caffeine and urination

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winglets
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 72
   Posted 12/27/2017 8:42 AM (GMT -6)   
They say that drinking coffee and tea can cause increased urine production, is there a way to actually measure this?

Like say you drank 2 litres of tea would you void exactly 2 litres or more at some point? Would you total urine output for the day be increased?

Howard3569
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Date Joined Nov 2014
Total Posts : 327
   Posted 12/27/2017 8:46 AM (GMT -6)   
No, some liquid is absorbed in the body or evaporated via skin.
Surgery Nov, 14 2014 Negative margins, negative lymph nodes, negative vessels
Gleason 3+7 PSA .08 Dec 14, 2004; <0.05 on March and July 2015; 0.05 on Oct 2015 and 0.07 on January 2016, .06 on July 2016 and .10 on Oct 2016

winglets
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   Posted 12/27/2017 9:17 AM (GMT -6)   
So you would be voiding less?
Why do they say then that caffeine can cause increased urine production? I thought because it lowers the level of ADH produced?

InTheShop
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   Posted 12/27/2017 9:34 AM (GMT -6)   
caffeine is a bladder irritant, you just pee sooner than with other fluids. It just seems like you pee more. you don't. Over time, what goes in, goes out, either in sweat or urine.
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Age 57, 52 at DX
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winglets
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Total Posts : 72
   Posted 12/28/2017 11:01 AM (GMT -6)   
It's odd as I'm only having bouts of this slight frequent urination, so it's not regular. So, in the other words I'll have days where I'm fine, normal urine frequency and then suddenly one day my urine output will increase despite not having changed my fluid intake. Again it's still quite mild, only once did I pee over 3 litres in a day but when I've been during this time, the urine then is a clear, pale yellow colour but when I'm fine it's more yellowish. I've checked my blood sugar yesterday during one of these bouts and it's normal, so, not sure what this could be.

I am on Remeron (Mirtazapine) and have been on it for more than 2 months now so I'm not sure if that is having an effect here although that would be strange given that I didn't have any side effects when I first took it.

Fauntleroy
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   Posted 12/29/2017 5:49 AM (GMT -6)   
Chronic elevated stress and cortisol will inhibit anti-diuretic hormone which will increase your urine output. Add to this, food and drink that are bladder irritants, certain medications?

It may be combination of things causing it, we tend to expect singular causation, easily indentifiable and easily cured.

I have nocturia, and some nights the volume is excessive, but urine is pale, on nights when it's very small amounts, the urine is much darker, the opposite of what you mentioned.

I've had this prior to treatment due an enlarged prostate and a "nub' impeding into the urethra, those physical abnormalities are no longer present, yet the same symptoms persist. My urologists says they are treatment related even though I had them prior to?

Anyway, there are meds available, but for me, not worth the risk of possible side effects.

The new normal I guess
56 yrs old @Dx, on 11/12 Staged T3A
PSA-2007-2.7, 2011-5, 2012-5.6 up to 5.9. 1st 12 core biopsy-8 of 12 cores positive, both lobes W/Tumors in Apex,PNI,extra capsular ext. Gleason 3/3 & 4/3, 2nd opinion Oppenheimer labs, to 3/4. Range 5-40% in core involvement.
Started short term HT 1/5/2013, Dart 1/31- 30 sessions. Brachy 5/08/13, Boost radiation 8/2
After treatment has remained steady @ .1

winglets
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Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 72
   Posted 12/30/2017 9:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the replies. I have been to the doctor now like three times and each time my urine sample comes back negative so there's nothing more to be done as he says my symptoms are too mild and vague.

So what looking back is figured out what this is... I'm having bouts of frequent urination not frequent urination itself as it only happens on some days then not on others. So I'll have three or more days maybe where I'm totally fine, normal urination etc. then suddenly I'll have this bout where I'll go a few times in succession. During this time my pee is clear, almost white colour but what's bothering me is where this extra urine is coming from. I haven't changed my diet or fluid intake. For example last few days I've been totally fine, even slept fine without going but then last night I had a large cup of non caffeine tea, emptied my bladder maybe 40 mins later but then couldn't get to sleep because I was having that sensation like I needed to go again and did go and voided like a fairly decent amount with that clear almost white colour. Where did this come from if I had just voided a short while ago? Still no pain or burning or anything severe before or after peeing.

Then the next day I'm fine again.

The doctor has no idea about this. It's not high blood sugar as I checked my bs during one of these bouts and it was normal. It's not the mirtazapine / remeron as this is not a known side effect. And like I said no infection or uti as urinalysis is always negative. Doctor didn't mention prostate issues, firstly due to my age and secondly because I'm not having any prostate symptoms.

It may seem obsessive but then it is just worrying because I've never had this before and occasionally affecting my sleep now too. So have no idea what to do apart from requesting an urologist appointment. God knows how long that will take.

Steve n Dallas
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   Posted 12/31/2017 4:14 AM (GMT -6)   
Have you ever drank any BEER?

I can go to Happy Hour on Friday night and have my usual four beers.

On some Fridays, I pee maybe once or twice the whole time I'm there.. Other Fridays I might pee twice for each beer that I drank...

My theory to the difference is related to my level of hydration before I even start drinking the beer... And my hydration level is affected by the weather and everything I eat or drink.
Age 62 - 5'11" 210lbs
Overall Heath Condition - Good
PSA - July 2007 & Jan 2008 -> 1.3
Biopsy - 03/04/08 -> Gleason 7
06/25/08 - Da Vinci robotic laparoscopy
09/19/17 - Nine Year PSA -> less than .01
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winglets
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 72
   Posted 1/3/2018 11:13 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks Steve. Yeah I see what you mean but let me ask you have you always been like this? In other words have you found yourself peeing more on some days then less on others? If it's normal for you and this didn't come on suddenly then that's ok but in my case it seems like this has come up kinda of suddenly. Again though it's not severe. On the days I do have the urination frequency, I might pee twice in say 2 hours and then might get the urge again some time later. My normal urination frequency from what I can remember is only about 2-3 times a day!

So what is your explanation as to why you pee differently when you drink beer? As you mentioned factors of weather, hydration etc but it just seems strange when one day you can hold in a certain amount with no issues then another you will struggle to hold that same quantity.

142
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   Posted 1/3/2018 12:10 PM (GMT -6)   
There is a long list of foods, spices, and beverages (especially carbonated) that irritate the bladder, which in turn cause more trips to the can.

Even artificial sweeteners can cause problems.

My frequency is very unpredictable, but add a jalapeno pepper, and I'll be up all night.
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alephnull
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   Posted 1/3/2018 1:21 PM (GMT -6)   
coffee - me - if I drink it at night I get up about 3 additional times
PSA at diagnosis 20.6, age 54 in 2013, 12 out of 12 cores positive
My PSA Curve
Robotic prostatectomy 11/2013, all positive except bladder neck invasion
Degarelix two months, 2 years Lupron, Radiation after 18 months
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Tiger88
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Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 33
   Posted 1/4/2018 1:15 PM (GMT -6)   
I also wonder if the stimulus to pee is the caffeine (coffee) or other changes in a routine. I've drank coffee (~two cups a day) for the last 40 years and can't help but think that my bladder is "used to it." Even after my RALP I still drink ~2 cups in the morning and don't start having problems with urination until after lunch... I go to work (desk job) at 0700 and hold my pee until ~1130-1200 (trying to expand bladder). No problems. Go to lunch and have ~20 oz of water...pee like a horse...ok, maybe a small horse. So I'm not sure if it's the "irritation" or the volume...
Jerry
-----------------
54 yo DX 5/17
PSA 9.2 on 3/17, 12.1 on 4/17 (free after antibiotics)
BX 5/17 - 4 of 12, 2 lobes-T2b, G7 (3+4)
de Vinci RALP - 9/15/17
Path-clear margins, no seminal or lymph intrusion, T2N0
-----------
PSA: 10/23/17 - <0.01 ng/mL

winglets
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts : 72
   Posted 1/5/2018 6:37 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Ido,

Thanks for your response.

Tiger sounds like you have something similar. For example yesterday I drank plenty, maybe well over 3-4l but had no urge to go for most of the day apart from in the morning. In total I went maybe around 3/4 times which is normal for me. Today however, I've already been twice within 2 hours and voided around 1 litre despite the fact that I've only drunk about 500ml before my first void. So this makes no sense to me and is what slightly concerns me. Again though no pain, burning or straining etc.

Glc100
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2017
Total Posts : 24
   Posted 1/7/2018 10:04 AM (GMT -6)   
I agree with several of the posts, i am almost 9 weeks post surgery, and can see differences in diet. chocolate, and artificial sweeteners are cause of leaks and frequent peeing. Alternately lentils seem work toward longer dry periods, along with walking.
Surgery 11/7/17 robotic, catheter removed 11/13, pathology, right pelvic lymph nodes- negative
Two pelvic left nodes negative , 3+4=7, grade 2, prostate 126g, 6.9x6.0x5.2 cm,
Biopsy 8/29/17 6 specimens, Gleason 3+4=7, 10% of one of 2 cores, Gleason 4 comprises 30%of tumor right apex high grade.
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fiddlecanoe
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2016
Total Posts : 274
   Posted 1/7/2018 5:39 PM (GMT -6)   
I found that coffee, decaf or regular, made me pee with great frequency and caused serious bladder spasms. I had to give it up. I found that tea, however, causes no problems, so I have switched entirely to tea.
Age: 62
Diagnosed in July 2016 with G7 (4+3) PC & PNI
Bone & CT scans clear
Surgery at Lenox Hill Hospital in NYC, 9/12/2016
Post-surgery pathology showed G7 (3+4), with SVI and PSM
Lymph nodes clear
First post-surgery PSA October, 2016: <.008
Second post-surgery PSA December, 2016: 0.01
Third post-surgery PSA June 2017: 0.05
IMRT begun: July 18, 2017 (35 fractions)
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Skypilot56
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Date Joined Mar 2017
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   Posted 1/7/2018 6:04 PM (GMT -6)   
Wings - sounds pretty normal to me coffee, orange juice, carbonated beverages, all tend to irritate the bladder more I had to quit drinking coffee for about 2 months after surgery then slowly start again but even now if I drink to much I'm running to the bathroom nonstop but in my honest opinion it is a result of getting older and surgery almost all the older guys I work with use the bathroom a lot more as do women part of aging I think. JMHO

Larry
Male 61 DX @ 60
Father had PC
2002. Psa. .08 Enlarged Prostrate
2014. Psa. 3.8
2016. Psa. 19
3-08-17 RP Mayo in Mn
Path Report: Gleason 9, pt3b, SV + 1 nerve removed, neg.margins, 35 LN removed no cancer, Prostrate 45 grams
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