Testosterone Revisited

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Pete trips again! Veteran Member Date Joined Nov 2006 Total Posts : 1899	Posted 6/4/2007 12:36 PM (GMT -6)
	Hi Gang, Some of you older posters may remember me but for the newbee's who don't, I'll give y'all the short story. Shortly after my RP almost 4 years ago I became terrably depressed, tired and my libito went down to zero. After seeing my Uro, my regular doc and a couple of shrinks who all suggested anti depressants, I continued to get worse. Nothing helped me untill I had my yearly physical last fall. I told my doc things were not getting any better in fact things were getting so bad I was starting to get suicidal thoughts. After 3 years of this life just sucked! My doc on a wim said he was going to test my testosterone. Bingo! My test came back at 150, almost castration leval. Then the bad news, he said he could not prescribe testosterone for me because of my history of PC!! He then told me it would be like throwing gasoline on a fire because PC feeds on testosterone! It was time to start doing some research on the internet and thats when I found this forum, over 3 years after my RP! There was this nice lady how called herself Simom who said she knew exactly what I was going through because her husband Paul had similar problems and the rest is history. She educated this poor sap and told me to keep looking for a Uro who would prescribe me testosterone and although there are not many out there, there are a few. After a bunch of phone calls and e-mails, I finally met a open minded Uro at an US-TOO meeting here in S.E. Florida. After posing the question to him, he said if he had a patiant like me with my numbers and history, he would consider testosterone replacement theropy if I realized it was risky. I called and made an appointment the next day! That was seven months ago and I have been a different person ever since. The reason I'm bringing all this up now is I just got back my first PSA & second testosteron results since I started and would just like to tell everyone that my long awaited PSA test came back at 0.03 and my testosterone at 305. This was the first PSA test I have sweated about in a long time and I couldn't be happier! (the gasoline thing, remember?) I think my testosterone could be a little higher because I don't feel as good as when I had it tested back in January when it came back at 500+ and my doc told me to cut back on the Testim gel I was using as he wanted me to stay around 300. I don't have another appointment for 6 months and am thinking about uping my T a little on my own as I know my doc will not approve. Swim, what do you think? Afterall I'm still at zero after almost 4 years and seven months of TRT and I just thing I should be able to feel a little better than I do right now and know how to get there. Please if anyone would like to comment or you have any questions, feel free to let them fly! Your friend, Pete PS: I would be a real jerk if I didn't thank all the good people who gave me support and stood by me back when I was in such bad shape. Y'all know who you are! Thanks from the bottom of my heart!!!!!!! 54 years old, Surgury, Radical Prostatectomy 8/20/03, PSA 6.6, Gleason 3 + 3 = 6, Adenocarcinoma extent (moderate) Stage & Margin:T2NOMX, No Metastases, Organ Confined, bone scan: Neg. Testosterone Theropy since 12/06. I am's what I am and that's all that I am!!! Back to Top

bluebird Veteran Member Date Joined May 2006 Total Posts : 2542	Posted 6/4/2007 1:49 PM (GMT -6)
	(Direct Link ~ just click on the title below and a new window will open! *Reminder* … click on the REFRESH icon once you get there) Other Threads Started by: *Pete Pete’s Travel Testosterone Revisited Low testosterone count 2 years after PC surgery ONE WILD RIDE To all my new friends!! Hey ~ Pete,** Great way to start this thread and we like the title!!! I’m going to link it to the old one… so others can see the beginning of your journey. The old thread was locked sooner than normal once it hit page 5!! J mama bluebird chirp~chirp~chirping Back to Top

biker90 Veteran Member Date Joined Nov 2006 Total Posts : 1464	Posted 6/4/2007 3:06 PM (GMT -6)
	Hey Pete, old low T buddy, Nice post and great summary of what low T does to a guy. Also the info on how uros think about T therapy after prostatectomy is valuable to anyone who might be going through this. You just have to take your recovery into your own hands and keep looking for 2nd opinions until you find one who has an open mind. My argument to my uro was that if my T level was say 550 normally without therapy, then why can't it be 550 with T therapy after surgery. They don't do hormone therapy to lower testosterone for T1 or T2 cancers. After my dx in November 06, I seriously considered radiation treatment. It turns out that I would have been stuck with the testosterone problem. I doubt anyone would prescribe T therapy after radiation. So even though I am an old fart, surgery was the right choice for me. So if anyone out there is deciding on their treatment option and has a low testosterone problem they need to consider all the options for T therapy after cancer treatment. I'm doing great since getting back on T shots about 6 weeks ago. My next PSA is on 7/18 and yes, I will sweat it because of the "gasoline" theory. But we have to make choices. Either I become a vegatable on anti-depressant drugs and die miserable or I get to live a happy, near normal life for a while. I'll chose life every time. Best to ya my good friend and please keep us posted... Jim PS Oh yes, Swim saved my life too. She told me exactly what was wrong with me. Gotta love that gal!!! Age 72. Diagnosed 11/03/06. PSA 7.05. Stage T2B Gleason 3+3. RRP 12/7/06. Nerves and nodes okay. Pathological stage: T2B. Gleason 3+4. Cancer confined to prostate. PSA on 1/3/07 - 0.04. PSA on 4/4/07 - 0.00 T level - 48 Restarted T therapy. Next PSA on 7/18/07. "I have cancer but cancer does not have me." Post Edited (biker90) : 6/4/2007 3:34:40 PM (GMT-6) Back to Top

Pete trips again! Veteran Member Date Joined Nov 2006 Total Posts : 1899	Posted 6/5/2007 8:56 AM (GMT -6)
	Thanks Jim & Moma B, I know what you are saying! Why do I have to be at 300 in the morning (when I was tested) when thats when you are at your highest level of the day? What am I at dinner time, 250? I don't feel very good right now and I told the doc that. As you know, we know what the symtoms of low T feel like and thats what I'm feeling now. Granted, not as bad as before I started w/ T replacement but with my PSA test results after 7 months of treatment you would think my doc would let me go a little higher. Don't get me wrong, I apreciate that he is giving it to me at all but I feel like I'm teetering on the edge ready to fall into that deep dark pit again! That is a good point you brought up about desiding on treatment Jim! I never thought of that. You are right, maybe these Uro's should be testing all PC patients for testosterone deficiancy prior to any treatment! Also, more and more guys like me who never had the problem are starting to surface post treatment. I have talked to many on line in Prostate Pointers! I've read that it could be caused by the trama suffered to that area as well as a host of other reasons! Swim knows more about that than us. I really wish more research would be done in this area! Last week I read about a Uro in California who is treating late stage PC patiants with very high doses of testosterone! Can you beleive it? I bought a hard copy to my Uro when I saw him last week and he took one look at it and thew it in the garbage, he wouldn't even read it! Even my "liberal Uro" is close minded! Who knows? Thanks again! Your friend, Pete 54 years old, Surgury, Radical Prostatectomy 8/20/03, PSA 6.6, Gleason 3 + 3 = 6, Adenocarcinoma extent (moderate) Stage & Margin:T2NOMX, No Metastases, Organ Confined, bone scan: Neg. Testosterone Theropy since 12/06. I am's what I am and that's all that I am!!! Back to Top

biker90 Veteran Member Date Joined Nov 2006 Total Posts : 1464	Posted 6/5/2007 11:43 AM (GMT -6)
	Hey Pete, My doc took all my internet research and pitched it too. Didn't want to even consider any point of view except his own. Then he gave me a lecture on "standard of treatment". When he finished I told him that some docs get all bound up "practicing medicine" and lose sight of the patient. Too bad. They don't have any concept of the effects of low T and are only concerned that the cancer does not come back. That is a worthy goal but they need to consider the well being of the patient also. If the decision to go on T therapy means that cancer might come back then that decision is mine, not his. I understand the risks and am willing to bear them in order to have a better life - even if it is shorter. Good luck buddy, Jim Age 72. Diagnosed 11/03/06. PSA 7.05. Stage T2B Gleason 3+3. RRP 12/7/06. Nerves and nodes okay. Pathological stage: T2B. Gleason 3+4. Cancer confined to prostate. PSA on 1/3/07 - 0.04. PSA on 4/4/07 - 0.00 T level - 48 Restarted T therapy. Next PSA on 7/18/07. "I have cancer but cancer does not have me." Back to Top

Pete trips again! Veteran Member Date Joined Nov 2006 Total Posts : 1899	Posted 6/5/2007 12:59 PM (GMT -6)
	Dam right Jim!!!! 54 years old, Surgury, Radical Prostatectomy 8/20/03, PSA 6.6, Gleason 3 + 3 = 6, Adenocarcinoma extent (moderate) Stage & Margin:T2NOMX, No Metastases, Organ Confined, bone scan: Neg. Testosterone Theropy since 12/06. I am's what I am and that's all that I am!!! Back to Top

Swimom Veteran Member Date Joined Apr 2006 Total Posts : 1732	Posted 6/5/2007 9:16 PM (GMT -6)
	Hey guys, Don't give me credit for saving anyone's life. I knew the symptoms of hypogonadism mainly because I've seen them with Paul and knew some of the various causes from researching his situation. The rest was all you! You men had to do the research concerning prostate cancer and testosterone. Ya'll made appointments with a professional for advise. In the same way Paul did, ya'll had to do the work wading through the risks, weighing all of your options in order to make what was undoubtedly, a tough decision. I applaud both of you for being your own advocates. Swim Back to Top

El Tigre Regular Member Date Joined May 2007 Total Posts : 58	Posted 6/5/2007 9:40 PM (GMT -6)
	Both of your stories make me very glad I chose the removal route. No one even mentioned T problems when I was making this choice. I sure do wish I had found this site pre-surgery!! RRP 10/25/05 I don't remember all the scores. Have had clean checks ever since. Never had to use the pads!! Back to Top

Pete trips again! Veteran Member Date Joined Nov 2006 Total Posts : 1899	Posted 6/6/2007 10:11 AM (GMT -6)
	OK Swim, So you didn't save our lives! Jim & I were swimming in the dark, not going under yet, but slowly sinking. Then you came along and threw us a life line and turned on the lights! Did you save us? Maybe ~ maybe not but we would have had a long dark swim if you hadn't come along! And it isn't just Jim and I, you have helped so many people here and the praise you get, weather you like it or not is well deserved! Give yourself a little credit, without your help and guidance, I would have continued to be as the Goverator says "a Girly Man" and I didn't like being a girly man! I still don't, thats why I'm going to take the bull by the horns or in my case horn and up my Testim a little. Being on the brink of girly manhood is not good enough for me! Like Jim said, I'd rather suffer the consiquences than go back there again! Live Strong!! Your Friend, Pete PS: Thanks again Vic!! 54 years old, Surgury, Radical Prostatectomy 8/20/03, PSA 6.6, Gleason 3 + 3 = 6, Adenocarcinoma extent (moderate) Stage & Margin:T2NOMX, No Metastases, Organ Confined, bone scan: Neg. Testosterone Theropy since 12/06. I am's what I am and that's all that I am!!! Back to Top

Swimom Veteran Member Date Joined Apr 2006 Total Posts : 1732	Posted 6/6/2007 4:14 PM (GMT -6)
	Pete, You could up your Testim (not sure what your using right now) but please, ask your Doc to run a simple estrodiol and free T. IF, there is too much of your T turning to E, the problem may be resolved in a different way. It may be that your level is being affected by an estrogen dominance.....a common affect. If that were the case, raising your T dose alone won't do what you're hoping for. If I'm going to toss a ring out I may as well do it right, eh? LOL :>) Take care, swim Back to Top

M. Kat Veteran Member Date Joined Jul 2006 Total Posts : 715	Posted 6/7/2007 5:19 AM (GMT -6)
	hey everyone - that is what I love about this site. we have such sharing, giving and taking, that most of us don't get from our doctors. God bless all of you! kat Husband Jeff 56 years old diagnosed July 27, 2006 PSA 6.5, 2 positive areas in biopsy, Gleason 3+3=6 Radical Retropubic Prostatectomy August 30, 2006 pathology report - all clear - cancer gone 1st post-surgery PSA test <0.1, 2nd post-surgery PSA test <0.1, 3rd PSA <0.1 no more pads Oct 12, 2006 first "real" erection with use of pump 12/16/06 3/07 - occasional dribbles and erections with Cialis and pump Back to Top

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