Western Diet - WHY it sucks for me and why I think its connected to UC

by bowel transplants...I believe you're meaning small bowel? They're a stop-gap measure, to prevent more damage I believe.

Regarding autoimmune going against Darwin's theory of evolution....that's taking into consideration more the fact that we marry the strongest with the best genes for continued procreation and a stronger people. Not so when we have our own desires and not run on instinct.
We also create our environment in order to enjoy it rather than force ourselves to adapt forcing change.

What will change is our ability to create a stronger body eventually, but with the exposure of a wide range of variables...our environment is the size of the world, not limited as with may animals. The body has a constant bombardment in which to adjust seems never ending, for what man creates, it'll take many generations to adapt to just one change.

This isn't stat related, obviously...just based on observance  as me being from 2 familits  which has lots of inherited autoimmune and non-autoimmune disorders  (although today, the definition/realisation of autoimmune is expanding)..but in simplistic thinking, procreating continued predisposition/tendencies of autoimmune disease can be one path to human destruction if there were no medications to enable us to continue to live. That in itself unfortunately doesn't create a strong evolution unless the tendency genes are forever eliminated from our DNA.

quincy

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*Heather* Status..Asacol 6 (3 twice daily); enemas every 4th night

~diagnosed January 1989 UC (proctosigmoiditis)

~Bentylol (dicyclomine) 20mg as needed

~vitamins/minerals/supplements 

~Probiotics....(Natural Factors Protec 2 or 3  +   1 or 2 Primadophilus Reuteri Pearls @ bedtime

~multi-digestive enzymes as needed

~Ranitidine,Pariet (reflux);  Effexor XR 75mg(depression);  Pulmicort/Airomir (asthma)

~URSO for PSC (or PBC) 500mg X 2 daily (LFTs back to NORMAL!!)

My doc's logic.. "TREAT (FROM)BOTH ENDS"  worth it !!!

 

Post Edited (quincy) : 11/29/2008 2:11:15 AM (GMT-7)

damo, I've never seen a study that stated a transplant has ever kept one in remission (cured) only one I came across was when a patient had almost 20 yrs of remission but did infact become ill again.

Crazytrain, it's not ridiculous, it's genetics...

You may have simply reached remission when you introduced friendly bacteria (even I saw improvements but not full remission).

Anti-fungals is also not a guarantee of a cure, but could very well lead to a remission, doesn't mean that another flare won't happen.

The immune system is alot more complex than what you're giving it credit for and dealing with a messed up immune system is even more complex. Certain foods can be aggrivating even to a healthy person and that may have something to do with food intolerance, if an IBDer has food intolerances they are unaware of that could very well be aggrivating their IBD symptoms.

People go in and out of remission for a number of reasons I'm sure, some who have achieved remission by eating "right" go back to eating garbage and that could bring on another flare, or they get into remission with their meds and then decide to stop taking their maintenance meds and that could cause a flare, and it could also just be the nature of the beast of IBD, obviously much still needs to be learned. But what has been learned shouldn't be disregarded either.

A diet high in carbs and sugar is naturally going to cause an inflammatory affect be it for someone who is predisposed to getting an IBD (genetics) or heart disease or other inflammatory diseases.

For many it does "happen" in other parts of the body that's why for many they suffer with extraintestinal manifestations, arthritis (also and inflammatory response) skin issues (also related to inflammation) eye issues (also inflammatory). It's the genetics of IBD that one must be predisposed to getting it and then it's a matter of it being triggered and there could be many triggers, smoking is one KNOWN trigger for crohn's disease and that includes second-hand smoke, but smoking also has an anti-inflammatory affect in the colon via the carbon monoxide which can aid with UCers.

The malfunctioning immune system is confused and trying to kill off good bacteria thinking that it's an envador and not realizing it's a "friend" and this is what causes the inflammation. The immune system is doing this because it's getting mixed or wrong signals to do so but it has been programmed by genetics to do this once it's been "triggered" to do it thus bringing out the disease and causing symptoms of the disease.

:)

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My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it! LOL :)

Pb4, I'm unsure what you mean by tansplant in this case. My argument is a statistical one. Simply that the clinical understanding of IBD cannot be deduced from a single or even a few thousand case histories. Neither can they be used as a counter example when we dont even know for sure what we are trying to disprove.

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Probiotics and maintenance 5ASA's in rectal form

"Whatever you do in life don't berate yourself too much nor contragulate yourself too much. Your choices are half chance. So are everybody elses'"

 

 

 

 

 

 

Researchers do not yet know what causes inflammatory bowel disease. Therefore, IBD is called an idiopathic disease (disease with an unknown cause).

An unknown factor/agent (or a combination of factors) triggers the body’s immune system to produce an inflammatory reaction in the intestinal tract that continues without control. As a result of the inflammatory reaction, the intestinal wall is damaged leading to bloody diarrhea and abdominal pain.

Genetic, infectious, immunologic, and psychological factors have all been implicated in influencing the development of IBD.

There is a genetic predisposition (or perhaps susceptibility) to the development of IBD. However, the triggering factor for activation of the body’s immune system has yet to be identified. Factors that can turn on the body’s immune system include an infectious agent (as yet unidentified), an immune response to an antigen (eg, protein from cow milk), or an autoimmune process. As the intestines are always exposed to things that can cause immune reactions, more recent thinking is that there is a failure of the body to turn off normal immune responses.

:)

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My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it! LOL :)

pb4 I can explain a lot with a single hypothesis. That there is a pathogenic bacteria, fungus or parasite that is causing a mess .
How would you explain all of these points with a defective immune disorder hypothesis?


Localized in the large intestine and disappears once surgically removed - pathogen lives only in the intestine and is removed
Flares come on go over decades - the pathogen persists for decades.
The disorder can start at any time even later in life - once the pathogen is in and goes out of control
There is an inflamatory response - the immune system tries to fight it
Bad diet, carbs and sugar worsen it - it feeds the pathogen or counters friendly bacteria
Probiotics, good diet help it - friendly bacteria compete with the pathogen and take its food source
Anti-fungal, anti-parasitic, anti-bacterials help like Aloe Vera - it works against the pathogen (while you replenish good bacteria)
Anti-inflamatories help symptoms but never cure - pathogen is never touched.
Fecal transplants from healthy people help - they introduce friendly bacteria that combats the pathogen.
Stress makes it worse - in a stressed state the pathogen is more likely to thrive
Taking anti-biotics makes it worse - it kills friendly bacteria which cant keep the pathogen in check while the pathogen survives.

What can't be explained by the pathogen hypothesis? Which hypothesis is simpler?

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Waiting to see if I'm cured - no symptoms since probiotics started

Probiotics 16 strains (vsl#3 + ultimate multi probiotic) - 475 billion per day. Pre-biotics 1x a day. No sugar.
L-glutamine, elm powder, vit b & folic acid

just to clarify things a bit - I feel the immune system attacks our colons and causes the inflammation.....but....I dont think that the immune system does this for no apparent reason....something triggers it to do so.... maybe it is just a faulty immune system...but that seems to simple....i think there is more to it than that. so that is why i feel that the immune system is not what causes UC as the "root cause" - the events that occur before the inflammation - leading to it....this is the area that i feel has many different answers - bacteria (known or unknown), genes, antibiotic overuse, stress, enviornment, etc etc etc....obviously our immune system plays a huge part in it however and is directly linked.

i can see how hormones can be involved... i had a tumor on my pituitary gland that secreted massive levels of prolactin....reduced testosterone.... this is something that i had for years....probably before my UC.... removing it did not fix my UC however.

eva lou - i havent updated my signature in a while. i am not currently on pred. trust me i was not even a little happy about taking it...it was miserable and i grow increasingly upset having to take medicine that does nothing but mask my symptoms and cause other symptoms sometimes even worse than my UC.... i am not happy that there isnt a solution and i stick to my belief that until we find the cause, there will be no cure (other than surgery)....but again - if UC is more than just bowel inflammation - if it is something defective in our bodies, then removing the colon seems to be another way to rid ourselves of the symptoms caused by a defective body.

i tend to believe that if someday we could actually have a bowel transplant, people with UC will get inflammation in their new bowels....because the root cause of the disease does not lie in the colon itself.

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33 yr old male. UC for 14 years. 5mg pred (tapering off), 12 pills Asacol per day, Dicyclomine (for cramps), 0.5 - 1mg Atavan per day (anxiety) when needed, Fish oil pills, Culturelle probiotics. Recent Endonasal brain surgery to remove non-cancerous hormone producing tumor on pituitary gland (And I am still more afraid of my UC!!)  "I poop in the woods because I can"

Post Edited (mbx5) : 11/28/2008 3:51:02 PM (GMT-7)

Dr. A. V. Constantini, former head of the World Health Organization, has implicated fungus in "auto-immune" diseases. He believes the mycotoxins (fungal poisons) in the food chain, not food itself, are directly related to our diseases today, such as lupus, cancer, RA, etc. He also believes the concept of "auto-immune" diseases contains a serious flaw because no successful species can develop a system of defense which attacks itself. After reading of people with certain cancers, lupus, arthritis, psoriasis, UC, diabetes, etc. who, after following a strict lo-carb/ sugar-free, grain-free, dairy-free diet are getting well again, I'm thinking there must be something to it, for some people anyway. Of course, other environmental factors are to be considered.

Everything has to be triggered to the point of overreacting and sometimes it's difficult to turn off. The trigger would be subjective and in most cases untracable. The result is what most of us are treated for.

It's not the food....but there sure is a lot of crap that we don't know is in the food causing all sorts of stuff in our bodies. Viruses, bacteria, parasites..etc can all coexist in our bodies until the body decides to fight it.

Back to the transplant thing....As some of you know I and a few others have UC-related PSC. I might have PBC, either in conjunction with PSC or that alone..On is based on visual via an MRCP..the other is based on marker tests.

Regardless...those of us or any PSCer who has a liver transplant (fatal disease with NO cure), will ultimately end up with the disease in the new organ.
There would be no other explanation except for one's own body defense to not know when to shut itself off.



Natural selection takes a long while especially in humans. Consider how long it takes a person to change his or her pattern of thinking...not many will choose mates or not procreate based on what illness or diseases they may carry or be predisposed to. Genetic monitoring/testing could help...some disease paths could be changed, but I don't think there are any guarantees...stats or not. (this is a general statement because I believe stats are biased anyway).


quincy

---

*Heather* Status..Asacol 6 (3 twice daily); enemas every 4th night

~diagnosed January 1989 UC (proctosigmoiditis)

~Bentylol (dicyclomine) 20mg as needed

~vitamins/minerals/supplements 

~Probiotics....(Natural Factors Protec 2 or 3  +   1 or 2 Primadophilus Reuteri Pearls @ bedtime

~multi-digestive enzymes as needed

~Ranitidine,Pariet (reflux);  Effexor XR 75mg(depression);  Pulmicort/Airomir (asthma)

~URSO for PSC (or PBC) 500mg X 2 daily (LFTs back to NORMAL!!)

My doc's logic.. "TREAT (FROM)BOTH ENDS"  worth it !!!

 

Of course I made that decision....I'm saying not many people do that. I guess it's a form of natural selection, albeit conscious rather than instinctive.

Instinct regarding wild animals and natural selection....females make choices where there are many males, nature takes its course when animals aren't strong enough to survive. Therefore, the strongest survive....it's definitely not the norm in humans.

I'm not even going to get into humans and their selection regarding animal breeds, etc. They've basically screwed up the natural selection process based on what looks good, sacrificing strength, health and vitality in the process.

q

---

*Heather* Status..Asacol 6 (3 twice daily); enemas every 4th night

~diagnosed January 1989 UC (proctosigmoiditis)

~Bentylol (dicyclomine) 20mg as needed

~vitamins/minerals/supplements 

~Probiotics....(Natural Factors Protec 2 or 3  +   1 or 2 Primadophilus Reuteri Pearls @ bedtime

~multi-digestive enzymes as needed

~Ranitidine,Pariet (reflux);  Effexor XR 75mg(depression);  Pulmicort/Airomir (asthma)

~URSO for PSC (or PBC) 500mg X 2 daily (LFTs back to NORMAL!!)

My doc's logic.. "TREAT (FROM)BOTH ENDS"  worth it !!!

 

Researchers believe ulcerative colitis happens when the immune system overreacts in defending the body against a virus, bacteria, or dietary or environmental substance in the intestinal wall. It's still not clear what the exact trigger might be, but it's thought to vary from person to person.

Ulcerative colitis is an autoimmune disease that tends to occur in people with a family history of the condition. It is related to other autoimmune conditions, in which the immune system mistakenly attacks the body's own tissues instead of only fighting infections. Ulcerative colitis occurs most commonly in Caucasians, and particularly in people of Jewish heritage.

Certain environmental triggers can also lead to colitis. For example, people who live in cities are more at risk of developing the disease than those in rural areas.

If you choose not to believe the immune system is involved with IBD and other immune disorders that is your choice, as I've mentioned a few times, much still needs to be learned.

:)

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My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it! LOL :)

My GI explained to me that the classification of "autoimmune disease" is just a place where doctors put diseases that they have little understanding of.  It may turn out that the immune factor plays no role in UC, as well as with the other AI diseases.

Sue

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dx proctitis in 1987
dx UC in 1991, was stable until 1998

1998 started prednisone, asacol, pentasa, nortriptylene, ativan, 6MP, rowasa enemas and suppositories, hydrocortisone enemas, tried the SCD diet, being a vegetarian, omega 3s, flax, pranic healing, yoga, acupuncture, probiotics

2000 lost all my B-12 stores and became anemic

2001 opted for j-pouch surgery- now living life med-free

Eva Lou said...




And re. Doctor Constantini from WHO- while I can see that there may be something to his idea, why hasn't medical science embraced it? It seems like people throw out these theories postulated by one or two people- if there really is something to this idea, the fungus/pathogen/whatever theory, don't you think one would be able to find many, many, many studies to back it up? Not that I think the masses are always right, but one would think that if it's a truly viable theory, it would be more recognized & accepted.

Actually, medical science has embraced fungus as a plausible suspect. For instance, a few here..........:

1.Chronic sinusitis is now found to be caused by fungus (MAYO clinic)
2.alcohol ( a mycotoxin) is linked to increased risks of breast cancer
3.use of antibiotics is associated with increased risk of incident and fatal breast cancer
4.mycotoxins cause liver and esophageal cancer
5.cancer treatments actually enhance fungi
6.a 2008 study indicates Candida is a good candidate for infectious etiology of CD, which relates to impaired function in the defence against intracellular bacteria (they are finally starting to "get it")
7.a study in 2004 found a statistically significant association between Crohn's and prior antibiotic use
8.a 2001 study proposed that c. albicans is one of the triggers to both exacerbation and persistence of psoriasis,(and said an antifungal treatment should be considered)
9.1992 study concluded Crohn's activity index significantly greater when taking Baker's yeast than during yeast exclusion
10. a 2006 study concluded that significant fungal colonization may influence the activation of UC and antifungal treatment in patients with significant colonization cause clinical improvement in UC.

I think the bottom line is that science is only now starting to realize that fungus may be a serious player in our diseases, hence the lack of "multitudes" of studies thus far. Most doctors are uneducated in the study of mycology. Aren't probiotics just now starting to be the "buzz word" in GI problems and diseases? They improve symptoms because they are squeezing out the overgrown yeast that was allowed to proliferate in the elimination and absence of "good" bacteria, probably from taking antibiotics or birth control pills. It is a long time coming, but I believe much more research will be upcoming to implicate fungus in our diseases.

I just want someone to finally find out what is causing this, as well as other dreaded diseases.