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Posted 1/26/2007 2:07 PM (GMT -7)
I was invited to attend a Man to Man Prostate Cancer Support Group meeting last night. My surgeon was the guest speaker and I suppose the firm invited all of his local patients.

I sat next to a gentleman who was 58 years old and recently diagnosed. He was attending the meeting to gain information about possible treatments. During the course of our discussions a third man joined in and told of his misadventures with incontinence that has plagued him for 20 years. I said I'd rather have incontinence than push up daisies to which the 58 year old said he'd take the opposite. It threw me because my goal at 48 years old is to get rid of the cancer regardless of the side effects. This slightly older man voiced serious concern about any changes to his quality of life.

I suppose it's a matter of perspective, but I also think that the actuary tables still show most American men have a life expectancy to the early 70's. People always surprise me.

 

Diagnosed 8/24/06

Gleason 6

PSA 3.32

stage T1C

age 48

daVinci on 10/20/06

"Never miss a good chance to listen."

Posted 1/26/2007 6:03 PM (GMT -7)
Hi ~ Dawgfan,   That’s why this forum is so important….   Letting others know what’s out there and what to expect.   Each journey is the same but different in many ways.   Each having to make the decision that’s best for them.   Yes ~ our feeling is the same as you!!!   Being #1 cancer free regardless of the side effects.   Knowing in our hearts that we could and would deal with #2 & #3 together!!   I’m sure many will say it’s easy to sit here and say this after having little incontinence… but again… that was our mental position at the time of our decision to have RRP with wide excision and to work very hard to regain urinary control.   Our work ethic has paid off and we truly feel good with our decision…   Thank you for sharing this information.   Hopefully ~ you shared this site with the people there.   Just reading the Threads from way back ~ to now… says it all!!!!!   Take care, In Friendship ~Lee & Buddy mama bluebird - Lee & Buddy… from North Carolina Link to our personal journey…>>>      Our Journey ~ Sharing is Caring   April 3, 2006  53 on surgery day RRP / Radical Retropubic Prostatectomy with "wide excision" PSA 4.6   Gleason  3+3=6    T2a   Confined to Prostate June 29th ~ PSA Less than 0.1 Non-detectable
Posted 1/26/2007 6:55 PM (GMT -7)
I feel the same, I'd rather be incontinent, impotent and unable to have erections but cancer free than dead. Especially having a 2 year old daughter.
____________________

Prostate cancer diagnosed:  May 15, 2006 (age 40)

Gleason score:  3+3=6

daVinci radical prostatectomy:  July 25, 2006

size of tumor:  approx 1.1 inches

post-surgery Gleason score:  3+4=7

negative margins from surgery

number of pads/day at 3 months after surgery:  3 to 5

number of pads/day at 4 months after surgery:  1 to 2

first post-surgery PSA:  0

ongoing post-surgery treatment:  Cialis every other day, Viagra "on-demand", ErecAid pump daily

Posted 1/26/2007 10:25 PM (GMT -7)
I watched my dad die from metastisized prostate cancer. It took him a year and a half. He refused to go to the doc until he couldn't pee anymore then refused treatment because of the side effects of hormones and radiation that could have slowed it down. It was his choice. He was 81 and my mom had died three years prior. I swore that I would never go like that and I won't. As soon as I was diagnosed I knew in my heart that surgery was the only way to go, no matter how old I was and I will never regret that decision. No side effects could ever be worse than dying like that.

Jim
Age 72. Diagnosed 11/03/06. PSA 7.05. Stage T2B Gleason 3+3.

RRP 12/7/06. Nerves and nodes okay.

Pathological stage: T2B. Gleason 3+4. Cancer confined to prostate.

PSA on 1/3/07 - 0.04.  Next PSA on 4/4/07.

            "Cancer feeds on fear, starve it to death!"

Posted 1/27/2007 2:24 AM (GMT -7)

Hi dawgfan,

I feel sorry for the 58 year old gentleman that has been suffering for 20 years. Being incontinent for that long must be terribly depressing especially when he sees all the other men that have recovered so well. I guess after awhile he started saying why did it have to be me? Did you happen to ask if he has sought out futher treatment?

We were blessed to have had such advanced treatments available to us. Just 5 years ago the daVinci procedure was so new virtually no one had heard of it. Soon HIFU will be certified. Maybe the next generation of PCa patients won't even need surgery. I'm 61 years old, and constantly amazed by the advances in medical technology. Although I hadn't planned to be using so much of it all at once. Hopefully this year I'll be just an observer.

Glen

Diagnosed at age 60

PSA went from 2.2 to 3.8 in 14 months

2 of 14 cores positive at 10%

Gleason 6(3+3), negative DRE, neg. boundaries

DaVinci surgery on 02/23/06

 

Posted 1/27/2007 4:12 AM (GMT -7)
I'm with Jim.
My Dad died from pc when he was 52, I can't think of a worse way to go. I remember about 4 months before he died I was home from college for Chrismas break. My Dad was lying on the couch and asked me to help him get up. I reached down and tried to lift him with my hands under his upper arms. I couldn't beleive how light he was, this was my Big Dad, my hero, a big tough 6' Italian American man who never took any crap from anyone in his life. As I started lifting, I heard a loud pop, and he sceamed in pain. I had unintencially broken his hip! Then My Mom came in the room and said we had to take him to the hospital. My Dad refused to go in an ambliance so I had to carry him out to the car. No 20 year old boy should ever have to pick up carry his Father who was in agony from his bones which were eaten away from the cancer. I can't immagine the strength it took for him not to cry when he was in my arms let alone the humiliation of being carried by his son. . Like I said, I agree with Jim! Nothing could be worse than that. I think the guy who had qualms about side effects Dawg was talking about should pay a little visit to a cancer ward at the closest hospital and talk to some of the non-survivers there!
Just my opinion!
Your friend Pete
53 years old, Surgury, Radical Prostatectomy 8/20/03, PSA 6.6, Gleason 3 + 3 = 6, Adenocarcinoma extent (moderate) Stage & Margin:T2NOMX, No Metastases, Organ Confined, bone scan: Neg.  

Posted 1/27/2007 6:38 AM (GMT -7)

I agree with you, Pete.  Sometimes the way we go is worse than the fact that we die.  The final outcome is the same for all of us, but prostate cancer is likely not the way we would choose.  If we have a choice, that is.  I considered doing nothing, but realized that in this case I very likely do have a choice, so it's time to get going and do some positive things.  Everyone else here seems to be the same. 

Regards,

Bill 

Gleason 3+3=6, T1c, one core in twelve, another pre-cancerous.

62 years old and good health.  Married 37 years.  To same woman!

Posted 1/27/2007 10:36 AM (GMT -7)
To me the guy must really had a dull life if the fear of the complications of treating PC would drive him to accept a horrible death. Family, friends, and faith are such huge reasons to live and give back to those that are in need such as all of us are doing on this forum. While we do not undersatnd the fellow mentioned I think we all know how we felt knowing that life as we knew it was going away and would be different. What we all need to do is say a prayer for the guy as he certainly needs sprirtual intervention in his life.

Tamu
Diagnosed 7/6/06

1 of 10 core samples, 40%

Stage T1c, Gleason 3+3

Da Vinci on 11/01/06

Catheter out on 11/13/06

56 Years Old

Post Op Path

Gleason 3+3

Approx. 5% of prostate involved

Prostate Confined, margins clear

Undetectable PSA on 12/18/06

No more pads as of 1/13/07

Posted 1/27/2007 1:37 PM (GMT -7)
The logical side of my brain agrees with what everyone has said here. The emotional side of my brain says that I too would be very bitter if I had been incontinent for 20 years. This guy was probably mostly just blowing off steam. Most likely he would chose life over continence if it really came down to that. Hopefully his remarks weren't too much of a downer for the others at this meeting.

This is good advice for me to remember when I am unhappy about my circumstances and too vocal on this forum. If I have ever made anyone else feel upset or dejected by anything that I have said on this forum, I apologize. I guess that there is a fine line between blowing off steam and upsetting others.

Ben
DIAGNOSIS: 09/25/06. Age 49. PSA 4.6. PSA free 2%. Clinical pathology: Gleason 10. Stage T2a.           

SURGERY: 11/08/06. RP at Johns Hopkins. Surgical pathology Gleason 10. Stage T3a (positive margins.) Negative seminal vesicles, lymph nodes, and bone scan.

POST OP: 12/15/06: First post op PSA was 0.00.

Posted 1/27/2007 4:19 PM (GMT -7)
Ben, in my opinion you have never been too vocal on this forum. (I don't know what your wife thinks!) Your posts are thoughtful and informative and we need them. As I said once before, none of this is required reading.

Regards,

Bill
Gleason 3+3=6, T1c, one core in twelve, another pre-cancerous.

62 years old and good health.  Married 37 years.  To same woman!

Posted 1/27/2007 5:28 PM (GMT -7)
Thanks Bill,

I do on occassion use this forum to let my frustrations out. It really does help just to shout out my frustration at times.

Ben
DIAGNOSIS: 09/25/06. Age 49. PSA 4.6. PSA free 2%. Clinical pathology: Gleason 10. Stage T2a.           

SURGERY: 11/08/06. RP at Johns Hopkins. Surgical pathology Gleason 10. Stage T3a (positive margins.) Negative seminal vesicles, lymph nodes, and bone scan.

POST OP: 12/15/06: First post op PSA was 0.00.

Posted 1/27/2007 5:46 PM (GMT -7)
Me too, Ben. Me too. I say things here that I say to no other person.

Bill
Gleason 3+3=6, T1c, one core in twelve, another pre-cancerous.

62 years old and good health.  Married 37 years.  To same woman!

Posted 1/27/2007 9:23 PM (GMT -7)
Hi Dawgfan and all who responded

Keep in mind that all of the treatments for prostate cancer today are much more sophisticated and safer than 5, 10, 15 and 20 years ago. Statistics have shown that most of of the treatments, if performed by the top doctors in their field, can produce almost comparable results in terms of a potential cure at an earlier stage of cancer. It is the potential side effects of each treatment that have to be weighed carefully in making a final decision and one's age is also critical in deciding on a treatment. It is obvious that the majority of younger guys want the prostate out by surgery. I can readily understand this and would probably do the same thing. In the end analysis, you have to do what you feel is right in your heart and that is what i am doing. Guys my age have different considerations for the most part. If we can select a treatment which offers excellent promise without having to take a big risk of unpleasant side effects, it is more likely that we will go that way. I certainly agree that none of us wants to die a horrible death of PC in its last stages when it destroys the bones and the pain becomes brutal. Hearing stories of men dying that way is heart breaking. Peace!

Dave
68, Biopsy 9/27/06, Stage T1c, PSA 7.1, Gleason 6 [less than 5% in two areas], Gleason 7 (3+4) [less than 20% in one area], negative DRE, bone scan and MRI. Starting proton radiation therapy 2/07.

Posted 1/28/2007 12:06 PM (GMT -7)
Sorry Guys,
I just read back what I wrote above on Friday. I shouln't have gone into so much detail, I know most of you have probably been in simmilar sittuations and didn't need to be reminded of the potencial outcome of our illness. I'll try to keep my personal history concerning PC & death to my self from now on! I was tired and not thinking, as ussual!
Your friend,
Pete
53 years old, Surgury, Radical Prostatectomy 8/20/03, PSA 6.6, Gleason 3 + 3 = 6, Adenocarcinoma extent (moderate) Stage & Margin:T2NOMX, No Metastases, Organ Confined, bone scan: Neg.  

Posted 1/28/2007 12:15 PM (GMT -7)
Hey Pete,

We gotta tell it like it is! Sugar coating the effect of this disease won't help anybody. Besides, reading these posts is optional....

Jim
Age 72. Diagnosed 11/03/06. PSA 7.05. Stage T2B Gleason 3+3.

RRP 12/7/06. Nerves and nodes okay.

Pathological stage: T2B. Gleason 3+4. Cancer confined to prostate.

PSA on 1/3/07 - 0.04.  Next PSA on 4/4/07.

            "Squeeze before you sneeze!"

Posted 1/28/2007 4:53 PM (GMT -7)
I'd like to clarify what may be a misunderstanding. The 58 year old was recently diagnosed and has not had any treatment. An older gentleman is the one who has been incontinent for 20+ years. He has a good sense of humor regarding his problem. He had multiple treatments including readiation and surgery many years ago and as someone mentioned above, the success rates were not as good as today. My concern the 58 year old who seems to prefer no treatment at all due to possible side effects.

At 48, with an 8 year old daughter that is nothing less than a gift from above, I would rather be incontinent and suffer from ED for the rest of my days than not take the most active stance against the cancer. I have too much to live for. Isn't it a shame we need to be reminded of such a fact? I've chosen to wear a wrist band as a constant reminder.

Best to all of you.
Diagnosed 8/24/06

Gleason 6

PSA 3.32

stage T1C

age 48

daVinci on 10/20/06

"Never miss a good chance to listen."

Posted 1/28/2007 5:44 PM (GMT -7)

dawgfan said...
I have too much to live for. Isn't it a shame we need to be reminded of such a fact? I've chosen to wear a wrist band as a constant reminder.

Best to all of you.

Ditto.  I wear two armbands, in fact - my light blue prostatecancerfoundation.org band, and my goldenrod Livestrong (Lance Armstrong's organization) band.  Works out well, as blue and gold are the colors of my alma mater (UCLA)!
____________________

Prostate cancer diagnosed:  May 15, 2006 (age 40)

Gleason score:  3+3=6

daVinci radical prostatectomy:  July 25, 2006

size of tumor:  approx 1.1 inches

post-surgery Gleason score:  3+4=7; negative margins from surgery

number of pads/day at 3 months after surgery:  3 to 5

number of pads/day at 4 months after surgery:  1 to 2

first post-surgery PSA:  0

ongoing post-surgery treatment:  Cialis every other day, Viagra "on-demand", ErecAid pump daily Cialis every other day, ErecAid pump twice daily (when I can manage it)

Posted 1/28/2007 7:11 PM (GMT -7)
hey guys, my father is somewhat bitter because he had RRP surgery 10 years ago and has been incontinent and impotent since then. the incontinence has actually gotten worse over the years, my dad said he did kegels for about 2 years and then decided to stop doing them because they didn't seem to work. I don't think my parents were very creative with their sex lives so they haven't had one for 10 years. I can understand the older man's slight bitterness because my parents are that way. they've had a very hard time adjusting to that change, but they made it through and are now happy in life.

it really hit me reading these posts of how young some of you are, with very young children. my heart swells for all of you.

Pete, don't ever feel you stepped over a line...so far you haven't...you just share what's in your heart...and it's a pretty big one!

God bless all of you, kat
Husband Jeff 56 years old diagnosed July 27, 2006
PSA 6.5, 2 positive areas in biopsy, Gleason 3+3=6
Radical Retropubic Prostatectomy August 30, 2006
pathology report - all clear - cancer gone
1st post-surgery PSA test 0.1, 2nd post-surgery PSA test 0.1
no more pads Oct 12, 2006
first "real" erection with use of pump 12/16/06

Posted 1/28/2007 8:36 PM (GMT -7)

Yes you should have gone into such detail, Pete.  It was the truth, it was fact, and it's what may face all of us.  Especially dumb craps like myself who think I should do nothing.  Your post was important to me and reinforced my decision to get with the program and get well.

Dawgfan, I feel the same about your post.  Each time one of you tells the truth as you see it the rest of us benefit. None of this is required reading.

You Guy are Great!

Bill

Gleason 3+3=6, T1c, one core in twelve, another pre-cancerous.

62 years old and good health.  Married 37 years.  To same woman!

Posted 1/29/2007 8:46 AM (GMT -7)

Raheeb said...

dawgfan said...
I have too much to live for. Isn't it a shame we need to be reminded of such a fact? I've chosen to wear a wrist band as a constant reminder.

Best to all of you.

Ditto.  I wear two armbands, in fact - my light blue prostatecancerfoundation.org band, and my goldenrod Livestrong (Lance Armstrong's organization) band.  Works out well, as blue and gold are the colors of my alma mater (UCLA)!

Raheeb, I used to wear two, the Livestrong and a blue PC band. I've broken 2 of the blue ones, so I gave up on them. The yellow is still enough of a reminder.

PS - My alma mater is UGA, but red and black bands would really confuse people!

Diagnosed 8/24/06

Gleason 6

PSA 3.32

stage T1C

age 48

daVinci on 10/20/06

"Never miss a good chance to listen."

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