dj's thread-starting in the middle

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djhouston
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 68
   Posted 3/19/2007 3:13 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi all you great folks,
I hadn't had a thread other than a question a while ago about plastic surgery on one side's neurovascular bundle, that I am still waiting to see the results of.
 
This afternoon I went for my second post op PSA (hence, starting a thread in the middle), and at the same time got a current testosterone drawn.  My last one was 195 in November, 3 months after surgery, and now it is 7 months after. I'm fatter, sluggisher, weaker, and more depressed than ever, and hope that they will be able to give me some T gel.  I have an appointment with the subspecialist in my surgeon's department who does uro-endocrinology, fertility, and penile implants. No more need for the second, and hopefully, no need for the third. 
 
God bless us all.
 
Waiting to exhale,
dj
dj's stats:
PSA (10/04): 2.9; PSA (2/06):4.4, on Androgel (serum T about 450) at age 56; negative DRE, no symptoms.
PSA (5/06):5.7 with a free PSA% of 8, OFF Androgel (serum T 163). 
Biopsy (5/06): 4/12 samples positive; postitive samples only on right side; max Gleason 4+3=7 (in 2 of the 4 -from area nearest bladder. One was 40% of sample, the others less than a mm. thick.
DaVinci robotic-assisted laparoscopic radical prostatectomy + bladder lift + Right nerve plastic surgery (8/23/06).
Catheter out 4 weeks postop, due to internal pinhole leak at bladder-urethra junction.
Pads-Not needed after about 2 weeks post-cath, but gotta go a lot more often.
Final pathology report:T2c-both sides,but in capsule; neg. margins, neg. lymph nodes, neg. seminal vesicles; final max Gleason still 4+3=7.
1st Follow-up PSA (11/7/06): <0.008 !!!; serum T: 195 - still OFF Androgel (at present). Low T may delay return of erectile function (in presence of one damaged nerve).


biker90
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 1463
   Posted 3/19/2007 3:19 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi DJ,

I posted to you on another thread and am glad you started one for yourself.

I am in the same place as you with low T. All the same symptoms. I am on Prozac to combat the depression and it helps but am not my usual self.

Please keep us updated with your progress getting back on T therapy. I see my uro for PSA test on 4/4 and will talk to him about it then.

Good luck...

Jim
Age 72. Diagnosed 11/03/06. PSA 7.05. Stage T2B Gleason 3+3.
RRP 12/7/06. Nerves and nodes okay.
Pathological stage: T2B. Gleason 3+4. Cancer confined to prostate.
PSA on 1/3/07 - 0.04.  Next PSA on 4/4/07.
 
 "Cancer feeds on fear - starve it to death."


Pete trips again!
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 1899
   Posted 3/19/2007 3:56 PM (GMT -7)   
Dj,
Sorry to hear about your testosterone problems, I spent quite a bit of time depressed, sore, and miserable from the same. I'm sure feeling better now, been on it since the end of last year and has made all the difference in the world. If PC treatment doesn't cause low T, why is this happening to so many of us??? I have spoken to many others with the same problem and no prior history prior to treatment.
Your friend,
Pete
54 years old, Surgury, Radical Prostatectomy 8/20/03, PSA 6.6, Gleason 3 + 3 = 6, Adenocarcinoma extent (moderate) Stage & Margin:T2NOMX, No Metastases, Organ Confined, bone scan: Neg. Testosterone Theropy since 12/06, Erect, Dry & Lovin Life!!! I am's what I am and that's all that I am!!! 


djhouston
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 68
   Posted 3/21/2007 3:49 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi All,
I am pleased to report that my second post-op PSA came back in one day, and was reported as <0.003 !!! This must have been done using the ultrasensitive PSA-o-meter that Swimom has talked about. T level was also drawn but went to another lab, and I guess I will hear about it when I have my appointment with the T doctor next week.

Pete, I looked on the National Library of Medicine's search page, Pub Med, and there seems to be a relationship between low T and prostate cancer, and I don't think it is the treatment causing it but something messed up with the prostate itself before it is taken out. Dr. Walsh in his book on surviving PCa mentions a bump up in T level after prostatectomy. Seems the the prostate secretes some factor that can suppress T, and when it is out the brakes come off the twins, either directly or by way of the pituitary gland, and there is a rise in T level (I don't know-I think I slept through mine).

Pete and Biker, don't you just hate the term hypogonadism. Makes me think I'm the opposite of having, as we say in Texas, Cajones (Big Ones). Hope the T doc will consider some gel therapy next week. I've been taking Cymbalta for the blues, and all the aches of lugging this fat carcass around, but I don't notice much from it. Hope the T will be the fountain of youth.

Anyway, WHEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW (an exhale)!!! Thank you all for your thoughts and prayers. Looks like I don't have to worry again until July. You all are great. All the best to you all, too!

dj
dj's stats:
PSA (10/04): 2.9; PSA (2/06):4.4, on Androgel (serum T about 450) at age 56; negative DRE, no symptoms.
PSA (5/06):5.7 with a free PSA% of 8, OFF Androgel (serum T 163). 
Biopsy (5/06): 4/12 samples positive; postitive samples only on right side; max Gleason 4+3=7 (in 2 of the 4 -from area nearest bladder. One was 40% of sample, the others less than a mm. thick.
DaVinci robotic-assisted laparoscopic radical prostatectomy + bladder lift + Right nerve plastic surgery (8/23/06).
Catheter out 4 weeks postop, due to internal pinhole leak at bladder-urethra junction.
Pads-Not needed after about 2 weeks post-cath, but gotta go a lot more often.
Final pathology report:T2c-both sides,but in capsule; neg. margins, neg. lymph nodes, neg. seminal vesicles; final max Gleason still 4+3=7.
1st Follow-up PSA (11/7/06): <0.008 !!!; serum T: 195 - still OFF Androgel (at present). Low T may delay return of erectile function (in presence of one damaged nerve).
2nd Follow-up PSA (3/19/07): <0.003 !!!; serum T: pending.
 


biker90
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 1463
   Posted 3/21/2007 3:57 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi again DJ,

I hit your other post but not harm in double congrats on the great PSA score!!!! My second comes up on 4/4 and I hope to do as well as you...

Low T sucks!!! Thats about all I can say about it and is the conclusion that my research has shown. (Personal experience is my research) I will talk to my uro about it on 4/4 and let you all know what is happening. It seems like a lot of us are in the same boat.

Good luck with your doc appointment...

Jim
Age 72. Diagnosed 11/03/06. PSA 7.05. Stage T2B Gleason 3+3.
RRP 12/7/06. Nerves and nodes okay.
Pathological stage: T2B. Gleason 3+4. Cancer confined to prostate.
PSA on 1/3/07 - 0.04.  Next PSA on 4/4/07.
 
 "Cancer feeds on fear - starve it to death."


bluebird
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 2542
   Posted 3/21/2007 9:40 PM (GMT -7)   

Hi ~ dj,

 

You definitely get a special……

*&^%$#@    WOO ~ HOO!!  (*&^%$#  undetectable!!!!!!

 

Cause for celebration!!!!!  What a wonderful day it is each and every-day…. Enjoy it to the fullest my friend.

Yippeeeee!!!!!!        

Thanks for sharing over 55 postings with all of us!!!!  I'm glad you started this thread..

Keeping you close in thoughts and prayers... Lee & Buddy

 


mama bluebird - Lee & Buddy… from North Carolina

Link to our personal journey…>>>     Our Journey ~ Sharing is Caring 

April 3, 2006  53 on surgery day

RRP / Radical Retropubic Prostatectomy with "wide excision"

PSA 4.6   Gleason  3+3=6    T2a   Confined to Prostate

2nd PSA 02-06-2007 Less than 0.1 Non-Detectable :)


M. Kat
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 715
   Posted 3/22/2007 4:01 AM (GMT -7)   
DJ - yeah on another almost undetectable PSA!! I also hope for your sake that you can get the T thing worked out. best wishes to you...kat
Husband Jeff 56 years old diagnosed July 27, 2006
PSA 6.5, 2 positive areas in biopsy, Gleason 3+3=6
Radical Retropubic Prostatectomy August 30, 2006
pathology report - all clear - cancer gone
1st post-surgery PSA test <0.1, 2nd post-surgery PSA test <0.1, 3rd PSA <0.1
no more pads Oct 12, 2006
first "real" erection with use of pump 12/16/06
3/07 - occasional dribbles and erections with Cialis and pump


GreenAcres
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 474
   Posted 3/22/2007 6:02 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi, DJ. I just want to add our congrats for the low PSA - that's a biggie on the relief scale!
Husband age 65
PSA on 5/1/06: 4.2 (had doubled in 13 mos. and rising monthly)
DaVinci Surgery 8/2/06
T2a (at biopsy)
T4c (at pathology) w/cancer cell leakage into fatty tissue
Post-Surgical PSA on 10/3/06 - undetectable!
Update: 11/1/06 - perhaps bladder neck involvement; 30%-50% chance of recurrence
Future: PSA tests twice-yearly for now
 


Tamu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 626
   Posted 3/22/2007 3:19 PM (GMT -7)   
DJ,

Hey there old HS buddy. Glad to hear that PSA was virtually undetectable. I do not have another one taken until June. I am feeling better these days but the ED is still with me. I beginning to feel a little more frisky so maybe that is a good sign. Hope the T doc comes up with some help.

Tamu
Diagnosed 7/6/06
1 of 10 core samples, 40%
Stage T1c, Gleason 3+3
Da Vinci on 11/01/06
Catheter out on 11/13/06
56 Years Old
Post Op Path
Gleason 3+3
Approx. 5% of prostate involved
Prostate Confined, margins clear
Undetectable PSA on 12/18/06
No more pads as of 1/13/07


biker90
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 1463
   Posted 3/30/2007 5:34 PM (GMT -7)   
Hey DJ,

How did the doc appointment go with the low T? I am interested in what your doc said before I go see mine on 4/4.

I've been on 40 mg daily Prozac for the depression and it barely keeps me from shooting myself. My T level was 48 a couple of weeks ago. I really hope there is something I can do about this.

Thanks and good luck...

Jim
Age 72. Diagnosed 11/03/06. PSA 7.05. Stage T2B Gleason 3+3.
RRP 12/7/06. Nerves and nodes okay.
Pathological stage: T2B. Gleason 3+4. Cancer confined to prostate.
PSA on 1/3/07 - 0.04.  Next PSA on 4/4/07.
 
 "Cancer feeds on fear - starve it to death."


djhouston
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 68
   Posted 4/2/2007 3:46 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Folks, Thanks for all the good wishes!
Busy at work, so this is the first chance to talk abou the T appointment. The doc had his resident come in and examined me first (including a nifty part where he gave the twins a good squeeze-yowww!). Then he reported everything to the Big Chief T doc.

When I had the PSA drawn, I also asked to have a T level, too. When I sat down with the T doc, he told me the new level was 166. He said that was not good (Really!). He suggested that I start on gel supplementation again. He looked over my post op pathology report, and was confident that,because of negative margins, nodes, and vesicles, I could start on supplementation. I said, what about any occult cancer cells that could have gotten out during the surgery. He said he didn't think that happened, BUT, in case it did, it is better to know earlier than later. He said starting on the T is a "provocative test," but in case there is any cancer still there, it is most likely in the prostate bed area, and would be better treated with radiation earlier, than if it lay there and then broke away and went somewhere else. So, he started me on one tube of Testim 1% each morning. I had some Androgel left from before, but it was just a month over expiration date. He said to check the pharmacy to see if I could still use it (expensive to throw away, and I have 2 boxes (months) worth). He gave me week of Testim samples. He told me to come back in one month, and I would have another PSA (the fateful test!) and a T level to see how well I am absorbing it.

While I was getting around to call the pharmacy, I started the Testim. It is new. Has anyone tried it? I don't know what testosterone smells like, but this stuff has the scent of a musk cologne that I used in college (ca. 40 years ago). I grew not to like that cologne, and this gel has a stronger scent that lasts all day! I looked on the package insert and it didn't say that they added fragrance to gel (who needs scented medicine, anyway?). I found out that the Androgel may be okay for another two or three months, so I am going to use it up, and talk to the doc about changing back to the Unscented Androgel for long-term. It is a little thing, but the only place you can apply Testim is on your shoulders and upper arms, and this is close to your nose.

He asked about erections and I told him nothing doing, even with meds. He is the one that wrote a paper about needing T for the neurovascular bundles to recover and that T helps Viagra and the other oral medications to work. He thought this might help me recover faster, but told me to stay on my 25mg of Viagra every night, six or so nights a week, but go to 100mg for sex, and to add to it the 1000-microgram MUSE application. He said, which I hadn't been clear on, that I needed to have the Viagra on an empty stomach because any food will delay absorbtion or make it useless. He also said to use a pump every day but not to use the ring, just leave the thing pumped up for 5 or 10 minutes to keep the tissues inflated.

So, now I am in this experiment on my own body to see if the PSA is going to rise with the magic gel. After 5 days of supplements, I haven't felt any different - no increase in energy or strength, but it may take a while, since I am so low to begin with. I am also on Cymbalta, and that hasn't lifted my mood yet, but I am not lower, either. The low PSA did a lot to raise my mood, and hopefully it'll stay low, even with the T.

Will keep you all posted, and thanks so much again!
dj
dj's stats:
PSA (10/04): 2.9; PSA (2/06):4.4, on Androgel (serum T about 450) at age 56; negative DRE, no symptoms.
PSA (5/06):5.7 with a free PSA% of 8, OFF Androgel (serum T 163). 
Biopsy (5/06): 4/12 samples positive; postitive samples only on right side; max Gleason 4+3=7 (in 2 of the 4 -from area nearest bladder. One was 40% of sample, the others less than a mm. thick.
DaVinci robotic-assisted laparoscopic radical prostatectomy + bladder lift + Right nerve plastic surgery (8/23/06).
Catheter out 4 weeks postop, due to internal pinhole leak at bladder-urethra junction.
Pads-Not needed after about 2 weeks post-cath, but gotta go a lot more often.
Final pathology report:T2c-both sides,but in capsule; neg. margins, neg. lymph nodes, neg. seminal vesicles; final max Gleason still 4+3=7.
1st Follow-up PSA (11/7/06): <0.008 !!!; serum T: 195 - still OFF Androgel (at present). Low T may delay return of erectile function (in presence of one damaged nerve).
2nd Follow-up PSA (3/19/07): <0.003 !!!; serum T: pending
Testosterone Level (3/19/07): 163, down from November 2006!
Uro-Endocrinology Consult (3/28/07): Prescribed Testim gel 1% once a day, and recheck PSA and T-level in a month.
 


biker90
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 1463
   Posted 4/2/2007 3:56 PM (GMT -7)   
Hey DJ,

Thanks a lot for the very encouraging update! It sounds like you are on your way to recovery, finally. I see my doc on Wednesday and hope he will do the same thing for me. My T level was 48 a couple of weeks ago and I have never experienced anything this miserable in my life.

Please keep us posted on your progress and I will do the same...

Jim
Age 72. Diagnosed 11/03/06. PSA 7.05. Stage T2B Gleason 3+3.
RRP 12/7/06. Nerves and nodes okay.
Pathological stage: T2B. Gleason 3+4. Cancer confined to prostate.
PSA on 1/3/07 - 0.04.  Next PSA on 4/4/07.
 
 "Cancer feeds on fear - starve it to death."


biker90
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 1463
   Posted 8/2/2007 8:07 PM (GMT -7)   
Hey DJ.

How's the T therapy going? I've been on it for a couple of months and am back up to 613 and feeling great. PSA is 0.00 - so far so good.

I hope you are doing okay and would like to hear from you again...

Jim
Age 73. Diagnosed 11/03/06. PSA 7.05. Stage T2C Gleason 3+3.
RRP 12/7/06. Nerves and nodes okay.
Pathological stage: T2C. Gleason 3+4. Cancer confined to prostate.
PSAs from  1/3/07 - 7/18/07 0.00. 
Next PSA on 10/17/07
 


bluebird
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 2542
   Posted 8/2/2007 8:12 PM (GMT -7)   
tongue  Hey ~ DJ,
We need to hear from you!!!!  Okay... yeah This information is soooooo important!!
Keeping you and *Our Biker "extra" close.
In Friendship ~ Lee & Buddy

Tamu
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 626
   Posted 8/3/2007 10:47 AM (GMT -7)   
DJ,

Hey old high school buddy where are you? BB has put out a call for you and I was also wondering how things are going. There is a high school reunion next year just to remind you.

Tamu
Diagnosed 7/6/06, 1 of 10 core samples, 40%,Stage T1c, Gleason 3+3
Da Vinci on 11/01/06, Catheter out on 11/13/06
56 Years Old
Post Op Path, Gleason 3+3, Approx. 5% of prostate involved
Prostate Confined, margins clear
Undetectable PSA on 12/18/06
No more pads as of 1/13/07
Began injections in April '07
Undetectable PSA on 6/25/07


bluebird
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 2542
   Posted 8/30/2007 6:30 PM (GMT -7)   

Hey ~ DJ,

Just a little note to let you know our thoughts are with you as you move into your 13th month of healing/recovery.

Please ~ as time permits…. Touch base and let us know how you’re doing.

Remember this path is best traveled with friends…. Stay Close… Okay yeah

Keeping you close in thoughts and prayers.

In Friendship ~ Lee & Buddy


mama bluebird - Lee & Buddy… from North Carolina

 

v          We invite you to visit our personal thread:  Click Here:  “Our Journey” ~ Sharing is Caring 

April 3, 2006  53 on surgery day

RRP / Radical Retropubic Prostatectomy

PSA 4.6   Gleason  3+3=6    T2a   Confined to Prostate

3rd PSA 08-07-2007 Less than 0.1 Non-Detectable :)

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