Fully Vaccinated Breakthrough COVID Infection——-My Experience

Tim G said...

Pratoman said...
I'll just say i agree with Tud and mattam. I am also, as mattam said, weary. I am tired of thinking about, worrying about, talking about, and living with Covid. But its not going away, so we do the best we can. If i say anything further, it will just be inflammatory.Thats how angry i get on the subject

So i'll shut my mouth from here on. You're welcome

Wise advice, Pratoman. I recently tried to ask someone questions about Covid vaccinations and he danced around but didn't answer my questions. Better for my mental health and others to leave well enough alone.

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Tim, in case that is me you are referring to, I thought I gave you a thorough answer but maybe I was not specific enough. I certainly did not intend to dance around, so I will try again:
"@BillyBob You and I both spent our careers working in healthcare and both of us understanding the scientific method. You write that the vaccines were rushed. What to you would constitute scientific proof that the three current vaccines against Covid-19 are safe and effective?"
I am not here to anti-vax, my main view is, as I think people know, that most of these deaths did not have to happen, even with NO vax. Which is why I have repeated my bet: how many who are dying in ICU from Covid had high blood levels of the various substances I have mentioned in the past? I'm betting pretty close to zero. Any takers? Of course, the few times they have checked, not only does no one(or almost no one) have high levels, they not surprisingly have VERY LOW levels. Dangerously low. So, taking risk on new drugs when they refuse to look into or promote existing remedies seems not really needed.

As for safe, it will - just like with all drugs- be several years before we know if they are really safe. We will have to see what injecting these totally new types of mRNA "vaccines" actually does to us long term. I will have to find out for myself, since I am double vaxed. After all, these are not vaccines in the sense of what we are used to, are they? This is not taking a dead or weakened virus and injecting it and allowing our immune systems to react to the entire, hopefully harmless, virus. This is quite different and it will take a while to really know what we have done. In the meantime, some have died and others have reported myocarditis, etc. Which, if it saves many more lives than would have died without it would be worth it. But did we really do all we could have done to prevent severe illness and save lives, using available, cheap and relatively safe approaches? I certainly do not believe that we did. I know you believe different, so we will just have to agree to disagree.

As for effective, well, we are still suffering from huge problems, and more and more people who are vaxed are showing up quite sick, and are getting ready to inject more of these molecules which have never existed in the human body before. How safe and effective will that be? I guess we will find out.


"Also, please clarify for me your position on "various substances that could have saved many lives". Are you saying that these are superior to the vaccines for preventing Covid-19 infection and its health consequences?"
Yes I am, at least in my opinion, or at the very least equal. I simply refer you to the MATH+ protocol used by the extremely highly qualified physicians of the FLCCC. I have copied their credentials here before and it is not possible for anyone to call them quacks. They are treating patients in the ICUs and CCUs.

TudPock has said something like "you have your experts, I have mine". Well, my experts are just as qualified as anyones, and more so than a Dr. Fauci. Because unlike him, they are treating patients. And their mortality rates are vastly lower than the competition. And that is AFTER people who are deathly ill show up in their ICUs. Imagine what could be done if people did the right things BEFORE they needed ICU? And of course, there are the many, many other studies I have linked to over the last year and a half, some of which were treatments with some of these older approaches. With much improved results along with a long term proven safety profile.

So, yes, Tim, I believe we could have done a job equal to or superior to vaccines or antibodies or Remdesivir, and with greater safety, if a larger number of our docs had just been willing to try. Now, Tim, I realize might be wrong, I admit. But no one ever really put it to the test, did they? (except for the very few docs I have mentioned, who have had such good results) And while Dr. fauci himself admitted to taking 6000 IU/day of D as well as C, because of it's proven efficacy in other infectious disease, he never went on air and said to the public "maybe you guys should also consider this", now did he? Nope, all I ever heard him say was that there was nothing to help until a new vaccine or drug appeared. I don't think he has changed on that, still saying there is no help except the vaccine and maybe monoclonal antibodies. But according to at least a few ICU docs, he is very wrong about that.

"Are you saying that both the "various substances" and the vaccines are the best defense against Covid19?". I am NOT advising anyone against the vaccine. I suspect that at the very least it is lowering death rates, even if it does not do much to keep us from getting the virus and spreading it. Plus, that is what many people and docs are willing to do, so at least that is something. But, YES, I most assuredly think anyone taking the vaccine will still be MUCH better off taking advantage of some of the other available approaches.

Now, I know that was lengthy, and I know that- even though I did not repeat quotes from (the MANY) earlier studies I have linked to- some of you still think I am "strangling" rather than "caressing". But it seems my earlier response might have been thought of as "dancing around", so clarification was needed. Tim, I hope that clarifies my position for you, and I truly hope I am not making you or anyone else angry by confessing my opinions(though I can't imagine why people get so angry over these FACTS and STUDIES). Regardless, follow the science and remember:
1: in the Tulane ICU, the sicker their patients were from Covid, the lower their vitamin D, and ONE HUNDRED % of Covid/ICU patients under age 75 were deficient in vitamin D, with most severely deficient
2: In a hospital in Barcelona, 17 of 18 Covid/ICU patients were UNDETECTABLE for vitamin C, and one was merely severely low(but at least detectable)
3: In another hospital in Spain(and Belgium), they administered a fast acting form of vitamin D(calcifediol) to one group of Covid/hosptalized patients, the other group got the same treatment except for the vitamin D. "Among 26 patients not treated with calcifediol, thirteen required ICU admission (50 %), while out of fifty patients treated with calcifediol only one(2%) required admission to the ICU..............Of the patients treated with calcifediol, none died, and all were discharged, without complications.................. The 13 patients not treated with calcifediol, who were not admitted to the ICU, were discharged. Of the 13 patients admitted to the ICU, ( NO D group) two died.........". https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc7456194/
4: The MATH+ protocol has been used is some ICUs for the duration of this pandemic, well before we got the vaccines, with outstanding results. But few hospitals do the same, apparently. https://journals.sagepub.com/na101/home/literatum/publisher/sage/journals/content/jica/2021/jica_36_2/0885066620973585/20210112/images/large/10.1177_0885066620973585-table2.jpeg


https://covid19criticalcare.com/about/the-flccc-physicians/

Post Edited (BillyBob@388) : 9/4/2021 3:55:10 PM (GMT-6)

F8 said...

BillyBob@388 said...
Keep an eye on Israel. They have a very interesting situation, since they are about the most highly vaxed nation, and they will probably soon be the most highly boosted nation.

Sweden is also very interesting. Though they did not mandate much of anything as far as shut downs, masks, social distancing, etc, I think they do have a fairly high vax rate. On a "deaths per 100K" basis, they are not at all the best on earth but they are for sure quite a bit ahead of many developed nations, including us.(they are #40 on a list of nations for "deaths per 100K", we are #21).

However, their 7 day moving average of Covid deaths has been between 0 and 2(out of about a 10 million population) since about June. In my state, at less than 1/2 the population, sadly we have a current 7 day average new deaths of about 33. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

https://msdh.ms.gov/msdhsite/_static/14,21995,420,873.html

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

youre talking about two very small countries with a combined population about half the population of california. but i do agree israel is one to keep an eye on since they are aggressively boosting even kids now. alot of the confusion about covid is because we are learning as we go, and some people are looking for any discrepancy to lose their minds over or any "cure" besides proven vaccinations (hint: mooooo! moooo!).

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"hint: mooooo! moooo!" ????? Oh, I get it, I think. Are you implying(just as evening TV news keeps doing) that IVM is not an FDA approved drug for humans, it is only for cattle? Saying that the drug which is on the WHO's list of essential drugs, whose "inventors" won a 2015 Nobel prize, is a drug that was only for cattle? If so, you might want to research that one a bit more.

Post Edited (BillyBob@388) : 9/4/2021 9:39:16 PM (GMT-6)

Tim, I appreciate that response very much. And in the areas where you (and others) might differ with me, I almost hope that you are right and I am wrong. Because, even though many folks are refusing the vaccine, it seems evident to me that many more will refuse the things that I talk so much about. In addition, many- maybe most- docs will either refuse to consider "my" ideas or are simply not interested. With a few being outright hostile to those other approaches. Therefore, since most folks(including, importantly, docs) are enthusiastic about the vaccines, then that is what is going to end up being the dominant approach. That is what most people are going to do. Therefore I want it to work and I want it to be safe. And if that wasn't enough, since I gave in and went with my wife to get both shots, and since my entire family and far as I know all of my friends are double vaxed, then I obviously strongly desire that it will be extremely safe long term. Even if deep down I feel none of this was really necessary(though I admit I could still be proven wrong), since we have all had it, I want it to be safe and work.

Re: "And it maddens me that the ferocious delta variant would in all probability been prevented had everyone gotten the vaccine.". Yes, many people seem to be angry about that possibility, but (of course, I'm always the odd man out, no?) I have a different opinion on that one. First, there was never a reasonable chance that every one on earth would get vaccinated, thus variants were bound to show up and spread. Next, Israel is the most highly vaxed nation, and they are having quite a time with Delta. Next, was Delta already out there in a few people before we even managed to get the vaccines with almost miraculous speed compared to all previous vaccines? Also, with limited supply, it was always going to take a while to get every one vaxed even if they were all willing, so, again, variants were almost a sure bet.

Thanks for your reasoned thoughts, Tim! Stay healthy, by whatever means(plural) that might work!

Still no word from JNF? Hope you are well.

I commend all for a very healthy discussion (pro and con) on covid and the various options available to mitigate the damage the virus causes. Many of us served our country to secure the basic freedoms of discourse that our forefathers designed in our founding documents. It's good to see that being practiced without personal attacks.

I was raised in a era that emphasized critical thinking. I was taught not to believe everything I was told by 'experts' without first examining the evidence myself and observing outcomes over time.

There is quite a difference between what we were told initially by Fauci, et. al., and what we know today. We were given the impression that the vaccines would prevent both covid infections and transmissions. Today, even the CDC, has openly admitted that mRNA vaccines do neither. (See Covid-19 Science Update released: August 13, 2021 Edition 102). Hence, there is no reason to believe that if "everyone got vaccinated" that we could defeat covid.

Today we know that the vaccinated both harbor and transmit covid. Hopefully, that will put to rest the conspiracy that the unvaccinated were the root of all our problems.

Israeli scientists have determined through independent analysis that those who were fully vaccinated had a 13x greater chance of a covid infection and 27x greater chance of symptomatic covid presentations than the unvaccinated population that had a previous covid infection. Israel is undergoing a very problematic infection rate even though it's population is one of the most vaccinated nations on the planet. Yet, those with natural immunity are not given the privileges of those who took the jab. They are fired from their jobs for refusing the shot or denied a seat in a university - even though their immunity against covid is stronger and lasts longer than a vaccinated person. Unfair discrimination is alive and well.

In fact, there’s some new evidence that double-vaxxed individuals who get Covid will build up huge viral loads in their noses and sinuses, causing them to become super-spreaders and infect others. This is not confirmed and continues to get investigated.

The story continues to evolve. Things we were told at the onset of covid turned out to be untrue. This garners more suspicion in the public. The majority consensus now is that covid did not occur "naturally" but resulted from a "lab leak". Back in the day those who questioned the involvement of the Wuhan Lab were labeled 'conspiracists'.

The "official" covid survival rate in 98.2%. Of course, the obese, the aged with co-morbidities and those with low levels of certain vitamins and minerals (ie. VitD, etc..) have higher morbidity rates and need to be EXTRA vigilant and carefully examine the benefit of vaccines. Keep in mind that official 98.2% figure is only for reported covid cases. Many cases go unreported and the person survives. So the official number, albeit high, may still be overstated.

Most important, everyone should consult with a doctor(s) they trust to determine what is best for him or her. Like most health care decisions, it comes down to individual choice decided on the basis of benefit and risk.

Have vaccines saved some lives? You bet they have. And that's a good thing. The problem is the lack of longitudinal studies that address mid to long-term side effect safety profiles. But with millions of people who accepted that particular risk by taking the shots - we will have our answer 5 to 10 years down the road.

It's unfortunate that early treatment with other cheap therapeutic agents known to have saved lives in other countries were not made available to Americans in our time of need. Those too may have saved tens of thousands of lives.

Blessings to all during the long holiday weekend.

And best of luck to everyone in your personal decisions regarding covid.

Michael,

Please read the recent CDC publication below:

https://www.cdc.gov/library/covid19/08132021_covidupdate.html

The large majority of deaths were in the 65+ age category. Those with obesity and other co-morbidities. Most agreed they needed immediate treatment after contracting covid. The problem was that most did not receive any treatment until they became so sick they had to be admitted to the hospital and by that time it was too late. We had cheap therapeutics that were effective in other nations we could've used here to save some lives. We didn't do that. 99% of younger healthy people generally survived covid.

A huge percent of old people in nursing homes contributed to the deaths. In some states I saw figures of 50% of more of the deaths were nursing home patients. That's because politicians put sick covid patients into the nursing homes and infected the healthy residents. These victims simply weren't protected when everyone knew they were the greatest at risk. Most everyone agrees with that analysis today.

Me? I want to make my own healthcare decisions. I don't want you and others to make my decisions for me, whatever I choose to do, especially knowing that vaccinated people are as likely to become infected with covid and spread it as the unvaccinated.

I wish you all the best in your decison-making process.

Yep. I did serve. I'm not in the Army today. My D.I. doesn't tell me what to do any more. I make my own decisions. And the vaccines I received in the Army were proven to be safe. They weren't developed in less than a year. And they all had longitudinal studies to support their safety profiles.

Polio vaccine? It took Salk 7 years to develop the vaccine. And it was a live vaccine. Not a brand new technology like the mRNA injection. We know how live vaccines work. The jury is out on the long-term ramifications of the mRNA injection. But I certainly won't criticize you for taking it. Your body. Your choice.

Fauci's tenure in government means next to nothing to me. What he says while in that position does since it has a wide impact of influence.

You can research the cheap therapeutics used in multiple countries that are proven safe and were effective in combating covid. The information is widely available. You can find it with a few clicks of the mouse.

I see the discussion is turning a little snarky. So this will be my last comment.

Pratoman said...

I wonder if they know whats in their hot dogs that they'll be grilling this weekend

An appropriate closing comment for a thread that is going nowhere. No one is convincing anyone of anything. I don't get their logic and they clearly don't get ours. Let's lock it up and move on to prostate cancer again. Jack, the one thing posters on this thread do have in common is a wish for your speedy recovery. When you feel up to it please start a new thread and give us an update.

Jim