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TSH from .24 to 7.0, TPO from 398 to over 6,500....in 5 weeks?

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Posted 9/26/2015 8:38 AM (GMT -6)
Yes, these are my really numbers taken Wednesday! :-( No wonder I have been feeling to awful!!

Sept 2015 labs:
TSH: 7.0 (.4-4.4).........Super HIGH
T3 Total - 79 (60-181)..Very very low
FT3 - 2.9 (2.3-4.2).......Very very low
No Reverse T3 taken
FT4 - .85 (.84-1.51)......Super LOW
TPO - 6,500 (<60)........Super, ridiculously HIGH

Same lab as above, May 2015:
TSH: 1.75 (.4-4.4).......Good
FT3: 3.0 (2.3-4.2)........OK
No Reverse T3 taken
FT4: 1.2 (.84-1.51)......Low
TPO: >1000 (<60).......Super HIGH
TG: <32 (<60)............Good

Different lab than above, Health Diagnostic Laboratories, Aug 2015.
TSH: .24 (.27-4.2).......Very LOW
T3: 94 (80-200)...........Very LOW
FT3: 2.8 (2.0-4.4)........Low
RT3: 19 (8-24)............Good?
T4: 7.3 (4.5-11.7).......Good?
FT4: 1.26 (.93-1.70)....Good?
TG: 37 (<115).............Good
TPO: 398 (<34)...........Very very HIGH



My August labs (3rd listed) are from this new ND, who uses a different lab than the lab I usually use. Can this really happen, where things elevate like this in 5 weeks? Or was the lab the new ND used to that pull the TSH .24 and TPO 398 was wrong? My Drs I saw this week, endo and MD, think NDs lab is all wrong. My previous labs, done in May at my normal lab, were TSH 1.75, TPO 1000+. An endo, alternative RN, MD, all said I should not be on meds after a different ND put me on 1 grain natural thyroid. I was not feeling any better, so I took the three of their advice, and stopped. I had the same symptoms before I started taking it, during, and after I stopped. Did not get labs new labs until August. Had to wait 6 weeks until thyroid medication left system.

So desperate to feel better ASAP, I fasted Wednesday four hours, so I could start my Levothyroxine 50 mg same day I got the news. Any advice on other things I can do to get my body stabilized faster? I'm taking selenium and also ld naltrexone, currently at 1.5 mg. 4 mg was way too much and I felt drugged most of the day.

In last week or so, been having that strangulation feeling again, mainly while lying down. This had gone way for last few months until recently. I do have small goiter, had two nodules biopsies negative in May. Latest endo said that nodules won't grow. I don't believe him, as that sounds rediculous. Is is wrong, right? He recommended I get them scanned 1 year from scan and biopsy. If this feeling persists, thinking I'll ask new primary care MD when I follow up with her in 2 weeks. Could Levothyroxine shrink nodules if they are growing after taking it 2 weeks, or should I give it more time?

Thank you for reading my post! blush

Post Edited (There's Always Hope) : 9/26/2015 11:10:11 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/26/2015 11:00 AM (GMT -6)
One additional question: Given what my current labs are, and taking previous ones into consideration, is T4 alone via 50 mg Levothyroxine a good place to start? Or, should I again consider T3 and T4 combined? Give Levo a shot and see what happens?

I tried a NDT 1 grain, 65 mg in May/June. Didn't feel better at the time. So I stopped because an endo told me I should not be on meds, as did 2 other md's.
Posted 9/26/2015 12:56 PM (GMT -6)
When you had those tests taken, were they taken at the same time of day, and had you taken a thyroid medicine before the lab? If so, what med was taken before the blood draw?

TPO and Tg can fluctuate from day to day. Both mine were elevated, then they both went down by 75%, then 8 weeks later TPO was elevated again.

If you have elevated TPO and/or TgAB, then you have Hashimoto's. Whoever told you that you shouldn't be on meds, stop going to. If you have Hashimoto's, then you should be on a thyroid medication. Also, whichever endo told you that thyroid nodules don't grow, is an idiot. Sorry, but it's true. He has no clue what he's talking about.

You're right about the ranges. FT4 should be in upper 1/2 of the range and FT3 should be in upper quartile to be optimal. TSH is a guide... meaning, the pituitary gland sends a signal to the thyroid telling it what it needs, that's TSH. So it's not technically a thyroid signal, it's a pituitary signal, and if your TSH is high or low, then that's a breakdown somewhere in the FT4, FT3 or conversation from 4 to 3.

I started off on 50mcg of levothyroxine and was increased to 75. I still had symptoms... hair falling out, brain fog, couldn't lose weight, no energy. My doctor switched me to 1 grain of Armour. I've been on it for 3 weeks, so too soon to test #s, but I have more energy, less brain fog and have lost weight. It's a personal decision, and you need to do what you feel is right. It sounds to me that you've done your research and know what you're talking about. If one doctor won't listen, the find another who will. The doctors who said you don't need meds and the one who said nodules can't grow.... kick to the curb!!
Posted 9/26/2015 6:55 PM (GMT -6)
Hi MsHippo, and thanks for responding.

No, with none of the tests had I taken thyroid medication even 6 weeks before.

May labs were first diagnosis. Blood drawn at about 11:30 am - 12:00 pm. Then I tried the NDT 65 mg for about 6 weeks before and endo, RN, and MD all said that I should not be on thyroid medicine. Since I had three opinions, I stopped taking it. I did not feel any better anyway. Symptoms this entire year have been roller coaster of the same things, over and over.

August labs were 6-8 weeks following my last NDT pill. I fasted 12 hours when those labs were ran, and blood was drawn at 1:00 pm.

Sept labs were 5 weeks after the Aug labs. Blood drawn at 12:15 pm.

I am only on day 3 of 50 mg Levothyroxine, and I am possibly feeling better already! Body aches are almost gone, able to stay awake all day long!! (not just 3 hours and then narcoleptic), my body temperature has increased a little tiny bit, and I have more normal energy. Pharmacist said this could happen. Today is the first day the strangulation feeling has subsided tiny bit, since it started 6 days ago. Time will tell, of course. I actually woke up this morning .6 lbs less than yesterday! And this was prior to morning bm. (sorry TMI, but I joked with my sister that maybe I actually lost an lb since yesterday, when all was said and ahem, done! smilewinkgrin )

Yes, I immediately stopped going to those people! Guess there are four of them, not three. The endo, heck no, she told me more wrong things. RN told me that with TPO over 1000, I might have Graves, not Hashimoto's, that I shouldn't be on thyroid medication and that some people on thyroid medication who don't need it have died of heart attacks. MD admitted he didn't know anything about thyroid, but that my TPO was "slightly elevated". No big deal. And then there was the latest nd, who ran the August labs. He said "everything is just fine", even though I kept emailing him my symptoms as I was again sick, incapacitated 3 weeks, gave him my low body temp and coinciding aching arms, legs, narcolepsy and other symptoms. All four have been fired. I cannot employ doctors who don't give a rats that I have not functioned all year and have not been able to see that my thyroid is the cause, just as I have pointed out to all of them.

The latest endo (2nd one, first was June) is the one who told me nodules shouldn't grow. He said I should be on Levo, and that is what the new primary just did my annual when we did the latest blood draw had also prescribed. He will have to join the curb with the previous endo. They can argue about me needing meds.

The lack of logic here just baffles me! And they are medical professionals with medical or nathuropathic doctorates?

The same day that I saw fired endo #2, I met with my 4th or is it 5th ND that I've employed this year. I think she may be a keeper. She is the first to actually calculate that I have been drinking way too much water and that my electrolytes are too low. She actually pulled out her calculator and crunched the numbers! She told me I needed electrolytes asap. After I left her office and headed to the endo, she called me.....she is the FIRST doctor EVER to actually read what my medications are and to look up how they interact. She called me immediately to let me know that I should not ever take imitrex migraine medication with flexeril muscle relaxant. I've been taking them for 15 years or so, list them on every single patient history form, and not one doctor has informed me of the danger. I am meeting with her again early this week to further discuss my issues and to dissect my current diet, and give it a make over. I already have a very specific, narrow diet, due to Interstitial Cystitis (supposedly....I am now questioning everything. Diagnosed in 2000).

I see that you are were also diagnosed Hashimoto's this year, like me (I'm May). How is your thyroid roller coaster ride going? I am so glad that you are feeling much better on 3 weeks of Armour!

Did you also have strange symptoms for years? Are you also taking selenium to get TPO down and other thyroid support? Or, what other supplements? How long were you on the Levo 50, before going to Levo 75, and how long were you on that? Did hair fall out with 50 mg? Oh my goodness, I don't want that to happen! Do you think Armour T3 and T4 is much better in preventing hair shedding, over just T4?

The curb is becoming a crowed place this year!
wink

Post Edited (There's Always Hope) : 9/26/2015 7:02:12 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/26/2015 8:08 PM (GMT -6)
It's good that all your labs were taken around the same time. I think I read somewhere that mornings are the best time though... I can't remember where, but the Stop the Thyroid Madness web site might have some info on that. I also wonder if some of your non thyroid meds were causing the fluctuation in your results.

I'm glad your symptoms are subsiding & that you lost a pound. :-) It'll be interesting to see what your labs are in 8 weeks. Levo does work for some people. It worked for me for awhile, but my T3 steadily decreased. That's when my hair started falling out and my face started breaking out.

I like the sound of your new ND. She sounds great - very thorough!

There's Always Hope said...
Did you also have strange symptoms for years? Are you also taking selenium to get TPO down and other thyroid support? Or, what other supplements? How long were you on the Levo 50, before going to Levo 75, and how long were you on that? Did hair fall out with 50 mg? Oh my goodness, I don't want that to happen! Do you think Armour T3 and T4 is much better in preventing hair shedding, over just T4?



Fortunately, I didn't have symptoms for years. I was unknowingly bitten by a tick last Oct., and contracted Lyme disease. That's what caused my Hashi's/hypo. I was probably genetically pre-disposed, but the lyme sped up the process. I was on 50mcg for 8 weeks before going to 75mcg. After the first 8 weeks on 75mcg, my numbers looked great, except my FT3 started to decline. The next 8 weeks, they weren't so great - mediocre. That's when my hair started falling out. At that time I started eating 2 organic brazil nuts per day to supplement T3. That helped tremendously. I got my T3 higher than it'd ever been. I think that took me up to my August labs. My TSH was so-so, FT3 was great, FT4 was ok but not optimal and antibodies were high again.

Then I was finally DXd with lyme and and my lyme doctor switched me to Armour because he doesn't want me on a synthetic thyroid med.

Some people do well on synthetic, some do not. There's a lot that goes into play with that.

Oh, and my hair loss wasn't clumps, but more all over strands. I'd get a couple of handfuls out everyday and I noticed it becoming more and more thin. I'm still losing, but not nearly as much and now there are baby hairs growing back in at my hairline.

I hope your new ND continues to work out well! It's not uncommon for people with thyroid disorders to go through many doctors. They just aren't trained to order and review all of the important labs, nor do they know the variously RX options.
Posted 9/26/2015 8:38 PM (GMT -6)
Hi MsHippo,

Funny you mention Brazil nuts. I love them! I think I read that 5 per day max, for supplemental selenium. Apparently, they are very caloric. I also eat them when I remember to purchase them, in addition to taking daily supplemental selenium.

So, how low did your T3 go when your hair started falling out? What were your numbers? Do you mean Free T3? Yay! That's great that you have hair growing back in. My T3 Total and FT3 are both very low. I'll discuss this with my new nd. Can a person raise their T3 on a T4 supplement alone?

As for lyme, well........I did get a lyme test last year. It says negative. But I noticed that I have one double band with ++ (middle positive), one IND and one + on one part of the test, and two IND's on the other part. New nd has my lab results, and we'll discuss this week. I'm thinking this might be a false positive? Otherwise how did I get anti bodies (or whatever you call them on a lyme test) for borrelia? My latest curb-meeting nd also has this test, and made no comment about it. I started writing him a detailed email about my lyme test and what I thought it meant, but deleted it knowing that if he didn't get it the first time around, he likely wouldn't get it the second.

I also have EBV and CMV anti bodies.
Posted 9/27/2015 1:56 PM (GMT -6)
Hi TAH!

My doc told me 2 brazil nuts per day max, but I don't know if that was for me or a guideline for everyone in general. I ate exactly 2 everyday for 2 months or so.

Yes, I meant my FT3 was declining. It was:
Feb 3.3 (2 - 4.4 range for all of these)
March 2.9
May 2.6 (hair started falling out in May, June & July; started brazil nuts in mid June)
Aug 3.6 (that's just from adding brazil nuts!)
Sept - hair isn't falling out as much, started 1 grain Armour and stopped Levo

Did you get an IgeneX lab test? Do you remember which bands were positive and IND and were these IGG or IGM? There's no such thing as a false positive with IgeneX western blot. There's a reason for this that I can't remember at the moment. There have been posts about it in the lyme forum. There can be false negatives, but IgeneX tests are 94% accurate. I tested positive on 3 bands and IND on 2. An LLMD will tell you that an IND is actually a weak positive. I'm hoping your new ND will understand the test. Let me know how the appt goes and which bands were what.

I believe there are more people who have lyme and don't even know it. I think a person who is symptomatic also has something else going on... suppressed immune system, adrenal fatigue, untreated food intolerances. I'm sure there are many "healthy" people who have been infected by borrelia and/or co-infections, but since they don't have other issues, then they aren't showing lyme/cos symptoms. That's just my opinion based on what I've read and talked about with others. The scary thing is the people who don't know are donating blood, organs, having unprotected sex and they're passing lyme/cos on to other people.
Posted 9/28/2015 11:00 AM (GMT -6)
Hi MH!

I just mowed through my last brazil nuts yesterday. Need more, and to pay closer attention to taking either those nuts or selenium every day. I've been really good about it since I was trying to get TPO lowered. So odd how high it jumped desite the selenium

Oh! Your low FT3 was actually higher than mine has been (3.0, 2.8, 2.9). Maybe mine has gone up a point since Aug due to selenium. I'll discuss with new nd tomorrow.

Yes, IGeneX. I meant, false negative. Ooops! IGeneX report says: The lyme test results are "considered POSITIVE if two or more of the double starred bands present" (I only have one present, or IND), "Negative if less than two" (this is me), "Indeterminate if only bands 31 and 41 present" (I have several IND).

"Presence of one double starred band or indeterminate double starred band in a NEGATIVE report may indicate clinical significance". (I have presence of 3 double starred bands (2 are IND, 1 is +), and 1 no starred band on IgM, and presence of 1 double starred band on IgG). Results with one "+" mean low intensity, two "++" means middle intensity.

My results:
IgM: (So, more recent or likely active infection)

18 kDa.---------- "+" = (low positive intensity - flagellen fragment)
++31 kDa.------ "+" = (low positive intensity - outer surface proteins)

++41 kDa.---- "IND" = (indeterminate level - flagellin)
++83-93 kDa.--"IND"= (indeterminate level - #83 is high molecular mass protein, specific to Borrelia. #93 is immunodominant protoplasmic cylinder antigen, associated with flagellum. Specific to Borrelia.).


IgM: (So, more recent or likely active infection?)

18 kDa.------------"+" = (low positive intensity - flagellen fragment)
++31 kDa.--------"+" = (low positive intensity - outer surface proteins)

++41 kDa.------"IND" = (indeterminate level - flagellin)
++83-93 kDa.--"IND" = (indeterminate level - #83 is high molecular mass protein, specific to Borrelia. #93 is immunodominant protoplasmic cylinder antigen, associated with flagellum. Specific to Borrelia.).


IgG: (So, I have had previous exposure to bacteria and possibly have an older lyme infection?)

++39 kDa.-----"IND" = (indeterminate level - Bmp, bacterial membrane protein. Specific to Borrelia).
++41 kDa.------"++" = (middle positive - flagellin)

The test interpretation says, "Positive result for 31 (I have one "+")...infection with HSV, EBV, HCV and/or syphilis may give false positive". Ok, so I have very high EPV antibodies, so EPV could account for "+" on 31 on IgM, but what about the rest of it? How else would I have Borrelia markers if I did not have a tick bite me that was carrying Borrelia?

Yes, I am sure there people out there who are blaming their symptoms on something else. The denial people. Or the people who thinks its ".......fill in the blank.....disease.....or injury.....or stress......" causing all the symptoms. I was diagnosed with Fibro this past spring, but I knew something else was up, so I didn't just settle with that. My symptoms could be Lupus, but so far tests are negative (awaiting few more results). Or, in my case it could all be related to hypothyroid, and my entire system being out of whack.

Are you sure that people can pass lyme bacteria to others? Infected ticks must bite their host in order to transfer the lyme bacteria to people or animals. Maybe you mean just some co-infections? Example: mycoplasma can be a co-infection of lyme, or it can be acquired through unprotected sex. Urea plasma is affiliated with mycoplasma, but I am not sure if its a co-infection of lyme or not. It is, however, a leading cause of infertility and miscarriages. It can be transferred through unprotected sex, and can lead to pelvic inflammatory disease.

As for donating blood from those who have lyme, co-infections, EPV, CMV, mycoplamsa, ureaplasma, that is a very good question! One would think that the collected blood is tested prior to being used, but who knows?

Post Edited (There's Always Hope) : 9/28/2015 11:05:57 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/28/2015 12:33 PM (GMT -6)
I'm not an expert, but I'd say you do have lyme. The INDs are weak positives. I've also read that some LLMDs will say you have lyme if you only have band 18 positive. There are others who follow Dr. H's guidelines (if you Google "lyme bingo" you'll see a graphic with his guidelines). I'm interested to hear what you're ND says, but I might suggest you post your test results in the Lyme forum. There are some people in there who are very helpful with all of this.

When they tested you for lupus, did you get an ANA titer? If so, what were the results? Mine was 1:160 homogeneous. Then I tested negative for lupus on all the other rheumy tests. My LLMD said that elevated ANA can be from lyme.

You know... To be honest, I never stopped to think what exactly could be transmitted sexually - whether it was borrelia or cos. I think because most people who have lyme also have a few cos, I lumped it under one big icky umbrella. tongue

I know for sure that donated blood is not tested for babesia and that the U.S. Gov't is working with IgeneX to develop a blood screening test. Isn't that interesting? They don't consider them "approved enough" to test our blood, but they're willing to work with them to check donated blood for babs. Anyway, super scary that it's not already being checked for that.
Posted 9/28/2015 12:48 PM (GMT -6)
Thanks! I agree! The newly fired latest nd failed to even comment on my lyme test. I didn't inquire, because if I have to point these things out, he doesn't get it. Not wasting my energy educating. ;-) I'll know tomorrow what new nd thinks. She is on the top of her game (set so far apart from all the others...how do they stay in business?) so I'd be surprised if she isn't on the same page. My worry is how treatment will make me feel. I can't fathom feeling carpy again and having more down time!

Yes, tested ANA. It was negative; will have to look up exact results. Not sure it says anything else. One marker that I do potentially have is the low compliment protein c 3, but that could be caused by hashi or something else. Not all Lupus sufferers have positive ANA. Also tested sjogren's, negative. Will need to look up what other tests. All were normal range thus far.

Totally interesting about blood not being tested in the blood bank! Good way to spread more disease to already compromised people in need of blood.
Posted 9/28/2015 1:10 PM (GMT -6)
I forgot to ask: do you really think my August labs were correct? Could I really go from those ranges to my over-the-top ranges in under 5 weeks?

My symptoms were just starting when I met with that nd and the next day I went to draw blood. Following week was when I met with him to read results and I told him my stomach felt funny, like there was a hole in it, and that bladder had had burning feeling starting previous week. I also was on my 6th cold sore in 8 weeks, so he gave me mono lauric acid. Then urinary/gall bladder/liver issues started. I went down hill from there, big time. Ultra sounds are always normal when I have these symptoms.

Nd did not hear any of my complaints about my symptoms and focused on this being a renal problem, and that I should just wait to see what that doctor says. Took me 2 weeks to get a referral out of him after all of that! Wth? Yeah right, I'm going to sit an suffer until Oct 5? I think not! I then pointed out that I thought it was my thyroid causing these problems, he said no.

I don't take poor logic as an answer, didn't listen to him and went elsewhere to find out what was really going on (rinse, repeat, so many times with different doctors). Why hold off investigating or treating a thyroid condition, for me to meet with a kidney doctor? Why make me continue to suffer? An md is who I saw for my annual and she wanted to get latest blood tests.

And whatever happened to these nd's supposedly being focused on treating the "whole person"? Just isolating renal function as my problem is missing a huge boat, considering that he knew I had Hashimoto's, and that is why I went to him in the first place. His website states that's one of the conditions that he treats. Thinking out of the box, put two and two together, understanding what the thyroid regulates in the body and what impact mal function can have, should not be that hard to determine. I realized that my continual symptoms cycling over the last two-three years have likely correlated with fluctuating thyroid hormones, and that thyroid hormones have likely caused these symptoms. I'm not a doctor, and I was able to put all of that together, analyze the data, and make a preliminary diagnosis on myself: it's my thyroid that's a huge piece of my problem! If thyroid is not happy, none of it's relatives are happy either! idea

Interestingly, my new nd told me that thyroid function can have a relationship to gallbladder and liver symptoms. Makes sense to me, plus my symptoms escalated as tpo went way up over past few months. I had read this before so I wasn't totally surprised that she said that. I had two abdominal ultra sounds last year, nuclear hidascan, and a ct scan with contrast at the times when I had gallbladder and liver symptoms. Also charted clay colored bm, which is indicative of gallbladder problems. All my scans were normal. This year I've had three ultrasounds during the times I've had these symptoms, all normal. Again, clay colored bm was noted. If I had not taken photos shocked , I don't think the doctors would have believed me that it was gallbladder and liver related.

Post Edited (There's Always Hope) : 9/28/2015 1:22:34 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/28/2015 3:47 PM (GMT -6)
There could be some degree of error with any labs, but I think rather than your labs being wrong in August, that something else was going on in your body.

It drives me nuts when doctors hear one thing and they're all over it and don't take the time to look and see if there are any other possibilities.

I really feel for you. I've been to several different types of doctors and emergency rooms this year and never got any answers until I figured it out and ordered my own blood test. When your body is doing something that you KNOW isn't right, it sucks being doubted.

I'm looking forward to hearing how your ND appt goes tomorrow!!
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