A question that has been on my mind lately.....

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Red_34
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   Posted 1/29/2008 9:42 AM (GMT -6)   
Uc attacks the colon right? So why does it ONLY attack the colon??  What makes the colon stand out from lets say the small intestine?  Do the doctors have a clue yet?  I know they don't know the exact cause of Uc so I'm assuming they don't know why yet it only attacks the large intestine right and only to the mucousal level?  I was just thinking about that the other day - what actually stops the "attack" from the immune system to have it just stop at the large intestine?  I'm looking for a simplified mechanical answer because if you all know me, I don't do well with medicalnese!  tongue
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princesscolon
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   Posted 1/29/2008 9:46 AM (GMT -6)   
I don't know... I thought it was because our bodies decided there was something offensive in there to attack. But good question, why only there?
Diagnosed with Left-sided Ulcerative Colitis 1995 at 15, Tried: Prednisone, Rowasa & Hydrocort. Enemas, Proctofoam, Sulfasalazine, Asacol, Probiotics, Fish Oil, Canasa, Enotcort, Colazol, Anamantle, etc... had almost recto-vaginal fistula in 2004, put on Remicade, August 2007:Increased Remicade dosage-700mg every 6 weeks,diagnosed w/ Psoriatic Arthritis & Fibromyalgia Current meds: Remicade 700mgs every 6 wks (had reaction, will start Humira Feb 11) Clorazepate, Proctofoam HC, Glucosamine 500, Vitamin B, Lomotil,  Tylenol pm, Lyrica for Fibromyalgia started 1/17/08


princesa
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Date Joined Aug 2007
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   Posted 1/29/2008 10:10 AM (GMT -6)   
If you work from the theory there's an unknown infectious agent in the colon - fungal, bacterial, mycobacterial, etc. and/or there's an imbalance of gut ecology - good, protective gut flora killed off by broad spectrum antibiotics, bad gut bugs allowed to overgrow, it makes sense that the attack is limited to the colon.
Diagnosed with ulcerative colitis spring 1999
 
Therapeutic dose sulfasalazine.
Probiotics, l-glutamine and fish oil caps. George's aloe vera juice and Mucosaheal.
 
 


damo123
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Date Joined Jul 2007
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   Posted 1/29/2008 10:58 AM (GMT -6)   
And why does the inflammation start in the rectum? Are we to assume the rectum is attacked first. This is the problem that people have with the gene theory of UC. If the gene theory is true that there's no reason that UC should always have a fixed starting point.
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500 mg Asacol suppository now and then!
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"There is no greater tragedy in life than doing nothing for fear of doing too little. May you live all the days of your life."
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Red_34
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Date Joined Apr 2004
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   Posted 1/29/2008 12:20 PM (GMT -6)   
I sort of think that IF the docs knew the answer to these questions, then they would know how to stop it right? I know our immune system is out of whack because look at some of the other immune issues we sometimes have to deal with. Such as arthritis, psoarasis etc. So the bad gut flora has some credibility due to the fact that we have such an overabundance of bad bacteria in our colons which is why our immune system attacks that usually first - mistaking our colons for foreign invaders. But it doesn't explain the other immune problems that can arise. I wish I could have a one on one talk with my immune system to figure out what it's doing! :)
 @--->--SHERRY--<---@
Moderator for Allergies/Asthma and Co-moderator for UC
~Left sided Uc -'92 - Colazal (9 daily), 6mp (50-100mgs), Colocort, Prilosec, Biotin, Forvia, Pro-Bio**Unable to tolerate Asacol, Rowasa or Canasa** ~Allergies - Allegra & Singulair
~Secondary Reynauds Syndrome - '04 - Norvasc~Fibromyalgia - '06~No meds
To help Healingwell - click here: DONATE
http://www.myspace.com/82595818
"The quality of my life depends on the quality of my thoughts."
 
 
 
 

 
 


damo123
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Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 714
   Posted 1/29/2008 12:45 PM (GMT -6)   
My answer to that is that the body works at a quantum level. Your whole immune system knows theres a problem in the bowel just as every cell of your body knows that you are fighting infection. If your immune system is active in one area then it leads to the possibility of it being active elsewhere.
800 mg Asacol a day
500 mg Asacol suppository now and then!
Fibre supplement, Iron supplment,Probioitcs
Balanced Diet, Reduced Stress
 
"There is no greater tragedy in life than doing nothing for fear of doing too little. May you live all the days of your life."
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


pb4
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Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20577
   Posted 1/29/2008 2:02 PM (GMT -6)   
The finding that tissue-associated flora of UC patients is broadly similar to that of healthy individuals and significantly different from that of CD patients may indicate that, beyond its obvious role in fuelling inflammation, the commensal flora has profoundly different roles in the etiologies of these diseases. Furthermore, since the differences in microflora between CD and UC patients appear relatively large and well-defined, this study should be followed by quantitative phylum level assessment in tissue-associated and fecal microbiotas of a large group of patients to establish their generality in multiple ethnic backgrounds and nutritional regimens. These differences could be used to diagnose cases of indeterminate colitis.

Different gut bacteria is involved between UC and CD and also the genetic component which causes IBD in the first place differ as well between CD and UC...different genes have been identified for CDers compared to UCers.

Basically, it's genetics that play a huge roll in the differences between CD and UC which is why different bacterias (in the small intestine and large) that are involved.

:)
My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it!  LOL  :)


princesa
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Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 2204
   Posted 1/29/2008 2:20 PM (GMT -6)   
Red_34 said...
I sort of think that IF the docs knew the answer to these questions, then they would know how to stop it right? I know our immune system is out of whack because look at some of the other immune issues we sometimes have to deal with. Such as arthritis, psoarasis etc. So the bad gut flora has some credibility due to the fact that we have such an overabundance of bad bacteria in our colons which is why our immune system attacks that usually first - mistaking our colons for foreign invaders. But it doesn't explain the other immune problems that can arise. I wish I could have a one on one talk with my immune system to figure out what it's doing! :)

An overgrowth of bad gut flora leads to a condition called "leaky gut" where insufficiently digested particles of food and/or harmful pathogens are able to cross the gut barrier and enter the bloodstream. At that point, you have a systemic condition that can affect the entire body.
 
Leo Galland said...
Inflammatory diseases of the bowel, including ulcerative colitis and Crohn's disease (ileitis), and several types of arthritis have been linked to aberrant immune responses provoked by intestinal bacteria. Two types of aberrancy have been described. First, intestinal bacteria contain proteins which look to the immune system very much like human proteins; they confuse the immune system and may fool the body into attacking itself. Second, fragments of dead bacteria may leak into the wall of the intestine or into the blood stream due to a breakdown in the mechanisms which regulate intestinal permeability. Circulating through the body, bacterial debris is deposited in tissues such as joints, provoking an attack on those tissues by an immune system trying to remove the foreign material.
Read the entire article here:
 
 
Therapeutic dose sulfasalazine.
Probiotics, l-glutamine and fish oil caps. George's aloe vera juice and Mucosaheal.
 
 


ithurtsmom
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 289
   Posted 1/29/2008 2:54 PM (GMT -6)   
My daughter started to flare while we were in Disney. I was told by her Dr. that any emotion can trigger a flare. My question is what chemical is released by the gut or brain during happy/sad emotions that would trigger a change in the colon flora causing a flare?
Joan
 
Daughter 5, UC
Pentasa 2X2 daily
Omega 3
Folic Acid 1000mcg.
Fiber
Probiotics
 


suebear
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Date Joined Feb 2006
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   Posted 1/29/2008 4:03 PM (GMT -6)   
And then how do you explain that if you have surgery for UC that some of us are cured of UC and other autoimmune diseases and others no longer have UC but continue to have other autoimmune problems? It's all baffling to me.

Sue
dx proctitis in 1987
dx UC in 1991, was stable until 1998
1998 started prednisone, asacol, pentasa, nortriptylene, ativan, 6MP, rowasa enemas and suppositories, hydrocortisone enemas, tried the SCD diet, being a vegetarian, omega 3s, flax, pranic healing, yoga, acupuncture, probiotics
2000 lost all my B-12 stores and became anemic
2001 opted for j-pouch surgery- now living life med-free
 


damo123
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Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 714
   Posted 1/29/2008 4:17 PM (GMT -6)   
I don't think the suggestion is that the fungal theory explains every single case of UC in the same way that stress is the cause for certain headaches but not for other headaches. Neither do I see the genetic theory of UC explaining the above point. It certainly is baffling though!

D
800 mg Asacol a day
500 mg Asacol suppository now and then!
Fibre supplement, Iron supplment,Probioitcs
Balanced Diet, Reduced Stress
 
"There is no greater tragedy in life than doing nothing for fear of doing too little. May you live all the days of your life."
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


relativelyquantum
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 196
   Posted 1/29/2008 4:46 PM (GMT -6)   

You know I scanned in a chapter of book last night that discusses how the immune system basically functions, how it goes out of wack and can cause autoimmune conditions--I think it (providentially?) applies today--how convienent :)  I'll do my best to post it tonight for any interested.

It does seem reasonable that different microbes might be part of the cause, because different species may better inhabit different areas of the body.  Also, the body may not recognize the bacteria that as benign, because the immune system is somehow associating them with something bad.  Research has also shown the immune system to react to nonthreating material, like pollen, when the subject is exposed to antibiotics.  Certain bacteria (i.e. probiotics) 'help' our immune system to function properly, so wiping them out can cause other lasting affects.  Maybe the genetics give a better clue as to what and where the disease will be, or how it will be manifested.  Intriguing ideas...


Pancolitis '04
Yet to ever go into remission, additional Flare-up since Aug 12th
Time off work since 10/17.  Returned to work on 1/11 and doing much better.
 
On Lialda (2/dy), Probiotics, Fish Oil, Folic Acid, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Borage Oil, Iron


UCinGV
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 403
   Posted 1/29/2008 5:30 PM (GMT -6)   
I've heard that a huge portion of your immune system is focused on your intestines, trying to keep all those germs from getting into your system. Autoimmune diseases, like UC might be, are a result of an overly active immune system. So it would make sense that an overly reactive immune system would focus on where it normally focuses - on the intestine.
12 Asacol
100 mg Imuran


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20577
   Posted 1/29/2008 5:54 PM (GMT -6)   
70% of the immune system is connected to the intestinal tract....not necessarily an over-active immune system but a confused one is the problem related to IBD.

:)
My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it!  LOL  :)


princesa
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 2204
   Posted 1/29/2008 6:11 PM (GMT -6)   
ithurtsmom said...
My daughter started to flare while we were in Disney. I was told by her Dr. that any emotion can trigger a flare. My question is what chemical is released by the gut or brain during happy/sad emotions that would trigger a change in the colon flora causing a flare?

Emotions or stress don't cause a flare, as such, but can certainly exacerbate symptoms. There is a very strong connection between the brain/emotions and the gut. Some of us are more easily affected than others. I clearly recall having numerous "stomach aches" as a child that were brought on by my parents constantly fighting or my fear of school... basically, anything stressful or upsetting.
 
There's a whole book on the subject called The Second Brain, although I found it difficult to plow through.
 
 
Therapeutic dose sulfasalazine.
Probiotics, l-glutamine and fish oil caps. George's aloe vera juice and Mucosaheal. Oregano oil antibiotic, antiviral, antifungal.
 
 


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20577
   Posted 1/29/2008 7:14 PM (GMT -6)   

Stress and UC...

 

http://aapgrandrounds.aappublications.org/cgi/content/extract/16/5/56-a

 

:)


My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it!  LOL  :)


relativelyquantum
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 196
   Posted 1/30/2008 12:02 AM (GMT -6)   
Check out my homepage on my profile. I posted a pdf on the section about the immune system function for the layman that I mentioned earlier. It may take a little time to get through but it is well worth it. If someone wants it sent via email instead, just email me. 
 
Oh, hope you don't mind my underlining.


Pancolitis '04
Yet to ever go into remission, additional Flare-up since Aug 12th
Time off work since 10/17.  Returned to work on 1/11 and doing much better.
 
On Lialda (2/dy), Probiotics, Fish Oil, Folic Acid, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Borage Oil, Iron

Post Edited (relativelyquantum) : 1/29/2008 10:06:14 PM (GMT-7)

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