crohns and uc together??

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aneerby
New Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 15
   Posted 8/3/2008 10:01 AM (GMT -6)   
hey guys. went back to my gi doc on friday. he did a partial colonoscopy in june when i started having all my problems and found ulcerative proctitis (uc of rectum) which a biopsy confirmed and put me on asacol. since i am still having pain, and its mostly on my right side, he is going to do full colonoscopy. he said something about it could be crohns with it hurting there, but i am confused because of the ulcerative proctitis. can you have both crohns and uc????
26,
Diagnosed with UC June 2008. On Asacol...many questions still unanswered


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20577
   Posted 8/3/2008 12:12 PM (GMT -6)   
You can have both but it's very rare (2-5%) chance of having both...you have a better chance of being misDX with UC when instead you have crohn's...the same meds used to treat UC are used for CD when CD is affecting the colon/rectom, so that doesn't change, it's just that with CD your entire GI tract is vulnerable to disease and fistulas might be more of a concern, granted not every crohnie gets fistulas either.

:)
My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it!  LOL  :)


quincy
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 30828
   Posted 8/3/2008 1:21 PM (GMT -6)   
My doc says one or the other...but to quote pb4 "never say never" (smilies).....there is a lot of misdiagnosis especially with CD in the early stages that mimics UC.

There are some who have a form of UC where the rectum is involved and the cecum with no inflammation between. That could be a possibilty for you.

I'm surprised/disappointed that your doc has you only on Asacol if you were diagnosed with limited to the rectum UC.

Keep us updated on the outcome.
quincy
*Heather*Status: mini flare Dec 28... tapered to every 4th night
~diagnosed January 1989 UC (proctosigmoiditis)
~5ASA: Asacol (6 daily) + Salofalk enemas (increase for flares tapered to maintenance)
~Bentylol (dicyclomine) 20mg as needed
~vitamins/minerals/supplements 
~Probiotic 3(Natural Factors Protec) bedtime + 1 (Primadophilus Reuteri) occasionally
~multi-digestive enzymes as needed ....zymactive 3 - 5x daily
~Ranitidine,Pariet (reflux) Effexor XR 75mg;  Pulmicort/Airomir (asthma)
~URSO for PSC (or PBC) 500mg X 2 daily (LFTs back to NORMAL!!)
My doc's logic.. "TREAT (FROM)BOTH ENDS"  worth it !!!


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20577
   Posted 8/3/2008 8:49 PM (GMT -6)   


My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it!  LOL  :)


Irish_Mom
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 385
   Posted 8/3/2008 9:05 PM (GMT -6)   
From what I've heard from my GI and the doc that I work for, it's either one or the other but not both. Our son was originally diagnosed with Crohn's, but after a recent severe flare that required blood transfusions, his GI came out after the scope saying that he thought it was UC and not Crohn's. (Son was originally diagnosed in the Bay Area) During this last scope it was found that he also had ulcerative protitis and that's one thing that made the doc question the Bay Area docs diagnosis. Sons doc also said that UC patients are the ones that usually bleed, so that was another clue. So we went ahead and ordered the Prometheus Lab IBD-9 panel and it came back showing that it's most likely (98%) UC.

Terri
 
_________________________________________________________________________________
Breast Cancer at 37; bilateral mastectomy with reconstruction.
Colon resection 2004; Sub-Total colectomy September 2007 for colonic inertia - didn't work.
Son with UC; taking Asacol and 6MP with Prednisone and Rowasa added during flareups. Recently diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis - now on Humira.
Husband with ankylosing spondylitis and psoriatic arthritis.


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20577
   Posted 8/3/2008 11:11 PM (GMT -6)   
Untrue, I have crohn's colitis (CD affecting the colon) and I bleed (or should say I used to, I have it under control with bee propolis now) and it's fact, one patient can have both, it's just very rare...check out the credible links I've posted above.

The main differences between UC and CD are, with UC the entire area will be inflammed, with CD there are skipped patterns of inflammation, also, with UC the inflammation is surfacable only, with CD it can go beneith the many layers of the intestinal lining which often is what will lead to fistulas which is why fistulas are associated with crohn's and not UC.

:)


My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it!  LOL  :)

Post Edited (pb4) : 8/3/2008 11:24:44 PM (GMT-6)


quincy
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 30828
   Posted 8/4/2008 1:40 AM (GMT -6)   
I would question the documentation from 1983..mistakes are always made in biopsies.

I'm not saying never...but if rare is rare...I'd say that most who believe they have both probably don't based on misdiagnosis or misunderstanding of terms. It sounds realllly good go say I don't have one but both.
Especially since the term colitis to many means UC.

Terri...I've read that the amount of bleeding seems to be more with UC than CD...it could have something to do with where one's CD is compared to others...and what amount/depth of the colon wall is affected.
Something to clear up with the doc.

Fistulas have been associated with non-CD patients as well as CD...Snce there is a form of CD called fistuising CD I would think it could be a determining factor..one of a list of criteria..
 
p4....interesting link:
 
 
q
 


*Heather*Status: mini flare Dec 28... tapered to every 4th night
~diagnosed January 1989 UC (proctosigmoiditis)
~5ASA: Asacol (6 daily) + Salofalk enemas (increase for flares tapered to maintenance)
~Bentylol (dicyclomine) 20mg as needed
~vitamins/minerals/supplements 
~Probiotic 3(Natural Factors Protec) bedtime + 1 (Primadophilus Reuteri) occasionally
~multi-digestive enzymes as needed ....zymactive 3 - 5x daily
~Ranitidine,Pariet (reflux) Effexor XR 75mg;  Pulmicort/Airomir (asthma)
~URSO for PSC (or PBC) 500mg X 2 daily (LFTs back to NORMAL!!)
My doc's logic.. "TREAT (FROM)BOTH ENDS"  worth it !!!

Post Edited (quincy) : 8/4/2008 12:44:25 AM (GMT-6)


damo123
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 714
   Posted 8/4/2008 4:37 AM (GMT -6)   
The probability of having UC or CD is 1 in 10,000. Having one disease does not influence you having the second. Thus the probaiblity of having both is 1 in 10,000 squared or 1 chance in 100 million. Pretty remote!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Med free for a bit as I needed a break from Asacol
 
Probiotics
 
"Whatever you do in life don't berate yourself too much nor contragulate yourself too much. Your choices are half chance. So are everybody elses'"
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


aneerby
New Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 15
   Posted 8/4/2008 6:31 AM (GMT -6)   

thanks for the info. i have to wait until aug 29 for my colonoscopy. if that is by some chance inconclusive, they will do a pill camera test. this is frustrating

as for meds, i think i need a higher dose or something, the asacol helped my symptoms for a couple of weeks and reduced bleeding but now the constant pain is back and i have intermittant bleeding :(


26,
Diagnosed with UC June 2008. On Asacol...many questions still unanswered


quincy
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 30828
   Posted 8/4/2008 2:23 PM (GMT -6)   
You need to be on rectal meds...plain and simple.

q
*Heather*Status: mini flare Dec 28... tapered to every 4th night
~diagnosed January 1989 UC (proctosigmoiditis)
~5ASA: Asacol (6 daily) + Salofalk enemas (increase for flares tapered to maintenance)
~Bentylol (dicyclomine) 20mg as needed
~vitamins/minerals/supplements 
~Probiotic 3(Natural Factors Protec) bedtime + 1 (Primadophilus Reuteri) occasionally
~multi-digestive enzymes as needed ....zymactive 3 - 5x daily
~Ranitidine,Pariet (reflux) Effexor XR 75mg;  Pulmicort/Airomir (asthma)
~URSO for PSC (or PBC) 500mg X 2 daily (LFTs back to NORMAL!!)
My doc's logic.. "TREAT (FROM)BOTH ENDS"  worth it !!!


aneerby
New Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 15
   Posted 8/4/2008 8:42 PM (GMT -6)   
rectal meds sound kinda gross....do they help a lot?

26,
Diagnosed with UC June 2008. On Asacol...many questions still unanswered


quincy
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 30828
   Posted 8/4/2008 11:22 PM (GMT -6)   
For 19+ years positive...I'd say yes.

They're gross? Can't imagine any worse than being focussed on our butts with bleeding, multiple bms, diarrhea, white-knuckling bms, pain, butt cramping, urgency and fear of pooping in one's pants....etc.

So, you stick a med up your butt....consider THAT's where the UC starts and it's the last place to heal....

Yeah, they help...and the most pitiful part of it is that many doctors don't prescribe them because they don't think patients will use them ( maybe their own butt fears)...or they take the initial route of prescribing prednisone. Now, THAT'S gross to me.

quincy
*Heather*Status: mini flare Dec 28... tapered to every 4th night
~diagnosed January 1989 UC (proctosigmoiditis)
~5ASA: Asacol (6 daily) + Salofalk enemas (increase for flares tapered to maintenance)
~Bentylol (dicyclomine) 20mg as needed
~vitamins/minerals/supplements 
~Probiotic 3(Natural Factors Protec) bedtime + 1 (Primadophilus Reuteri) occasionally
~multi-digestive enzymes as needed ....zymactive 3 - 5x daily
~Ranitidine,Pariet (reflux) Effexor XR 75mg;  Pulmicort/Airomir (asthma)
~URSO for PSC (or PBC) 500mg X 2 daily (LFTs back to NORMAL!!)
My doc's logic.. "TREAT (FROM)BOTH ENDS"  worth it !!!

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