What was your kegal routine post-surgery?

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Izzyblizzy
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Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 411
   Posted 4/20/2007 3:51 PM (GMT -7)   
Our doctor said four sets of 20 kegals per day.  (Holding and releasing for 5-10 seconds).
 
What did you do post surgery?
 
Tanya
Age: 63
Diagnosed: 10/30/06
PSA: 3.7 (up from 3.4 previous year)
Biopsy: 1/10 cancerous, 5% of one core, right apex.
Gleason: 3+3=6
Da Vinci: April 10, 2007
Path results: 1% of prostate involved. Very small tumors on both right and left apex. Negative margins. Gleason 3+4=7.


biker90
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 1463
   Posted 4/20/2007 4:29 PM (GMT -7)   
Hey Tanya,

I did 5 sec on, 5 sec off, for 5 reps, 10 times a day.
 
I updated my post with a section on continence if you are interested:

Jim


Age 72. Diagnosed 11/03/06. PSA 7.05. Stage T2B Gleason 3+3.
RRP 12/7/06. Nerves and nodes okay.
Pathological stage: T2B. Gleason 3+4. Cancer confined to prostate.
PSA on 1/3/07 - 0.04. 
PSA on 4/4/07 - 0.00  T level - 48  Restarted T therapy.
Next PSA on 7/11/07.
 
 "Cancer feeds on fear - starve it to death."

Post Edited (biker90) : 4/20/2007 5:34:28 PM (GMT-6)


Izzyblizzy
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 411
   Posted 4/20/2007 4:35 PM (GMT -7)   
i read that in Alex's thread which is what prompted this post. I wasn't in the room when the doctor told ken this, but wondering if doing 20 per set is too much? I know i have read on here before that you can overdo it.
Age: 63
Diagnosed: 10/30/06
PSA: 3.7 (up from 3.4 previous year)
Biopsy: 1/10 cancerous, 5% of one core, right apex.
Gleason: 3+3=6
Da Vinci: April 10, 2007
Path results: 1% of prostate involved. Very small tumors on both right and left apex. Negative margins. Gleason 3+4=7.


biker90
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 1463
   Posted 4/20/2007 4:45 PM (GMT -7)   
I doubled the Kegel routine one day because I thought if 10 is good then 20 has to be better. I got wet that night. I believe that you can overdo it. The sphincter is a small muscle and quite sensitive to exercise. Bluebird also has excellent info on Kegels.

Good luck...

Jim
Age 72. Diagnosed 11/03/06. PSA 7.05. Stage T2B Gleason 3+3.
RRP 12/7/06. Nerves and nodes okay.
Pathological stage: T2B. Gleason 3+4. Cancer confined to prostate.
PSA on 1/3/07 - 0.04. 
PSA on 4/4/07 - 0.00  T level - 48  Restarted T therapy.
Next PSA on 7/11/07.
 
 "Cancer feeds on fear - starve it to death."


Izzyblizzy
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 411
   Posted 4/20/2007 5:02 PM (GMT -7)   
ok thanks, looked at bluebird's journey too.

I just want to make sure we aren't starting out doing them wrong post-surgery (pre-surgery, Ken was doing them whenever he peed and would stop the urine 5-6 times during each pee during the day). Doctor said *don't* do them while peeing post-surgery.

Also, i am not entirely sure that Ken heard the instructions correctly, as i wasn't in there, and i am the "listener/observer" in the family, lol!
Age: 63
Diagnosed: 10/30/06
PSA: 3.7 (up from 3.4 previous year)
Biopsy: 1/10 cancerous, 5% of one core, right apex.
Gleason: 3+3=6
Da Vinci: April 10, 2007
Path results: 1% of prostate involved. Very small tumors on both right and left apex. Negative margins. Gleason 3+4=7.


StrictlyInc
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 353
   Posted 4/21/2007 11:31 AM (GMT -7)   
I found that doing them while urinating post-surgery was fine.

I would treat the kegels like any other exercise. If you bench press 200 pounds normally, don't jump to 300 tomorrow... work your way up to it, and see what you can handle. I think your body will respond in a way that you know what is too much.

I did/do them when I think about it, so it varies. I more actively did it immediately after surgery, of course. Now I have some stress incontinence, so once in awhile if I think about it, I do some. The nice thing about doing it when urinating is that you can tell if you are doing it right, and I'm sure your subconcious brain records that info on some level.

Good luck!
____________________
 
Prostate cancer diagnosed:  May 15, 2006 (age 40)
Gleason score:  3+3=6
daVinci radical prostatectomy:  July 25, 2006
size of tumor:  approx 1.1 inches
post-surgery Gleason score:  3+4=7; negative margins from surgery
number of pads/day at 3 months after surgery:  3 to 5
number of pads/day at 4 months after surgery:  1 to 2
number of pads/day at 6 months after surgery:  0 to 1
1st post-surgery PSA:  0 (Nov 2006)
2nd post-surgery PSA:  0 (Feb 2007)
ongoing post-surgery treatment:  Cialis every other day, Viagra "on-demand", ErecAid pump daily Cialis every other day, ErecAid pump twice daily (when I can manage it)
 


Izzyblizzy
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 411
   Posted 4/21/2007 7:44 PM (GMT -7)   
Well Ken did start out with the 20 but noticed that after the first couple sets seemed to be leaking more late in the day. So he is going to cut it down to 10 sets at a time, and see if that works better.

He was "dry" all night last night. (night of catheter removal). But did get up to pee about four times in the night. Today was pretty good too, some drops especially to get to the bathroom. He changed his pad once today, not soaked or anything, but says it is uncomfortable when slightly wet.

He definitely can sense when he has to go, so that sounds good! But can't control it very well once he senses the urge. Has a little bit of leakage then and when he passes gas (I am such a lady, lol!). But so far so good, I think.

Tanya
Age: 63
Diagnosed: 10/30/06
PSA: 3.7 (up from 3.4 previous year)
Biopsy: 1/10 cancerous, 5% of one core, right apex.
Gleason: 3+3=6
Da Vinci: April 10, 2007
Path results: 1% of prostate involved. Very small tumors on both right and left apex. Negative margins. Gleason 3+4=7.


bluebird
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 2542
   Posted 4/21/2007 7:54 PM (GMT -7)   
 
 
Hey Tanya & Ken,
 
I've placed the links above for you....  and will add this link to Helpful Hints...
 
Our little sphincter muscle was in shape before surgery... No doubt this helped in our recovery....   Our routine: 

After surgery:  We were to still do the kegels when urinating.  This is the only time Buddy does them.  He allows his first urination in the morning to have a nice steady flow!!  Then the rest of the day he does his start / stop / start /stop.  No doubt in our mind that the kegels, walking, and stairs have been instrumental in our continued recovery of urinary continence. 

 

I will tell you this... the sound of the early morning stream is music to my ears.... and the start / stop / start / stop continues to bring a smile to my face. 

 

We hope you're "BOTH" doing well on this new stone you're on.  
Keeing you close in thoughts and prayers as you continuing to take One~Day~At~A~Time....  Y'all have done so well!!!!! 
Hugs from...Lee & Buddy

mama bluebird - Lee & Buddy… from North Carolina

J  We invite you to visit our personal thread:  Click Here:  “Our Journey” ~ Sharing is Caring 

April 3, 2006  53 on surgery day

RRP / Radical Retropubic Prostatectomy with "wide excision"

PSA 4.6   Gleason  3+3=6    T2a   Confined to Prostate

2nd PSA 02-06-2007 Less than 0.1 Non-Detectable :)


Izzyblizzy
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 411
   Posted 4/21/2007 8:11 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks for the links ... bluebird :)

When buddy did them post surgery during urination, how many start/stops would he normally do?

We did do them that way pre-surgery (doc said easiest way to identify the muscles), and doing them that way equated to 5-6 or so during a pee (so not sure that he could even get 20 reps in during a pee).

But doctor said don't want any extra stress on bladder post-surgery? And since he now knows the muscles to do them while not peeing. Sounds like doc's might differ on this?
Age: 63
Diagnosed: 10/30/06
PSA: 3.7 (up from 3.4 previous year)
Biopsy: 1/10 cancerous, 5% of one core, right apex.
Gleason: 3+3=6
Da Vinci: April 10, 2007
Path results: 1% of prostate involved. Very small tumors on both right and left apex. Negative margins. Gleason 3+4=7.


Researcher87
New Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 14
   Posted 4/22/2007 3:57 PM (GMT -7)   
For the first 6 weeks or so, I did the usual 5 sec hold, 5 sec rest for 10 reps, 3 sets/day. Then I added 5 quick squeezes, holding on the last squeeze for 5 sec, then rest 5 sec. I found the addition of the 5 quick squeezes really started to help improve my incontinence. I try to do 3 sets of 15 per day now. Still at 2 pads/day, but that's down from 5/day right after surgery.
**********
51 years old
PSA = 4.3 (jumped 0.9 in 5 months)
DRE: Negative
Biopsy on 11/7/06 (10 cores): 2 cores Gleason 6 and 2 cores Gleason 7 (3+4)
Surgery: open RRP done Jan 12, 2007
Pathology: Gleason 7, negative lymphs nodes and margins. Focal extraprostatic extension. Stage 3a
Six week PSA: Zero!


Izzyblizzy
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 411
   Posted 4/22/2007 6:12 PM (GMT -7)   
thanks, researcher. Interesting on the quick squeeze method.

Sounds like everyone does a bit of different routine. I am hoping that as long as Ken is doing them, it will do good no matter the exact number and sets! :)

Please pitch in how many sets/reps anyone else did post surgery too. Would be interesting to kind of figure out what the "norm" is.
Age: 63
Diagnosed: 10/30/06
PSA: 3.7 (up from 3.4 previous year)
Biopsy: 1/10 cancerous, 5% of one core, right apex.
Gleason: 3+3=6
Da Vinci: April 10, 2007
Path results: 1% of prostate involved. Very small tumors on both right and left apex. Negative margins. Gleason 3+4=7.


bluebird
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 2542
   Posted 4/24/2007 1:03 PM (GMT -7)   

Hi ~ Tanya & Ken,

 

Just a little back information to help understand what we are dealing with.

Getting the little guy (sphincter muscle) ready before surgery day… !!  This is why the exercises (kegels, walking, stairs) are soooooooo important to strengthen this little muscle before surgery.  So ~ when it’s time for him to kick in and start working…. He will be ready!

The main thing our urologist told us is to “not overwork him”!!! 

Take time to heal/recover….  Listen to your body.. it will tell you what it needs and what it doesn’t need.  Don’t push too fast because you really are going to feel good….

But take it slow!!!

 

An **excerpt from Dr. Walsh’s Guide to Surviving Prostate Cancer

 

**Men are equipped with three separate anatomical structures that control urine – a sphincter at the bladder neck, the prostate itself, and the external sphincter.  Radical Prostatectomy knocks out two of these—the sphincter at the bladder neck and, of course, the prostate—leaving only the external sphincter to do the work of three.

 

**Because of the powerful structures upstream, this (external sphincter) is never tested or even used much in most men….

 

Right after Mr. Hang said goodbye!!! 

A small amount of leakage.  When we got home (after holding it for approximately 1 hour ~ Buddy was thrilled to be peeing like a teenager again!!!

 

START the urine flow and once it was in full flow

STOP  Hold for 10 seconds  ~  He felt the sphincter muscle tighten up

START regular flow

STOP  Hold for 10 seconds

START regular flow

STOP  Hold for 10 seconds

START regular flow

STOP  Hold for 10 seconds

(depending on the amount of urine…you may do 5 reps)

 

(this is music to my ears...)

 

Tanya ~ after talking through this last night… Buddy recalls adding a few (in-between) kegels during the day when he was up and about in the house.  He also pushed the sphincter during his walks to hold the urine and again could feel the muscle strengthening over time.  He could also feel the muscle during the stop/start while urinating.  Definitely the time spent getting this little guy ready prior to surgery ….was a huge reason for his continence so early on.  He stopped doing the in-between kegels early on in his recover… because of this.  No doubt he would have continued doing more kegels if he felt it was needed.  That’s where listening to your body comes into play.  This is so important….

 

Before surgery ~ Buddy started a wellness program when he retired 4 years ago.  2.5 hours (Mon-Fri)  His routine included walking, leg lifts, stairmaster, weigh machines, hand weights, and swimming) established before being diagnosed and continued right up until surgery time…. Adding kegels to this routine! 

 

After surgery ~ Buddy held off his regular workout routine for 8 weeks… 

He walked 3 hours daily….1 hour each… a.m. /noon /pm during this time period….. 

Week 1 through Week 3 ~ He walked the driveway which has a nice incline… gradually going further and further up the lane. 

Week 4 through Week 8 ~ He began slowly heading toward the water wheel approx 1 mile from home…which has quite a bit of incline… since we are in the mountains. 

Week 6 ~ I bought him 3 lb. hand weights to carry.  His upper body was screaming for some kind of workout J 

Week 8 through Current Date…..Back to the YMCA…  (Tuesdays & Thursdays only)

Time:  Listen to your body… Don’t over do it and gradually increase your time.

His workouts have a few modifications.  No sit down exercises (bicycling, machines with hard surfaces).  We are really going to take care of the little sphincter muscle that’s doing all the work in keeping his urinary control in control.  Concentrating on walking indoor track, upper body stretching, abdominal area strengthening, and the stair master machine to help strengthen the sphincter muscle.  He finishes up his workout with a gentle swim and a nice hot shower!!

 

At 11 months and currently…

You must listen to your body.  Buddy’s 5’9” and weighs 162 and is in good health!!! J

Reminder:  We are in our 11th month of healing/recovery at the time this schedule was listed.

He started out with less time…. And built up to the current time…

2.5 hour workout at the Y! 2 days / week *Tuesdays & Thursdays

 

20 minutes walking the track

20 minutes upper body stretching and arm weights

12 minutes stair machine.  He does the full step (not the little short ones)

20 minutes walking the track

20 minutes upper body stretching and arm weights

12 minutes stair machine. (full step)

06 minutes walking the track

15 minutes swimming

15 minute “nice hot shower”…. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

I hope this helps and will add this to “Our Journey”. 

 

Yes ~ even the doctors have different opinions and I think it’s truly up to the individual to get in tune with his “body” and the little guy (his sphincter muscle!)

This is such a small muscle and needs to be protected at all cost!!!

 

This works for us and are truly happy to share!

Happy “kegeling”… on our paths to HealingWell.

In friendship ~ Lee & Buddy


mama bluebird - Lee & Buddy… from North Carolina

J  We invite you to visit our personal thread:  Click Here:  “Our Journey” ~ Sharing is Caring 

April 3, 2006  53 on surgery day

RRP / Radical Retropubic Prostatectomy with "wide excision"

PSA 4.6   Gleason  3+3=6    T2a   Confined to Prostate

2nd PSA 02-06-2007 Less than 0.1 Non-Detectable :)


Izzyblizzy
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 411
   Posted 4/24/2007 4:58 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks bluebird,

Ken has been doing stairs inside our house (we have about 48 from bottom to top and can make a little circular route with them), and going outside to walk but we do have some inclines, hasn't ventured out any of the trails yet or gone skiiing :)

We did have a wierd scare today. We are being dumped on with snow and have about 18 inches. We have an electric snowblower. I did some this morning. Cause didn't want to get too far behind. Then the power went out for about four hours and when it came back on, was about 8 more inches since this morning, so went out to do some more.

So Ken is standing just outside the garage door watching and supervising :). And all of sudden the snowblower doesn't work and i turn around and the freaking garage door has started coming down! Ken grabbed it (bad) and i tucked underneath/dived and screamed "let go". (none of our other doors were unlocked so we would have been locked out).

So now Ken is standing outside in his slippers!! Turns out power is out and we apparently had some flicker or something that triggered the garage door closer, but anyway the power is OUT!! So ken is yelling at me through the garage door how to unhook the electric thing and open it manually. But I can't see a thing! So i go in to get a flashlight and thankfully just then the power turns back on. But that hurt his tummy!

Not to mention those garage doors are supposed to automatically stop if they sense anything underneath! But we figure what happened is a flicker outage triggered it and then a second later the power was out it just kept coming cause it couldn't eletronically sensor anything.

Have to get that thing checked out! Anyway, i unlocked the front door so if that happened again could get in! (even if tramping through two feet of snow)! But Ken is like **** that hurt, but feels a bit better now, don't think he did any permanent damage, but NOT good!

Tanya
Age: 63
Diagnosed: 10/30/06
PSA: 3.7 (up from 3.4 previous year)
Biopsy: 1/10 cancerous, 5% of one core, right apex.
Gleason: 3+3=6
Da Vinci: April 10, 2007
Path results: 1% of prostate involved. Very small tumors on both right and left apex. Negative margins. Gleason 3+4=7.


bluebird
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 2542
   Posted 4/25/2007 8:29 PM (GMT -7)   

Hi ~ Tanya & Ken,

 

48 stairs… whew! A nice daily workout for sure.  You will truly see the difference with having the stairs to help strengthen the sphincter muscle. 

 

Good grief as I’m reading your note I’m actually visualizing you scrambling to get under the garage door and I’m yelling to Ken… Let go!!! Let go!!! Whew… we made it!!!  Seriously ~ I could feel every moment…  UGH… Time to get one of those rocks to hide a key in!!!

 

Hope things have settled down with the weather out your way.  Those snowblowers are worth their weight in gold…  Our family flew out of Denver yesterday a.m. and they said the takeoff was something they hope to never experience again!

 

Please let us know how Ken’s feeling today….  Hopefully you guys are just kicking back during the storm. 

 

Refresh my memory…. Are you taking time off during this time?  

Thinking of you…..  In Friendship ~ Lee & Buddy


mama bluebird - Lee & Buddy… from North Carolina

J  We invite you to visit our personal thread:  Click Here:  “Our Journey” ~ Sharing is Caring 

April 3, 2006  53 on surgery day

RRP / Radical Retropubic Prostatectomy with "wide excision"

PSA 4.6   Gleason  3+3=6    T2a   Confined to Prostate

2nd PSA 02-06-2007 Less than 0.1 Non-Detectable :)


Izzyblizzy
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 411
   Posted 4/26/2007 11:42 AM (GMT -7)   
Well, it warmed up significantly yesterday so melting fast.

Our garage door was possessed though. opened by itself during middle of night after that incident, and then power went out from about 4 AM to 12 noon yesterday again. Our internet service was out yesterday too. Then on/off flickers and I would look out to check the garage door and would be up or down or stuck in the middle. Power is back to normal today though.

Oh, and i work from home, so just lightened my load a bit. Ken is just doing stuff from home, but has a few clients to visit next week probably.
Tanya
Age: 63
Diagnosed: 10/30/06
PSA: 3.7 (up from 3.4 previous year)
Biopsy: 1/10 cancerous, 5% of one core, right apex.
Gleason: 3+3=6
Da Vinci: April 10, 2007
Path results: 1% of prostate involved. Very small tumors on both right and left apex. Negative margins. Gleason 3+4=7.


biker90
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 1463
   Posted 4/26/2007 12:30 PM (GMT -7)   
Hey Ken and Tanya,

Sounds like you need to shoot that d____ garage door before it hurts somebody.

Nice to hear you two are getting your life somewhat back to normal. Hang in there, spring is on the way...

Jim
Age 72. Diagnosed 11/03/06. PSA 7.05. Stage T2B Gleason 3+3.
RRP 12/7/06. Nerves and nodes okay.
Pathological stage: T2B. Gleason 3+4. Cancer confined to prostate.
PSA on 1/3/07 - 0.04. 
PSA on 4/4/07 - 0.00  T level - 48  Restarted T therapy.
Next PSA on 7/11/07.
 
 "Cancer feeds on fear - starve it to death."

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