vegatarian responce

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pant pooper
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 27
   Posted 1/4/2009 3:20 PM (GMT -6)   

So, what causes IBD? In a nutshell, stress on four fronts: 1. lifestyle stress, the foremost factor of which is dietary: eating foods incompatible with our biology, causing toxicity and indigestion; 2. mental/emotional stress (which includes the impact of incorrect, disempowering beliefs about health and disease); 3. societal stress (such as working too-long hours); and environmental stress (pollution). Genetics and germs do not cause IBD; rather, IBD is caused by lifestyle choices and lack of proper education about the factors in disease and health. In other words, we need to learn how to restore health by healthful living and eating. And we can!

For almost 200 years, Natural Hygiene teachers have taught that unhealthful habits (which include ingesting and injecting poisons into the body) cause illness, and that the body is a self-healing organism which expresses distressing symptoms when its vital domain is threatened. In cases of IBD, the biggest culprit is acid-forming diets, including indigestible, cooked, fatty foods—primarily animal meats, dairy products and fried oils. Cooked meat provides little if any usable protein or fiber and it putrefies in the gut. Meanwhile, cooked oils are carcinogenic, plain and simple. Both irritate and ravage the bowel, causing inflammation, diarrhea and other distressful symptoms. Irritants (toxic matter and gases) cause bowel inflammation when toxins have built up to a life-threatening level. The body does its best to expel the irritating substances, but in cases of IBD, it is overwhelmed by the magnitude of the task.


LondonRed
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 1198
   Posted 1/4/2009 3:23 PM (GMT -6)   
So become a Vegetarian and don't eat anything cooked with oil? ie live in a jungle?

Diagnosis Oct 07 and then Aug 08: Inditerminate Colitis currently under some. Current Medication: 500mg Asacol Suppositories, 800mg Asacol Tablets x 2 a day.


jblue65
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 381
   Posted 1/4/2009 3:45 PM (GMT -6)   
Stress does not cause IBD and frankly your ideas are a bit insulting to those of us who suffer daily. I am happy that you are able to get your IBD under control through whatever method.

Perhaps you are thinking about IBS, not IBD, which is exascerbated by stress. Not really sure what your agenda is but please try to be a bit more thoughtful about the way you are presenting your views. Many people on this forum have tried every type of diet, medication, exercise.... and have had no relief.

Again, does your "theory" explain CD also???
Jackie, 43

Pancolitis, DX October 06

Lexapro, colazal 3x3, Sythroid, Protonix, Flagyl

10 infusions of Remicade- doesn't work
Severely anemic-

back up to 30 mg of pred
Added 6MP- November 25th
 
Surgery almost certain


quincy
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 30995
   Posted 1/4/2009 3:46 PM (GMT -6)   
The OP probably doesn't even have UC and is here to spout all sorts dribble.

Maybe in 200 years, we will be sterile.

q
*Heather* Status..Asacol  (3 twice daily); flaring since Dec 22, tapered every 2nd nite (Jan 3)
~diagnosed January 1989 UC (proctosigmoiditis)
~Bentylol (dicyclomine) 20mg as needed
~vitamins/minerals/supplements 
~Probiotics....(Natural Factors Protec, Primadophilus Reuteri Pearls, Natural Factors Ultimate).... @ bedtime
~various digestive enzymes as needed
~Ranitidine (reflux);  Effexor XR 75mg(depression);  Pulmicort/Airomir (asthma)
~URSO for PSC (or PBC) 500mg X 2 daily (LFTs back to NORMAL!!)
My doc's logic.. "TREAT (FROM)BOTH ENDS"  worth it !!!
 


jblue65
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 381
   Posted 1/4/2009 3:49 PM (GMT -6)   
quincy-
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing :)))
Jackie, 43

Pancolitis, DX October 06

Lexapro, colazal 3x3, Sythroid, Protonix, Flagyl

10 infusions of Remicade- doesn't work
Severely anemic-

back up to 30 mg of pred
Added 6MP- November 25th
 
Surgery almost certain


Chester_Lampwick
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 53
   Posted 1/4/2009 4:19 PM (GMT -6)   
Three posts and I'm tired of this guy already. Really, what he says are just assertions. Point me to some specific studies that indicate any or all of these as valid. To me this sounds like some new age babble to sell some way out therapy.
Male, Age 36
UC since July 2006 - entire large intestine
_____________________________________________________________
Current Meds:
2x500mg Salofalk three times daily
 
 

 


quincy
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 30995
   Posted 1/4/2009 4:58 PM (GMT -6)   
And for the desperate, he just might. I would think that info is on the internet anyway if one digs deep enough.

q
*Heather* Status..Asacol  (3 twice daily); flaring since Dec 22, tapered every 2nd nite (Jan 3)
~diagnosed January 1989 UC (proctosigmoiditis)
~Bentylol (dicyclomine) 20mg as needed
~vitamins/minerals/supplements 
~Probiotics....(Natural Factors Protec, Primadophilus Reuteri Pearls, Natural Factors Ultimate).... @ bedtime
~various digestive enzymes as needed
~Ranitidine (reflux);  Effexor XR 75mg(depression);  Pulmicort/Airomir (asthma)
~URSO for PSC (or PBC) 500mg X 2 daily (LFTs back to NORMAL!!)
My doc's logic.. "TREAT (FROM)BOTH ENDS"  worth it !!!
 


pant pooper
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 27
   Posted 1/4/2009 6:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Ithought maybe there were some people here with open minds and are open to new ideas
 

Retired U.S. Marine
 
 
 
 
As a retired Marine, you must understand the concept of following group rules. In this case, disrespect and flaming are not tolerated on this forum, which is supposed to be to share information and support one another. Consider this your only warning about flaming. Thank you.
 
3. No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members.   Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun off, or insult another member or non-member.  Decisions about health and well-being are highly personal, individual choices.  "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat.
 

Post Edited By Moderator (Judilyn) : 1/4/2009 5:30:07 PM (GMT-7)


Chester_Lampwick
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 53
   Posted 1/4/2009 6:54 PM (GMT -6)   
I do have an open mind, but not so open my brains fall out. I do defer to those who have more formal training that I do, and can perform research that will find what works for UC sufferers as a whole rather than the anecdotal evidence of what worked for one individual. Call me crazy....


I will try to offer any advice I find helpful, I sympathize with all UC sufferers, but I won't proclaim I have the solution that fits all unless it's been validated by several clinical trials that have been properly scrutinized.

Post Edited By Moderator (Red_34) : 1/5/2009 6:21:13 AM (GMT-7)


kops2da
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 2865
   Posted 1/4/2009 6:56 PM (GMT -6)   
There really is no reason to even discuss this or answer this person.
WE KNOW that IBS and IBD are NOT the same.  I had IBS for like 30 years but not IBD.  You can certainly have one without the other.
I hope people will keep posting the medications they are taking, have tried, etc.  It is helping me to "cope".  I am 68 - only diagnosed a year ago - probably have eaten a TON or two or red meat, etc. 
The more reserach I do - credible websites, etc. - does not seem like WHAT we eat has much to do with causing UC.  Since I have IBS I have to be careful what I eat for my stomach not my colon.
Just had to get my very new two cents in!
I am happy for anyone who no longer has the UC or proctitis symptoms (or IBS for that matter) but we just have to watch out for those "quacky" ideas.  They are everywhere.
Thanks pant pooper for the "entertainment". By the way, I do believe we have all "cried".
ElaineNY
68 yr. old granny
New diagnosed with proctosigmoiditis - 6/2008
 Colonoscopy 10/28 showed only 2 cm. left to heal in rectum - going to try Proctofoam first.
Probiotic Align, Prilosec for GERD
Inderol for hypertension,Xanax,Lipitor, multivitamin, calcium w/D, Tylenol
Close to remission -spoke too soon!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


jblue65
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 381
   Posted 1/4/2009 7:11 PM (GMT -6)   
kops2da-
Thanks for responding to this person's remark about IBS/IBD- obviously doesn't know what he is taking about.

I certainly will not respond anymore to his obvious attempt to rile us up...
Jackie, 43

Pancolitis, DX October 06

Lexapro, colazal 3x3, Sythroid, Protonix, Flagyl

10 infusions of Remicade- doesn't work
Severely anemic-

back up to 30 mg of pred
Added 6MP- November 25th
 
Surgery almost certain


jujub
Elite Member


Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 10407
   Posted 1/4/2009 7:19 PM (GMT -6)   
So, pooper, do you have IBD, or are you building up to selling something or espousing a cause? If the latter, let me remind you of a couple of the forum rules before you get there.
 
4. No advertising or links to advertising or "Spam" is permited (including signatures).
Advertising or Spam is defined as posting a link for the purpose of selling, soliciting or promoting by someone that has ownership or other "vested interest" to the web site involved, including efforts to promote other online forums or web sites by web site owners. 
If you are a web site owner and have a link that fits into this category that you want to share, please submit it to our resource directory and we will review your submission. 
Posts and links about fundraising (including nonprofit fundraisers) are NOT permitted. 
Only links to personal home pages are allowed in signatures and member profiles. Links must be appropriate and abide by rules #1-4 or they will be removed. 
Links to helpful web sites (commercial or otherwise) are allowed when they are posted by someone without any "vested interest" AND whose purpose is NOT to solicit, advertise, promote, fundraise, etc.

6. No links to any web site or use of any username that fits into rules # 1-4 above.
 
10. No posts of an overtly political or religious nature OR posts promoting advocacy of particular personal, medical, legal, religious, political, or non-profit causes.  The forums are intended for offering mutual personal support.  Debating controversial subjects should be taken elsewhere.  Limited religious references are allowed (ie. "my prayers are with you" or a brief quote as part of a larger post), but the forums should not be used to convert others
 
You did agree to abide by the forum rules when you joined, so we're confident you will do so.
 
 
If you truly have IBD, you might consider using a more thoughtful tone. There are dozens of unproven theories about IBD and other autoimmune diseases; yours are only a few of them. Stating them as known fact is both misleading to new people and disrespectful toward those who have struggled with this condition for years or decades.
 
We value all of our members and I hope you will continue posting, but in a way that will allow you to gain maximum benefit from this forum.
Judy
 
Moderate to severe left-sided UC (21 cm) diagnosed 2001.
Avascular necrosis in both shoulders is my "forever" gift from Entocort.
Colazal,  Remicade, Nature's Way Primadophilus Reuteri. In remission since April, 2006.
"My life is an ongoing medical adventure"
 
Co-Moderator UC Forum
Please remember to consult your health care provider when making health-related decisions.


pant pooper
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 27
   Posted 1/4/2009 10:17 PM (GMT -6)   
O.K I see how this works it’s ok if someone says I can’t spell
 
How it works is that you aren't allowed to flame anyone on this site. The moderators don't make the rules, the administrator of the forum does. The moderators volunteer their time to try to keep the site as supportive and positive as the vast majority of the members want it to be. I'm sorry you feel picked on, if you have a complaint, you're more than welcome to address it to the forum administrator.

Post Edited By Moderator (Judilyn) : 1/5/2009 12:00:31 AM (GMT-7)


Peety
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 2855
   Posted 1/4/2009 10:37 PM (GMT -6)   
pp, you haven't said anything that rings true to me. Not much is plain and simple in gastrointestinal medical science.
What a burden it must be to have absolute beliefs so contrary.
49 year old female attorney, diagnosed UC/pancolitis 1985, no surgery but much suffering.
Asacol/5ASA 6x400 mg maintenance for 20+ years; use prednisone & Rowasa for flares. 
August 2008 sought care of naturopathic doctor. Food sensitivity test showed gluten, other intolerances; started diet without gluten, soy, dairy, tomato etc. Replete$$ probiotic powder at first, now Forte pills. Doing much better, but still having some bad days. 


Chester_Lampwick
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 53
   Posted 1/4/2009 10:49 PM (GMT -6)   
pant pooper said...
Why would you not post the part about Drs. Only work on symptoms and not cures?


Where would you get an idea like this? There are many types of doctors. Some work on treating patients with established protocols, sure. Some research oriented specialists work on both treatments and cures. Sure insulin isn't a cure for diabetes, doesn't mean they're not working on one. I'm pretty sure measles, mumps and rubella have been cured by having a simple vaccination during childhood. It seems you're the one with the closed mind. You may have already decided that the medical establishment is out to lunch.

Please, do a little more research. I suggest finding a "skeptic" podcast, like "The Skeptics Guide to the Universe". A great book about alternative medicines vs convention is "Trick or Treatment". It's pretty fair. In fact, one of the authors is a professor of complementary medicine. I think he wants to find out which alternative medicines are effective and which are outright fraud. Most alternative medicine practitioners are not willing to put their treatments under scientific scrutiny, and have lame excuses like we treat the patient as an individual, so effectiveness won't show up statistically.

I do believe you said remicade was working well for you, from another of your posts. Conventional medicine must be helping you somewhat. Please, lurk around these forums, share your experiences, ask tons of questions, try to find which treatments you'd like to try and discuss with your G.I. specialist. Empower yourself! Just don't be arrogant and think you have all the answers, the moment you join a message board.

Respectfully,
Roger
Male, Age 36
UC since July 2006 - entire large intestine
_____________________________________________________________
Current Meds:
2x500mg Salofalk three times daily
 
 

 


unclebubba
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 510
   Posted 1/4/2009 11:05 PM (GMT -6)   
now I'm not tryin to down anyone, specially not the one who posted this..... But COME ON.... we are carnivores... top of the food chain. If someone decides to go vegan,,,, thats fine. thats their choice. but for those of us that aren't... meat is a part of a properly balanced diet. Unless you are a vegan and take the other dietary precautions. But for most of the world meat is necessary. and tastes good. I for one, and its just my experience, Have UC, I keep a food diary, and meat doesn't affect my bowels. This is an individual disease and it may affect some. But not me. I guess its true... the old indian translation for vegan. "Vegan---- old indian word for BAD hunter." Sorry just tryin to lighten things up. We all have our opinions. And I'm sure you have all heard me state mine. But this one sounds BOGUS. Two posts have only talked about not eating meat. Is this PETA?
 
38 yr old male, NE Ohio
 
diagnosed in aug 2008
30 mg predisone, 9 balsalazide, rowesa enema, 2 gemfibrozil, 1 norvasc, 1 metoprotol, 1 allopurinol, 2 probiotic, 2 aloe vera
gluten intolerance... attempting to live no/low gluten
 
**********
update: down to 25 mg pred a day as of 12/25/08


stephaleph
New Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 1/4/2009 11:17 PM (GMT -6)   
UC is different from IBD. This is a UC message board. I'm a vegetarian with UC and I'm doing just fine, though, on another note.

glaciergrl
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 269
   Posted 1/4/2009 11:22 PM (GMT -6)   

To pp...

Many who suffer from ibd/ibs on a daily basis are very open minded, we have to be to new therapies and trials! I would think you are not being very open minded because you are ruling out germs and genetics. As far as not being educated, there are many educated individuals on this site all contributing to help each other. Educated people know and understand the body is a very complex thing and those who are ruling out genetics and "germs" are lacking and being close minded. Also, just an FYI UC have been linked to a genetic mutation.

Holly


24yrs old/ college student/ Wisconsin

Diagnosed UC Pancolitis in Nov 2004
Diagnosed PSC in Oct 2006


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20577
   Posted 1/4/2009 11:28 PM (GMT -6)   
pant pooper said...

So, what causes IBD? In a nutshell, stress on four fronts: 1. lifestyle stress, the foremost factor of which is dietary: eating foods incompatible with our biology, causing toxicity and indigestion; 2. mental/emotional stress (which includes the impact of incorrect, disempowering beliefs about health and disease); 3. societal stress (such as working too-long hours); and environmental stress (pollution). Genetics and germs do not cause IBD; rather, IBD is caused by lifestyle choices and lack of proper education about the factors in disease and health. In other words, we need to learn how to restore health by healthful living and eating. And we can!

For almost 200 years, Natural Hygiene teachers have taught that unhealthful habits (which include ingesting and injecting poisons into the body) cause illness, and that the body is a self-healing organism which expresses distressing symptoms when its vital domain is threatened. In cases of IBD, the biggest culprit is acid-forming diets, including indigestible, cooked, fatty foods—primarily animal meats, dairy products and fried oils. Cooked meat provides little if any usable protein or fiber and it putrefies in the gut. Meanwhile, cooked oils are carcinogenic, plain and simple. Both irritate and ravage the bowel, causing inflammation, diarrhea and other distressful symptoms. Irritants (toxic matter and gases) cause bowel inflammation when toxins have built up to a life-threatening level. The body does its best to expel the irritating substances, but in cases of IBD, it is overwhelmed by the magnitude of the task.

Sorry, but your information is incorrect, genes are linked to IBD (just read the post by Reef with the article about another new gene linked specifically to UC)...lifestyle does NOT cause UC, that's the worst mis-information I've ever heard...IBD has been around longer than you realise obviously and although stress and poor diet may be exacerbators of IBD it is not the single cause of it (as those would be the triggers involved with getting IBD but in order for that to happen one must FIRST be predisposed to getting it as in genetics)...you need to do more research on your part.
 
:)
My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it! LOL :)


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20577
   Posted 1/4/2009 11:31 PM (GMT -6)   
pant pooper said...
Ithought maybe there were some people here with open minds and are open to new ideas
 

Retired U.S. Marine
 
 
 
 
As a retired Marine, you must understand the concept of following group rules. In this case, disrespect and flaming are not tolerated on this forum, which is supposed to be to share information and support one another. Consider this your only warning about flaming. Thank you.
 
3. No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members.   Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun off, or insult another member or non-member.  Decisions about health and well-being are highly personal, individual choices.  "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat.
 
Actually this statement of yours is funny because for someone to say that IBD is not caused by genetics when it's been proven that it is would make you the close-minded one....personally I do not see any "new ideas" from your post, just bad info against what science has already proven to be true.
 
:)
My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it! LOL :)


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20577
   Posted 1/4/2009 11:33 PM (GMT -6)   
stephaleph said...
UC is different from IBD. This is a UC message board. I'm a vegetarian with UC and I'm doing just fine, though, on another note.
I think you meant UC is different from IBS (irritable bowel syndrome)?
 
:)
My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it! LOL :)


unclebubba
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 510
   Posted 1/4/2009 11:38 PM (GMT -6)   
just to clarify my post... What works for some wont necessarily work for all. AM not downing vegans> if that helps your UC, then more power to you. And good luck with it. It doesn't work for me though. We all find what works us and share it here. Thats the good experience I have of this board. But closed mindedness doesn really fit here. Least thats my take on this site.
 
38 yr old male, NE Ohio
 
diagnosed in aug 2008
30 mg predisone, 9 balsalazide, rowesa enema, 2 gemfibrozil, 1 norvasc, 1 metoprotol, 1 allopurinol, 2 probiotic, 2 aloe vera
gluten intolerance... attempting to live no/low gluten
 
**********
update: down to 25 mg pred a day as of 12/25/08


quincy
Elite Member


Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 30995
   Posted 1/5/2009 1:44 AM (GMT -6)   
we may disagree and even ruffle feathers or opinions, But, those who come here, to preach the all-knowing to we who are perceived not, won't get much respect. This thread has proven that.

As a marine, you should understand defensive.....and you don't even seem to know your own disease...uh, red flag? Certainly not a white one.

quincy
*Heather* Status..Asacol  (3 twice daily); flaring since Dec 22, tapered every 2nd nite (Jan 3)
~diagnosed January 1989 UC (proctosigmoiditis)
~Bentylol (dicyclomine) 20mg as needed
~vitamins/minerals/supplements 
~Probiotics....(Natural Factors Protec, Primadophilus Reuteri Pearls, Natural Factors Ultimate).... @ bedtime
~various digestive enzymes as needed
~Ranitidine (reflux);  Effexor XR 75mg(depression);  Pulmicort/Airomir (asthma)
~URSO for PSC (or PBC) 500mg X 2 daily (LFTs back to NORMAL!!)
My doc's logic.. "TREAT (FROM)BOTH ENDS"  worth it !!!
 


jujub
Elite Member


Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 10407
   Posted 1/5/2009 2:03 AM (GMT -6)   
Okay, I think we've all had our say now. I'm going to request that this thread end here. Arguing and sniping only raise the stress level and most of us agree that isn't good for our UC or our moods. Let's move on to other topics and civil discussions before we end up with this thread locked.

Thanks!
Judy
 
Moderate to severe left-sided UC (21 cm) diagnosed 2001.
Avascular necrosis in both shoulders is my "forever" gift from Entocort.
Colazal,  Remicade, Nature's Way Primadophilus Reuteri. In remission since April, 2006.
"My life is an ongoing medical adventure"
 
Co-Moderator UC Forum
Please remember to consult your health care provider when making health-related decisions.


kops2da
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 2865
   Posted 1/5/2009 10:38 AM (GMT -6)   

Thanks Judy!  Even though I found this thread quite "entertaining" in some ways I agree we move on. 

I sure wish some great scientist would come up with ONE or even two treatments to CURE IBD - all of them.  My son is a research scientist and I ask him when he was in college to invent a chocolate cake without calories - he is 45 and hasn't done it yet!  LOL  He does research on small rodents - he is the MRI specialist who tests the rodents for tumors and cures for diabetes, cancer, etc.  It takes many years to find what works but it is being researched and studied. Most case is lack of funds slowly things down.

ElaineNY


68 yr. old granny
New diagnosed with proctosigmoiditis - 6/2008
 Colonoscopy 10/28 showed only 2 cm. left to heal in rectum - going to try Proctofoam first.
Probiotic Align, Prilosec for GERD
Inderol for hypertension,Xanax,Lipitor, multivitamin, calcium w/D, Tylenol
Close to remission -spoke too soon!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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