Should One "Hold" At All Times for Improved Continence?

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Gene214
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 422
   Posted 5/29/2007 9:15 PM (GMT -7)   
I am not sure what I have read and by whom ...which seemed to indicate that one should "hold" (as if stopping urine flow) at all times.  Is that so?  Should I be going around all day trying to hold my flow instead of going around relaxed ...until I practice Keagals?
 
Gene 
Age: 63
First biopsy 07/05;
Diagnosed: "Suspicious looking cells". Dr. says wait and watch.
Second biopsy: 12/27/06
Diagnosed cancer: 01/24/07
Gleason Grade: 3+3=6
Radical Open Nerve-sparing Prostatetomy: 02-14-07
Cancer confined to prostate
Pathology Stage of cancer: T2c
First Post-Op PSA on 04-18-07: 0.011
 
 
 


Cedar Chopper
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 432
   Posted 5/30/2007 3:06 AM (GMT -7)   

Good Morning Gene,

I hope the move at work is going well.  I have a good feeling about your work there!

My understanding - from my bio-feedback therapist - is that you don't hold at maximum all the time.  However, there is a certain muscle tone that develops in all of the pelvic floor muscles that will seem somewhat flexed (Think half-power while doing elevator kegals.) all the time.  Also, she suggests, after a few weeks of scheduled kegal exercises, in addition to the scheduled routine, to just do a partial routine of kegal exercises whenever you think of them.  If you compare this work to conditioning other muscles in the body, you might exercise - say your legs or arms - for even hours at a time, but you would not just flex them all the time.  The muscles you want are dynamic.  Not static.

I personally do the warm-up (2 seconds on 2 seconds off) or elevator kegals (off 5 seconds, half-power 10 seconds, full-power 10 seconds, half-power 10 seconds,  - repeat) for as many times until I get bored - whenever I think of them.  For example, whenever I sense leaking.....  whenever I am driving...  whenever I am typing at the computer..  whenever I am doing some routine job on my feet.....

Your other post mentioned your using the clamp.  Even when I was leaking at full speed (at week 4 upon return to work), I could go 2 hours with the combination of the men's 8 oz. liner and women's 12 oz. incontinence pad at 90 degrees-  mostly just replacing the wonen's liner every two hours if I remembered.  My point:  I feel that using the clamp has to be a lot like doing kegals while urinating to stop the urine flow.  My bio-feedback therapist believes that doing this for any reason except to learn to isolate the muscles is counterproductive as it confuses the smooth muscle (no conscious control) valve of the bladder that is an integral part of your ultimate continence.

When you become continent again, four things:  your overall health, the muscle tone of the pelvic floor muscles, periodic conscious control of the kegel sphincter when lifting - etc., and this bladder valve all work together.

You will recover to full health.  You are "...fearfully and wonderfully made...!"
ihs
 
CCedar



~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*
2 Years of PSA between 4 and 5.5
Biopsy 23DEC06 
Only 5 percent cancer in one of 8 samples.
Gleeson 3+3=6
Radical Prostatectomy 16FEB07 at age 54.
1+" tumor - touching inside edge of gland.
Confined:)
***************
Texas Hill Country
FRESH Produce Department Manager
Have you had your 5 colors today?

Post Edited (Cedar Chopper) : 5/30/2007 4:25:27 AM (GMT-6)


Mike A
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 213
   Posted 5/30/2007 5:07 AM (GMT -7)   
Gene,
Everybody is different to be sure! I had the best results, when I did my kegels while standing and urinating, especially in the morning. Outside of that I'd kegel during the times I was most suceptable to leakage. For example - While I was standing up from a sitting position, climbing stairs, lifting anything, etc. I found that if I did too much kegeling, I leaked pretty badly in the late evening. I think that little muscle tires pretty quickly, especially in the first few months. Try out a few different methods, until you can evaluate which one works best for you. Give it time!
Patience is the hardest thing to work on after this surgery, isn't it?!
Mike
June 2005 - Age 53 PSA 4.8 at regular physical
October 2005 - After several rounds of anti-biotics, PSA 5.2 at Urlogist
November 2005 - Biopsy negative
July 2006 - PSA 5.9 at regular Physical
October 2006 - After several more rounds of anti-biotics PSA 8.1
November 2006 - Second biopsy - Positive
December 2006 - Gleason (3+4=7), Tumor T1c, CT Scan and Bone Scan Negative
January 2, 2007 Robotic Prostatectomy, University of Rochester Medical Center - Tumor confined but larger than thought, only one nerve able to be spared. Margins clear.
February 2007 - Three to four pads a day, no erection with viagara.
March 2007 - Down to two pads a day, had first intercourse with Erecaid pump and bands, otherwise still flat tire.
April 2007 - First Post-Surgical PSA 0.02 and a great relief! Down to one pad a day. Still unable to achive erection without pump.
May, 2007 - Still one pad a day, even try a smaller pad on occasion. Slight improvement on the ED.
"If patience is a virtue, I feel like the most virtuous guy on the planet!"


Bill23
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 18
   Posted 5/30/2007 7:48 AM (GMT -7)   
Gene:
 
It seems as if you and I are in the same boat.  I'm 2 months post-op,  and leak continuously during the day.  A lot of the guys on this board suffer from the "classic" form of stress incontinence.... which is leakage when coughing,  sneezing,  running,  etc.  While a real pain,  it is not as bad as the continuous leaking I have even when standing perfectly still.  This does not allow my bladder to accumulate any volume whatsoever during the day.... it all comes out in my pads,  which I change up to 15 times a day.
 
As far as your initial question,  I try to hold a kegel as long as I can,  but I must eventually let go,  and everything in my bladder just pours out.  It is truly ruining my life because I have seen zero progress in 2 months.... it is taking a huge toll on my well being because the total lack of any progress is so atypical from most people on this board.
 
Are you able to stop and start the flow in the morning?  I can only slow the flow briefly,   not stop it.  Since the morning is the only time I have a full bladder,  I can only practice this once a day.
 
My prostate was rather large at 60 grams,  so I am fearful that some damage was done to the sphincter or pelvic floor muscles upon removal.  The doc,  of course,  says no but I honestly feel he is feeding me a bunch of BS to cover his rear.  All he knows how to say is "patience and kegels"....  there has to be more to it than that after 2 months.  I started doing kegels weeks before surgery,  and have just started biofeedback lessons,  although the technician says that I have been doing the kegels properly.
 
I'm beginning to regret having the surgery at all.. I spent so much time researching all the procedures and doctors,  in order to make the right choice, only to face the prospect of being a guy in his early 50's living the life of a 90 year old in diapers.
 
Sorry to be so negative,  but this is becoming unbearable.  There are a lot of upbeat,  wonderful people on this board who have offered words of encouragement,  I'm sure you are better off listening to them!! Good luck to you!
 
Bill
 
 

Age 54,  PSA always 1.5,  jumped to 3.5 in 10/06.
Biopsy 11/06, Stage T1c, Gleason 6 (3+3), 25% in 1 of 12 cores.
Negative Cat Scan, Bone Scan, and DRE.
DaVinci RP 4/2/07, Catheter out 4/9/07.
Final Pathology Negative Margins,  Negative Sem. Invasion.
5/15/07, 1st post op PSA negligible <0.1
 
 
 
 


Gene214
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 422
   Posted 5/30/2007 8:37 AM (GMT -7)   

Bill, I have followed your various comments and your first ones that I saw came at a time when I was pretty negative, too.  I hope I did not encourage you in negativity, because I know that is not the answer.  I have had to do what seems best for me at the time and that is using the Bard-Cunningham clamp, a devise that no one on the board recommends because Dr. Walse advises against it.  The only one I know promoting it at this time is my surgeon, whom I feel much like the way you feel about yours.  I wonder if he knows something he's not willing to talk about relative to my surgery.  I can contain absolutely nothing in my bladder and of course can pee absolutely nothing except in the mornings.  He tells me to have patience, too, which is what I (and you) must do at this point.  A close friend of mine said his continence returned to normal suddenly at six months, so that is my hope now, whether it is at six or twelve months, or whenever.  I too have been somewhat discouraged by all the testimonies of success, but I am trying to turn that discouragement into hope. I am glad these other guys are doing better than I.  I wish and pray the best for them. 

Like you, at first I felt I had made a terrible mistake by having the open radical instead of the robotic, but I have found jon this board just about as many with that surgery who has incontinence problems, too. 

Let's make a pact together to keep looking "up" through this.  Although you are a much younger man than I am (I'm now 64), let's get better together, while the people on this board watch us.  They are very supportive and concerned.  And perhaps we can encourage someone else.  By getting interested in someone else other than myself, I seem to do a lot better with my attitude. 

I am, after tomorrow, going to be limited on the computer until I get situated in my new location, but I will get back on this site as soon as possible.  I will see the surgeon tomorrow.  Maybe he will give some new data.  Also, I do want to remain annonomous, but there may be a point when you and I can communicate on a personal level.  If so, we'll have to figure out how we can get personal without the whole world knowing who we are.  In the meantime, do not dispair.  Do not dispair.  Look up to the Creator and Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Gene


Age: 63
First biopsy 07/05;
Diagnosed: "Suspicious looking cells". Dr. says wait and watch.
Second biopsy: 12/27/06
Diagnosed cancer: 01/24/07
Gleason Grade: 3+3=6
Radical Open Nerve-sparing Prostatetomy: 02-14-07
Cancer confined to prostate
Pathology Stage of cancer: T2c
First Post-Op PSA on 04-18-07: 0.011
 
 
 


PianoMan
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 365
   Posted 5/30/2007 1:48 PM (GMT -7)   
Gene: Here's my two cents. Don't hold "at all times" because your muscles will be fatigued at all times. Like anything else, do your exercises consistently -- a few times a day -- but give it a break once in a while, so the muscles can recoup and eventually do their job naturally.
I'm glad you're going to talk to your surgeon.
Best of luck,
Tom

54 years old

PSA = First ever was 9.8 in late Oct. ‘06, two weeks later, 10.1

DRE: Negative

Biopsy results 11/22/06 (6 out of 8 cores positive), both lobes, Gleason 3+3 = 6

Da Vinci Robotic RP surgery, City of Hope, Jan 12, 2007

Post surgery pathology – Organ confined, Gleason still 6, margins clear.

First post-surgery PSA -- Undetectable, 2/20/07


Bill23
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 18
   Posted 5/30/2007 3:41 PM (GMT -7)   

Gene:

OK, I'll hang in there if you will,  we really have no other choice.

I hope your move goes as well as can be expected,  I'll keep you informed of any revelations that might come about as a result of my biofeedback sessions.

Bill

 

 


Age 54,  PSA always 1.5,  jumped to 3.5 in 10/06.
Biopsy 11/06, Stage T1c, Gleason 6 (3+3), 25% in 1 of 12 cores.
Negative Cat Scan, Bone Scan, and DRE.
DaVinci RP 4/2/07, Catheter out 4/9/07.
Final Pathology Negative Margins,  Negative Sem. Invasion.
5/15/07, 1st post op PSA negligible <0.1
 
 
 
 


kw
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 883
   Posted 5/30/2007 8:09 PM (GMT -7)   
Bill23, Your only a little over a month Post OP. I would not be so hard on yourself. Just keep doing the Kegeals as your Dr. wants you to.
I'm almost 8 months Post Op and still using 6 /10 pads a day. If I can deal with it you can too. Atleast the cancer is gone!

KW
    43
    PSA 5.7 - Discovered during Annual Physical with Family Practice Dr.
    Gleason 7
    Biopsy - 3 of 12 positive (up to 75%) all on left side of prostate
    RRP on Oct. 17, 2006 - Nerves on right side saved.
    All Lab's clear.  No Cancer outside prostate
    Cathiter in for 3 weeks due to complications in healing. Removed Nov. 9, 2006
    First Post op PSA on Dec. 11, 2006  Undetectable 0.00
    Office visit on Jan. 19th due to continued excessive urine leakage.
    Feb.20th Cystoscope and 2nd Post Op PSA. Another 0.00.....:)
    Dr. said everything looks fine.  Continue to work Kegeal's. Leaking appears to have improved  after Cystoscope?!?!?!  Down to 3-4 pads per day!
    March 1st  Leaking has crept back up to 6 - 8 pads a day ??????? 
    March 8th Started Detrol LA to see if it helps with the leaking?
    March 29th Collagen injection into sphincter / bladder neck area to control excessive leaking.  Worked for a couple of days then back to leaking.
    April 17th (Six Months Post Op) 2nd Collagen Injection to control excessive leaking.  Leaking started back next day at work!
    May 14th Second Opinion about my leaking and Options at OU Medical Center.  After reviewing my records the Dr. feels I will probably need some surgical intervention to stop my leaking.  But did agree to try Bio-Feedback and work hard on the Kegeal's first!
    May 30th Follow up with my Dr. and 3rd Post Op PSA.
    June 1st Start Bio-Feedback to try to control my leaking.
   


Gene214
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 422
   Posted 5/30/2007 8:39 PM (GMT -7)   

KW, on your profile for May 14, you stated the doctor felt you would need surgical intervention if kegals didn't work.  Would it be the artificial sphincter (with a valve in the scrotum) or would it be the sling... or what?

Gene


Age: 63
First biopsy 07/05;
Diagnosed: "Suspicious looking cells". Dr. says wait and watch.
Second biopsy: 12/27/06
Diagnosed cancer: 01/24/07
Gleason Grade: 3+3=6
Radical Open Nerve-sparing Prostatetomy: 02-14-07
Cancer confined to prostate
Pathology Stage of cancer: T2c
First Post-Op PSA on 04-18-07: 0.011
 
 
 


bluebird
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 2542
   Posted 5/31/2007 5:26 AM (GMT -7)   

Hi ~ Gene & Bill,

Everyone is different…. tongue   Find what works best for you! And most importantly ~ give yourself and your body time to heal.  There are options down the road... and hopefully you won't have to research them.  Better to have the body do the work and if it takes "time"... then allow this time for recover/healing to take place.  Rushing into any other area of help "in our opinion" is not the best thing to do.  

You may have already found the threads below but thought I'd go ahead and attach them..

… Hope this helps you!!

 

Also ~ this paragraph always jumps back to me when there's questions about kegels.

EXCERPT:…..On page 247 of Dr. Walsh’s book he states:

Exercises you can do:  Every time you urinate, do it standing up.  You can’t practice the following exercises, which strengthen the external sphincter and speed up your recovery of urinary control, while you’re sitting down.  Start your stream, and once it’s in full force, stop the stream by contracting the muscles in your buttocks--- not your abdominal muscles, not the muscle “up in front” around the penis.  Tighten your buttocks: imagine you’re trying to hold a quarter between your cheeks.  Hold the urine back for 5 or 10 seconds, and repeat as many times as you can.  Note: Only perform these exercises when you’re urinating; if you keep contracting these muscles throughout the day, you’ll overdo it—the sphincter tires easily—and you’ll end up wetter than you would otherwise.

 

Previous paragraphs address… things to speed up your urinary control.  One is not using any artificial devices…… and certain high blood pressure medication relaxes this muscle so you may need to check with your doctor.

 

(direct links below ~ just click on the title!  Reminder to click on the REFRESH icon once there)

Kegel Help?  Thread by KW / Member

Kegels - to pee or not to pee? Thread by Pianoman

 

In Friendship ~ Lee & Buddy


Bill23
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 18
   Posted 6/1/2007 2:55 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi bluebird:
 
You recently wrote to me and Gene.....
 

EXCERPT:…..On page 247 of Dr. Walsh’s book he states:

Exercises you can do:  Every time you urinate, do it standing up.  You can’t practice the following exercises, which strengthen the external sphincter and speed up your recovery of urinary control, while you’re sitting down.  Start your stream, and once it’s in full force, stop the stream by contracting the muscles in your buttocks--- not your abdominal muscles, not the muscle “up in front” around the penis.  Tighten your buttocks: imagine you’re trying to hold a quarter between your cheeks."

 

Everything I've read specifically states that one should never use the muscles of the abdomen, thighs, or buttocks when kegeling.  Does Walsh differ from this?

 

Thanks...

 

Bill


Age 54,  PSA always 1.5,  jumped to 3.5 in 10/06.
Biopsy 11/06, Stage T1c, Gleason 6 (3+3), 25% in 1 of 12 cores.
Negative Cat Scan, Bone Scan, and DRE.
DaVinci RP 4/2/07, Catheter out 4/9/07.
Final Pathology Negative Margins,  Negative Sem. Invasion.
5/15/07, 1st post op PSA negligible <0.1
 
 
 
 


Cedar Chopper
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 432
   Posted 6/2/2007 3:20 AM (GMT -7)   

Bill, Gene, & Ms. Bluebird Lee,  RE: WHAT ARE THE PELVIC FLOOR MUSCLES?

*******************************

Bluebird wrote:

... this paragraph always jumps back to me when there's questions about kegels.

EXCERPT:…..On page 247 of Dr. Walsh’s book he states:

Exercises you can do:  Every time you urinate, do it standing up.  You can’t practice the following exercises, which strengthen the external sphincter and speed up your recovery of urinary control, while you’re sitting down.  Start your stream, and once it’s in full force, stop the stream by contracting the muscles in your buttocks--- not your abdominal muscles, not the muscle “up in front” around the penis.  Tighten your buttocks: imagine you’re trying to hold a quarter between your cheeks.  Hold the urine back for 5 or 10 seconds, and repeat as many times as you can.  Note: Only perform these exercises when you’re urinating; if you keep contracting these muscles throughout the day, you’ll overdo it—the sphincter tires easily—and you’ll end up wetter than you would otherwise.

 

Previous paragraphs address… things to speed up your urinary control.  One is not using any artificial devices…… and certain high blood pressure medication relaxes this muscle so you may need to check with your doctor.

 
*************************************************
Gene asked Bluebird:
 
You recently wrote to me and Gene.....
 

EXCERPT:…..On page 247 of Dr. Walsh’s book he states:

Exercises you can do:  Every time you urinate, do it standing up.  You can’t practice the following exercises, which strengthen the external sphincter and speed up your recovery of urinary control, while you’re sitting down.  Start your stream, and once it’s in full force, stop the stream by contracting the muscles in your buttocks--- not your abdominal muscles, not the muscle “up in front” around the penis.  Tighten your buttocks: imagine you’re trying to hold a quarter between your cheeks."

 

Everything I've read specifically states that one should never use the muscles of the abdomen, thighs, or buttocks when kegeling.  Does Walsh differ from this?

 

**************************************

Cedar Writes:

My work with my bio-feedback therapist agrees with what Bill says. (..one should never use the muscles of the abdomen, thighs, or buttocks when kegeling..)

However, If you think of the suggestion to "tighten the buttocks" as "contracting the muscles in your buttocks" - that is,  more as a description to get you to tighten the anus sphincter, this is what my bio-feedback therapist teaches as an integral component of the "Pelvic Floor Muscles."

The description she gave was: ".. like you are trying to hold back a fart..."

What I have found in my efforts to control the "kegel sphincter" that we who fight for continence are trying to develop, is that often when I control the passing of gas, I also leak.  This supports tightening the anus as well as the muscles immmediately surrounding the urethra for "Kegeling."

 

As the anus sphincter seems to be the more difficult to learn to control of the pelivc floor muscles, from the teaching point of view, Dr. Walsh's advice  "trying to hold a quarter between your cheeks" , is a helpful approach as it brings the focus of control away from the pelvic floor muscles we seem to think of first - those muscles that immediately surround the urethra that don't work for continence control so well while walking, lifting, coughing, or climbing stairs. 

Note: The last half-power portion of Elevator Kegel reps REALLY helps to learn this anus sphincter control - without tightening the actual buttock muscles.

 

My bio-feedback therapist showed me detailed musculature drawings of the pelvic floor muscles in both men and women.  They wrap around from the anus sphincter to the lower pubis (In women, this area surrounds the vagina.).  She said that another "feeling" that indicates that you are doing the Kegal Exercises correctly is that it feels like you are pulling your testicles up into the pubic cavity.  I only notice this sensation when I am at the peak of my elevator exercises.

 

ICTHUS

 

CCedar



~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*
2 Years of PSA between 4 and 5.5
Biopsy 23DEC06 
Only 5 percent cancer in one of 8 samples.
Gleeson 3+3=6
Radical Prostatectomy 16FEB07 at age 54.
1+" tumor - touching inside edge of gland.
Confined:)
***************
Texas Hill Country
FRESH Produce Department Manager
Have you had your 5 colors today?

Post Edited (Cedar Chopper) : 6/2/2007 4:35:49 AM (GMT-6)


bluebird
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 2542
   Posted 6/11/2007 2:13 PM (GMT -7)   

Hey Bill,

I’m replying a little late… your reply post got by me!!!  I’m here now!!!  tongue

I’m going to highlight the areas that correspond to your question.

 

Quote from Bill:

Everything I've read specifically states that one should never use the muscles of the abdomen, thighs, or buttocks when kegeling.  Does Walsh differ from this?

 

Does Dr. Walsh differ??..... yes he states to use the buttock muscles.

 

 

EXCERPT:…..On page 247 of Dr. Walsh’s book he states:

Exercises you can do:  Every time you urinate, do it standing up.  You can’t practice the following exercises, which strengthen the external sphincter and speed up your recovery of urinary control, while you’re sitting down.  Start your stream, and once it’s in full force, stop the stream by contracting the muscles in your buttocks--- not your abdominal muscles, not the muscle “up in front” around the penis.  Tighten your buttocks: imagine you’re trying to hold a quarter between your cheeks.  Hold the urine back for 5 or 10 seconds, and repeat as many times as you can.  Note: Only perform these exercises when you’re urinating; if you keep contracting these muscles throughout the day, you’ll overdo it—the sphincter tires easily—and you’ll end up wetter than you would otherwise.

 

 

In your posting to drmartin about PSA … I hope the links helped you!!

 

I’m adding this link to Gene’s thread: 

I Know Why I'm Still Incontinent @ 4 months... (bladder neck contracture / scar tissue)

 

This helps to let others know what to be aware of…  Helping others to travel a smooth path!

 

Take care for now.

In Friendship ~ Lee & Buddy


drmartin
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 42
   Posted 6/11/2007 10:49 PM (GMT -7)   
Bill,

You mentioned that you you think your prostate size might be an issue....

My prostate was larger than 120 grams! My doctor is doing some research as to this being a record! He said the size will make a difference in the recovery time for Continence compared to a normal sized prostate. The body has to go through more traumatic changes to accommodate the loss of a large prostate.

But my point is, I leaked as severely as you. I even leaked while laying down, I had to sleep in my recliner for the first three weeks... . ..then at week 4 I started walking building up to 2.25 miles a day and practicing my kegals as i walk. I am now entering my eight week and have noticeable improvement. I was doing 6-8 pads a day and now its down to 3-4 a day.

Yes I still leak when I stand, squat, bend over, lift my legs to put my socks on and sneeze and cough..but only dribbles not streams!

Patience and determination is the key! say to yourself everyday! I WILL WIN!! make yourself believe it! I do!

Every step you take holding your kegal is a win!! every trip to the bathroom holding that kegal is a win!!

Good luck in the never ending battle of PCa,

Your partner in pads,

Dave M.
Age: 52

11/10/2006

PSA 10.2 - Discovered during Annual Physical with Family Doctor

Referred to Urologist Surgeon specialist

Free and total PSA - 10.9

Biopsy ( sent to John Hopkins pathology) - 2 of 16 positive on left and right apex of prostate

Left - GS 3+3=6, Right - GS 3+3=6

Davinci assisted laparoscopy radical prostatectomy on Apr. 17, 2007 -Complications due to extreme unusual size of prostate. Normal Prostate = 20 to 31 grams. Mine = 120 grams (not enlarged, but genetic growth large)

Nerves on right side spared.

All Lab's clear. No Cancer outside prostate

Cystogram Apr. 24 2007- Slight leakage at anastomosi negligible.

Catheter in for 1 week Removed Apr. 24, 2007

May 30th, First post-op PSA results...Non-Detectable!


survivor_wannabee
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 29
   Posted 6/12/2007 5:29 AM (GMT -7)   
This is a great discussion for someone like me that is as of today 2 weeks out of surgery and only 4 days from catheter removal. Thanks so much for posting all of this!
Age: 57
Diagnosed: 3/27/2007
PSA: 4.9
Gleason: 3 + 4
Cancer in 6 out of 12 samples
DRE: Positive
Stage: T2B
RALP Performed: 5/29/07
Partial nerve sparing one side, full on other
Prostate not enlarged, margins visually look good
Hospital stay: about 24 hours
Catheter Out: 6/8/07


MRT
New Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 1
   Posted 6/17/2007 12:58 AM (GMT -7)   
Bill23
 
Just caught up with your email from end of May
At 4 months out from open RP I too still leak almost continously all day if I am not sitting down. Just standing starts it off. Nights are OK & although I get up a couple of times for a pee I am dry in the morning.It seems that what we have is different from straightforward stress incontinence. Currently I am trying the electro magnetic chair 3 times a week but so far no good news. Previously I have done plenty of Kegels & have always been able to stop the flow of urine.
I use pads called "Molicare Mobiles" Super which are like Grandma's knickers but with very good absorbency & I know they will last for at least 4 hours. I haven't seen anyone on this site talk about them. In fact I can get through a whole day using only 2 - 3 pads - they are made in Germany & although more expensive are quite practical & no underpants to worry about.
I would like to hear of your progress
& wishing you all the best
 
Mike
Bill23 said...
Gene:
 
It seems as if you and I are in the same boat.  I'm 2 months post-op,  and leak continuously during the day.  A lot of the guys on this board suffer from the "classic" form of stress incontinence.... which is leakage when coughing,  sneezing,  running,  etc.  While a real pain,  it is not as bad as the continuous leaking I have even when standing perfectly still.  This does not allow my bladder to accumulate any volume whatsoever during the day.... it all comes out in my pads,  which I change up to 15 times a day.
 
As far as your initial question,  I try to hold a kegel as long as I can,  but I must eventually let go,  and everything in my bladder just pours out.  It is truly ruining my life because I have seen zero progress in 2 months.... it is taking a huge toll on my well being because the total lack of any progress is so atypical from most people on this board.
 
Are you able to stop and start the flow in the morning?  I can only slow the flow briefly,   not stop it.  Since the morning is the only time I have a full bladder,  I can only practice this once a day.
 
My prostate was rather large at 60 grams,  so I am fearful that some damage was done to the sphincter or pelvic floor muscles upon removal.  The doc,  of course,  says no but I honestly feel he is feeding me a bunch of BS to cover his rear.  All he knows how to say is "patience and kegels"....  there has to be more to it than that after 2 months.  I started doing kegels weeks before surgery,  and have just started biofeedback lessons,  although the technician says that I have been doing the kegels properly.
 
I'm beginning to regret having the surgery at all.. I spent so much time researching all the procedures and doctors,  in order to make the right choice, only to face the prospect of being a guy in his early 50's living the life of a 90 year old in diapers.
 
Sorry to be so negative,  but this is becoming unbearable.  There are a lot of upbeat,  wonderful people on this board who have offered words of encouragement,  I'm sure you are better off listening to them!! Good luck to you!
 
Bill
 
 

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