Kefir/Probiotic questions

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Sara14
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Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 4034
   Posted 1/8/2008 7:58 PM (GMT -6)   
Does anyone here take kefir as a probiotic? I don't know much about it, but have heard it's a good probiotic.
 
I've also been wondering about probiotic supplements vs. probiotics found in food and drinks, like yogurt and DanActive. I know that we need to take enteric-coated probiotic supplements. So, how do the bacteria in things like yogurt and DanActive survive the stomach acid if they aren't enteric coated?
 
Thanks.
23 years old
Diagnosed with UC March 2007; yet to go into remission
Current inflamation in the rectum
Asacol 4 tablets 3x/day
Rowasa (generic) - daily
Nature's Way Primadophilus Reuteri 1/day; Chewable multivitamin; Metamucil; Viactiv (Calcium and Vit. D)


Numb78
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 63
   Posted 1/8/2008 8:02 PM (GMT -6)   
I had good success with a probiotic called Bio-K. I'm in Canada were it's made and sold. I'm not sure if it's available in other countries....
Currently in a flare since summer 07.
Current Meds: 35mg Pred, 2000mg salofalk, calcium supplements
Just about to start 100mg Imuran.


blessteve
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 121
   Posted 1/8/2008 8:48 PM (GMT -6)   
I started a week ago with kefir and raw milk.
I use raw milk for the kefir and also take probiotics
and antifungal.
Lots of friendly bacteria in raw milk.
Just started all this a week ago
and I hope it helps.


Diagnosed Colitis 1990.
Current Meds Asacol x4
twice a day.
Pred for flares.
I still have my colon THANK YOU GOD!!!


Sara14
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Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 4034
   Posted 1/9/2008 10:08 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the replies. numb - I will look into Bio-K.

blessteve - You'll have to let me know how the kefir works for you. I am kind of weary of drinking raw milk. I have read about supposed benefits of it, but I also know milk is pasteurized for a reason. I don't know much about it though and I hope it works for you! Is kefir expensive?
23 years old
Diagnosed with UC March 2007; yet to go into remission
Current inflamation in the rectum
Asacol 4 tablets 3x/day
Rowasa (generic) - daily
Nature's Way Primadophilus Reuteri 1/day; Chewable multivitamin; Metamucil; Viactiv (Calcium and Vit. D)


WhiteSox1
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 135
   Posted 1/9/2008 11:30 AM (GMT -6)   
I drink a glass of Keifer before I go to bed every night.  It tastes great (kind of like liquid yogurt) and so far so good.  I really haven't had any problems with it and feel better for drinking it. 
Asacol 4 pills 3x's daily
Imuran 125mg.
Prednisone 15mg.
Multi-Vitamins
Calcium with Vit. D Tablets


blessteve
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 121
   Posted 1/9/2008 12:05 PM (GMT -6)   
Sara14 said...
Thanks for the replies. numb - I will look into Bio-K.

blessteve - You'll have to let me know how the kefir works for you. I am kind of weary of drinking raw milk. I have read about supposed benefits of it, but I also know milk is pasteurized for a reason. I don't know much about it though and I hope it works for you! Is kefir expensive?

Raw milk farmer told me the original reason for pastuerize was it
lasted longer at room temp then raw back before everyone had a frig.
 
Kefir is cheap and you can take some you made and pour it
in milk to make more. So a little goes a long way if you do it
like that. You can do that about 7 times then it gets
to tart.
Diagnosed Colitis 1990.
Current Meds Asacol x4
twice a day.
Pred for flares.
I still have my colon THANK YOU GOD!!!


Sara14
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 4034
   Posted 1/9/2008 8:54 PM (GMT -6)   
I was doing a bit of research on raw milk and came across this from the FDA:
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2004/504_milk.html

"More than 300 people in the United States got sick from drinking raw milk or eating cheese made from raw milk in 2001, and nearly 200 became ill from these products in 2002, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. [It doesn't say how many, if any, got sick from pasteurized milk]

Raw milk may harbor a host of disease-causing organisms (pathogens), such as the bacteria campylobacter, escherichia, listeria, salmonella, yersinia, and brucella. Common symptoms of foodborne illness from many of these types of bacteria include diarrhea, stomach cramps, fever, headache, vomiting, and exhaustion. ...People with weakened immune systems, such as elderly people, children, and those with certain diseases or conditions, are most at risk for severe infections from pathogens that may be present in raw milk."

I'm not trying to scare you, just sharing info. I'm not sure how much I really trust the FDA though, so who knows...


23 years old
Diagnosed with UC March 2007; yet to go into remission
Current inflamation in the rectum
Asacol 4 tablets 3x/day
Rowasa (generic) - daily
Nature's Way Primadophilus Reuteri 1/day; Chewable multivitamin; Metamucil; Viactiv (Calcium and Vit. D)

Post Edited (Sara14) : 1/9/2008 8:06:32 PM (GMT-7)


blessteve
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 121
   Posted 1/9/2008 11:09 PM (GMT -6)   
Back when I was doing my research I came across
a similar article but it compared people that got sick from
raw and pasteurized and by far more got sick from pas. but
more Americans drink it pasteurized so that would make sense.
Over all no big deal. Lots of food make people sick.
Hell I am already sick. People die from cheese burgers and I still eat those.
I am hoping the friendly bacteria will help.
Diagnosed panColitis 1990.
Current Meds Asacol x4
twice a day.
Pred for flares.
I still have my colon THANK YOU GOD!!!
Started 1/08
raw milk-kefir made with raw milk
natto
caprylic acid-oregano oil
probiotic
 


Sara14
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 4034
   Posted 1/10/2008 9:15 AM (GMT -6)   
blessteve - Good points. You've probably done a lot more research on it than me. I hope it does help you. You'll have to keep us posted.
23 years old
Diagnosed with UC March 2007; yet to go into remission
Current inflamation in the rectum
Asacol 4 tablets 3x/day
Rowasa (generic) - daily
Nature's Way Primadophilus Reuteri 1/day; Chewable multivitamin; Metamucil; Viactiv (Calcium and Vit. D)


blessteve
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 121
   Posted 1/10/2008 11:59 AM (GMT -6)   
I sure will. Wish I would have found this sight years ago.
Diagnosed panColitis 1990.
Current Meds Asacol x4
twice a day.
Pred for flares.
I still have my colon THANK YOU GOD!!!
Started 1/08
raw milk-kefir made with raw milk
natto
caprylic acid-oregano oil
probiotic
 


princesa
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 2204
   Posted 1/10/2008 2:16 PM (GMT -6)   
I don't feel like someone with IBD can get the amount of probiotic supplementation they need from yogurt or kefir alone, although they may be good additions to the diet - if you don't have dairy issues. You should be aware alot of these products don't have near the viable count they claim and many strains are ineffective. Homemade versions are a better choice.

In my experience, Custom Probiotics and Natren are the probiotics with which I've had good results.
Diagnosed with ulcerative colitis spring 1999
 
Therapeutic dose sulfasalazine.
Probiotics, l-glutamine and fish oil caps. George's aloe vera juice and Mucosaheal.
 
 


Sara14
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 4034
   Posted 1/10/2008 4:30 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the replies.

Can anyone answer my second question about how liquid probiotic drinks (aka DanActive) and yogurt survive stomach acid, being as they aren't enteric coated?
23 years old
Diagnosed with UC March 2007; yet to go into remission
Current inflamation in the rectum
Asacol 4 tablets 3x/day
Rowasa (generic) - daily
Nature's Way Primadophilus Reuteri 1/day; Chewable multivitamin; Metamucil; Viactiv (Calcium and Vit. D)


relativelyquantum
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 196
   Posted 1/10/2008 4:41 PM (GMT -6)   
Actually yogurt is somewhat regulated, if they are a part of the National Yogurt Association and they have the "live and active cultures" seal (gets into the billions when you have 1/2 cup, usually more than most probiotic supplements).  http://www.aboutyogurt.com/lacYogurt/
 
But most products are not regulated, but food sources are a terrific source of probiotics, especially if you get a quality type.  I also buy kefir and often they identify several probiotic strains and though they don't tell you the count, when it has a chance to proliferate, it will, provided they don't heat treat it (pasturization is done before this process).  Plus, the calcium helps the probiotic to gain ground on the intestinal walls.  The other benefit of buy a probiotic flourishing in a prebiotic (its food source) is that it has a chance to digest it and makes our disgestion easier and other benefits from this metabiotic.  Sauerkraut and pickles in salt (not vinegar!), also should contain probiotics, if they are not heated afterward and even some sourdough bread.
 
Most of these probiotics should be able to handle the acid in the stomach, but not all can, nor can I tell you off the top of my head which cannot [edit: even H. pylori, the bad guy that can cause ulcers in the stomach remains there and DanActive is suppose to help, at least to a degree].  It may even be worth opening the probiotic capsule, if you are taking supplements as well, and add them to a cool food (yogurt, kefir, etc.) or drink, that way it gets in your throat and sinus for overall health.  And the longer the bacteria are exposed to a food source, the greater there numbers can increase.  However, I am thinking the enteric coated probiotics are more sensitive to the stomach acid or some other reason; since we are all primarily concerned with colon, this makes sense that there could also be benefits in trying this option as well. 
 
Blessteve, good idea on adding kefir to milk, that way you can choose your own source and it saves money.  Raw milk has the added benefit of the enzymes and other "stuff" that is supposed to be good for us and would normally be killed in pasturization.



Pancolitis '04
Yet to ever go into remission, additional Flare-up since Aug 12th
Time off work since 10/17. 
 
Finally seeing some improvement; likely was complicated with a digestional yeast overgrowth.
 
On Lialda (2/dy), Probiotics, Fish Oil, Folic Acid, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Borage Oil

Post Edited (relativelyquantum) : 1/10/2008 3:44:19 PM (GMT-7)


princesa
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 2204
   Posted 1/10/2008 5:11 PM (GMT -6)   
And sometimes probiotic action is desirable in the mouth, esophagus and stomach...
Diagnosed with ulcerative colitis spring 1999
 
Therapeutic dose sulfasalazine.
Probiotics, l-glutamine and fish oil caps. George's aloe vera juice and Mucosaheal.
 
 


blessteve
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 121
   Posted 1/10/2008 5:24 PM (GMT -6)   
Relativelyquantum,
That is some good input. Thanks

Steve
Diagnosed panColitis 1990.
Current Meds Asacol x4
twice a day.
Pred for flares.
I still have my colon THANK YOU GOD!!!
Started 1/08
raw milk-kefir made with raw milk
natto
caprylic acid-oregano oil
probiotic
 


relativelyquantum
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 196
   Posted 1/10/2008 5:42 PM (GMT -6)   
princesa, yes indeed. The endodontist (root canal dentist) I went to said researchers were working on species for the mouth that would better survive and replace the bad/cavity type with a better version. God knows I could use it. On a side note, makes me wonder if our skin may benefit with all the antibacterial soap used.

Steve, you're welcome.
Pancolitis '04
Yet to ever go into remission, additional Flare-up since Aug 12th
Time off work since 10/17.  Return to work on 1/11 and doing much better.
 
On Lialda (2/dy), Probiotics, Fish Oil, Folic Acid, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Borage Oil


Sara14
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 4034
   Posted 1/10/2008 6:38 PM (GMT -6)   
relativelyquantum - I was hoping you'd post here. Thanks for all the info. I had always heard it was important for us UCers to get enteric-coated probiotic supplements, but it sounds like that may not be necessary.
23 years old
Diagnosed with UC March 2007; yet to go into remission
Current inflamation in the rectum
Asacol 4 tablets 3x/day
Rowasa (generic) - daily
Nature's Way Primadophilus Reuteri 1/day; Chewable multivitamin; Metamucil; Viactiv (Calcium and Vit. D)


relativelyquantum
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 196
   Posted 1/10/2008 8:55 PM (GMT -6)   
No prob. And yes, I agree. From what I've looked at, the jury is still out on this issue, but as earlier mentioned, I imagine there may be benefits to both enteric and non-enteric coated probiotics. This is the one area I've read the most on and believe most confidently it holds many, though not all, answers (if it isn't obvious from most of my posts! LOL). I am not always the most consistent in getting on this forum, but I try to catch up.

The good news is that I return to work tomorrow after almost 3 months and nearly 5 months of a disabling flare. Not 100%, but feeling so much better. Plus, I made a big pot of veggie and turkey stew that I learned from my sister so I don't have to eat out. I don't know if UC or cooking has been the biggest challenge for me. heh.
Pancolitis '04
Yet to ever go into remission, additional Flare-up since Aug 12th
Time off work since 10/17.  Return to work on 1/11 and doing much better.
 
On Lialda (2/dy), Probiotics, Fish Oil, Folic Acid, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Borage Oil


Sara14
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 4034
   Posted 1/10/2008 9:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Great to hear you're a lot feeling better! Good luck with your first day back at work tomorrow! Good idea on the stew...sounds good! I love making big pots of homemade soup with fresh veggies.
23 years old
Diagnosed with UC March 2007; yet to go into remission
Current inflamation in the rectum
Asacol 4 tablets 3x/day
Rowasa (generic) - daily
Nature's Way Primadophilus Reuteri 1/day; Chewable multivitamin; Metamucil; Viactiv (Calcium and Vit. D)


relativelyquantum
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 196
   Posted 1/13/2008 12:16 AM (GMT -6)   

Thanks Sara.  I had a great day and enjoyed being around my coworkers again and feeling somewhat normal too.  I was pretty worn out by the end of the day and being active in the mornings again is also a slight challenge, but I will overcome!  The place I work for has been very understanding and feel very blessed to be there.

The stew turned out good and I am set for few more days... planning ahead--what a concept!  The biggest difficulty is resisting the sweets and I have a tendency to have a few too many, even if they are organic or whatever, I would probably being doing better if I could hold off for a while.  Well at least I am gaining weight :)


Pancolitis '04
Yet to ever go into remission, additional Flare-up since Aug 12th
Time off work since 10/17.  Return to work on 1/11 and doing much better.
 
On Lialda (2/dy), Probiotics, Fish Oil, Folic Acid, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Borage Oil


Sara14
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 4034
   Posted 1/13/2008 12:36 PM (GMT -6)   
Glad to hear you had a good first day back. I remember how hard it was for me to go back after I was off work for about 1 1/2 months after diagnosis. That's good your work is understanding. My boss isn't quite so understanding, but I'm looking for a new job.

I have a hard time resisting sweets, too. They're definitely one of my weaknesses...
23 years old
Diagnosed with UC March 2007; yet to go into remission
Asacol 4 tablets 3x/day
Rowasa (generic) - daily
Nature's Way Primadophilus Reuteri 1/day; Chewable multivitamin; Metamucil; Viactiv (Calcium and Vit. D); fish oil


Sara14
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 4034
   Posted 1/18/2008 8:12 PM (GMT -6)   
My local health food store just expanded into a new, larger building and they started selling Brown Cow and Stonyfield Farms yogurt! I'm so excited. I've heard so many good things about Brown Cow from people here and I love Stonyfield's yogurt. Do they make any low-fat Brown Cow or is it all with the cream top? That's all I saw at the store. They also had this brand called Nancy's that looked good, too. I think Nancy's makes kefir, too.
23 years old
Diagnosed with UC March 2007; yet to go into remission
Asacol 4 tablets 3x/day
Rowasa (generic) - daily
Nature's Way Primadophilus Reuteri 1/day; Chewable multivitamin; Metamucil; Viactiv (Calcium and Vit. D); fish oil


Old Hat
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Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 5167
   Posted 1/18/2008 8:37 PM (GMT -6)   
Brown Cow makes nonfat, lowfat, & cream top yogurt. The cream top (whole milk) came out 1st, about 30 yrs ago. I prefer the nonfat vanilla, but generally have a hard time finding the 32 oz size. Whole Foods stocks it most consistently, from what I've been seeing in the chains. The lowfat is more recent to marketing; it seems to have added starch which I really don't want in yogurt. Happy hunting, Sara! I hope the new expanded health food store gets more of what you want/need. / Old Hat (nearly 30 yrs with left-sided UC ... [etc.])

Sara14
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 4034
   Posted 1/18/2008 8:46 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks Old Hat! I only saw the cream top, but if I ask they'll probably order some non-fat. It's a local co-op and they're usually really nice about ordering products for their customers. We don't have a Whole Foods around here. That Nancy's organic yogurt brand has 6 live culture strains and looks really good, too.
23 years old
Diagnosed with UC March 2007; yet to go into remission
Asacol 4 tablets 3x/day
Rowasa (generic) - daily
Nature's Way Primadophilus Reuteri 1/day; Chewable multivitamin; Metamucil; Viactiv (Calcium and Vit. D); fish oil


Old Hat
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 5167
   Posted 1/18/2008 9:17 PM (GMT -6)   
Sara-- Brown Cow vanilla yogurt on pumpkin pie is absolutely delish!!!!!!! I meant to write that when we did the Thanksgiving thread. I adore the cream top vanilla, but try to stick with the nonfat as I need fewer calories & fats at my age. The cream top has ca. 4 1/2 grams of fat in half a cup-- so if one eats it in place of ice cream, that's not too bad. (What I tell myself when I indulge!) Nancy's may be a regional brand; I've never seen it where I live but we have a local brand called Horizon. I'm grateful for any natural brands because Dannon held a near-monopoly on commercial yogurt for too long. / Old Hat
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