PSA 56.7 Gleason 8

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Lena Gr
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 12/5/2006 1:38 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi everyone!

My dad is 61 years old and was diagnosed with PC 1 week ago. He had a PSA of 56.7 and Gleason 8 and all his biopsy samples are positive for cancer in both lobes of the prostate. Today he is going to have a bone scan. We will get the results tomorrow. His urologist ruled out surgery and gave us a treatment of Casodex and some kind of injection that he will do every 3 months (I can't remember the name right now). I did some research in the internet and what I found isn't very encouraging. They say that this kind of treatment is given to patients with metastatic PC and the survival chances aren't very good. Is there any hope? I am really afraid
thanks
Elena

PS. Please forgive my english its not my native language

aus
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 211
   Posted 12/5/2006 5:00 AM (GMT -7)   

If hormone treatment is used, it often works for some time, but no one knows whether it will be effective for one year or 10 years.

Likestyle changes, diet, exercises, and supplements are improtant as this can help the immune system, and reduce side effects of hormone treatment.

Take a look at the website www.yananow.net which has stories from men who have used various treatments including hormones for various times from months to 15 years. Look under mentors experiences.

Another site is www.clearfeed.com/pfeifer which has a protocol for advanced PC if hormone treatment is no longer effective.

John


jetguy
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Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 741
   Posted 12/5/2006 7:25 PM (GMT -7)   

There was a post here from Gunner about alternative treatments that was very positive, but I can't find it.  I'll look again and if I find it, I'll send it to the top.

Regards,

Bill


Gleason 3+3=6, T1c, one core in twelve, another pre-cancerous.
62 years old and good health.  Married 37 years.  To same woman!


Rock50
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 264
   Posted 12/5/2006 9:33 PM (GMT -7)   
Lena,

Numbers are just indicators and while you dads PSA is higher than mine our Gleason scores are the same. They were sure mine had spread and in reality it had not. Let me know how the bone scan comes out. My biopsy showed over 80% in both lobes, agin mine had not spread. Lets see what the bone scan shows. Will add dad to my prayers

Lena Gr
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 12/5/2006 11:42 PM (GMT -7)   
Thank you all!
As soon as I have the results I will let you know!

whispers
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 44
   Posted 12/6/2006 6:27 AM (GMT -7)   
Elena-
I agree with the others-the first step is to find out if and where the cancer has spread. The bone scan is the first step, and should be followed with a Pet Scan and Cat Scan-that way your dad is checked from head to toe. Is he seeing an urologist or an oncologist?

I am in the same boat as you so I understand how you feel. My precious Daddy-also 61-has PC. He was diagnosed last year. When we went in to remove his prostate, the cancer had already spread to his lymph nodes. His PSA at that point had shot up to 64. The urologist removed his LN's-and left the prostate in-that was Nov 05. IN Dec 05-my dad had the castration surgery-we were told that would kill the cancer off. The cancer went down to a .04 in the spring. We were so happy thinking we had gotten it all. At his next check up-Sep 06-his PSA had shot back up to 8.1. A few weeks ago-it was 15.88. We reran all the scans-the cancer is now in the prostate and in the lymph nodes between the kidneys. We have found an oncologist(I highly recommend this)that we love and trust now and we go to a regular cancer center. The cancer centers I have found to be more compassionate and helpful-they give me hope and help keep me encouraged. My dad is now enrolled in a clinical study-called Ascent 2. He does chemo and a high dose of Vit D with it. We have only had 2 treatments so far-just getting started. We meet with our doctor today to get a PSA score and a consultation.

Stay strong-and heathy-don't forget to take care of yourself thru this-very important. Stay positive. Go to www.yananow.net...I found a lot of encouragement there (and here). I found the medical reads to be more not encouraging-and the real life stories to be more encouraging, so I try to read things that are positive. I print these out for my Dad also. I go to all my Dad's doctor visits and treatments. I didn't last year-the first time around-and now wish I had as we aren't real sure the oncologist did all he could do. Very important also-try to get your dad eating healthy-fruit, veggies, fish, pomegranite juice. My dad is doing a low fat diet-no read meat-very little meat period. It has been proven that animal fats fuel cancer. Also-get him to exercise. Boost is great to keep his immune up.

Keep us posted on your dad's journey and test results. If you would like to email me directly-lisasupscale@earthlink.net-I would be more than happy to talk with you more and we can help each other thru this :)
And the most important thing I do is pray. God is the most powerful healer. He can also give you and your family strength and guidance :)

Take Care-I will add your dad and your family to my prayers.
Lisa

lawink
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 621
   Posted 12/6/2006 7:30 AM (GMT -7)   
Lisa - Such a heartfelt message!  Our prayers go with you as you go to today's appointment . . please let us all know how you make out!
;o)

Jim-N1BRP
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 165
   Posted 12/6/2006 7:36 AM (GMT -7)   
Lisa, I'll keep your dad in my prayers

Lena Gr
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 12/7/2006 12:38 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi again

Lisa thank you very much for your message (and all you guys too). For the time being my dad is seeing an urologist but I'm already asking around for an oncologist specialized in PC.
We still don't know the results of the bone scan because the doctor had some kind of problem and did not go to work yesterday so we are to take them today around noon. He is also having a CT today and tomorrow we are going to see his doctor.
I wish that your dad will get over this I wish the same thing for all the people here. My thoughts are with you all!
Good luck with your appointment today!

Thank you all
Elena

whispers
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 44
   Posted 12/7/2006 6:20 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Elena-
I hope your dads test come back clear today. Sometimes the waiting is the hardest part. If his cancer has spread, unless you are totally comfortable with your urologist, I would definitely try to find a specialized cancer center and oncologist. Our oncologist is so wonderful. I can feel his compassion. He is also a Christian and I feel that too. He answers all our questions..does not rush us..makes sure we understand things and gives us hope. I think it is very important to find a doctor for your Dad that has HOPE...that way you are fighting the cancer togther.
Our day yesterday went well. My dad had his PSA blood drawn but we will not know the results till next Friday. The doctor said that we may not see a decrease yet-it may be too soon-as my dad has only had two chemo treatments. But..even if it just stays the same, instead of climbing, I will feel thankful. I just want it to stop growing and spreading. My dad looks and feels great right now...having very little effects from the chemo so far. Our doctor said that he felt very good about us doing the Clinical Study-that he felt we are doing the right thing. I also asked him about the Pomegranate juice. I found on the internet that they are in Phase 3 of testing it for prostate cancer and are having great results. Our doctor recommends it too. My dad actually put a couple of pounds back on-he is eating very healthy but had lost 8 pounds really quickly-so I am glad he gained a couple back instead of losing more. It is important to keep his strength up.
After our doctor appointment, my dad and I went to the grocery store together. I bought fresh fish-salmon and catfish. My daddy bought his Pom juice. I then went and spent several hours with him at his house. My mom cooked up a bunch of veggies...I baked our fish. We had a great dinner and time together. I left feeling very blessed.
Please keep in touch with us about your dads results. This board is wonderful. Your family is in my thoughts and prayers.
Lisa

2busymom
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 118
   Posted 12/7/2006 9:44 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Elena,

Here is the post from Gunner that Bill referred to. He had a very serious and discouraging prognosis years ago and has found ways to improve his health. Hope this is helpful.


bec

I am a P/C survivor, so far. PSA of 250 in 1989; diagnosis was "terminal and untreatable" with multiple bone mets. Prognosis death in 6 months. Since there was nothing here permitted by the FDA and my father had died of P/C after relying on Mexican remedies, I went to Europe. It's a long story but to cut to the chase there is a lot of information and cutting edge therapies available today in the USA but not all of it available through conventional MDs who are stuck on "cut, burn and poison" (surgery, radiation and chemo) and some only through being a guinea pig in a Trial. I have survived 5 trials, two in Germany and three in the U.S. Hear this: ALL cancer victims are seriously D deficient. It is called vitamin D but in reality it is a hormone with many applications in your body. It comes to you naturally, from sunlight (UV)on your exposed skin. This is why there is much more P/C in northern hemisphere countries and among our black brothers; not enough sun exposure. I currently take (by prescription) 50,000 international units of "vitamin" D3 every morning. That's right, fifty thousand. It fits in one small, white capsule. Also, I take 15 grams per day of vitamin C, orally, and once a week a bolus of vitamin C intravenously. I spread out the oral C during the day, 1000 or 2000 milligrams at a time to keep the plasma level high enough to be lethal to the remaining tumour cells. I do all the other non-controversial therapeutic things such as lots of fish oil for Omega 3, 8 oz. per day of pomegranate juice (as an anti inflamataory; P/C is very inflammatory), lots of fresh vegetables, raw if you can, fresh fruit, some fish but no red meat, and it's great that your Dad exercises, encourage him to keep it up. I am 77 and work 6 days a week. I live near mountains and hike every chance I get. One more point, it is now a proven fact that STRESS HORMONES exaccerbate any form of cancer. Besides a loving family I keep my stress level under control with lots of prayer. Whether you are a Christian or not, it is a historical fact that Jesus was the greatest healer that ever walked the face of the earth; your Dad couldn't find better company in his walk for life. Good Luck. The Gunner
husband Jeff 45 years old, diagnosed 8/25/06
PSA 2.1, 2 of 12 samples at 3% & 4%, involving 1 side of prostate
Gleason 3+3=6 in both samples
laparoscopic radical prost. 10/17/06
cancer in both sides of prostate, positive in one area of margin
first PSA in 1/2007


jetguy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 741
   Posted 12/7/2006 4:08 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks Bec.

Regards,

Bill
Gleason 3+3=6, T1c, one core in twelve, another pre-cancerous.
62 years old and good health.  Married 37 years.  To same woman!


Lena Gr
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 12/7/2006 11:41 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi all

News not so good. The bone scan shows 2 suspicious spots, one in the ilium and one in the 3rd lumbar. Still we have no clear view and most tests are to be run. I believe that the lumbar spot is some kind of injury but the illium spot could be metastases. The results of the CT weren't great either. Two lymph nodes appear to be pathological big, especially one has a diameter of 2cm. Anyway we are going to see his urologist in a few hours and will see what he has to say about all this mess

2busymom
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 118
   Posted 12/8/2006 6:11 AM (GMT -7)   
Elena - we are praying. Please let us know how the appt. went.

bec
husband Jeff 45 years old, diagnosed 8/25/06
PSA 2.1, 2 of 12 samples at 3% & 4%, involving 1 side of prostate
Gleason 3+3=6 in both samples
laparoscopic radical prost. 10/17/06
cancer in both sides of prostate, positive in one area of margin
first PSA in 1/2007


whispers
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 44
   Posted 12/8/2006 6:24 AM (GMT -7)   
Elena-
Many times what appears to be cancer in the bones, is something as simple as arthritis....let's hope and pray that is the case. Is the cancer in the lymph nodes in the lymph nodes directly above the prostate or further into the body? Lymph nodes are a filter-and are one of the best places to have cancer if you have to have it-from what I was told anyway. Please let us know what the doctor says today. I am praying for your family and thinking about you.
God bless-
Lisa

Lena Gr
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 12/10/2006 11:52 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi again

We went to the urologist on Friday. He looked at the CT and said that the results aren't very good. That the treatment he had already gave us is the fit one and that he would see us again in three months ... and that was all! I asked him what my dad should eat because of what I have read here and in other sites. He said that it is a bit late to take care of his diet now and that it didn't really matter because it only helps to prevent PC. I asked him if the spots on the bone scan were metastases or not he said that although we aren't completely sure because of the high PSA and the lymph nodes we will assume they are metastases since the treatment would be the same anyway. I also asked him if we were to measure my dad's PSA monthly and he said that there was no need for that and that we would measure it in three months time. Just before we left he asked me back in order to note some data for his files (age, address ect) and I noticed that he noted T3N0M1. I asked a friend of mine who is a doctor why N0 since there were 2 problematic lymph nodes and he told me that because there is only two of the and because we aren't completely sure about bone metastase instead of noting N1/2 and M1/2 he preferred N0M1. What do you guys think? My dad likes him but I think he is reluctant to do anything and he prefers to just sit and wait to see what happens. I'm trying to arrange an appointment with another doctor who is supposed to be a top in this subject. Other than that my dad had his first hormone injection yesterday. What drives me crazy is that when you see him he appears completely healthy.
One last thing I can't find pomegranate juice in the super markets. Where is it sold? Perhaps we don't have it here in Greece at all, although we have pomegranates.

whispers
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 44
   Posted 12/11/2006 6:30 AM (GMT -7)   
Elena-
Thank you for the update. I am so sorry that you are going thru this. I know how afraid you must be. Our urologist sounded a lot like the doctor you are using. Do not stay with him. You really need an oncologist-they specialize in cancer. The urologists- that I have seen anyway- only treat early PC and don't really know what to do with advanced PC.
Go to www.yananow.net. Hit the button that says Troop C and find the story about Ric Masterson. He is like our dads-had mets advanced PC-he tells a very detailed story of his life. He has had advanced PC for 8 years and still going strong. He says that Advanced PC is uncurable, but does NOT have to be terminal. He says we are the captain of our own ship and have to take charge with the doctors. He has had numerous chemo treatments. I think I told you my dad is doing the Taxotere Chemo. My honest opinion-but I am no expert-is that your dad would benefit from Chemo. It will get the cancer that has spread stopped-and slow his PSA way down. You should then be able to control it with hormone therapy, and possibly more chemo later. Read Ric's story-he tells what he is doing and it is very encouraging.
The doctor is wrong that diet does not help. Get your dad eating veggies, fruits, fish..stay away from red meat. The Pom juice is found in the refrigerated section of the grocery store. Check a whole food or better grocery store-they should have it. Have him drink 8 ounces a day. Our oncologist said last week it is helpful. They are on Phase 3 of a Clinical Study with it right now-started April 2006.
I am thinking of you and pray that you will find an awesome doctor to help you. I wouldn't stop till I did. You sound a lot like me-I love my dad beyond belief too and am very involved with his PC journey. Take care and keep us posted. Remember-never ever give up! Stay strong and hopeful. Let me know if I can help in any way.
Your friend-
Lisa

Swimom
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Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 1732
   Posted 12/11/2006 8:07 AM (GMT -7)   
Lena,

Not such good news is an understatement. I am so sorry.

His (Dad's) Dr. is doing what he should if he's put him on antiandrogens/hormone treatment. It is a wait and see game, for the short term at least. No Dr. in his right mind would start a man with minor mets on chemo if blocking hormones willl work. PCa very often responds well to antiandrogens for years. I see where his Doc is going.

One thing Doc is a goof about and that's diet. NO, you can't prevent cancer, he's aready got it. But, his general health is important most especially if he's been put on Lupron or whatever. Staying strong is the key now. A good diet filled with the wonderful foods of Greece minus a portion of the fat from meats is perfect. Protien is important but animal fat should be kept to a reasonable amount. Greeks already love their fish, fruits, vegies and good quality oils.

PCa patients who are on antiandrogens have a real risk of becoming diabetic so be really concerned about his diet and excersise. Excersise is his friend. It will help keep his bones strong and help keep muscle form turning to especially, belly fat. I've heard many men say the only thing that keeps them moving is to keep moving...in otherwords, excersise. Include some weight bearing excersise. In a few months you'll know how well he's responding to the drugs. Then worry about what's next.

God Speed, swim

whispers
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 44
   Posted 12/11/2006 11:09 AM (GMT -7)   
I wanted to clarify that my dad is doing Chemo because Hormone Treatment did not work for us. I think swim is correct in saying that chemo is not prescribed first-sorry-not trying to misguide you in any way. I was only thinking that since his PSA was high, and the cancer was outside of the prostate that it might help but hormone therapy is usually the next step. Our doctor told us that chemo was the only treatment for us now because the cancer has spread and does no longer need the testostrone to grow and live. Your dad's situation is a little different as he has not had surgery.
Also-I wasn't trying to say your doctor was not good. I only meant that you didn't seem 100% sure of him-which I would then at least get a second opinion. Also-his lack of urgancy-"see you in 3 months"-bothered me, in case the hormone treatment does not work. Our urologist was like that and I feel like he did my dad a disgrace. Just hate to see anyone else go thru what we have. The cancer centers show more urgancy, which is important with a rising PSA.
This stuff is all so confusing. We can only try to learn from each other's experiences. No two cases are alike, and no two people react to treatment the same, it seems.
Take care-
Lisa

Lena Gr
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 12/14/2006 1:11 AM (GMT -7)   
Lisa and Swim thank you both
We visited 2 more doctors this week. We liked the one we saw yesterday better. He agreed with the given treatment and he also proposed to start making energies for radiation treatment as well, because it might take months to arrange an appointment for it, since only 4 hospitals have the specific machine he suggested. It will be a 2 month treatment (about 32 sessions every second day). I liked this doctor because he seemed to have all the time of the world for us although I knew he had an engagement and he was in a hurry. He also answered all my questions no matter how stupid they were. He is a university doctor and I guess that means that he follows the new developments closer. He told us that it is better to follow an intermittent hormone therapy because it is believed to have better results in the long term. That means that as soon as my dad's PSA drops he is going to continue with casodex only. He also suggested reducing red meat to a minimum. Any way that's my news. The good thing is my dad's moral is high.
Lisa what about your dad's PSA results? Have you got them? I really hope it has dropped!
Once more thank you all for your support, it means a lot to me!

Elena

Lena Gr
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 12/14/2006 1:17 AM (GMT -7)   
Lisa
I've just read your post. I'm so happy for your dad!!!

whispers
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 44
   Posted 12/14/2006 4:24 AM (GMT -7)   
Thanks Elena!! We are far from out of the woods, but just knowing that the cancer is slowing is a blessing and encouragement. We see the doctor tomorrow-can't wait to ask more questions. Also he will probably get his PSA taken again-I am going to request it-since this is a sister center so that we have a score from two different places. My dad also starts round 2 of chemo tomorrow.
I am so happy that you got a second opinion and that you feel comfortable with this doctor. That is so important when you feel like you can trust them. I know it took a weight off my shoulders when we found ours. I wish your dad the best with his treatments and hope they work well and quickly for him. That is great that his moral is strong and high-that is half the battle. Take care and please keep us posted with his progress.

jetguy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 741
   Posted 12/14/2006 8:54 AM (GMT -7)   
Hello Lena,

It sounds promising now for your dad - I hope things improve.

Where in Greece do you live? We used to live in Ano Voula. (I have no idea if I spelled that correctly.)

Regards,

Bill
Gleason 3+3=6, T1c, one core in twelve, another pre-cancerous.
62 years old and good health.  Married 37 years.  To same woman!


Swimom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 1732
   Posted 12/14/2006 10:14 AM (GMT -7)   
Lena,

Don't quit red meat. A time or two a week is important too. Think about the 70's hype suggesting people quit eating red meat and load up on carbs. Those poor folks are today's dementia patients. The rate of dementia and diabetes has increased dramatically since the 70's...thanks to our "healthy eating." Lean red meat can and does save brain cells. When eaten in normal amounts, the B vitiman content is one of the most useful forms there is.
As we age for some reason the digestion says no, to many of the fresh vegies. We also take our Doc's advise and quit eating red meat....for the heart of course! Great....now our intakeof B vitimans is almost nil! We'll all die with good hearts and no brains!

Then there's the other big reason to give a man a little red meat. When ever my hubby is being a real grump I think about the last time he had a good hunk of red meat. If its been a week or more and he's real grumpy, I throw a steak at him and run!

Glad your Dad is on the right track Lena. swim

Lena Gr
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 19
   Posted Yesterday 1:48 PM (GMT -7)   
Bill hi
Yes you spelled it right! I also live in Athens but completely opposite to where you lived. I live in Maroussi near the Olympic Stadium where the 2004 Olympics took place.

Swim
thanks for the advice. My dad is a meat lover so you can be certain that he will eat some red meat every week even if he has to "steal" it :-).
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