A Dry Christmas (Accupuncture for Incontinence follow-up)

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loupdemer
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 12/5/2007 2:45 AM (GMT -6)   
I started accupunture treatments for incontinence today.

Anyone have experience to share with this treatment?

I was talked into it by my partner, who is Chinese and has been a patient of this Chinese Medicine doctor for several years. I will report on the results, if any, of the treatment as it progresses. I'll be going twice a week.

One factor that may make judging the effectiveness less clear-cut is that, I was already noticing a marked improvement since last Saturday. It may be hard to tell if any future improvement is due to the accupuncture, or would have happened on its own with normal healing, kegels, and the passage of time.

As far as the accupuncture goes, I figured there is no risk or side effects, so why not try it. The accupuncturist directed me to lie down on the treatment table. He inserted two or three needles into my abdomen. They are supposed to be positioned on the midline, but he had to offset them slightly to avoid my surgical incision. He also inserted one or two into each leg. One of those smarted a little, as it felt like he hit a nerve. The others I could hardly feel at all. The needles are as thin as a human hair. They are disposable, so there's no risk of infection. And the tiny twinge of pain is a thousand times less than getting a shot, say, or having an IV inserted.

I'm no expert, so I won't try to explain accupuncture. Anyone can google it. I'll just say that it seems to me the Chinese notion of a network of "life energy" called Chi in the body is very likely a pre-scientific understanding of the bioelectric impulses of the central nervous system. My treatment, as it's explained to me, aims to stimulate the neural pathways leading to the nerves that control bladder function. Not so far-fetched when you consider that's how the Kegels are supposed to work, too.

Anyway, I don't want to make too much of this yet, but the wetting in my last pad today was VERY light, after going out for dinner followed by a longish walk. This evening at home I went without a pad altogether, which is a first. True, we just lounged around and watched a DVD, but I didn't spill a drop when getting up to go to the kitchen occasionally and later when getting ready for bed.

However, this condition does have its ups and downs. I have had days of heavy leaking following a day or two of apparent improvement. So I'm holding out for a consistent trend over several days before I get my hopes up. My next accupuncture session is on Friday.

Keep ya posted.

ldm
============================
JAN 2007 Positive DRE at age 47, PSA 2.5
21 MAR 2007 Biopsy

01 APR 2007: DIAGNOSIS
2 of 9 cores positive, Gleason 7 (3+4), stage T2a, focus of perinerual involvement, 10mm of tumor in each 12mm core that was positive.

AUG 2007 PSA 3.3

24 SEP 2007 open Radical Prostatectomy, Bilateral nerve sparing
Surgeon: Dr. Martin Gleave, The Prostate Center at Vancouver General Hospital, Vancouver, Canada

Post-op Day 2 (26 SEP) HOME FROM HOSPITAL
Day 6: Bowel movements resume, causing painful bladder spasms, Dr. will not prescribe anti-spasmodic

Day 8: CATHETER REMOVED
Totally incontinent, began Cialis (20 mg 3/week)
Day 9: Partial erection
Day 11: Nealy normal erection

Day 12: PATHOLOGY
Negative margins, Gleason 7 (3+4), Stage T3 (microsopic cancerous invasion of tissues outside the prostate)

Week 3: Dry when lying or sitting - stopped wearing Depends in bed.
Week 4: Normal erections on demand. Suspended taking Cialis. Some urine leakage and soreness with orgasm.
Week 5: Difficult to achieve erection, resumed Cialis but only twice a week (20mg)

Week 8:
Normal sexual function with Cialis twice a week.
Still incontinent when walking or otherwise active on my feet.
Urine leakage during orgasm has stopped -- still some soreness with orgasm

Week 11: Beginning accupuncture treatments for incontinence.

Post Edited (loupdemer) : 1/9/2008 12:00:06 AM (GMT-7)


Berb
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 93
   Posted 12/6/2007 1:54 PM (GMT -6)   
(My apologies everyone- I hit the New Post button instead of Reply and this post appears as a No Subject one separately - here it is where it should have been posted - Berb).

I have commenced a course of weekly acupuncture treatments as part of my plan to explore all options prior to getting an artificial sphincter. 11 month post surgery still using 9 pads a day (was 6-7 but currently worse following dilation 6 weeks ago). I've had 2 acupuncture sessions so far and it's too early to see results.

Berb

59 years old
Da Vinci surgery Jan 10, 2007, nerves spared, no cancer detected outside prostate
Pre surgery PSA 8, Gleeson 3+4=7, T1C, 3 out of 12 biopsies had cancer
Complication 1: urine favoured drain tube over catheter, extra time in hospital, catheter in for 2 weeks
Complication 2 - urinary tract infection - Citrobacter (hospital bug), 6 weeks antibiotics cleared up
Complication 3 - fungal growth on genitals (candida albicans) probably from antibiotics
Post surgery PSA tests: all undetectable
Incontinence (as at Aug'07): no pad changes at night, 8 pads per day, diagnosed bladder neck stenosis

 

 

Post edited to add information below:

 

Berb ~ I’ve taken the liberty to go in and give your thread a title!

Acupuncture treatment for incontinence 

 

It is so important to have as much information as possible…

Please let us know on your thread… how things go for you!

v        bluebird ~  Moderator for Prostate Cancer Forum

Post Edited By Moderator (bluebird) : 1/7/2008 7:34:28 PM (GMT-7)


kw
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 883
   Posted 12/6/2007 9:35 PM (GMT -6)   
I just got a name of a accupuncturist today from my chiropractor. I am going to give it a try too. I figure it can't hurt! 14 Months Post Op and still using 4-6 FULL pads a day.
Just not ready to give in to the AUS at 44yrs just yet!!!

Good Luck Guys!!!
KW
    43
    PSA 5.7 - Discovered during Annual Physical with Family Practice Dr.
        Biopsy Sept. 27, 2006 - Diagnosis Sept. 29 - 3 of 12 positive (up to 75%) all on left side of prostate, Gleason 7
        RRP on Oct. 17, - Nerves on right side saved.
    All Lab's clear.  No Cancer outside prostate
    Cathiter in for 28 days due to complications in healing. Removed Nov. 9, 2006
    First Post op PSA on Dec. 11, 2006  Undetectable 0.00
    Office visit on Jan. 19th due to continued excessive urine leakage.
    Feb.20th Cystoscope and 2nd Post Op PSA. Another 0.00.....:)
    Dr. said everything looks fine.  Continue to work Kegeal's. Leaking appears to have improved  after Cystoscope?!?!?!  Down to 3-4 pads per day!
    March 1st  Leaking has crept back up to 6 - 8 pads a day ??????? 
    March 29th Collagen injection into sphincter / bladder neck area to control excessive leaking.  Worked for a couple of days then back to leaking.
    April 17th (Six Months Post Op) 2nd Collagen Injection to control excessive leaking.  Leaking started back next day at work!
    May 14th Second Opinion about my leaking and Options at OU Medical Center.  After reviewing my records the Dr. feels I will probably need some surgical intervention to stop my leaking.  But did agree to try Bio-Feedback and work hard on the Kegeal's first!
    May 30th Follow up with my Dr. and 3rd Post Op PSA 0.00 agian!!!
    June 1st Start Bio-Feedback to try to control my leaking.
    Oct 17, 2007 1 year Post Op - Still fighting moderate / Severe incontenance. Using 4-6 pads a day.  Erections usable....sometimes!  Almost like before with 100mg Viagra!
   


bluebird
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 2542
   Posted 1/7/2008 9:29 PM (GMT -6)   

tongue  Hey ldm,

Let us know how things are going!!!  This is an important thread... so please stay close. 

In Friendship ~ Lee & Buddy

 


loupdemer
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 1/9/2008 1:50 AM (GMT -6)   
The best Christmas gift at our house this year was my announcement on Christmas morning that my pads had been almost dry for the previous three days, and that I felt I could soon ditch them. This was at 13 weeks post-op. By the end of Week 14, I was pad-free, and remain so at the end of Week 15.

Today, I also got the result of my first post-op PSA: Undetectable. As you may imagine, there is much joy in our home today.

On New Years day I returned for the first time to my great passion in life: SAILING! My partner and I joined some friends on their yacht for a morning sail, and then brunch while at anchor, watching the annual Polar Bear Swim at English Bay Beach in Vancouver. We cheered as 2000 zany, freezing people took the plunge in 5-degree (C) water.

As a precaution, I did wear a pad that day, anticipating the high level of physical activity might cause some leakage. The pad was a bit wet at the end of the day, enough that I'm glad I wore it. I also wore one when dressed up for the symphony or theater on a couple of occasions. But with my continued improvement, I don't think I would bother with that now. I would only wear a pad now if I expected to be very physically active: lifting things, pulling on ropes, climbing around (as on a sailboat).

So, did the acupuncture help? Well, this dramatic improvement came during the third week of treatment, so maybe it did. I went from 2-4 pads daily to pad-free in the span of a week. Would this have happened anyway at this point in my recovery, without the acupuncture? There's simply no way to know, is there? From what I've heard, for many men who do regain control on their own, it tends to happen between 12-15 weeks post-op.

A few notes on acupuncture: My partner urged me to stress that it's important to seek out a qualified practitioner. The one I go to has years of training in China, and is a licensed Chinese Medicine practitioner here in Canada. I don't know if such licensing exists in the states.

When I started treatments, we decided I should go three times a week, instead of two. At each treatment, he has inserted needles at two points on each leg, and two in the abdomen. I've been paying $50 per treatment. He has also given Korean ginseng pills to take twice a day.

If you're interested in contacting my acupuncturist with any questions, here's his number. (Though I warn you, his English isn't great.)

Dr. Han-Chen Shih
Vancouver, Canada

(edit)

 

Post edited …  masked phone #  contact Prostate Cancer Moderators  for information

                                                                                             click on link

Post Edited By Moderator (bluebird) : 1/9/2008 4:27:07 PM (GMT-7)


Berb
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 93
   Posted 1/9/2008 3:39 AM (GMT -6)   

Hi Loupdemer, Chas, KW and others.

I've just completed 7 weeks of acupuncture with no results at all.  The acupuncturist is Chinese and both a medical doctor and a qualified acupuncturist. 

Tomorrow is exactly 12 months since my operation.  There has been no improvement in my continence from around May last year when I was able to go through the night without having to change pads.  I currently use around 8-9 a day.  I've been advised that I will not recover continence at this point, and should consider an artificial sphincter. 

Berb


59 years old
Da Vinci surgery Jan 10, 2007, nerves spared, no cancer detected outside prostate
Pre surgery PSA 8, Gleeson 3+4=7, T1C, 3 out of 12 biopsies had cancer
Complication 1: urine favoured drain tube over catheter, extra time in hospital, catheter in for 2 weeks
Complication 2 - urinary tract infection - Citrobacter (hospital bug), 6 weeks antibiotics cleared up
Complication 3 - fungal growth on genitals (candida albicans) probably from antibiotics
Aug'07 Urodynamic study for continuing incontinence 8 pads per day; diagnosed bladder neck stenosis
Oct'07 CT scan indicated nothing abnormal; cystoscopy showed narrowing at anastimosis - dialated
Dec 07 averaging 9 pads a day, started acupuncture
Post surgery PSA tests: all undetectable


biker90
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 1464
   Posted 1/9/2008 2:40 PM (GMT -6)   
Congrats Loupdemer on the zero PSA and getting dry. If acupunture works then more power to all who try it. Any port in a storm...

Jim
Age 73. Diagnosed 11/03/06. PSA 7.05. Stage T2C Gleason 3+3.
RRP 12/7/06. Nerves and nodes okay.
Catheter out on 12/13/06.  Dry on 12/14/06.
Pathological stage: T2C. Gleason 3+4. Cancer confined to prostate.
PSAs from  1/3/07 - 10/17/07 0.00. 
Next PSA test on 1/15/08
 
"Patience is essential, attitude is everything."
 


bluebird
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 2542
   Posted 1/9/2008 6:20 PM (GMT -6)   

  cool   Hey ~ ldm,

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to update your signature in the 1st posting… which helps all of us continue to follow Your Journey…. get that new PSA in the update : )

 

Sharing your “great” news about the acupuncture treatment and your PSA is much appreciated!

 

I will need to mask the phone# for your doctor but will make it available to any member who wishes to contact one of us @  Prostate Cancer Moderators

 

 

 

tongue  Yea!! loupdemer

 

PSA  !!!~~~>>>  Woo~Hoo <<<~~~!!! undetectable

 

Cause for celebration!!!!!  Definitely!!!

What a wonderful day it is ~ each and every-day….   

Enjoy it to the fullest. 

 

In Friendship ~ Lee & Buddy

*     *     *     *     *     *

The ultimate “goal”… we all strive for… Thank you for sharing!

It is very important to “all ”of us!  This is a way of positive feedback…

A way of showing others Hope… and a way of Sharing.

 

J  Caring is Sharing ~  Thank You for Sharing  J

 


kw
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 883
   Posted 1/9/2008 9:24 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey Loud, Glad things cleared up for you.
Berb, I'm at 15 months and was told basicly the same thing at 10 month by my incontenance Dr. But, I'm going to see a accpunctrue Dr. on Saturday for my first session. What do I have to loose at this point! If we ahve to go the AUS route....then that is what we have to do!

Hang in there Berb.

KW
    43
    PSA 5.7 - Discovered during Annual Physical with Family Practice Dr.
        Biopsy Sept. 27, 2006 - Diagnosis Sept. 29 - 3 of 12 positive (up to 75%) all on left side of prostate, Gleason 7
        RRP on Oct. 17, - Nerves on right side saved.
    All Lab's clear.  No Cancer outside prostate
    Cathiter in for 28 days due to complications in healing. Removed Nov. 9, 2006
    First Post op PSA on Dec. 11, 2006  Undetectable 0.00
    Office visit on Jan. 19th due to continued excessive urine leakage.
    Feb.20th Cystoscope and 2nd Post Op PSA. Another 0.00.....:)
    Dr. said everything looks fine.  Continue to work Kegeal's. Leaking appears to have improved  after Cystoscope?!?!?!  Down to 3-4 pads per day!
    March 1st  Leaking has crept back up to 6 - 8 pads a day ??????? 
    March 29th Collagen injection into sphincter / bladder neck area to control excessive leaking.  Worked for a couple of days then back to leaking.
    April 17th (Six Months Post Op) 2nd Collagen Injection to control excessive leaking.  Leaking started back next day at work!
    May 14th Second Opinion about my leaking and Options at OU Medical Center.  After reviewing my records the Dr. feels I will probably need some surgical intervention to stop my leaking.  But did agree to try Bio-Feedback and work hard on the Kegeal's first!
    May 30th Follow up with my Dr. and 3rd Post Op PSA 0.00 agian!!!
    June 1st Start Bio-Feedback to try to control my leaking.
    Oct 17, 2007 1 year Post Op - Still fighting moderate / Severe incontenance. Using 4-6 pads a day.  Erections usable....sometimes!  Almost like before with 100mg Viagra!
    December 5th, 4th post op PSA 0.01!?!?!?   Is that still a 0?  Still leaking!!!!
   


loupdemer
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 1/10/2008 2:18 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the encouragement, folks. KW, I'm so sorry you're still dealing with this BS at 12 months. I can imagine the frustration.

As for my progress:
Since my last post there has been further improvement. Today I went without even the occasional minor drip or drop, for example when standing after being seated for a while. In fact, today it occurred to me that for the first time, I was going for long chunks of the day without even thinking or worrying about it. As close as I've come to feeling completely normal since the operation 15 weeks ago.

Now, as I wrote before, I realize that this is the time when a lot of guys do regain control, between 12 and 16 weeks. But to have such a dramatic improvement over the course of one week, and just three weeks after starting acupuncture, one has to think that the acupuncture might have helped.

Would be very interesting to see if any of our other members has a similar experience.

Best to all,
loup

zoot1
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 14
   Posted 1/7/2010 10:17 PM (GMT -6)   
I started acupuncture at 8 weeks (5-8 pads a day), and am 98% dry today at 12 weeks. Again, no real scientific proof...
Funny thing happened at my first appointment, though. I got up from the table after a half an hour of the needle therapy, went to the mens room, and...voila! Like a garden hose! It never really happened again after that, but for some reason I peed like I used to YEARS ago, before the enlarged prostate limited the flow.
I guess for now, I'm a believer.
>52 years old, dad had PC at 72 (now 84 and going strong), treated with seed implants and radiation with great success.
>4.1 PSA at annual physical, 7/09/09.
>Visit to urologist, second PSA of 4.7.
>Biopsy, 8/19, back to urologist 8/24 to hear the awesome
news that a prostatectomy is recommended. Homework done (with RN wife),
RP scheduled for 9/24.
>Uneventful surgery save for a UTI and H1N1 setting my recovery back a bit. No involvement beyond the prostate, nerves not spared.
>I am now 3 months post-op, second PSA at 0.1, and just this week celebrating dry pads. I'll still wear them for obvious reasons, but I think I'm just about there. I started acupuncture therapy at about 8 weeks; no concrete evidence that it worked, but I expected incontinence to go on for a few more months. I'll give the doc partial credit...
>ED basically what it was before this whole mess. Not good.
>I must remember to request my chart from the doc to fill in some missing info; Gleason number, prostate size and such...
>No complaints really, it certainly could have gone much worse!


tatt2man
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 2845
   Posted 1/8/2010 4:36 AM (GMT -6)   
loupdemer
- thank you for such an interesting and informative thread - even though I have not experienced accupuncture, I have had family friends and relatives use this method as a mean of realigning nerve pathways damaged by surgery, abuse, trying to quit smoking , etc....

-it makes sense that as we regenerate nerves and nerve pathways, the addition of an accupuncture healer would help guide things in the right direction.
-thanks for the reminder of potential timeline - .. some men regain control 12-15 weeks after surgery... patience is a virtue -

- I am accepting certain facts so that I let my body due its own thing as I heal up and realign myself - such as lack of sleep or change of sleep pattern - so what if I get up at 4am to change the guard/pad - I go back to sleep in my 2nd floor spare room ( closer to bathroom - so not to wake my partner on our third floor bedroom) - so what if I have stress incontinence - just have to retrain myself to kegel before standing - stand still for a few seconds and then walk to the bathroom if needed - if I stand up and start walking right away - I leak like a seive ... but I digress (and it is 4:30 am) ... back to nap -

-will look into this today on the web - today's project -

thanks
hugs
BRONSON
.............
Age: 54 - openly gay - with common-law spouse of 13 years, Steve - 59
.................
PSA: 04/2007- 1.68 - 08/2009 - 3.46 - 10/2009 - 3.86
Biospies: October 8, 2009 - 12 specimens taken rectally
Confirmation of Prostate Cancer: October 16, 2009 - 6 of 12 cancerous, Gleason 7 (4+3)
Doctor: Dr. Mohamed Elharram -Urologist / Surgeon - Peterborough Regional Health Centre
Radical Prostatectomy Operation: November 18, 2009 , home - November 21, 2009
Catheter: in November 18 - out December 8, 2009
Incontinence: Life brand - Male Guards - extra absorbant - one for day - one for night - stress incontinence
Incontinence Exercises: standing Kegel excercises - pelvic thrust (ala Rocky Horror Show Time Warp Dance) 20 reps x 5 times daily
Post Surgery Biopsy: pT3a- gleason 7 - extraprostatic extension - perineural invasion - prostate weight - 34.1gm - see doc in three months for next PSA
Post Surgery PSA: - to be done April 2010
ED:- some difficulty before surgery - able to climax - not much width gain - no length gain
ED Therapy: use of water-based Bathmate pump - irritation of scrotum - base of willie
ED Prescription: jan 8/2010 - started daily 5mg cialis willie wehabilitation -
...........
location: Peteborough, Ontario, Canada
............


Modelshipwright
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 215
   Posted 1/8/2010 8:02 AM (GMT -6)   
I have used accupuncture in the past for tennis elbow and headaches with success. Hope you have a positive result.

Regards,
Bill

Arnie
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 374
   Posted 1/8/2010 8:52 AM (GMT -6)   
Interesting thread guys..............which begs the question: has anyone tried accupuncture for remedying ED? I, personally, have never tried accupunture for anything, though I believe it has merit, and anecdotally has provided relief to many for various ailments/conditions. Certainly if it provides healing along the nerve paths, one could see how it might help in this area as well. Accupuncture for ED...........anyone?
 
Arnie in DE
Age 56 (biopsy & surgery)
PSA at Diagnosis-3.9
Biposy 8/19/08--4 of 12 cores positive; 5% involvement, Gleason 6 (3+3)
 
Surgery 1/26/09-DaVinci Robotic Prostatectomy at Presbyterian Medical Center/HUP-Phila, PA
Dr. David Lee
 
Pathology Report- Adenocarcinoma, no capsular involvement, seminal vesicles clear, lymph nodes clear, negative margins, Gleason 7 (3+4), Stage T2C, NO MX, Prostate 61.8 grams, gland involvement 2-10%
 
Catheter removed after 8 days, totally dry at 3 months. ED issues continue, Viagra (via ADC) nightly (100mgs), VED use in earnest at 6 months. "Ball Park Frank" plumping at this point......ED at 10 months continues to improve, albeit slowly. Continued daily use of 100mg Viagra (ADC). Discontinued pump use; manual stimulation to varying states of erections; achieved penetratable erection on a couple of occasions
3 month PSA--<0.1
6 month PSA--<0.1
10 month PSA--<0.1


Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3739
   Posted 1/8/2010 9:11 AM (GMT -6)   
The only "acupuncture" I have seen here for ED uses needles loaded with Trimix or bimix and guys swear by it.
I looked at later posts for some of the guys mentioned here in 2007 and 2008 and see that at least a couple of them ended up having AUS installed.
Jeff

Arnie
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 374
   Posted 1/8/2010 9:16 AM (GMT -6)   

Jeff..........I was asking for that, wasn't I? it was set up nice and high on the tee for you to hit! :-)...........so, aside from the Trimix/Bimix accupuncture treatments, any accounts of "regular" accupuncture?

Arnie in DE

 


Worried Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3739
   Posted 1/8/2010 9:41 AM (GMT -6)   
Arnie,
Sorry, I could not resist. It was just too perfect to let slide.

I did do some homework on the incontinence issue though. Two of the guys mentioned here who tried Accupuncture in early 2008 ended up getting AUS (I don't feel I have the right to say who - that is their option. )
Jeff
DX Age 56. First routine PSA test on April 8th: 17.8. Start 2 weeks of Cipro to rule out protatitis.
May PSA: 22.6, 3 weeks later: PSA: 23.2.
Biopsy 6/10/09: 7/12 scores positive, Gleason 6=3+3. Bone scan and C/T scan negative.
RP DaVinci -7/21/2009 @ Univ of Roch Medical Center
Left nerve gone, right partial spared.
Catheter removed - 7/31/2009 Pathology report received:
Gleason 3+4=7, Tumor size: 2.5 x 1.8 cm, location: both lobes and apex.
Extraprostatic extension present; Perineural invasion: present, extensive.
No Malignancy in Seminal Vesicle, vasa deferentia, lymph nodes 0/13
Prostate mass 56 grams. Pathologic Stage: pT3aN0MX
Post Surgery Status:
Potency - 12/11 5 months, Still no activity, zip. Using pump daily since 11/11. No effect with 20 mg of Cialis or 100 mg of Viagra. Shots next?
Incontinence - 8/20 4 full pads per day
.. 9/7 3-4 full pads per day (I'm going to try cutting down on fluids. Bad idea. I know.)
. 9/27 2 months: Still 3 pads per day.
11/14 4 months: Still 3 pads per day. 420ml/day, 91 um leak.
12/11 5 months: Still 3 pads per day. 400-450ml/day Experimenting with Nyquil for 10 days: Can sleep through the night but withdrawal is bad. Stopped 12/20.
Post Surgery PSA - 9/3 6 weeks - 0.05; 10/13 3 months - 0.04 undetectable.


qjenxu
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 187
   Posted 1/8/2010 9:44 AM (GMT -6)   
I do believe in Chinese medicine. however, it is very hard to find a really good chinese medicine doctor in USA here. many of them not nearly half good as the ones in China. if you need a good chinese medicine, go to China.

Just like taiji, i would laugh at those amician taiji teacher here because what they doing are totally wrong. I could tell the difference between real or fake taiji or kungfu.

lifeguyd
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 686
   Posted 1/8/2010 10:31 AM (GMT -6)   
qjenxu said...
I do believe in Chinese medicine. however, it is very hard to find a really good chinese medicine doctor in USA here. many of them not nearly half good as the ones in China. if you need a good chinese medicine, go to China.

Just like taiji, i would laugh at those amician taiji teacher here because what they doing are totally wrong. I could tell the difference between real or fake taiji or kungfu.
As I have commented in the past, acupuncture and herbs can often have positive effect on many health problems.  My daughter is a graduate of OCOM (Oregon College of Oriental Medicine), she was tested and certified by the state of Oregon to practice 'Chinese Medicine', many of here fellow students are already MD's and other certified medical professionals. She and her fellow professionals have a strong commitment to better health.  Most states have stringent requirments for practioners and licensing. Look for the designation" LAc " after their name.  Licensed Acupuncturist.
 
I agree that the best practioners may be in China, (because there are so many of them),  but the US has it's share of excellent doctors too. Like any specialty, there are great good and not so good ( just like urologists).
 
Remember, that nothing works for everone so give it a try and hope for success.  However, if it doesn't work then keep trying other things.  Our bodies are all a little bit different and respond in different ways.
PSA up to 4.7 July 2006 , nodule noted during DRE
Biopsy 10/16/06 ,stageT2A
Very Aggressive Gleason 4+4=8  right side
DaVinci Surgery  January 2007
Post op confirms gleason 4+4=8 with no extension or invasion
no long term continence problems
Post surgery PSA continues to be "undetectable"
One side nerves spared
Bi-Mix for ED 
born in 1941


qjenxu
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 187
   Posted 1/8/2010 2:29 PM (GMT -6)   
i am very glad that loupdemer can get his improvement through Chinese medicine, and happy that anyone could benifit from Chineae medicine. I am a big fan of it. I never met or contact any Chinese medicine doctor in USA so I don't know how good they are or, how well they fulfill Americans patients needs. i don' want offend any Chinese medicine doctors here. what i know for the past 3 decade, even in China, in Chinese medicine field, young generation already lost big portion of the Chinese medicine experiences. from my aspect, a Chinese medicine doctor has to read very well of Chinese language and knowing the culture and perspective of Chinese medicine. for example, a experienced Chinese medicine doctor looking to my eyes for 5 second, telling me that I have gallstone, which i already knew that i have those stone, or he put his three fingers on my wrist to feel my pause, telling me that i was pregnant. these are just very shallow couple example, not even mention how they treat one's sickness. I couldn't explain more.

I truly wish that good Chinese medicine would get back what it used to be and combine with western medicine to let patient have more options and treatment to choose from.

zoot1
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 14
   Posted 1/8/2010 4:52 PM (GMT -6)   
Although I am now continent (first full padless day!!), I am continuing to visit the acupuncturist to address the ED problem. My thought was that I would have no "luck" for at least a year, possibly two or more (I had ED issues for three years before surgery). I came to this conclusion mostly from reading many of the HW threads over the past few weeks, so it's certainly not very scientific. I will be sure to let you know how it goes.
My wife, although very supportive during the past few months, has informed me that she really doesn't care what the outcome is. She's trying to be helpful and not add any more pressure than there already is, but it really takes away some of the incentive! Conversely, I'm glad I don't have a partner with "needs" I can't fulfill, that would be much harder to deal with.
>52 years old, dad had PC at 72 (now 84 and going strong), treated with seed implants and radiation with great success.
>4.1 PSA at annual physical, 7/09/09.
>Visit to urologist, second PSA of 4.7.
>Biopsy, 8/19, back to urologist 8/24 to hear the awesome
news that a prostatectomy is recommended. Homework done (with RN wife),
RP scheduled for 9/24.
>Uneventful surgery save for a UTI and H1N1 setting my recovery back a bit. No involvement beyond the prostate, nerves not spared.
>I am now 3 months post-op, second PSA at 0.1, and just this week celebrating dry pads. I'll still wear them for obvious reasons, but I think I'm just about there. I started acupuncture therapy at about 8 weeks; no concrete evidence that it worked, but I expected incontinence to go on for a few more months. I'll give the doc partial credit...
>ED basically what it was before this whole mess. Not good.
>I must remember to request my chart from the doc to fill in some missing info; Gleason number, prostate size and such...
>No complaints really, it certainly could have gone much worse!

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