Decreasing incontinence

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DanMc
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 3/6/2007 5:08 PM (GMT -7)   
This is my first try at this, so please excuse my question if it is located somewhere on the site that I cannot find.  I am 4 weeks today out of the hospital from the da Vinci procedure.  All was very good with my "final pathology" report. (thank god)  I was prepared for all that I read and was told regarding incontinence but my question has to do with simply this;  Does it gradually decrease in flow and frequency or at 4, 5 or 6 months do I wake up one morning and I see a noticiable difference?
 
Many thanks,
 
DanMc

lawink
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 621
   Posted 3/6/2007 5:54 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Dan!
We found the decrease in flow to be gradual, but happening in stages.
First the feeling of no control; then control while lying and sitting but not able to get to the bathroom without gushing; then being able to get to the bathroom.

From there the ability to hold developed, but only for short periods of time which in our case at the 5 month point is what we consider normal holding and able to hold all night.

But, everyone is different, although what I've shared here I've also read from others. Bluebird has a recent post that lists this in stages. If I find it I'll bump it to the top and hope you find it.

Good luck and stay with us! Way to go on your pathology report! We walked out of the dr.'s office in tears of relief when our good one came in.

;o) Linda & Bob
Bob (60) had laproscopic prostate surgery on Sept 27, 2006 - 2/12 malignant biopsy samples - gleason 3 + 3 = 6.  Follow up PSA results and pathology results received Nov 14th are NO MORE CANCER!  Gleason changed to a 3 + 4; cancer completely confined to prostate; (even a second more aggressive, previously undetected cancer)      PSA UNDETECTABLE November 2006 AND February 2007.   
 
Bob also takes Hydroxyurea to control Polycythemia (elevated red & white cells & platelets) has secondary condition . . Myelofibrosis) -- If anyone has experience or knowledge of these, please post us.


lawink
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 621
   Posted 3/6/2007 5:57 PM (GMT -7)   

Dan . . . I just found the post you want to read.  It's titled "KW's Journey" and I just bumped it to the top.  An excerpt from it is as follows . . ..from Bluebirds posting under that thread.

**Excerpts taken from a wonderful book called “Dr. Patrick Walsh’s Guide to Surviving Prostate Cancer” by: Patrick C. Walsh, M.D. and Janet Farrar Worthington.  Copyright 2001….. 

**Urinary continence: The return of urinary control:

 

 

**Phase One is when you can remain dry when lying down.

 

**Phase Two is when you’re dry when you’re walking around.

 

**If you can walk to the bathroom and not urinate until you get there, that’s a GREAT SIGN!!!… it means that the sphincter is intact.

 

**Phase Three, you are dry when you stand up (using muscles that put pressure on the sphincter) after sitting.

 

**Remember, the recovery of urinary control is a slow process.

 

The most important thing you can do during this time

is not to get discouraged.



Bob (60) had laproscopic prostate surgery on Sept 27, 2006 - 2/12 malignant biopsy samples - gleason 3 + 3 = 6.  Follow up PSA results and pathology results received Nov 14th are NO MORE CANCER!  Gleason changed to a 3 + 4; cancer completely confined to prostate; (even a second more aggressive, previously undetected cancer)      PSA UNDETECTABLE November 2006 AND February 2007.   
 
Bob also takes Hydroxyurea to control Polycythemia (elevated red & white cells & platelets) has secondary condition . . Myelofibrosis) -- If anyone has experience or knowledge of these, please post us.

Post Edited (lawink) : 3/7/2007 7:03:47 AM (GMT-7)


Tamu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 626
   Posted 3/6/2007 6:11 PM (GMT -7)   
Dan,

As was mentioned everyone is different but I know you are seeking any and all information that you can. In my case the improvement from little or no control to some control occurred in a matter of days after the cath removal. From some control to dry at night and sitting down took about two to three weeks. I went from about 4 Serenity Poise pads a day in week 4 to 1 or 2 a day in week 6. At about 8 weeks I was at 1 pad a day and not wearing any pads at night. At 10 weeks 1 pad would last 2 or 3 days but for hygiene reasons I changed it everyday. Shortly thereafter I went padless and would have a few drops a day get on my underwear primarily when I was moving around a lot. I felt good at that point and then here a couple of weeks ago it increased and I am back to one pad a day that would last 2 or 3 days if I did not change it. From what I have gathered the improvement slows down dramatically once you get to the primarily stress incontinence level. Once I had gotten off the pads I stopped doing the kegels as it was just not on my mind. Now I am back to doing them everyday and have noticed improvement. I hope to try to go padless again once I get those muscles toned up better.

Tamu
Diagnosed 7/6/06
1 of 10 core samples, 40%
Stage T1c, Gleason 3+3
Da Vinci on 11/01/06
Catheter out on 11/13/06
56 Years Old
Post Op Path
Gleason 3+3
Approx. 5% of prostate involved
Prostate Confined, margins clear
Undetectable PSA on 12/18/06
No more pads as of 1/13/07


lifeguyd
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 664
   Posted 3/6/2007 6:14 PM (GMT -7)   

Hi Dan

I am 7 weeks past DaVinci Surgery and I have had what I am told are good results. I no longer use a pad, but I am almost always aware of my control.  It is not yet second nature.  I still occasionally squirt, but can control that easily.

It is a gradual change and you should make sure you are doing your "kegal" exercising everyday. Be sure you are flexing the right muscle. lightly press your finger against the area back of your scrotum and feel it tighten up. Also, When you are standing at the toilet practice stopping and starting your flow.

Good Luck with everything

Post not edited ~ bottom had white blank area and this was cleared!!! 

Post Edited By Moderator (bluebird) : 7/29/2007 7:56:45 PM (GMT-6)


DanMc
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 3/6/2007 7:03 PM (GMT -7)   
Many thanks for all the responses.  It has been most helpful and reassuring.  It took me a while to find this site and I only regret not finding it sooner.  Anyone having questions regarding da Vinci please feel free to ask. 
DanMc:  55 yrs. old....6.1 PSA with 3 + 3 = 6 Gleason and T1c. Diagnosed from elevated PSA.  DaVinci was best option given my research.  Very good final pathology. 


kw
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 883
   Posted 3/6/2007 8:44 PM (GMT -7)   
    DanMc,    Wish you luck with your incontenance recovery.  If for some reason you lag behind the average don't feel like your the only one.  There are more of us out here.
 
    Good Luck,  KW
 
    43
    PSA 5.7 - Discovered during Annual Physical with Family Practice Dr.
    Gleason 7
    Biopsy - 3 of 12 positive (up to 75%) all on left side of prostate
    RRP on Oct. 17, 2006 - Nerves on right side saved.
    All Lab's clear.  No Cancer outside prostate
    Cathiter in for 3 weeks due to complications in healing. Removed Nov. 9, 2006
    First Post op PSA on Dec. 11, 2006  Undetectable 0.00
    Office visit on Jan. 19th due to continued excessive urine leakage.
    Feb.20th Cystoscope and 2nd Post Op PSA. Another 0.00.....:)
     Dr. said everythign looks fine.  Continue to work Kegeal's. Leaking appears to have improved  after Cystoscope?!?!?!  Down to 3-4 pads per day!
    March 1st  Leaking has crept back up to 6 - 8 pads a day ??????? 
    May 22nd Follow up (unless incontenance does not improve by mid March) and 3rd Post Op PSA
   


bluebird
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 2542
   Posted 3/6/2007 10:12 PM (GMT -7)   

Hi ~ DanMc  & Loved Ones,

 

Caring Enough to Share…..

 

 

                    A   “Special”  Warm Welcome  to  You!   yeah   

 

This is truly a great forum!!! ~ You have joined! You are now part our forum family ~ a group of wonderful individuals who are so willing to share their journey.  Thank you for joining all of us in the continued road to HealingWell…..

 

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER... and POWER conquers fear

 

Your thread: Decreasing incontinence ...  is a wonderful gift you've given to all of us.  It is so important for Newbies down the road to know that they are not alone and any information we can provide them is so important. 

 

There are many Threads on this forum and we’ve listed a few on the Helpful Hints Page.

Continue to read as much as you can…. It will truly ease your mind.

Our thoughts and prayers will be with you as you continue to move forward in Your Journey.

 

In Friendship ~ Lee & Buddy

 

“God Bless You”

 

It's a little prayer  ~  "God Bless You"

...but it means so much each day,

It means may angels guard you

and guide you on your  way

 

 

(Direct Link ~ just click on the title below and a new window will open!  

Reminder … click on the REFRESH icon once you get there)

Helpful Hints for New Members... Hope this helps you! :)


mama bluebird - Lee & Buddy… from North Carolina

Link to our personal journey…>>>     Our Journey ~ Sharing is Caring 

April 3, 2006  53 on surgery day

RRP / Radical Retropubic Prostatectomy with "wide excision"

PSA 4.6   Gleason  3+3=6    T2a   Confined to Prostate

2nd PSA 02-06-2007 Less than 0.1 Non-Detectable :)


bluebird
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 2542
   Posted 5/27/2007 7:09 AM (GMT -7)   

5-24-2007 Partial Quote from DanMc J

First, the great news....."0" PSA at three month check following DaVinci on Feb. 5 !  Emotionally drained waiting for path report. 

 

5-24-2007 Signature Line

DanMc:  55 yrs. old....6.1 PSA with 3 + 3 = 6 Gleason and T1c. Diagnosed from elevated PSA.  DaVinci was best option given my research.  Very good final pathology. 

 

7-29-2007  Partial Quote from Dan on different thread!

second PSA last week following DaVinci 5 months ago:  0.0% !!!!!!!!!

 

Hi ~ DanMc,

 

Great News….  yeah   With PSA and Path Report!!!

Couldn’t pass this up ~ so posted it here too!

We will see you on your new thread (listed below) with your

        1st Woo~Hoo  tongue sent 5-24-07

  tongue 2nd Woo~Hoo  sent 7-29-07

 

In Friendship ~ Lee & Buddy

 

 

(Direct Link ~ just click on the title below and a new window will open!  

Reminder … click on the REFRESH icon once you get there)

 

Bladder Infection following Prostatectomy

Post Edited (bluebird) : 7/29/2007 7:55:00 PM (GMT-6)


kw
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 883
   Posted 5/27/2007 10:46 AM (GMT -7)   

   Not sure I'm the one you wwant to hear from since I'm one of the "leakers" here.  Work your kegeals like the Dr. says to at first.  Do not try to over do them. After you get healed up for a couple of months you might be able to add more reps.  At over 7 months post op I am working the Kegeals as often as I think of it.  Seems to have made a differance in the last week or so.  I have cut out almost all caffeene also.

   Hope you dry up quic, but your not alone if you dont.

  Keep working at it

  KW


    43
    PSA 5.7 - Discovered during Annual Physical with Family Practice Dr.
    Gleason 7
    Biopsy - 3 of 12 positive (up to 75%) all on left side of prostate
    RRP on Oct. 17, 2006 - Nerves on right side saved.
    All Lab's clear.  No Cancer outside prostate
    Cathiter in for 3 weeks due to complications in healing. Removed Nov. 9, 2006
    First Post op PSA on Dec. 11, 2006  Undetectable 0.00
    Office visit on Jan. 19th due to continued excessive urine leakage.
    Feb.20th Cystoscope and 2nd Post Op PSA. Another 0.00.....:)
    Dr. said everything looks fine.  Continue to work Kegeal's. Leaking appears to have improved  after Cystoscope?!?!?!  Down to 3-4 pads per day!
    March 1st  Leaking has crept back up to 6 - 8 pads a day ??????? 
    March 8th Started Detrol LA to see if it helps with the leaking?
    March 29th Collagen injection into sphincter / bladder neck area to control excessive leaking.  Worked for a couple of days then back to leaking.
    April 17th (Six Months Post Op) 2nd Collagen Injection to control excessive leaking.  Leaking started back next day at work!
    May 14th Second Opinion about my leaking and Options at OU Medical Center.  After reviewing my records the Dr. feels I will probably need some surgical intervention to stop my leaking.  But did agree to try Bio-Feedback and work hard on the Kegeal's first!
    May 30th Follow up with my Dr. and 3rd Post Op PSA.
    June 1st Start Bio-Feedback to try to control my leaking.
   


Bird6
New Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 5
   Posted 6/4/2007 7:26 AM (GMT -7)   
 I have found, after doing Kegels for a couple of weeks, that it helps to try the following without wearing a pad.
 
 
When in the bathroom with no pants or pads try sitting, coughing and generally stressing the sphincter.  You can train yourself much better if you can actually see the leakage.
 
I seem to remember that people train babies by allowing them to walk around in the garden with no nappy and I think the same thing helps us.
 
Also, once you have some degree of control try not urinate for at least two hours. Then do the above tests.
 
It seems to be helping me but I have not seen these techniques written about elsewhere.
 
Does anyone have better information on these methods, is it written up somewhere?
 
Bird6
Open RRP 29 April 07
Gleason 6
 


naimnut
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 93
   Posted 6/4/2007 12:49 PM (GMT -7)   

Here's what my surgeon told me today--very similar to everything else posted here but with a few specific differences.  BTW, I had my cath removed today at 4 days.  His guidelines:

1. No lifting anything over 3 pounds for the first week. Nothing over 10 lbs for the first month.

2. No kegels for the first two days after cath removal. Just let it flow and rest.

3. after two days with no kegels, do 100 kegels spread over a day. Try that for a couple days, then add 10 more each day until I work myself up to 300/day.  If, at any point, it gets to be too much and cause more leaking because of the  exhaustion of the sphincter, then plateau it at that level for a couple of days.

4. Continence will return as follows: first, dry all night. Second dry during the mornings but leaking in the afternoon and evenings as the sphincter and all get tired.  This is a good time to take afternoon naps. third, dry in the afternoons, finally dry around the clock with occasional drips.  Then the rest of the way dry.  This ought to take 6-8 weeks.

 

 


Age, 53
PSA 3.76, Gleason 6, T1c, scans negative
psa doubling time 35 months
Da vinci robotic scheduled for Thursday, May 31

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