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kw
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 883
   Posted 11/16/2006 3:47 PM (GMT -7)   
RRP on Oct 17.  Cathiter in for 3 weeks due to slow healing.  Has been out for one week today.  Gushing when I stand.  Trying to do kegel's but have question.
 
What do you all fel when trying to do the exercises?
 
Any help would be appreciated.
 
Thanks, KW

dawgfan
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 148
   Posted 11/16/2006 4:50 PM (GMT -7)   
I'll respond since I just completed a biofeedback appointment to determine correct exercising. I had been doing them wrong for months. If you lay down and put one hand on your stomach while you do them, you should not feel any contractions on your belly. You should feel as if you were holding in gas that is trying to escape. The nurse said they do not have to be strong, only enough to hold in gas. Try to hold for 10 long seconds (thousand one, thousand two...), then relax for same time. Do this 10 times. Once in the am and once in the pm she said. You can build on that, but should establish good habit first. Good luck.

Diagnosed 8/24/06
Gleason 6
PSA 3.32
stage T1C
age 48
daVinci on 10/20/06
 
"Never miss a good chance to listen."
 


bluebird
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 2542
   Posted 11/16/2006 6:17 PM (GMT -7)   

Hi kw,

 

Here’s a warm welcome just for you!  I’m glad you joined us.  Hope you’ll keep with us... on your recover/healing progress.

 

Kegels are so important and walking stairs and walking help in urinary control.  We started kegels in February up until surgery day and continued them after the Mr. Hang was releasedJ  and continued doing them to this day 7.5 months post-op. 

 

I hope the following… will help to guide you in the right way to do the exercise… it helped us!

 

Excerpt from Dr. Patrick C. Walsh’s “Guide to Surviving Prostate Cancer

Exercises you can do: Next, every time you urinate, do it standing up.  You can’t practice the following exercises, which strengthen the external sphincter and speed up your recovery of urinary control, while you’re sitting down.  Start your stream, and once it’s in full force, stop the stream by contracting the muscles in our buttocks – not your abdominal muscles, not the muscle “up in front” around the penis.  Tighten your buttocks; imagine you’re trying to hold a quarter between your cheeks.  Hold the urine back for five or ten seconds, and repeat as many times as you can.  Note: Only perform these exercises when you’re urinating; if you keep contracting these muscles throughout the day, you’ll overdo it—the sphincter tires easily—and you’ll end up wetter than you would otherwise.

 

Take care,

In new friendship ~ Lee & Buddy


mama bluebird - Lee & Buddy… from North Carolina

 

v          We invite you to visit our personal thread:  Click Here:  “Our Journey” ~ Sharing is Caring 

April 3, 2006  53 on surgery day

RRP / Radical Retropubic Prostatectomy

PSA 4.6   Gleason  3+3=6    T2a   Confined to Prostate

3rd PSA 08-07-2007 Less than 0.1 Non-Detectable :)

Post Edited (bluebird) : 10/16/2007 1:22:44 PM (GMT-6)


Letty
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 80
   Posted 11/16/2006 6:39 PM (GMT -7)   
We also welcome you to the forum kw,
 
That is a good question!  dawgfan, I'm glad you responded.  We were wondering what exactly the biofeedback told you and how it told you to improve on the kegels.  Thanks for sharing that info.  Between what you were told and what Bluebird posted quoting from Dr. Walshe's book, it sounds like the trick is to use your butt muscles! 
 
It can take time though.  I can't believe how some of you guys are dry so soon after your surgeries, that's great!  However....for some of us, it can take much longer.  My husbands surgery was in July, an open retropubic.  While he's been dry through the night for a few months and while sitting, he is just now getting the upper hand on the stress incontinence.  We have no doubt it's just a matter of time before he'll be completely dry, we have accepted it may take a while longer.  We were also told it may take this long going in. 
 
It just takes longer for some than for others, practice, practice, patience, patience.....!  
Letty,
 
Husband diagnosed May 2006 at age 50.  RRP performed 13 July 06.
PSA 5.7,  Gleason 3+4=7, Staged T2C, Cancer confined to prostate.
His father diagnosed at age 62 and is currently a 13 year survivor!


Tamu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 626
   Posted 11/16/2006 8:17 PM (GMT -7)   
KW,

I had my catheter out on Momday after having it in for 12 days. The same as you I was gushing a lot. I started doing my kegels on Monday as soon as the catheter was out. I was disappointed until today when all of a sudden I have been mostly dry today. The only time that I have felt leaking today is when standing from a sitting position. I think I have found the right muscle to concentrate on and when I tense it while rising I do not leak. I did a lot of kegels the past two days and it was pointed out to me on this forum that doing too many will fatigue the muscle and actually cause you to leak worse so my caution to you as you do the kegels is to follow Dawgfan's advice and do not over do them. Dawgfan's description of how to do them is exactly how I am doing my kegels. My improvement has been rather dramatic in the last 24 hours so you may see something of the same. Good luck!!

Tamu
Diagnosed 7/6/06
1 of 10 core samples, 40%
Stage T1c, Gleason 3+3
Da Vinci on 11/01/06
56 Years Old
Post Op Path
Gleason 3+3
Prostate Confined


shepla
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 102
   Posted 11/17/2006 10:03 AM (GMT -7)   
dangfan, Thank you for the kegel information. I am good at night but getting up from a chair or stress situations I leak. Its been frustrating. I had operation 10/12/06. erections coming along Viagra and sometimes without. But I want to get rid of these pads. Thanksgiving it will be 6 weeks and I would love to have one more thing to be thankful for. Although my cup runneth over this year with thankfulness. I think about how lucky I am and I start to tear up.  Shepla

iggy_pop69
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 11/27/2006 3:51 PM (GMT -7)   
kegel... eyes  
oh jeez.. where do i start... sneezing.. coughing... just getting up from a chair...
misery...   i squeeze my anal spincter so often... it freaking aches ... alot.... 
stopping the front end from leaking (leaking - which happens more times than not) nono ....  
makes me work the anal spincter at the same time and i think all this tightening is the cause of the rectal spincter pain...
and ever since the operation BMs have not been anywhere normal....
.... aint so easy....
my brain cant handled which end to squeeze when....
always afraid something somewhere is going to slip out...
are any or most of you going thru this frustration?   confused
 sorta makes you appreciate how finely tuned God made us... so many working parts.... so easy to malfunction... 
 
 


 gleason score 3+4=7   PSA 4.5  .. 3/10 biopsy sections showed adenocarcinoma.. had radical prostate removal on 10/23/2006

Post Edited (iggy_pop69) : 11/27/2006 6:14:02 PM (GMT-7)


kw
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 883
   Posted 11/27/2006 7:59 PM (GMT -7)   

Hey IGGY,  You might be overworking things.  From all I have seen and done, you should only do about three set's of Kegel's a day.  You can tire the musles and make things work.  The thought I have found that worked best for me was of "trying to draw liquid up your penis like a staw"  Not real hard.......just a easy contraction.  Also, if your not now, start peeing standing up and trying to stop the stream.  Yeah you will have some misses and dribbles for a while.  Start walking too.  Start with 15 - 30 minutes a day build up to what ever you can handle.  It really helps move things along.

  Good Luck


    43
    PSA 5.7 - Discovered during Annual Physical with Family Practice Dr.
    Gleason 7
    Biopsy - 3 of 12 positive (up to 75%) all on left side of prostate
    RRP on Oct, 17 - Nerves on right side saved.
    All Lab's clear.  No Cancer outside prostate
    Cathiter in for 3 weeks due to complications in healing. Removed Nov, 9
    Next Dr. Appt and first Post op PSA on Dec, 11
   


Pete trips again!
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 1899
   Posted 11/28/2006 5:42 AM (GMT -7)   
Guys, it's been a while for me but as I remember, The start / stop exercise with your urin flow really helped me alot. I would start / stop as many times as I could. It had me completely dry in a couple of weeks. Now after 3 1/2 years the only time I leak is when I try to pass gas. I've also noticed that if I have to pass gas while urinating, if I let it out, my urin flow slows or stops. But if I hold it in, the stream stays strong. I don't know if this will help anyone but you never know??
Good Luck and hang in there,
Pete
53 years old, Surgury, Radical Prostatectomy 8/20/03, PSA 6.6, Gleason 3 + 3 = 6, Adenocarcinoma extent (moderate) Stage & Margin:T2NOMX, No Metastases, Organ Confined, bone scan: Neg.  


bluebird
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 2542
   Posted 1/28/2007 12:55 PM (GMT -7)   

Popping this thread back to the top!!!

Several members have found Biker90’s schedule works for them….

 

 

(direct link ~ just click on the title!  Reminder to click on the REFRESH icon once there)

Biker90' Page.... Welcome New Friend :)

 

Biker90's Cancer Summary

 

 

Partial Quote from Jim *Our Biker90

Post-op day 9, past-cath day 3.

Still no floods, no leaks and no drips. I threw out the remaining pads and diapers this morning as a gesture of dedication to continence. Doing Kegels as prescribed by the doc. (5 reps of 5 secs on and 5 secs off, 10 times a day, on the hour from 6 am to 4pm) The time of day is mine not his. Did my daily stretching excercises (for arthritis) and my daily walk. It sure feels good to get back to a routine again.

I drink lots of water because peeing feels so good. This is a side benefit of getting rid of my oversized, lumpy prostrate. I keep discovering small pleasures that I had taken for granted or overlooked entirely.

mama bluebird - Lee & Buddy… from North Carolina

Link to our personal journey…>>>     Our Journey ~ Sharing is Caring 

April 3, 2006  53 on surgery day

RRP / Radical Retropubic Prostatectomy with "wide excision"

PSA 4.6   Gleason  3+3=6    T2a   Confined to Prostate

June 29th ~ PSA Less than 0.1 Non-detectable


bluebird
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 2542
   Posted 2/13/2007 10:07 PM (GMT -7)   

Had this on another thread…. And decided to place it here also…

Everyone is different…. Find what works best for you!  I’ve pulled several postings together…

Hope this helps you!! 

 

 

Kegels!!!  What does your doctor tell you to do? 

Obviously there are different opinions…

 

After understanding that we had to help the new muscle that was going to be in charge of our urinary continence…. We read up on him (sphincter muscle) and found that we can work together!!!

The sphincter muscle is so important to retaining urinary continence.

Before surgery get this guy in shape…. Like any type of exercise… you can over do it.  But since he’s never had to work before you better get him learning the ropes J

 

Before surgery: Our urologist said to work the muscle when urinating… the start, stop, hold, start several times during urination.  This strengthens the muscle.  Also, walking stairs is a really good exercise. 

 

With catheter (Mr. Hang)  don’t do kegels… just sit back and let him do his job.  Helping you to heal internally……  Let him be your friend…

 

After surgery:  We were to still do the kegels when urinating.  This is the only time Buddy does them.  He allows his first urination in the morning to have a nice steady flow!!  Then the rest of the day he does his start / stop / start /stop.  No doubt in our mind that the kegels, walking, and stairs have been instrumental in our continued recovery of urinary continence. 

I will tell you this... the sound of the early morning stream is music to my ears.... and the start / stop / start / stop continues to bring a smile to my face. 

I put together a little bit of information…. I hope it helps you!

 

Partial Quote from Jim *Our Biker90

Post-op day 9, past-cath day 3.

Still no floods, no leaks and no drips. I threw out the remaining pads and diapers this morning as a gesture of dedication to continence. Doing Kegels as prescribed by the doc. (5 reps of 5 secs on and 5 secs off, 10 times a day, on the hour from 6 am to 4pm) The time of day is mine not his. Did my daily stretching excercises (for arthritis) and my daily walk. It sure feels good to get back to a routine again.

I drink lots of water because peeing feels so good. This is a side benefit of getting rid of my oversized, lumpy prostrate. I keep discovering small pleasures that I had taken for granted or overlooked entirely.

EXCERPT:…..On page 247 of Dr. Walsh’s book he states:

Exercises you can do:  Every time you urinate, do it standing up.  You can’t practice the following exercises, which strengthen the external sphincter and speed up your recovery of urinary control, while you’re sitting down.  Start your stream, and once it’s in full force, stop the stream by contracting the muscles in your buttocks--- not your abdominal muscles, not the muscle “up in front” around the penis.  Tighten your buttocks: imagine you’re trying to hold a quarter between your cheeks.  Hold the urine back for 5 or 10 seconds, and repeat as many times as you can.  Note: Only perform these exercises when you’re urinating; if you keep contracting these muscles throughout the day, you’ll overdo it—the sphincter tires easily—and you’ll end up wetter than you would otherwise.

 

Previous paragraphs address… things to speed up your urinary control.  One is not using any artificial devices…… and certain high blood pressure medication relaxes this muscle so you may need to check with your doctor.

 

 

After the catheter is removed….

Excerpt from Dr. Patrick C. Walsh’s “Guide to Surviving Prostate Cancer

     > Until your urinary control has returned to an acceptable level, don’t force fluids. 

 

>Once the catheter is out, you’ve got to slow the pace considerably.  Avoid drinking excessive amounts of fluids, and stay away from caffeine in all forms---coffee, tea, even soft drinks.  Caffeine, especially, is a powerful pharmacological agent that increases the frequency and urgency with which you need to urinate.

 

Also ~ make sure you’re doing your kegels and walking stairs when possible. 

Buddy had a great recovery with urinary continence and we attribute it to no caffeine intake. 

 

Obviously ~ everybody's body is different....... so figuring out what's best ~ is trial and error for sure.  Glad we can pull from all the postings and see what fits in our path.

 

 

Direct Links to….. Kegel information…

 

http://www.ucihs.uci.edu/urology/prostate/patient_inst/curpatient.html

(UC  Irvine Da Vinci surgery) Dr. Thomas Ahlering

 

Excerpt from Dr. T. Ahlering website

Initiate a regular routine of male kegel exercises.  Kegel exercise strengthens the pelvic floor muscle group which are involved in stemming the flow of urine.  By building them up now, you will speed up your return to continence after surgery.  Also, strengthing the pelvic floor muscles improves orgasmic function, and thus will help you preserve and regain potency.  In the interest of continence and potency, it is essential you begin a consistent regiment as soon as possible and continue to maintain it faithfully after surgery.

 

http://www.ucihs.uci.edu/urology/prostate/patient_inst/kegel.html  (Male Kegels)

 

Good Luck!!  Kay  Miyoko / Member


mama bluebird - Lee & Buddy… from North Carolina

J  We invite you to visit our personal thread:  Click Here:  “Our Journey” ~ Sharing is Caring 

April 3, 2006  53 on surgery day

RRP / Radical Retropubic Prostatectomy with "wide excision"

PSA 4.6   Gleason  3+3=6    T2a   Confined to Prostate

2nd PSA 02-06-2007 Less than 0.1 Non-Detectable :)

Post Edited (bluebird) : 4/21/2007 8:41:15 PM (GMT-6)

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