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GreenAcres
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 474
   Posted 8/26/2006 7:55 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi, Wicket. Thought I'd start a new topic for you (and give Arcafan's back :)   )
 
No questions are silly/mundane. For me, I obsessed over fear of the bag (the catheter). How to change from leg to overnight and the tubing - fear of introducing bacteria into husb's bladder like toxic shock or something. It turned out to be no big deal - at least for me.
 
So, as far as waiting during the surgery - will you have family with you? I'm sure that will help, although I'm such a loner, I was "mostly" fine without. I worked on my laptop, read newspapers, took magazines, and a book, just in case. Drank high octane coffee - wrong thing to do - wanted to chatter and pace. Find a really good paperback - one that will allow you to mindlessly read - that's all I ended up doing during the recovery and throughout the night in the hospital (when I should have been working - couldn't concentrate!)
 
You'll have millions more questions - that's why I landed here, so I could ask and get knowlegeable answers from everyone. So, keep 'em coming!

Wicket
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 316
   Posted 8/26/2006 4:58 PM (GMT -7)   
GreenAcres,
     Thanks for the offer of help with questions.  Boy today hasn't been good for me.  I think reading all these posts sometimes make it worse...I guess I didn't realize it was major surgery til I was reading it in here...also never realized he would have to be on a ventilator.
     I have a real problem with invasive procedures and surgery is certainly invasive!!!  I've had a phobia of doctors since I had an bad experience with one 25 years ago...I just don't go and the idea of him going thru all this is awful hard on me.  He on the other hand is out building his shop and thinking nothing of it.  Having him going thru the biopsy was bad enough, but this!!!
     Questions!!  Well let me see...I was concerned about the cathater too..you say it's no problem..I hope there are instructions on what to do with it cause I have no idea.  I'm making a list of things I think I'll need to buy..like a donut for him to sit on etc.  Guess that's all I can do now.
     Yes I'll have my daughter with me when he has surgery...we haven't told the kids yet, but will when the time comes.
     Thanks again for listening.

spinbiscuit
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 818
   Posted 8/26/2006 5:56 PM (GMT -7)   
Hello Wicket,

I'm not going to say any of the things your family will experience are going to be easy because they certainly are not, but as a family you will draw strength from each other's support, and you will get through this frightening cancer together. There I've said the word, and yes that word carries terrible power, but I and my family are beating it, and so will yours. Take comfort in knowing your surgeon is using the most advanced technology in the world (the DaVinci Machine). Most importantly it offers the opportunity to be cured.

So let us all try to help your family get through this surgery, and ease some of your concerns. I don't think you can ask too many questions.

We're here for you,

Glen

Wicket
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 316
   Posted 8/26/2006 6:26 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks Glen,

You don't know how much your words of comfort mean to me right now.

Only question I can think of is what is a sensative PSA test compared to a regular one?

I'm glad to hear you're on the mend now and hope you won't have to have any more surgeries in the future!!
Ellen

spinbiscuit
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 818
   Posted 8/26/2006 7:45 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi again Ellen,

I just had my second PSA test (one every 3 months for the 1st year) the score I received was less than .1 this was a conventional reading. I have seen PSA tests score expressed as .01 which I assume to be the sensative readings, and would have come from the latest testing equipment. I'm sure Swimom will have all the technical information on the sensative PSA test. The advantage for me however is that the conventional PSA test results are within 45 minutes, and because I tend to worry needlessly a quick test result is very important. Dr. Engel knows this so before he even gets in the room he says," Your Fine!"

After each little victory comes a celebration, and that would have to be BBQ ribs, slaw, and steak cut fries. Very soon your family will be doing the same of coarse the cusine may vary, but the joy is the same.

Thanks for your kind wishes,

Glen

Wicket
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 316
   Posted 8/26/2006 8:49 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Glen,

I'm sure you're posted this before, but Curtis, my husband, would like to know what your stats where before surgery. PSA etc. and how old you were? Curtis is 63, PSA 4.10 Gleason 3+3 and 3+4, Stage T1C...I have no idea what all that means, but the ur doc said it was cureable...that's all I heard.
Ellen
Ellen


Swimom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 1732
   Posted 8/26/2006 9:39 PM (GMT -7)   
Glen,

You are right...the traditional PSA has a reliable sensitivity of .1. Your's is less than the relaible detection limit so congrats..whoo-hoo! Party at Glens!!!!

If you had had an ultra-sensitive one done, it takes days longer. Depending on the assay used by the lab, it could be as low a limit as .003. Still only reliable to .01 though, so why make a man nervous? "Any" rise in the first 1-2 years is watched for recurrence. Lab error is the first thing ruled out when a rise pops up. Some never go anywhere and some do.

It all gets down to, is a real rise? Have there been rises in serial PSA's to confirm or rule out a real rise? Has lab error been ruled out? Is it a fast or slow rise? How long since the procedure did a rise occur? Slope, trends, pathology and time from procedure are the things they look at.

Paul's surgeon began by using an ultra sensitive assay so he will continue to do so in all future PSA's. It would be foolish to go traditional after having done ultra's for the first year. The only advantage to an ultrasensitive is perhaps a better lead time in detecting recurrences. Oh boy, longer time to be a nervous wreck because they still aren't going to do anything unless it hits above .4! IMHO, ultrasensitive PSA's have the potential of causing a lot of unecessary stress. Paul served his years having tumor markers drawn already. Testicular cancer is checked monthly in the first year and every other the second year. Then, it's every six months through year 5, then anually. I kinda wish they hadn't started with the ultra-sensitive PSA's.

Now that Paul is back on testosterone his PSA will be every 3 months for the first 2 years then 6 months after that....forever. The only saving grace we have is that a rise should have been seen in July if there was going to be one and his remained at <.005! If he stays clean for a year his surgeon truely believes he will remain free of cancer...since we all know testosterone therapy feeds PCa. Scary but the T has improved his quality of life so much it has been worth a few more gray hairs! Instead of feeling like an 80 year old man he feels almost 50...which he is!

Swim

spinbiscuit
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 818
   Posted 8/27/2006 5:35 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Ellen,

Sorry I didn't catch your last post, but I started my walking exercises just 2 days ago, and it wears me out
(I'm a wimp!). So here are my numbers:

60 yrs old @ diagnosis 11/15/05, PSA 3.8, Gleason (3+3) 6, biopsey-2 positive out of 14 cores 10% each, negative boundaries. The surgery was performed 02/23/06. I went in Thursday afternoon, and was in the car headed home by 9:30 am Saturday Morning. Total time in the hospital was about 1 1/2 days. The Foley tube/bag was removed 5 days later.

Dr. Engel was very confident as is your surgeon that I was a perfect candidate for the DaVinci procedure.
In general doctors are very conservative, and don't use the word "CURE" unless they are absolutely sure the procedure will be successful. Curtis is going to be just fine. When is the procedure scheduled?

Glen

Wicket
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 316
   Posted 8/27/2006 9:17 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Glen,

Well you sound to have been pretty close to Curtis in your diagnosis and age.

How long does it take to get back to feeling normal again after the surgery. You said you just started your walking exercises after 6 months and are you contenient now? I think that's one of the most important things that Curtis is worried about...that and getting all the cancer, of course.

We don't have a surgery date yet. We just found out last Monday that he had the horrible C word and have an appointment with a Di Vinci surgeon on September 11th...Guess he'll tell us then when the surgery will be. Ooh I'm so scared for him!!!

By the way...I'm sure you're not a wimp!!!
Ellen


spinbiscuit
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 818
   Posted 8/27/2006 10:59 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Ellen,

I should Have explained; since Feb. I've under gone 2 hernia operations (right & left Inguinal) the last was just 10 days ago. I believe the hernias were a pre-existing condition aggrivated by carrying a 40-50 pound micro wave oven out of the house. My weakened post-operative condition lead to the rapid failure of the hernias. Lesson learned the hard way is: DON"T LIFT ANYTHING OVER 10 POUNDS until healing is complete.

If not for that one foolish act I would have been 99% back to normal in less than 3 months. Contenience returned to 95%+ in the 10th week, and I assure you that I'm one of the slow ones. Now I am 99%+ dry, and I don't really think about it at all.

I was also scared, prior to the PCa the only surgery I had ever experienced was an appendectomy. Fear of the unknown is the worst because you have no control over what happens the next hour, day, week, or month. Gradually you will get a handle on planning for the surgery, and you'll have answers, make
choices, and set schedules; then the feeling of control returns. The sense of helplessness fades, and a feeling of purpose takes hold. This will be a family achievement.

In the mean time it helps to start an exercise routine (daily walking), and that should include Kegels as well every day. This will help to speed up recovery, and regain contenience.

Please continue to keep us posted,

Glen

Wicket
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 316
   Posted 8/27/2006 12:33 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Glen,

Well I thought I sent you a message, but can't find it so maybe not.

Oh I forgot that you had the hernia operations too. Well you certainly aren't a wimp that's for sure.

I told Curtis about the kegels and he says he's going to start doing them...I also just told him that he won't be able to pick up anything heavy for quite a while. Glad this will be happening over the winter when he won't be tempted to go outside and start a project or something.

He's in good shape already...right now is building his shop in the backyard...he's been hustling because he wants to get it weatherproofed before he has the surgery cause he won't get back to it til spring. When not building he takes walks every day or rides his bike.

He has never been in the hospital for any reason so I'm trying to tell him what to expect since he has no idea.

I'm scared that after the surgery the doctor will come out and say it wasn't all confined to the prostate...that's my biggest fear, but hopefully after talking to the Di Vinci doc I'll feel better about it

Curtis is very calm about it especially since I've been telling about you guys in here and how well you're doing.
Ellen


spinbiscuit
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 818
   Posted 8/27/2006 2:28 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Ellen,

I forgot to ask where the urologist is that will perform the DaVinci procedure?

Is Curtis building a wood working shop in the backyard? If so tell him I once owned a cabinet & display building shop in Virginia.

Glen

Wicket
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 316
   Posted 8/27/2006 2:44 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Glen,

The urologist is in Boise, Idaho...we don't live far from there so it will be convenient. In fact he just opened a new office in Meridian where we live...hope he can operate out of the Meridian hospital. Where are you from?

Yes he's building a wood working shop, but he doesn't enjoy doing the finish work for cabinets that much, but he can if he wants to. He built me a beautiful spice rack with doors and glass in it.
Ellen


spinbiscuit
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 818
   Posted 8/27/2006 4:35 PM (GMT -7)   
Great!

So Curtis has sawdust in his veins too. Wood working is the most satisfying occupation/hobby there is, and it will be a great rehab theropy as well. Tell Curtis my shop was 5000 sq ft., I had 2 rockwell 4 hp. table saws., a 6 ft. band saw, 14x4 inch power planer., 2 forklifts, 5- 8 ft. rolling tables, and more hand held power tools than you can shake a stick at. Sadly we lost the lease on my building, and I sold off all but a very few hand tools.

As for me I was born in Washington DC and grew up in Maryland. I have always known Idaho to have some of the best fishing on the planet. My uncle live there, and took us fishing when we came to visit.

Well Jane is calling me to dinner so I must go for now.

Glen

curtisd
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 1
   Posted 8/27/2006 4:53 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Glen,
This is Curtis, the other half of Wicket. Thanks for your help, I'll get back to you later.
Curtis

Swimom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 1732
   Posted 8/27/2006 9:42 PM (GMT -7)   
Tim, Glen and Ellen,
 
Everyone in this group are always so supportive and informative to one another. That is why stick around and gab so much. I learn so much from the experiences of others. There is a calming effect realizing we are not alone yet it saddens me to know so many have to endure the so much. Of all the groups out there, this one has definately been our saving grace. My deepest gratitude extends to each and every one of you in the group.
 
I always knew what to do for my children. I am confident in my work as a Medic. I am a confident teacher. Those things are second nature to me yet, I am not a confident wife sometimes. Not confident I will always do the right things or say all the right things or be the super support system he sometimes needs. I've found myself going through the steps of grief over and over at times. Until I found a group of people that were all going through the same experiences, the dance of life was making me a pretty dizzy wife! What little information I am able to share is only a fraction of what Paul and I have gotten in return...so thanks!
Swim
 
 
 

Swimom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 1732
   Posted 8/27/2006 9:44 PM (GMT -7)   
Opps, ...see dizzy! meant to post the above to the other post....

daveed
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 172
   Posted 8/28/2006 5:19 AM (GMT -7)   
Wicket. Telling my daughter was a very difficult thing to do. She is 23 just married last August and lives in Virginia. We told the kids over Easter when we were all together. My son had a good idea what was going on because he read all the paperwork we left lying around. My daughter freaked out asking why was I waiting till Nov. She wanted me to have surgery the next day. I explained I had plenty of time etc etc. Just hold your chilren tight after you tell them

Wicket
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 316
   Posted 8/28/2006 7:28 AM (GMT -7)   
Daveed,
 
Wish we could tell the children together, but that's not possible..Our son was just her in July so won't be seeing him for a while.  Our daughter lives near by so we'll tell her when we have a surgery date set I guess. I'm leaving that decision up to Curtis as to when he's ready to tell them.  I'm sure our son will want to fly right down here, but we'll tell him there is no need.
Ellen


Wicket
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 316
   Posted 8/28/2006 7:30 AM (GMT -7)   
Swimmom,
 
I'm glad I found such a supporative group who are willing to answer my questions and glad that Curtis is getting involved too so he can talk to guys who have been through what he's going to be going through. Having you all around makes it much easier on us.
Thanks to you all!!

Ellen


bluebird
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 2542
   Posted 9/3/2006 8:02 AM (GMT -7)   

Follow-up to a posting on “How many wives get depressed”

Thanks GreenAcres for starting a new posting “For Wicket”… I like this idea!

Just getting caught up on all the new entries since I've been away for 3 weeks.....

 

Hi! Ellen,

 

It is “YOU”  that I am concerned about.

You have to be strong for you!!!! 

This is part of “your journey” and you must be in good shape for the surgery J

 

Yes ~ you need to be strong for Curtis but do you realize that this cancer is curable and there is a really good chance that once the prostate is taken out the cancer is gone too.  No one can be 100% assured of being here tomorrow.

 

Live one-day-at-a-time and enjoy each and every moment!!!

 

So give yourself a present J

 

What a GIFT!!!!  One Day At A Time……

Yesterday was history.  

Tomorrow is a mystery. 

Today is a gift. 

That’s why it’s called the Present.

 

I’m not here to preach about surgery… but it seems like a no brainer to me.  Curtis seems to feel the same way.  So hopefully ~ once you have more information about what’s coming at you … you’ll be just fine.  And before you know it … you’ll be helping the next new member through the tough times.  Unfortunately there will be new members but we can help each other along the way… 

 

One saying that another member said has stayed with me… *can’t find who wrote this*

Hand in Hand, Heart to Heart

 

And as Wittler  “Kate” would say…  STAY STRONG

 

This is truly a couple disease and you can be with Curtis the whole way through.  From the 1st consultation to total recovery if this is something the 2 of you want.

 

I was with Buddy from the time he walked in the hospital until the time they went through the doors to surgery.   I was waiting in his room a few hours later as they brought him in from the recovery room.  The time flew…  It was just me and Murphy and that was my decision.  And then it was the 3 of us again.

 

Surgery is always a risk.  So ~ I don’t say this lightly.  You deal with what you have to deal with.  We are…

Do you risk the surgery, possible complications, cancer gone, and have many years together?  Do you risk not having the surgery and know that the end will not be a pleasant one for your loved one or you and the years ahead always knowing that the cancer is there? 

These are very personal decisions and there is no right or wrong answer……

 

The only answer I can share is….I wanted the surgery immediately!!! And so did Buddy.

 

It is now short by 1 day of being 5 months since our surgery.   I look over at him while he’s composing a letter to his family to e-mail as soon as I send this to you.  What a wonderful feeling I have in my heart!!!!  I think it’s time for a GROUP HUG J

 

I truly want to help you through this dark time….  SO remember..

 

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER... and POWER conquers FEAR!!!!!

Too much information at one time can be OVERLOAD and all the information becomes a NIGHTMARE…. So please… take time to step back and regroup.  It will truly benefit you if you do this.

 

Here’s what your next few months will be like.

Appointments, discussions, decisions, and before you know it….. The surgery will be over with J

 

What do you need to do to prepare???  Guess what?  We’ve helped take some of the worry away…. The answers are right in front of you on this forum.  And we will help you!

 

See Wittler’s posting “Shopping List for Surgery”

See my Bluebird’s posting “Our Journey Sharing is Caring” and “Give Yourself A Second Opinion” and Murphy Our Special Helper”

And many more have wonderful helpful hints as to what would be right for you and Curtis.

 

So ~ hang with us and know that we care. 

Hi Curtis J  Glad to see your posting to Glen. 

 

In Friendship,

Lee & Buddy

 


mama bluebird
~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~
Buddy 53 RRP April 3, 2006 PSA 4.6 Gleason 3+3=6 T2a Confined to Prostate
June 29th PSA Less than 0.1 Non-detectable 


bluebird
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 2542
   Posted 9/6/2006 6:44 PM (GMT -7)   

9-6-2006  Responding to 2 different posting from Wicket from other threads… J

Hi Wicket, (Ellen)

I’m thrilled to hear of your decision….. and now have a goal “time” to work toward…  It truly will make things settle down more.  It will still be hectic but the mind will be more settled.  Especially… if you’re getting enough sleep??  Which I hope you are.

I love the line in your posting…” we feel the same way you did...want to get rid of it as soon as possible so we can go on with our life together”.

I can tell from your postings that you are getting stronger.  Yes, we all slip a little along the way but that’s where you grab on to us for that extra help up.  There are a lot of helping hands here…. Just as you are helping other too!  Do you realize that your postings are helping the new lady on the block that just found out they have prostate cancer?  And when they see your growth over time… they too will have hope.

Thank you for asking about Buddy.  He is doing extremely well.  We are 100% PLUS back to normal with careful consideration to the sphincter muscle.  We just traveled over 8000 miles in a car through 19 States and 2 Canadian Provinces…(actually we touched 11 States once, 8 States twice, and 1 State 3 times) and that was a true test to his stamina.  It broke his regular exercise routine and we were a little concerned how his body would react… and he did just fine.  And the stamina would have been an issue with any surgery…. We had a swimming pool at the end of each day so this helped with getting some exercise.

I just asked him for some input about being back to normal??  He said to let you know that the urinary and sleep patterns are much better since surgery.  Before surgery and before being diagnosed with prostate cancer…. He had trouble starting his urine flow … thinking age had something to do with it and really never thought to have it checked.  Also, going to the bathroom 3 and 4 times during the night.  Now….. his urine flow is like it was when he was 16 “LOL”  and sleep is sounder.  He’s back to his wellness program that he established 4 years ago with a little more consideration to the sphincter muscle…. and regular chores are back.  Mentally he is top notch because the healing has been so positive… but I must add that he really did take extra good care of himself.  He went the extra mile to make sure nothing happened.  And of course… mama bluebird was right there chirping him on in his recovery J

The prostate cancer is gone and we will have our regular PSA done.  And we will continue to live each day to the fullest and our life together will continue to be measured ONE-DAY-AT-A-TIME. 

An extra personal note:  Many years ago I let my mom know … that if I died tomorrow…  No one need be sad or mourn my death.  That my life was wonderful and I would be ready for my next journey.   I was able to tell her this when I turned 30 because at this time in my life ~ Buddy and I had been together for 2 years and my life truly felt complete.  So… I guess my honest answer can be… Yes! We are back to normal… Each day is an extra special gift we share.  And that gift is 22 years old.  So ~ I’ll continue to open it each day that the sun rises and will tuck it close in my heart each night that the sun sets and my eyes close.  My last thought at night is giving thanks for a wonderful day today and sending strength to those in need.  

In Friendship,  Lee

mama bluebird
~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~
Buddy 53 RRP April 3, 2006 PSA 4.6 Gleason 3+3=6 T2a Confined to Prostate
June 29th PSA Less than 0.1 Non-detectable 


Wicket
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 316
   Posted 9/6/2006 7:12 PM (GMT -7)   
Bluebird,
Wow you have a wonderful way with words!! 
That's great that he's back to normal in less than 3 months.  I hope Curtis is so lucky.  He's always been in good shape, exercising and taking care of himself so that should help him.  I told him about the kegel exercises and how to tell if he's doing it right, all information I got from this site I might add, and he's been doing them regularly.
I've noticed that Curtis gets up a few times a night to go to the bathroom where he didn't used to have to do that so I imagine that will clear up when the surgery is done and he's "back to normal" too.
Is there anything special I should know about when he comes home from the hospital...I mean I know what I need to buy...I think...and vaguely how to take care of the catheter, but that's about it.
Anyway thanks for being so giving and helpful!!
Ellen
 
 
Curtis, 63,  was diagnosed Aug 21, 2006
T1C
Gleason 3+3=6, 3+4=7
PSA 4.10


bluebird
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 2542
   Posted 9/6/2006 7:29 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Wicket.... (Ellen)

Sometimes I think maybe I'm a little bit too wordy "chirp..chirp..".... and then I think....hey.... "It's coming from my heart so let it flow." It's good therapy for me too!!!

I'll be thinking of you on Monday for your 1st Consultation.

I will also jot down a few things that I experienced that maybe I forgot to put in "OUR JOURNEY"... I'll re-read it and see if anything jumps out that I forgot... I'm sure there is but will make sure to get back with you!!

Hugs to you and Curtis :)

In Friendship, Lee & Buddy
mama bluebird
~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~
Buddy 53 RRP April 3, 2006 PSA 4.6 Gleason 3+3=6 T2a Confined to Prostate
June 29th PSA Less than 0.1 Non-detectable 


M. Kat
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 715
   Posted 9/7/2006 5:39 PM (GMT -7)   
hi Ellen,

I just wanted to let you know what Jeff and I have learned in the past week (since his surgery). the main thing is that everything seems worse in our imaginations before it happens. Jeff had a radical prostatecomy so he has a 6 inch incision in his lower belly. not one time did he have much pain. I kept thinking that he would be miserable, and he never was. the catheter did bother him because it irritated the tip of his penis, but he kept putting neosporin on it and when he could finally sleep on his side, that was better, too, because the sheets wouldn't rub it. the bags were not a big deal because the hospital sent us home with several and we just used one for a few days, threw it away, then put a new one on. Jeff used the large (night) bags every day and only used the leg bag to go to the doctor's today. now that the staples and catheter are out, he's feeling almost "normal" again. he has actually had complete control of his urine so far today. THAT IS A HUGE SURPRISE! we aren't expecting it to stay that way and he will go to bed tonight with an undergarment and pad (his whitey-tighties as we call them). I think it's important to keep a sense of humor during all of this. I just wanted to tell you that nothing I worried about happened. you sound a lot like me in that you think of all the details. I think we drive ourselves crazy sometimes. :) I think the waiting is the worst of it, so schedule that surgery as soon as you can. take care, kat
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