Remember this about Docs and Pharmacists

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blueclassring
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 385
   Posted 2/28/2008 7:57 PM (GMT -6)   
you can't blame docs for the way they are.  As a pharmacy student, we are trained to treat the patients/customers with drugs. That is all we study. It is the same for med students.  There is little room in our curriculum for suggesting alternative means of dealing with disease like diet and probiotics/herbs/alternative treatments.  Almost no mention of it at all.  So when a doc pushes a medication on you, it's typically because he has read studies about the efficacy of it and so on.  Or the local drug rep is pushing him to prescribe it, so he gets a bonus. 
 
Unfortunately, alternative treatments are not being studied by drug companies so there is no way to realistically back them up with science. (Why would a drug company want to determine if an alternative treatment works and cut into their profits?  There response is they are in the business of manufacturing drugs.)  So for the most part, we have dozens of case histories of alternative treatments working successfully(ie success with diets or probiotics) but no clinical studies to back them up. 

 

 

 

Edited for excessive signature length. Please review the rules on signatures.

Post Edited By Moderator (Judilyn) : 2/28/2008 7:53:05 PM (GMT-7)


Rio in Maryland
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 891
   Posted 2/28/2008 8:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Also, a lot of alternative treatments do not have 'certified' or extensive clinical research to back them up.  So even if they may seem to work, doctors exercise caution on recommending them so as to avoid any potential lawsuits down the road.
Rio, 31 yr old male - diagnosed with UC in 07/2006.
 
Alternative therapies for several months (SCD, ayurvedic treatment, VSL#3): didn't work and became anaemic. Canasa, 2 daily: remission for a month then flared-up.
07/07-11/07: 4800mg Asacol (6 x 400mg, twice a day) & Aloe Elite.
Completed first (6 week) tapered course of Pred in 10/07, flaring up since coming off it.
11/07: Switched from Asacol to 12 x 750mg Colazal (3 weeks on it and symptoms got worse)
12/07: Asacol 4800 mg, Started Azathioprene 175mg, Prednisone taper from 60mg - Now on alternate days of 20mg and 10mg; 2/08: added 1 Pentasa x 1mg.


tjf
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 3238
   Posted 2/28/2008 8:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Blueclassring....I know in your posts you are trying to help our members w/ med. questions. From a liability standpoint (and I would think on your end too) we can't give anyone "professional" advice. I'm not necessarily referring to this particular posts but some other ones I have read. I didn't know if you were checking those regularly so I haven't left you a message there.

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Tabitha (Tab)

100mg Azathioprine, 2 Fibercon, Colazal-9 a day, Acidopholis Pearls, Nexium

http://www.healingwell.com/donate
Co-Moderator UC Forum


blueclassring
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 385
   Posted 2/28/2008 9:19 PM (GMT -6)   
i can't give any professional advice at this point in my career since I do not have a license. I do want to advise those that want to follow the diet to check with their doctor and not discontinue any medications without their knowledge. I will not give any professional advise because this would be a liability issue with me as well.
Pharmacy Student
Class of 2009, MWU

Diagnosed 8/99.  Suffered for almost 10 years.  I am currently on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet and am nearning remission.  I feel fantastic!  My next goal is to gain the 15 lbs I lost 6 weeks ago and start living life again.  I have lost so many years to this disease. 


I decided to become a pharmacist to understand these drugs, and to help fellow sufferers of IBD.  My goal is to open up a pharmacy and take care of my patients(particularly explaining what the drugs do to you), compound special medications, and have a great practice. 

3200 mg Asacol, 5 mg prednisone
HAVE YOU CONSIDERED THE SCD DIET? IT HAS PUT ME IN REMISSION AND I PLAN ON GETTING OFF THE ASACOL SOON TOO!


blueclassring
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 385
   Posted 2/28/2008 9:24 PM (GMT -6)   

take my "advice" as personal experience


Pharmacy Student, Class of 2009.  Diagnosed 8/99.  Suffered for almost 10 years.  I am currently on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet and am nearing remission.  I feel fantastic!    I have lost so many years to this disease.  I decided to become a pharmacist to understand these drugs, and to help fellow sufferers of IBD.  My goal is to open up a pharmacy and take care of my patients(particularly explaining what the drugs do to you), compound special medications, and have a great practice. HAVE YOU CONSIDERED THE SCD DIET? IT HAS PUT ME IN REMISSION AND I PLAN ON GETTING OFF THE ASACOL SOON TOO!
Meds 3200 mg Asacol, 2.5 mg Prednisone

Post Edited (blueclassring) : 2/28/2008 8:28:58 PM (GMT-7)


jujub
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 10407
   Posted 2/28/2008 10:52 PM (GMT -6)   
Blueclassring, thank you for editing your signature.
Judy
 
Moderate to severe left-sided UC (21 cm) diagnosed 2001.
Asacol, Rowasa, Pentasa, Prednisone, Entocort, Azathioprine
Colazal,  Remicade, Nature's Way Primadophilus Reuteri.
In remission since April, 2006. Remicade has been my wonder drug.
 
Co-Moderator UC Forum


kb5
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 1015
   Posted 2/29/2008 8:25 AM (GMT -6)   
My father in law is a pharmacist and has been a great help to me over the years. He is the first call I make when I get a new medication or need info about interactions or such. I think pharmacists are underutilized.

On anthother note...some drug companies are interested in using alternatives. A few years back i did a trial for an all natural aloe vera byproduct "drug" It was a powder i mixed up four times a day for two months. After two weeks I had a sig and my GI told me I was 90% healed. Unfortuenaly this drug never made it through testing. Don't know why, i wish i did!!! hopefully they will continue to look at using natural elements in their new drugs.
Kelly, 29

Left sided UC diagnosed 1/98 age 19, Pan colitis diagnosed 1/07
Currently on 4x3 Asacol, started at 60 mg 1/07, 15 mg pred, down to 10 mg 1/11/08...down to 10/5...
75mg Imuran starting 8/23/07---bumped to 100mg 10/8/07--bumped to 125 11/14/07...
Taken off of Imuran temporarily 1/11/08-back on 1/16/08 now at 150mg imuran
waiting to be scheduled for remicade.
Prontonix once daily for acid reflux, zofran twice daily for nausea, darvocet for pain
antispasmodics didn't work.


Sara14
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 4190
   Posted 2/29/2008 9:08 AM (GMT -6)   
I've definitely had some frustrating experiences with doctors, but I love my local pharmacy. My pharmacist is always very helpful and willing to answer my med-related questions. He even knows me by name, which kind of makes it a little friendlier/more welcoming of an atmosphere. I've never gotten that kind of service when I used to go to large chain pharmacies, like Walgreens or Shopko.
24 years old
Diagnosed with UC March 2007; yet to go into complete remission
Asacol 4 tablets 3x/day
Rowasa (generic) - nightly; Canasa (1,000 mg) in the morning
Nature's Way Primadophilus Reuteri 2/day; Chewable multivitamin; Metamucil; Viactiv
 
For a minute there, I lost myself, I lost myself...


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20577
   Posted 2/29/2008 1:24 PM (GMT -6)   
Well, in my experiance tradtional oral RX has done nothing for me and when I told my GI about the natural anti-inflammatories I was taking and how they helped me, he urged me to continue with them so not everything is black and white when it comes to this issue...many doctors do recognize that the natural route can also be a benefit...afterall it's technically been around longer than man-made meds, and no one can dispute that.
 
And, I'm not knocking the RX either because I'm well aware that they have given many people their lives back (I sometimes wonder at what cost) but nothing is perfect in this world, since there can be possible harm in some of the natural products as well that's why I use 100% non-toxic ones...whatever works, stick with it and hope for the best.
 

:)


My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it!  LOL  :)

Post Edited (pb4) : 2/29/2008 12:31:42 PM (GMT-7)


blueclassring
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 385
   Posted 2/29/2008 1:46 PM (GMT -6)   
i definitely intend on opening a pharmacy that is more patient/customer oriented. no one explained to me how 6-mp worked or what it was supposed to do to my body. (neither the doc or the pharmacist at Walgreens!)
Pharmacy Student, Class of 2009.  Diagnosed 8/99.  Suffered for almost 10 years.  I am currently on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet and am nearing remission.  I feel fantastic!    I have lost so many years to this disease.  I decided to become a pharmacist to understand these drugs, and to help fellow sufferers of IBD.  My goal is to open up a pharmacy and take care of my patients(particularly explaining what the drugs do to you), compound special medications, and have a great practice. HAVE YOU CONSIDERED THE SCD DIET? IT HAS PUT ME IN REMISSION AND I PLAN ON GETTING OFF THE ASACOL SOON TOO!  (In remission since 2/15/08)
Meds 3200 mg Asacol, 2.5 mg Prednisone.  Doc wanted to put me on 6-mp or Remicade, but I refused to take the medications!  For me, diet works...


princesa
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 2204
   Posted 2/29/2008 2:01 PM (GMT -6)   
blueclassring said...
i definitely intend on opening a pharmacy that is more patient/customer oriented. no one explained to me how 6-mp worked or what it was supposed to do to my body. (neither the doc or the pharmacist at Walgreens!)

That's why it's up to the patient to research all treatment options and educate himself. It's your body. Make an informed choice. I'm amazed at the number of people who blindly accept whatever meds or procedures are thrown at them without question or explanation.
Diagnosed with ulcerative colitis spring 1999.
 
Therapeutic dose sulfasalazine.
Probiotics, l-glutamine and fish oil caps. George's aloe vera juice and Mucosaheal. Oregano oil antibiotic, antiviral, antifungal.
 
 


blueclassring
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 385
   Posted 2/29/2008 6:25 PM (GMT -6)   
i disagree. it's up to the doctor or pharmacist you inform you about the possible side effects or the best treatments available. most of this is omitted from conventional practice of medicine or pharmacy.
Pharmacy Student, Class of 2009.  Diagnosed 8/99.  Suffered for almost 10 years.  I am currently on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet and am nearing remission.  I feel fantastic!    I have lost so many years to this disease.  I decided to become a pharmacist to understand these drugs, and to help fellow sufferers of IBD.  My goal is to open up a pharmacy and take care of my patients(particularly explaining what the drugs do to you), compound special medications, and have a great practice. HAVE YOU CONSIDERED THE SCD DIET? IT HAS PUT ME IN REMISSION AND I PLAN ON GETTING OFF THE ASACOL SOON TOO!  (In remission since 2/15/08)
Meds 3200 mg Asacol, 2.5 mg Prednisone.  Doc wanted to put me on 6-mp or Remicade, but I refused to take the medications!  For me, diet works...


Sara14
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 4190
   Posted 2/29/2008 6:50 PM (GMT -6)   
I agree with blueclassring. I think it's part of the doctor and pharmacist's responsibility to inform their patients. Obviously, it's still a good idea for the patient herself to learn as much as she can on her own as well.
24 years old
Diagnosed with UC March 2007; yet to go into complete remission
Asacol 4 tablets 3x/day
Rowasa (generic) - nightly; Canasa (1,000 mg) in the morning
Nature's Way Primadophilus Reuteri 2/day; Chewable multivitamin; Metamucil; Viactiv
 
For a minute there, I lost myself, I lost myself...


blueclassring
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 385
   Posted 3/1/2008 1:32 AM (GMT -6)   
If you were at a car repair shop, and the mechanic told you that he needed to replace the catalytic converter would you be satisfied with the repair without an explanation? I seriously think that Pharmacy practice at your local Walgreen's or CVS should work on that and so should your doctors!!!
Pharmacy Student, Class of 2009.  Diagnosed 8/99.  Suffered for almost 10 years.  I am currently on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet and am nearing remission.  I feel fantastic!    I have lost so many years to this disease.  I decided to become a pharmacist to understand these drugs, and to help fellow sufferers of IBD.  My goal is to open up a pharmacy and take care of my patients(particularly explaining what the drugs do to you), compound special medications, and have a great practice. HAVE YOU CONSIDERED THE SCD DIET? IT HAS PUT ME IN REMISSION AND I PLAN ON GETTING OFF THE ASACOL SOON TOO!  (In remission since 2/15/08)
Meds 3200 mg Asacol, 2.5 mg Prednisone.  Doc wanted to put me on 6-mp or Remicade, but I refused to take the medications!  For me, diet works...


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20577
   Posted 3/1/2008 3:02 PM (GMT -6)   
In my 17 yrs of experiance with IBD and GI's (I've had 4, just as I wouldn't take my car into just any garage either)...most GI's have such a chip on their shoulders they shove an RX at you without explanation because they figure that it'll be beyond the patients comprehension. If you let them treat you that way once, they'll continue treating you that way....Never had issues with pharmacists but from my experiance over many yrs they know what meds do and where I live, they send you home with literature for every RX you get filled, maybe in Canada it's protocol because I remember when I got prednisone (which no longer works for me) I got pages of all the side effects, short and long term.

:)
My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it!  LOL  :)


kb5
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 1015
   Posted 3/1/2008 3:11 PM (GMT -6)   
That's why i love my Gi. He makes sure that everyone in the room understands what he is prescribing and why. I always bring someone and he makes sure they understand as well as I do. When i had my husband go for the first time he went through every little detail making sure to explain past actions to him as well. I feel very lucky to have a Gi I like (and i've been through several as well!)
Kelly, 29

Left sided UC diagnosed 1/98 age 19, Pan colitis diagnosed 1/07
Currently on 4x3 Asacol, started at 60 mg 1/07, 15 mg pred, down to 10 mg 1/11/08...down to 10/5...
75mg Imuran starting 8/23/07---bumped to 100mg 10/8/07--bumped to 125 11/14/07...
Taken off of Imuran temporarily 1/11/08-back on 1/16/08 now at 150mg imuran
waiting to be scheduled for remicade.
Prontonix once daily for acid reflux, zofran twice daily for nausea, darvocet for pain
antispasmodics didn't work.


serendipity24
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 56
   Posted 3/1/2008 9:11 PM (GMT -6)   
Both parties need to take responsibility! There isn't a blame game here. We get informational packets on every Rx bought here in the US too, but it's up to us to read it. Also, all the docs I know (GI's, PCP's, GP's, etc) ask at the end of every appointment if they were clear, or if you, as the patient, have any questions. Take a list to your appointments, write down what you want to ask, ask questions that come up along the way. Be responsible for your own health. Frankly, as much training as medical care professionals get, most of them don't have our disease. They honestly can't relate to what we're going through beyond a strong sense of empathy and support. And they have pagers for a reason. They want to help us, but we have to help them help us too.
Rachel

23 yrs old
Diagnosed with UC: March 2004 with probable IBS component

Currently taking:
Asacol 4pills 3x/day
Prograf 5mg/day
(Prograf is my miracle drug! It doesn't seem to be well known, but it's fantastic!)

Previously Tried:
Prednisone (works, but such awful side effects!), 6-MP (gave me acute pancreatitis), Entocort, Cipro (antibiotic), Bentyl, Canasa suppositories, a couple different enemas


jujub
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 10407
   Posted 3/1/2008 10:45 PM (GMT -6)   
I'll never forget the first time I suggested to my GI (when I was first seeing him) that "we" try something. He gave me a very funny look. By now he knows me well enough to know that I'm a partner in my care, and he is good with that. I think he was just shocked because so many people are too intimidated by the "authority" figure to ask questions or make suggestions.

And most pharmacies keep a list of your drugs on their computer and will warn you of interactions. For example, when I was recently put on Erythromycin (another one of those drugs from Satan), the pharmacist came to the pick-up window to call my attention to the warning and to also remind me verbally to stop my Lipitor for two days before taking it and not to resume it for three days after finishing the erythromycin. I was glad he did that, because I'd forgotten about the interaction between the two.
Judy
 
Moderate to severe left-sided UC (21 cm) diagnosed 2001.
Asacol, Rowasa, Pentasa, Prednisone, Entocort, Azathioprine
Colazal,  Remicade, Nature's Way Primadophilus Reuteri.
In remission since April, 2006. Remicade has been my wonder drug.
 
Co-Moderator UC Forum


Old Hat
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 5182
   Posted 3/2/2008 5:35 PM (GMT -6)   
"Informed consent" should be the guiding principle in these interactions, but it gets cast off for various reasons-- usually because health pros like doctors are always in a rush. What I especially hate is having a liability waiver form shoved at me to sign split seconds before the colonoscopy sedative is administered. It has something to do with hospital or state health regulations or both, & I've been intending to find a channel for written complaint about that for ages ... something else to do! But, really, like they can't ask you to sign the form while you're still dressed & totally lucid ... ? This is just one example of illogic in the health care system where patient ease/comfort seems not to have been taken into account. / Old Hat (nearly 30 yrs with left-sided UC ... [etc.])

dakotagirl
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 3402
   Posted 3/2/2008 6:02 PM (GMT -6)   
My last GI was wonderful. Before I started Imuran, he discussed the side effects with me - had a sheet typed up and everything - and then after we discussed it, he made me sign it. I understand that's not the norm, but I really appreciated it!

I do a lot of reading on www.pdrhealth.com and www.rxlist.com before and while I take a med.
Pan-colitis and GERD diagnosed May 2003
 
Asacol 12 per day,  Azathioprine 75mg, Aciphex, Effexor XR, Forvia and a Probiotic
Osteopenia (hip and spine) from prednisone use.  Started Azathioprine because I was steroid dependent.
 
Co-Mod for the UC forum
Keep HealingWell running smoothly:  www.healingwell.com/donate


Winter
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 210
   Posted 3/2/2008 6:37 PM (GMT -6)   
I really like my pharmacists. They are really great at explaining things. Once I had an upper respistory infection & was giving amoxcillian. My pharmacist called my Dr back to get the script changed because he said that it could elavated my methotrexate.

Asacol 6 tablets twice daily
Remicade every 8 weeks
Folid Acid daily
Methotrexate 3 times a week
Iron supplements
 


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20577
   Posted 3/2/2008 8:05 PM (GMT -6)   
I think as a rule of thumb it is part of the pharmacists job to inform patients of their RX and as far as the docs go, well that's entirely up to the doc since they usually do overbook patients they often just get to the basics of their jobs...anyone who has a doc that spends proper time with them is lucky because it's not the norm anymore in most places.

:)
My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it!  LOL  :)


Lonie
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2005
Total Posts : 6448
   Posted 3/2/2008 9:04 PM (GMT -6)   
Gotta' say my docs and pharmacist's together are A-1. And it's an HMO.....Kaiser! :-)
Carol

Remicade - will have my 21th infusion on April 17.
Vitamin B-12/Biotin, Probiotics
 
Co-Moderator for the UC Forum
 
 

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