine, Urea)
- Liver functions: GOT, GPT, alkaline phosphate
(In most of the cases all can be done in one sample).
Please copy this list and make sure that the doctor and the lab provide you all this categories.

Documents:
A The last Medical summary report from your doctor - GP (about your medical condition)
B. The last Medical summary report from your urologist
C. Please complete the questionnaire that is attaches to this email

Questions:
1. Do you have any health problems?
2. Any medications that you take in a regular basis (Aspirin included)?
3. Do you have a sensitivity to iodine?
4. Have ever underwent a Hernia operation? If it is inguinal hernia, was it on the right or on left side?
5. Have you ever been offered a TURP treatment?

It took me almost four months to complete all of these tests.
And procedure took place on 18th of June.

Hi Steve,

I sent all results on 6th of April and I got my procedure scheduled on 26th of April (so, it took me two months not four to collect all tests).
And my insurance covered all this tests (AmeriHealth New Jersey).

Good luck with your treatment

andyaction said...
All - and Neil especially:

As long term contributors to this discussion will know. I had the GG procedure back in 2012.
Then I was 60.

At that time, it took me half an hour to pee and then ten minutes later, I need to go again, I was getting up at least five times every night, going out led me to developing a portable disposable super absorbent bag in case of emergencies and my life was in effect, ruined.

Today, over 5 years since the procedure. I sleep almost every night without needing to go to the loo. I have a steady, medium flow, continuous stream and go just about normally with regards frequency. Whereas it's not 100% - like when I was a teenager, I now live life without worrying. Here's my concern: PSA is 7.5 - last tested 2 months ago. This is down from 9.5 six months previously. I have been taking POMI - T supplement and guys, this appears to be working well. I will psa test again in a few months and keep you all posted.

Neil, if you consider an embolization make sure that it's not just the spermatic veins that are closed off. Ensure the capilliaries that open up are also sealed. Check this with your specialist

Andy, what was your PSA at time of the procedure with Gat Goren? As you may know, GG have published a study re the effect of their treatment on prostate cancer. It was on only 6 men, and all were only Gleason 6. The results were i think 5 out of 6 men were with no prostate cancer found in a biopsy , after only 6 months. That's impressive. Dr. Gat says their is logic behind it because the GG treatment reduced the FT (Free T') inside the prostate, and that reduces the growth of the cancer. In light of the above, I wonder how come your PSA has gone up? This is why I ask what was your PSA prior to the GG treatment? Thanks.

---

PCa Gleason 3+4. Age 61 . Underwent Focal Laser Ablation (FLA).

It's been close to a year and a half since I posted.

I wonder how Neil123 made out. He was scheduled for his procedeure in October, but hasn't posted since September.

Steve-in-Boston stated he was reluctant to take Finasteride because of side effects. I've been taking Dutasteride (stronger than Finasteride I believe) since Nov., 2015 and have had no side effects, except my PSA went from 8.7 to 1.2. I wish I had started taking it 5 years ago. It might have saved me some pain and suffering, though my urologist was reluctant to suggest it until I brought it up and tried to discourage me from taking it, offering Finasteride instead. But my research indicated Dutasteride has had superior results to Finasteride.

For those not familiar with my story, I was interested in PAE and GG, after having had not great results with the Greenlight laser in June 2012 on a 128g. prostate. But two emergency procedures over the next 3 years precluded my having a choice in the matter. In Dec. 2013 I had spontaneous bleeding of frank blood from the prostate and had an emergency second greenlight laser to cauterize several bleeding spots, resection part of the bladder mouth, and remove bladder stones. In April 2015 I had another spontaneous prostate bleed of clotting blood that sent me to the hospital. On my first bleed I needed 8 pints of whole blood. On the second bleed I needed 6 pints. This time a GL machine wasn't available (lucky for me) so my uro did a classic turp. My prostate had grown to 313g. before the turp, but was measured at 195g. afterward. The turp also had the benefit of providing tissue for a biopsy, which showed no cancer.

Six months later my prostate was up to 205 g. and I started taking the dutasteride (0.6mg. daily) and still do. However I had no problems urinating and my PVR (post void residual) was only 32ml. After a year on dutasteride my prostate was measured at 235g. but I still had no trouble urinating and my PVR was still 32ml. I've been on dutasteride almost 2-1/2 years now and still have no trouble urinating, but I haven't gone back for an ultrasound or PVR check. I figure at this point I'll wait for symptoms.

Regarding all three procedures, they solved my retention problem, and the last procedure solved my PVR problem (my PVR was 400ml prior to the first GL and 125-200ml after) but never fixed my urinating at night. I still get up 3 times a night on average, and pee in a bedside urinal I keep in a basket by the bed, in the dark, and get right back to sleep.

An interesting fact I learned is it's not the size of the prostate but the path from the bladder to the urethra that causes the retention. If the passage is large enough, it seems it doesn't matter how large the prostate is.

I also had a fairly large median lobe (my uro claimed he reduced it somewhat during the turp) but as long as it doesn't block the bladder mouth, all it does is decrease your bladder capacity. Around 6 months after my first GL some scar tissue grew across my external sphincter (between the prostatic urethra and the urethra) which was removed with a systoscope tool. However I had to cath once a month for a year to keep the channel open. While cathing I could tell the median lobe protrusion was about an inch inside my bladder mouth, so it didn't block the blsdder mouth. An ultrasound showed the median lobe took up about 15% the volume of the bladder after the second GL.

While I would never recommend the Greenlight laser, I seemed to have good results to date (almost 3 years) with the classic turp. Whether it was the turp, or the fact that this was the third procedure in just 3 years, I don't know. The turp did give me retro, but it didn't effect my sex life. Orgasms are dry as the sperm goes into the bladder, but just as enjoyable as they always were.

I don't know if my experience will be of any use to those here, but I'm somewhat of an abnormality. My uro said I had the largest prostate he had ever seen. What I did find out was that most of what I had read about, hoped for or feared in dealing with my prostate turned out to be different than what I expected.

Post Edited (Bob_NJ) : 5/10/2018 12:35:31 PM (GMT-6)

Hello All. New joiner here.

I am considering travelling to Tel Aviv for the Gat Goren procedure to treat my BPH. This thread (well, all 8 threads!) have been a mine of information - thanks so much to everyone for these superb insights.

I have got as far as speaking with Dr Gat and gathering the various tests he asks for. The final hurdle was seeing the Urologist a few days ago, who was extremely sceptical, to put it mildly. I think I have my eyes open, and understand the scientific scepticism (my background is in biological sciences and engineering), but the Gat Goren notion does for me pass the "smell test" (smells and sounds plausible and right - I do know that is not scientific by the way!). There seems to be an element of "not invented here" with the Urologists - it would be tough to admit that they might have missed something rather simple in the aetiology of BPH and PCa.

This thread has been quiet for the past few months, so I'm just checking in to ask if anyone has any new insights or post-GG updates to relate. If not that's fine... there is plenty for me to digest. I'll post again after the procedure, if I go.

@andyaction - just wondering if you are still around here. I'd be interested in getting in touch as we are both in Essex (well some of the time anyway for me - Brighton the rest of the time). I think there is no facility for private messaging on this board; please correct me if I've missed it.

Thanks again,
Roger.

Andy,

Good to hear that all is well and thanks for the reply.

I'd really appreciate a chat on the phone as soon as is convenient. Reluctant to post a phone number on here but could you email me please on roger77 [at] gmail [dot] com (making the usual substitutions)?

Best wishes to all. Happy New Year!
Roger.