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Hashimotos Antibodies

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Thyroid Disorders
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Raediance
New Member
Joined : May 2015
Posts : 9
Posted 5/5/2015 7:54 PM (GMT -8)
I've had thyroid nodules since 1994 and began taking Synthroid for a few years in order to shrink them.
Once they shrunk my endocrinologist said that I can either stop taking Synthroid or keep taking it but should the nodules come back Synthroid would not shrink them again. I chose to stop taking it and the nodules returned. about 10 years ago I was told that I had Hashimotos antibodies but did not have the disease.
Now I supposedly have Hashimotos disease. What does the test show when you actually have Hashimotos disease?
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hypoHashi
Veteran Member
Joined : Jul 2012
Posts : 801
Posted 5/5/2015 10:00 PM (GMT -8)
Hello and welcome,
If you have hashimoto then you have it for life, so if you need the synthroid (if you have hypothyroidism due to the presence of the antibodies, which attack your thyroid and causing it to work overtime) then I can't understand why your doctor ordered you to stop it.

If the nodules have returned then it does not matter whether it is the first time you have them or the second, the same rule will hold, in third of the cases they will shrink with Levo, in third they will remain the same and in third they will grow.

Do you have a TSH test result to share with us ?

I hop this helps clarify things for you,
Best
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trader758
Veteran Member
Joined : Aug 2014
Posts : 752
Posted 5/6/2015 7:30 AM (GMT -8)
Raediance,

If you had Hashimotos antibodies you have Hashimotos disease. Hashimotos is an autoimmune disease, not a thyroid disease, although the disease will attack and eventually kill your thyroid. Since you know you have nodules, and that theyve grown, im sure youve had an ultrasound scan. Did you have a fine needle biopsy of your nodules? If not you should to see if they are cancerous.

Due to the nature of Hashimotos, the majority of doctors will keep you on thyroid replacement therapy. By keeping you on thyroid medication you boost your immune system which will help fight off the Hashimotos attack by giving your body a constant supply of thyroid hormone. Relying on your own thyroid without the aid of medication can prolong periods of attack due to the erratic hormone levels your thyroid would be making, due to thyroid die off.

Since youre not on thyroid medication, you need to do a full thyroid panel to get your current stats which you will use as a baseline to form a comprehensive plan to deal with your disease, get it under control, and help stop future problems down the road. As an autoimmune disease, left untreated or improperly treated, Hashimotos will continue to not only destroy your thyroid, but lower your immune system which will open the door to more autoimmune diseases and put you at greater risk for heart attack, stroke, diabetes,,etc...

You need....
TSH
Free T4
Free T3
Reverse T3
TPO
TgAb

It would also be a good idea to get all vitamins and minerals tested also. If youre deficient in any, it would be a great idea to get those levels back up to help your immune system deal with Hashimotos. You can also start supplementing with Selenium which can lower Hashimotos antibodies. Theres also a strong link between Hashimotos and Celiacs disease. You should be tested for Celiacs. Even if you dont have Celiacs, you can cut gluten from your diet. The gluten protein called gliadin closely resembles proteins/tissue of the thyroid. Eliminating gluten can lower Hashimotos antibodies.

You need to have a long talk with your doctor. Or, in my opinion, find another doctor. Your doctor was completely wrong about Hashimotos. Either you have it, or you dont. And you obviously do. And you will for life, as there is no cure. Good luck, I wish you the best.
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Raediance
New Member
Joined : May 2015
Posts : 9
Posted 5/6/2015 5:57 PM (GMT -8)
Thanks for your replies! I had a biopsy on 4/20/15 and it was negative. The doctor that said I had Hashimotos antibodies was at the University of Chicago hospital and I am no longer a patient there. That was in the late 90's. I have removed gluten from my diet before and felt so much better. Less fatigue, etc. As soon as I eat something with gluten I start feeling bad again. So I guess it would be safe to say that I must have some sort of gluten sensitivity.
Also, on 3/30/15 I had various test ran.

Here are the results of some of the tests.

Thyroid Peroxidase Ab >900
Free T3 2.9
T3 Hormone 105
T4 (Thyroxine) TOTAL 7.1
FREE T4 0.9
TSH 5.0
Vitamin D (total) 27
Vitamin D3 16
Vitamin D2 11

Are there any test that perhaps I should have taken that were missed?
Thanks for the information on the Selenium. I am ordering that today.

Post Edited (Raediance) : 5/6/2015 8:05:46 PM (GMT-6)

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Raediance
New Member
Joined : May 2015
Posts : 9
Posted 5/6/2015 6:04 PM (GMT -8)
P.S. My primary care physician put me on Armour Thyroid but when I went to the endocrinologist I was put on Synthroid instead. For some reason Armour Thyroid made me feel too anxious and that feeling totally freaks me out. I already have panic attack disorder which I was diagnosed with in the 90's as well.
The endocrinologist put me on Synthroid but the dosage was too much so I was put on a smaller dose and they want me to work up to a larger dose. Every time I attempt to take more I start feeling that anxiousness. Right now I am on 25mcg although initially they gave me 137 mcg.
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trader758
Veteran Member
Joined : Aug 2014
Posts : 752
Posted 5/6/2015 8:23 PM (GMT -8)
Raediance,

So glad to hear your nodules were benign. Would you by chance be able to post the ranges for each of those tests? Without knowing those ranges, my opinion is only a guess, as different labs use different ranges. That said, its no wonder youre feeling anxiety on many drugs. Your Free T3 is much higher than your Free T4, which tells me youre getting a bunch of T3 from somewhere. Since you have nodules id suspect the nodules themselves to be producing hormone. What usually happens in this case is no matter what thyroid medication you take pushes T3 too high and you actually feel hyper.

As you see from your TSH @ 5.0, and your Free T4 @ .9, the Hashimotos is already destroying your thyroid. Further proof is your TPO of 900.

You also are low on Vit D. Your doc should start you at 10,000 iu per day until your levels come up to around 60. D3.

Armour or other T3/T4 combination medications are what is what is usually best, but in your case you need a T4 only medication such as levothyroxine, synthroid, or tirosint to bring your T4 up into range(about mid way) but your doctor needs to keep a close eye on your Free T3. If you dont have a problem converting T4 t T3, your T3 will rise above range and cause a lot of anxiety, heart palpitations, etc.....no worries though, if taken slow and tested often youll be just fine.

That said, you need to find out why your T3 is much higher in relation to T4. Usually, as I said, it can be your nodules are producing T3. But, it could also be other issues such as low iron, or adrenal issues.

Additional testing should be done. Get your iron levels checked. This will include ferritin, % saturation, TIBC and serum iron. Treat anything thats out of range. Get your cortisol checked. Request a cortisol test that is checked at 4 pts throughout the day. Preferrably a saliva test. Again, treat anything out of range. For these tests you can do a search and find what numbers are optimal for each.

After your doctor gives you thyroid medication, ask to be tested as soon as 4 weeks, preferrably 3 due to your Free T3 levels to monitor how Free T3 is responding. Make sure you get these tests...

Free T3
Free T4
Reverse T3
TSH(not necessary the first test, you already know its high. But further tests checknit t make sure its being suppressed.)

Make sure you do the Reverse T3 at the same time as Free T3 so you can check the ratio between them. You can check this ratio online(theres calculators) and see if its higher than 20, which is healthy. Lower than 20 points to other issues such as low iron, low or high cortisol, etc. What your looking for with Reverse T3 is making sure your body is using T3 at the cellular level, if not your body will convert(sometimes heavily) T4 into RT3 instead of T3. T3 is the active hormone, Reverse T3 is useless and could potentially indicate an systemic inflammation issue.


Personal opinion here....if you can get your doctor to wrap his mind around the whole endocrine system instead of a few lab numbers, youll probably find your panic attack disorder greatly reduces, or disappears. I have a suspicion its directly related. Ok, hope I didnt forget anything. Good luck!

PS.... 25 mcg is a litte low. Stay there for now, but at the first chance you get tested, you will want to raise to 50. Again, no worries, but youre in for a long ride. Adjustment takes time and you have a ways to go. At each increase you may feel a little "off" but that should change in a week as the T4 rises. This is a marathon, not a sprint. Youll get there.

PSS....knew I forgot something :D since youre going to get tested again for iron and such, add folate and B12. You may need these for furture reference. They can be very useful if thyroid issues cant be resolved(due to inflammation).

Post Edited (trader758) : 5/6/2015 10:43:31 PM (GMT-6)

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hypoHashi
Veteran Member
Joined : Jul 2012
Posts : 801
Posted 5/6/2015 11:44 PM (GMT -8)
Hi Raediance ,
As you can see, your TSH is high, if these tests were taken more than six weeks while on 25 mcg/day then you need your dose of Synthroid increased.

Armour thyroid is made from dried Pigs glands , and the ratio of T3 to T4 in pigs is much higher than that of humans, more over, it is not approved by the American FDA.

Also your high positive TPOab indicates an autoimmune thyroid disease, since your TSH is high then your hashimoto is causing hypothyroidism.

Good luck ,
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trader758
Veteran Member
Joined : Aug 2014
Posts : 752
Posted 5/7/2015 3:54 AM (GMT -8)

hypoHashimoto said...


Armour thyroid is made from dried Pigs glands , and the ratio of T3 to T4 in pigs is much higher than that of humans, more over, it is not approved by the American FDA.

Would you like to explain why naturally dessicated thyroid products are not approved by the FDA or are you going to leave this blanket statement as is? Why didnt you add the fact that Synthroid and all levothyroxine drugs were in the same category(grandfathered in, thus unapproved by the FDA) as naturally dessicated thyroid until 1997? You also didnt add the fact that Synthroid didnt receive FDA approval until 2002, and before 2002 was denied the Generally Recognised As Safe title by the FDA, and why(Synthroid had potency and formulary issues from its introduction until its 2002 approval).

Would you like to explain that naturally dessicated thyroid products will never be FDA approved until Thyroid Powder can meet market demand(product availability numbers)? Do you want to add that Thyroid Powder and the resultant products are tested by United States Pharmacopeia, who they are and what they do? That the FDA over sees USP products? That the raw powder is tested and given an NDC code just as finished naturally dessicated thyroid products are? That compounding pharmacies routinely, under FDA guidelines, compound their own naturally dessicated thyroid formulas?(which wouldnt be possible without verifiable lab testing)

Raediance,

As I said above, due to your current lab results your only option is a T4 only medication. In the future, if your lab results favor a T3 containing medication such as Armour, feel safe that it is a prescription drug thus regulated by the FDA and tested for purity to meet FDA guidelines by USP laboratories.
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Raediance
New Member
Joined : May 2015
Posts : 9
Posted 5/8/2015 10:17 AM (GMT -8)
Thyroid Peroxidase Ab >900 Reference Range 0.0-8.9 IU/mL
T3, FREE 2.9 Reference Range 2.3-4.2 pg/mL
T3, TOTAL T3 Hormone 105 Reference Range 76-181 ng/dL
T4 (THYROXINE),TOTAL 7.1 Reference Range 4.5 -12.0 mcg/dL
FREE T4 0.9 Reference Range 0.8-1.8 ng/dL
TSH 5.00 High 0.40-4.50
Vitamin D Total 27 Reference Range 30-100
Vitamin D3 16 Reference Range not established
Vitamin D2 11 Reference Range not established

Why is it that everything else seems to be in range yet the TSH and the Thyroid Peroxidase Ab is off the chart? Will an increase in my Synthroid dosages start to affect these other ranges making them too high?
Now that I have been taking this new 25mcg dosage I will get more tests taken. I'm curious to see my numbers now. Ok I'll add folate and B12. Thanks so much! You have no idea how happy I am that I've found this site!!! I don't feel as helpless now that I've met some true advocates!! ;)

Post Edited (Raediance) : 5/8/2015 12:22:18 PM (GMT-6)

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hypoHashi
Veteran Member
Joined : Jul 2012
Posts : 801
Posted 5/8/2015 10:28 AM (GMT -8)
Hi,
We are here to help you and other members .
If these tests were done after six weeks while on 25 mcg/day then you need to add another 50 mcg synthroid per week, and no your other tests will not become too high !

On the other hand, if it is yet six weeks then wait until six weeks and repeat TSH test, and your Doctor should be able to instruct you about what to do !

Best ,
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trader758
Veteran Member
Joined : Aug 2014
Posts : 752
Posted 5/8/2015 11:08 AM (GMT -8)

Raediance said...
Thyroid Peroxidase Ab >900 Reference Range 0.0-8.9 IU/mL
T3, FREE 2.9 Reference Range 2.3-4.2 pg/mL
T3, TOTAL T3 Hormone 105 Reference Range 76-181 ng/dL
T4 (THYROXINE),TOTAL 7.1 Reference Range 4.5 -12.0 mcg/dL
FREE T4 0.9 Reference Range 0.8-1.8 ng/dL
TSH 5.00 High 0.40-4.50
Vitamin D Total 27 Reference Range 30-100
Vitamin D3 16 Reference Range not established
Vitamin D2 11 Reference Range not established

Why is it that everything else seems to be in range yet the TSH and the Thyroid Peroxidase Ab is off the chart? Will an increase in my Synthroid dosages start to affect these other ranges making them too high?
Now that I have been taking this new 25mcg dosage I will get more tests taken. I'm curious to see my numbers now. Ok I'll add folate and B12. Thanks so much! You have no idea how happy I am that I've found this site!!! I don't feel as helpless now that I've met some true advocates!! ;)


Something you should remember is in range does not mean optimal. In range means things are working, doesnt mean they are working properly, or that you shouldnt have symptoms. The reason your TPO is high is because you have an autoimmune disorder, Hashimotos. The reason your TSH is high is because the Hashimotos is killing off your thyroid, and your pituitary gland is telling the thyroid to make more hormones, but it cant.

And thank you for posting the ranges for each. Your Free T3, though low, is ok in relation to Free T4. 2.9 would be high on some lab ranges, but youre fine. That said, most likely youre next lab tests will show you need to increase to 50. Heres what your labs for Free T3 and Free T4 should look like when optimal, which will help boost your immune system and help lower the Hashimotos attack.....

Free T3 in the 3.5 to 4.0 range
Free T4 in the 1.1 to 1.3 range

Your TSH will naturally drop, TPO should too. As I said before, you definitely need to get Vitamin D levels up. If you can get Vit D levels up around 60 youll see a nice increase in energy and your immune system will see a good boost too. Anything you can do to help your immune system right now is important. Your body is under attack, and Hashimotos can be very hard to control. Try to eat good foods, though it can be hard. Make sure your body is getting plenty of nurishment and water. Good luck to you!
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Raediance
New Member
Joined : May 2015
Posts : 9
Posted 5/8/2015 12:29 PM (GMT -8)
Thanks so much! Ordered the Selenium and increased my Vitamin D dosage today.
Can't wait until my memory comes back and brain fog goes away. Any supplements I can take for that?
Also, my hair,skin and nails are really suffering. Hair is dry and brittle and breaking off. cry
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jujub
Elite Member
Joined : Mar 2003
Posts : 10424
Posted 5/8/2015 12:40 PM (GMT -8)
Members, remember to consult your healthcare provider about any medication or treatment changes. The members here are not health care professionals, only others living with these conditions. As such, we cannot diagnose or prescribe.
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trader758
Veteran Member
Joined : Aug 2014
Posts : 752
Posted 5/8/2015 5:05 PM (GMT -8)

Raediance said...
Thanks so much! Ordered the Selenium and increased my Vitamin D dosage today.
Can't wait until my memory comes back and brain fog goes away. Any supplements I can take for that?
Also, my hair,skin and nails are really suffering. Hair is dry and brittle and breaking off. cry

There may be somevsupplements to help with brain fog, but ive found nothing that I can recommend that works 100%. For your skin and nails biotin can help, itll help with your hair some too. Coconut oil can help moisturize your hair/skin also. You can do a search to find how to use those products.
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