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A Diet For Prostate Cancer

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Prostate Cancer
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BillyBob@388
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2014
Posts : 3915
Posted 8/15/2018 6:19 PM (GMT -7)

Ak123 said...
Cashless,
I am not sure if my journey trying to find a good diet to control my psa rise
Is of any concern now, not sure though. This morning I got bad news from
A total body MRI ordered by my

FINDINGS:
BONES: 0.6 cm rounded T1 hypo-, T2
hyperintense lesion in the T6 vertebral body, of indeterminate etiology, possibly metastatic
Not sure what to do now

"of indeterminate etiology, possibly metastatic
Not sure what to do now"

I would feel the same as you, but please try and keep those words in bold in mind until you find out more for certain.
profile picture
Ak123
Regular Member
Joined : Nov 2016
Posts : 309
Posted 8/15/2018 6:27 PM (GMT -7)
Thanks billybob,
I just feel it’s a different ball game now, still not sure about any of this
diagnosed on 10/2012 at 58 years old
RP 12/2012, Gleason 3+4, positive margins and EPE, PNI,. T2c.
12/2016 .07
SRT 1/2017 (39 sessions at MSK )
5/2017 .07
7/2017 .10
2/2018 .17
4/2018 .22
8/2018 .36
profile picture
cashlessclay
Regular Member
Joined : Apr 2015
Posts : 253
Posted 8/16/2018 6:13 AM (GMT -7)
AK, personally, no matter what else is going on, I would
feel better knowing my PSA was stable.

Cashless
profile picture
Ak123
Regular Member
Joined : Nov 2016
Posts : 309
Posted 8/16/2018 9:26 AM (GMT -7)
I totally agree with you cashless and do believe in your diet plans, unfortunately it’s
Bad luck for me and I do want to thank you for all your help.
diagnosed on 10/2012 at 58 years old
RP 12/2012, Gleason 3+4, positive margins and EPE, PNI,. T2c.
12/2016 .07
SRT 1/2017 (39 sessions at MSK )
5/2017 .07
7/2017 .10
2/2018 .17
4/2018 .22
8/2018 .36
profile picture
cashlessclay
Regular Member
Joined : Apr 2015
Posts : 253
Posted 8/17/2018 9:44 AM (GMT -7)
My latest PSA test result is 0.505, down slightly from 0.518.

Raspberries appear to make a difference. It doesn't take
many, perhaps 4 or 5, and having a lot more does not
improve the results.

I'm feeling more comfortable in saying that my nominal
diet can hold my PSA steady, and perhaps even roll it back,
albeit slightly.

This is done with food alone. The only supplement I use is
a modest amount of vitamin D, to bring my serum level to
30 ng/mL.

This is a vegan plus (wild) seafood, no "fast" carbs (to control
insulin spikes), no dietary iron spikes, some "soy" and some
"raspberries". Be especially careful with insulin spikes at
breakfast.

Cashless
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Ak123
Regular Member
Joined : Nov 2016
Posts : 309
Posted 8/17/2018 11:47 AM (GMT -7)
I totally believe in your diet cashless although it didn’t work for me. One thing
I am having trouble with is breakfast. I am hungry in the morning and couldn’t
Do the oatmeal with no water or limited amount of liquid and no coffee for
75 minutes. I switched to eating hummus and salad but add 5 or 6 falafel pieces
Baked not fried. I looked at the ingredients and it’s all chick peas. You told
Me to stay away from falafel, can you elaborate please why and if you
Have a better substitute for a better breakfast, I will follow it. Thanks a lot
diagnosed on 10/2012 at 58 years old
RP 12/2012, Gleason 3+4, positive margins and EPE, PNI,. T2c.
12/2016 .07
SRT 1/2017 (39 sessions at MSK )
5/2017 .07
7/2017 .10
2/2018 .17
4/2018 .22 (T=420)
8/2018 .36 (T=660)
profile picture
cashlessclay
Regular Member
Joined : Apr 2015
Posts : 253
Posted 8/17/2018 6:59 PM (GMT -7)
AK . . . the first thing I do in the morning is have a cup of green tea with ginger. Thirty
minutes later I have steelcut oatmeal cooked with a small amount of water with three
goji berries. Once cooked, I add some walnuts, and four raspberries. I then go for a brisk
walk for about 45 minutes. On return, I wait about thirty minutes and start making coffee.

You have told me that:
1) The tea with ginger upsets your stomach, and you stopped it.
2) You did not like the oatmeal, and you stopped it.
3) You don't take the walk but do other exercise instead, and
4) You don't like waiting before you have coffee.

So, when you say . . . "I totally believe in your diet cashless although it didn’t work for me",
It's not clear to me what you mean by "it".

That aside, if your having falafel for breakfast, is it home made or commercial? Give us a
list of all ingredients. What I'm doing (and what you should be doing) is looking for a source
of an "insulin spike" or "iron spike". You need a "spike" free breakfast for any diet to work.

Cashless
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Bon0107
New Member
Joined : Aug 2018
Posts : 1
Posted 8/17/2018 8:06 PM (GMT -7)

Domino95 said...
cashlessclay,

Thank you for your posts regarding diet. My diet is 95% in correlation with yours. And it works for me too.

Please PM me if you want specific diet recommendations from a world renown Radiation Oncologist who treated me. It is not copyrighted information. His recommendations track with what you are eating, except NOT eating walnuts.

Donino95, I am unsure quite how to PM you, but am curious about said diet!
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Ak123
Regular Member
Joined : Nov 2016
Posts : 309
Posted 8/18/2018 8:05 AM (GMT -7)
Donino95, I am very much interested in your diet too. Can you please when
You get a chance send me some info on my email ? Thanks a lot

Post Edited (Ak123) : 8/18/2018 11:33:29 AM (GMT-6)

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Pratoman
Forum Moderator
Joined : Nov 2012
Posts : 7423
Posted 8/18/2018 8:59 AM (GMT -7)
AK, I would highly recommend you delete your email from your post above. Instead, go into your profile and add your email address. In this way, the envelope icon below your name in each post will be a live link to your email. And only registered members can see it. If you leave the email in your post, anyone including spammers, can see it, even if they are not registered on healingwell, and not signed in.

Just a suggestion, its your call
I am not a doctor, just another guy without a prostate
Dx Age 64 Nov 2014, PSA 4.3
BX 3 of 12 cores positive original pathology G6
RALP with Dr Ash Tewari Jan 6, 2015
Post surgical pathology G7 (3+4), - ECE, - Margins, -LN, -SV (+ frozen section apex converted to negative)
PSA @ 6 weeks 2/15, .<02, remained <0.02 until January 2017, .02, repeat Feb 2017, still .02. May 2017-.033, August 2017- .033 November .046, March 2018 .060. June 2018 .068, July 2018 - .082, August 2018, .078
Decipher test, low risk, .37 score
My story.... tinyurl.com/qgyu3xq
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Ak123
Regular Member
Joined : Nov 2016
Posts : 309
Posted 8/18/2018 10:34 AM (GMT -7)
Thanks, pratoman. I just did what you suggested
diagnosed on 10/2012 at 58 years old
RP 12/2012, Gleason 3+4, positive margins and EPE, PNI,. T2c.
12/2016 .07
SRT 1/2017 (39 sessions at MSK )
5/2017 .07
7/2017 .10
2/2018 .17
4/2018 .22 (T=420)
8/2018 .36 (T=660)
profile picture
cashlessclay
Regular Member
Joined : Apr 2015
Posts : 253
Posted 8/20/2018 3:20 PM (GMT -7)
Bacon and eggs anyone?
To rephrase the question . . . Arachidonic Acid (AA) anyone?

From the study below . . .
"Conclusion: The data supports the hypothesis that AA not only promotes
CaP invasion, it also prepares the 'soil', making it more supportive for implantation
and propagation of the migrating metastatic cell." . . .

Also, Arachidonic content of foods is given here.

/wholefoodcatalog.info/nutrient/arachidonic_acid/eggs/

/openi.nlm.nih.gov/detailedresult.php?img=PMC2816655_6605481f5&req=4

Note: Can't seem to get second reference clickable, but copy and search works.

Cashless
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BillyBob@388
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2014
Posts : 3915
Posted 8/20/2018 5:17 PM (GMT -7)

cashlessclay said...
Bacon and eggs anyone?
To rephrase the question . . . Arachidonic Acid (AA) anyone?

From the study below . . .
"Conclusion: The data supports the hypothesis that AA not only promotes
CaP invasion, it also prepares the 'soil', making it more supportive for implantation
and propagation of the migrating metastatic cell." . . .

Also, Arachidonic content of foods is given here.

/wholefoodcatalog.info/nutrient/arachidonic_acid/eggs/

/openi.nlm.nih.gov/detailedresult.php?img=PMC2816655_6605481f5&req=4

Note: Can't seem to get second reference clickable, but copy and search works.

Cashless

Man, I know exactly what you mean, Cashless! I actually avoided eggs for at least 2 or 3 years after my surgery. After I read a study from Harvard showing that any amount of eggs- or chicken with skin- doubled or much worse the rate of PC progression, especially for high risk guys like me. So I stayed away. This was also a period where I picked up 25 lbs.

But then I found other studies that did not find any where near the amount of risk with eggs(don't know where those are at the moment) and some that even found that chicken is protective!

Anyway, I still look at eggs with some caution. But talk about a rock and a hard place! They blamed the worse outcome on the choline in the eggs. Choline is an essential nutrient. And in this day an age of ever increasing Alzheimer's, it is particularly important for the brain, as is cholesterol and fat.

Also, there are some other folks claiming that the main problem with choline is when it is combined with certain carbs, in particular wheat. Then it ends up forming TMAO, which is the supposed real source of the problems. I don't know, these are just things I read.

But you and I share an aversion to excess insulin, an essential part of the Standard American Diet SAD. And eggs make my low carb, low insulin diet so much easier to do without giving up all foods I love. Plus, if I improve my PC outlook at the cost of my brain health? Rock and a hard place for me.

As I looked at those studies cursing eggs, it occurred to me: don't you know, almost without any question, that the guys who ate more eggs in the Harvard PC studies, did not eat eggs by themselves, or indeed even eggs with just bacon? Don't we all know dang well most of these folks ate these eggs with grits, toast and jelly, hash browns and or pancakes or waffles with syrup? Almost no one eats eggs without a butt load of carbs to go with them. I doubt they adjusted for every thing else these men ate other than eggs.

If that is the case, what was the real cause of the much higher rate of BCR in the men who ate eggs(and chicken), at least in the Harvard study? Could it be that these men - on average- also ate a very high carb diet, like most Americans do? Maybe before they ate those eggs, they had a nice big glass of OJ, and then had biscuits and gravy, maybe some hash browns or even a waffle or pancakes with plenty of syrup?

I'm betting most of the egg eaters in the Harvard study ate- a little or a lot- in exactly that fashion. And I bet the majority of them had high blood insulin and were even pre- or past pre- diabetics. If so, did this contribute to their relapse maybe even a lot more than the eggs? What if they ate a very low insulin diet including eggs, rather than the high carb diet with eggs that most of them almost certainly ate? Would they still have progressed at such a higher rate? I do wonder. In fact, I even wonder: if their egg consumption had been part of a low carb, low insulin diet, might they have progressed at a lower than average rate? It seems possible to me. There are jst too many variables here.

Perhaps people that rarely ate eggs were very health conscious vegans or close to it? People who ate a relatively low insulin diet as well as few or zero eggs? If so, did they not progress because they didn't eat eggs or because they ate a diet that produced low insulin?

Those are questions I have always had regarding how bad- or maybe good- eggs are for us. Particularly considering how essential choline is for our health, other than the possible PC thing.

BTW, the best sources of arachidonic acid(as opposed to choline) are:
/www.livestrong.com/article/38903-foods-high-arachidonic-acid/

Somebody said...

1:
Poultry Products

In the 2005-2006 National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, or NHANES, chicken and chicken-mixed dishes contributed the most to arachidonic acid intake in America. A 1-cup serving of a roasted chicken broiler contains 0.154 gram of arachidonic acid. Duck contains the highest level of arachidonic acid among lean meats, according to a study conducted on dietary arachidonic acid among meat fat.

Fish Sources

Fish is best known for being a rich source of omega-3 fatty acids, which are also essential for a healthy body. But fish also contains arachidonic acid, classified as an omega-6 fatty acid. For example, a 3-ounce serving of Atlantic or Pacific halibut contains 0.002 gram. Wild Atlantic salmon contains a little more with 0.291 gram per 3-ounce serving. NHANES found that fish and fish products contributed around 5.8 percent of the total intake of arachidonic acid in America.
Hard-Boiled Eggs

One large hard-boiled egg contains 0.074 gram of arachidonic acid. Eggs were found to be the second largest contributor to arachidonic intake among American, according to NHANES. If you have high cholesterol or are at risk for the condition, consume eggs in moderation. While eggs contain essential nutrients your body needs, one large hard-boiled egg contributes 186 milligrams of cholesterol to your diet.
Beef and Beef Products

While beef and beef products are the third top contributor of arachidonic acid to the American diet, according to NHANES, they contain lower levels of arachidonic acid when compared to white meats. Dark meats including beef and lamb are higher in omega-3 fatty acids but still contain arachidonic acid. A 3-ounce serving of beef roast contains 0.042 gram of arachidonic acid.

.

Salmon contains 4 times the AA that eggs do? Wow!

Of course red meat contains arachidonic acid, but in the Harvard study that was such bad news about eggs, they found zero relation of PC progression with even the highest amounts of red meat or even the highest amounts of processed red meat!

Still, I know what you mean about the eggs. They still give me pause.

Post Edited (BillyBob@388) : 8/20/2018 6:31:45 PM (GMT-6)

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Pratoman
Forum Moderator
Joined : Nov 2012
Posts : 7423
Posted 8/20/2018 5:38 PM (GMT -7)
I didn’t read the entire post (too tired) but I just want to say, I stayed away from eggs, just ate whites, for a long time. But now I’m eating whole eggs whenever I want. It hasn’t changed the trajectory of my PSA. That doesn’t prove anything. But I figure I’m doing adt+SRT anyway, so what’s the difference.
I am not a doctor, just another guy without a prostate
Dx Age 64 Nov 2014, PSA 4.3
BX 3 of 12 cores positive original pathology G6
RALP with Dr Ash Tewari Jan 6, 2015
Post surgical pathology G7 (3+4), - ECE, - Margins, -LN, -SV (+ frozen section apex converted to negative)
PSA @ 6 weeks 2/15, .<02, remained <0.02 until January 2017, .02, repeat Feb 2017, still .02. May 2017-.033, August 2017- .033 November .046, March 2018 .060. June 2018 .068, July 2018 - .082, August 2018, .078
Decipher test, low risk, .37 score
My story.... tinyurl.com/qgyu3xq
My PSA History - /app.box.com/v/PSA-History
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InTheShop
Elite Member
Joined : Jan 2012
Posts : 11073
Posted 8/20/2018 6:09 PM (GMT -7)
Eggs scrambled in butter, yum...
I'll be in the shop.
Age 58, 52 at DX
PSA:
4.2 10/11, 1.9 6/12, 1.2 12/12, 1.0 5/13, .6 11/13,
.7 5/14, .5 10/14, .5 4/15, .3 10/15, .3 4/16, .4 10/16, .4 5/17, .3 10/17 .3 4/18
G 3+4
Stage T1C
2 out of 14 cores positive
Treatment IGRT - 2/2012
My latest blog post
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BillyBob@388
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2014
Posts : 3915
Posted 8/20/2018 6:33 PM (GMT -7)

Pratoman said...
I didn’t read the entire post (too tired) but I just want to say, I stayed away from eggs, just ate whites, for a long time. But now I’m eating whole eggs whenever I want. It hasn’t changed the trajectory of my PSA. That doesn’t prove anything. But I figure I’m doing adt+SRT anyway, so what’s the difference.

I can't say that I noticed an increase in my slow upward climb once I added more eggs back into the mix, other than the sharp jump which accompanied the change in calibration of the machine, and which held steady before turning back down. IOW, I'm not sure how much of that increase was real. Or even the turn back downwards. Who knows, there are so many variables. There will never be the types of studies to really tell us what we need to know, we just have to make our best guess it seems. I feel the last round of official advice from government and medicine gave us a nation(world?) of obese diabetics, so I hesitate to listen to them about much.
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Pratoman
Forum Moderator
Joined : Nov 2012
Posts : 7423
Posted 8/20/2018 7:12 PM (GMT -7)
I’ve also been eating cheese daily.

I’ve decided I can’t live a life of denial. Maybe I’ll pay for that one day. But Nobody Knows Anything For Sure
I am not a doctor, just another guy without a prostate
Dx Age 64 Nov 2014, PSA 4.3
BX 3 of 12 cores positive original pathology G6
RALP with Dr Ash Tewari Jan 6, 2015
Post surgical pathology G7 (3+4), - ECE, - Margins, -LN, -SV (+ frozen section apex converted to negative)
PSA @ 6 weeks 2/15, .<02, remained <0.02 until January 2017, .02, repeat Feb 2017, still .02. May 2017-.033, August 2017- .033 November .046, March 2018 .060. June 2018 .068, July 2018 - .082, August 2018, .078
Decipher test, low risk, .37 score
My story.... tinyurl.com/qgyu3xq
My PSA History - /app.box.com/v/PSA-History
profile picture
cashlessclay
Regular Member
Joined : Apr 2015
Posts : 253
Posted 8/21/2018 7:54 PM (GMT -7)
Billybob says . . . " Salmon contains 4 times the AA that eggs do? Wow!"
. . . based on Wild Atlantic salmon containing 0.291 gram per 3-ounce serving.

Billybob, the arachidonic acid content of salmon is highly variable. The wild
Atlantic salmon above equates to 342 mg/100 gram serving. Wild sockeye salmon,
has about 25 mg/100 gm.

So, I'll say that eggs contain 3 times the AA that sockeye salmon does. Wow!

On the other hand, farmed raised fish can contain many times the AA content of
wild fish.



/wholefoodcatalog.info/nutrient/arachidonic_acid/fishes_and_shellfishes/14/

Cashless
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BillyBob@388
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2014
Posts : 3915
Posted 8/21/2018 9:39 PM (GMT -7)

cashlessclay said...
Billybob says . . . " Salmon contains 4 times the AA that eggs do? Wow!"
. . . based on Wild Atlantic salmon containing 0.291 gram per 3-ounce serving.

Billybob, the arachidonic acid content of salmon is highly variable. The wild
Atlantic salmon above equates to 342 mg/100 gram serving. Wild sockeye salmon,
has about 25 mg/100 gm.

So, I'll say that eggs contain 3 times the AA that sockeye salmon does. Wow!

On the other hand, farmed raised fish can contain many times the AA content of
wild fish.



/wholefoodcatalog.info/nutrient/arachidonic_acid/fishes_and_shellfishes/14/

Cashless

I guess I was just surprised that ANY salmon would have more AA than eggs. I am not surprised at the opposite, seems more like what I would expect. Looks like wild sockeye is the way to go if eating salmon.
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martian2
New Member
Joined : Aug 2018
Posts : 12
Posted 8/25/2018 9:03 PM (GMT -7)
My husband has been diagnosed on 06/07/2018 with PC and had his robotic surgery 2 weeks,ago. Since he discovered he became totally vegan based on the book "How not to die". Veggies only, nuts, olive oil and coconut oil. The pathological found some metastasized lymph nodes ..I am not so sure if this diet would help him..sad(. He eats just little bit of salmon...Where could he get the proteins??
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Pratoman
Forum Moderator
Joined : Nov 2012
Posts : 7423
Posted 8/26/2018 8:57 AM (GMT -7)
Martian, welcome to the forum. To answer your questions, protein 9n a vegan diet could come from beans, or soy. I’m not an expert, I’m sure there are other sources available, hopefully someone like Cashless will chime in
I am not a doctor, just another guy without a prostate
Dx Age 64 Nov 2014, PSA 4.3
BX 3 of 12 cores positive original pathology G6
RALP with Dr Ash Tewari Jan 6, 2015
Post surgical pathology G7 (3+4), - ECE, - Margins, -LN, -SV (+ frozen section apex converted to negative)
PSA @ 6 weeks 2/15, .<02, remained <0.02 until January 2017, .02, repeat Feb 2017, still .02. May 2017-.033, August 2017- .033 November .046, March 2018 .060. June 2018 .068, July 2018 - .082, August 2018, .078, August 2018 - .08
Decipher test, low risk, .37 score
My story.... tinyurl.com/qgyu3xq
My PSA History - /drive.google.com/file/d/1ltbG8x-iyH3k9pEltudhXt9u1krRwJSH/view?usp=sharing
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Sr Sailor
Veteran Member
Joined : Sep 2015
Posts : 745
Posted 8/26/2018 6:08 PM (GMT -7)
This thread is interesting, but mostly anecdotal.
DOB 1940
Dec 2012: GP felt a nodule and hardened prostate; confirmed by urologist
PSA: 11.9 ng/ml
Biopsy (3/1/2013): Several Gleason 4+5 loci (prostate=45 ml)
Stage: T2c
Transferred to RO
Casodex 1 month; then Lupron 5/13 through 12/14 (18 months total)
Jul-Sep 2013: SBRT (CyberKnife; 3 x 6.5 Gy) followed by IMRT (25 x 1.8 Gy)
Lowest PSA thereafter: 0.1 (3/20/15)
Latest (06/18) PSA = 1.4 ng/ml
profile picture
cashlessclay
Regular Member
Joined : Apr 2015
Posts : 253
Posted 8/27/2018 11:56 AM (GMT -7)
Martian2,

Getting adequate protein can be challenging. There are no
easy solutions. I get about 50 grams of protein per day. The
main sources are hummus, nuts, beans, lentils and seafood.

Cashless
profile picture
trailguy
Veteran Member
Joined : Jul 2015
Posts : 598
Posted 8/27/2018 2:00 PM (GMT -7)
I agree with you, Sailor.

Answer #1) The sirloin steak comment, while totally factual, is another "unsubstantiated testimonial", just one of many on this thread. Like the others, there is no actual proof of my comment either.

Answer #2) I made the raspberry pie because they are in season, my farmer friend has them at his farm stand and I make the very best raspberry pie. EDIT: ...and my wife just loves my raspberry pie

We are all desperate to control something (cancer) that is beyond our control. Since diet would be an easy fix, many of us credit it with powers it does not have. We feel that what we are doing is stopping a beast or perhaps slowing it down. The fact is that this is not supported by what is termed "science" Sorry, I wish it was different.

Let me know if you need the recipe for raspberry pie...before the season is over.

Carry on. turn
67 yo, 2012 PSA=11, 12/12 cores +. DVRP 12/27/12. 36 g gland 35% PCa,EC ext., 2 SV+,+ marg T3bNXMX, G7(4+3). 2 week post-RP PSA=0.2, Firmagon ADT. Cont @ 3 mo, EBRT prostate bed and interior pelvic lymph nodes ~ 80 Gy/40 ses. Last 6 mo. Eligard 10/14. 4/15 T=2.2, PSA<.02. 10/16 T=204, PSA=.08, 2/17 PSA=.13, 3/17 T=307 PSA=.19, 4/17 PSA=.21, 4/18 PSA=.65 6/18 PSA=1.15 8/18 PSA=1.15

Post Edited (trailguy) : 8/27/2018 3:04:36 PM (GMT-6)

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Cigafred
Regular Member
Joined : Aug 2014
Posts : 165
Posted 8/28/2018 6:18 AM (GMT -7)
My understanding is that beans and rice together make a complete protein?
PSA 5.3, RP 2009, Gl 3+4, neg margins, focal PNI, SRT 2012
PSA doubling time 13 mths, high 2.77
Nano-MRI 2014: 8 lymph node mets 4 to 9 mm, 6 para-aortic left, 2 common iliac right. Jan 2015 PSA 3.26, doubling time about 3 mths
Degarelix 4 mths 2-6/2015
FebMar 2015 IMRT 50 grays.
Dec 2016-now, Degarelix, PSA last 13: 0.02
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