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GI doesn't believe me?

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GI doesn't believe me?  
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badlands
New Member
Joined : Dec 2009
Posts : 4
Posted 12/20/2009 12:15 AM (GMT -7)
Hello Everyone,

I have been following this forum since I was diagnosed with pan-ulcerative colitis in Dec '08. I haven't joined until now, but it feels like the right time. Here's a little history. I was hospitalized for 2 weeks in Jan '09 with severe pancolitis and didn't even respond to 100mg of IV steroids. They started me on Remicade and it was my savior for about 2 months. I experienced a pretty bad 2nd flare in April '09 and once again, Remicade saved the day. Since then I was in remission and despite the side effects of all the medications (fatigue, grogginess, mood changes, did i mention fatigue), it was good times. However, I am currently experiencing my 3rd flare of the year (frustrating!). I recently had an appointment with my GI and he asked me to descrbe the symptoms. I told him that although this flare seems much less severe, I was still having a (non)healthy dose of discomfort and urgency. I asked him for a refill on my hydrocodone prescription because that seemed to be the only thing which calmed my insides almost immediately. It was difficult to function during a flare (in fact it was impossible) without hydrocodone because I was afraid to be away from the bathroom. I can't take off another month from work, and I felt like I could make it to my next Remicade appointment if I had something to help me on a daily basis until then. After telling my GI all of this, he said I didn't need the hydrocodone. He glanced at me as though he was hoping to catch me in a lie. Why would I lie about a flare?!?! I was happily in remission. I have no desire to become a drug addict (too late?). I receive Remicade every 4 weeks because of the severity of my disease, and I just recently had an infusion on 12/14/09. I think it eased the severity of the flare, which is why I consider it minor, but I will need the next one to really kick it in the butt. However, I have to wait another 3 weeks. Is it me or is my GI being unreaasonable? If he's right, then what else can I do to calm the intestinal ache and urgency? When I told him that it feels like a deep deep ache in my lower back that throbs after a BM, he said "huh?". I just want to go the movies or the office without fearing an accident. Thoughts? I appreciate it!

Current Medications:
Remicade every 4 weeks
Asacol (6 per day) - reduced from 12
6MP (25mg) - reduced from 50mg when my hair started falling out. Gah!
Ambien - ZZzzz...

Previous Medications:
Prednisone (never again!)
Bentyl (4 per day)
Flagyl (never EVER again - worst pain ever) confused
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mumbles
Regular Member
Joined : Dec 2008
Posts : 199
Posted 12/20/2009 12:48 AM (GMT -7)
I understand why your doctor isn't just passing out hydrocodone prescriptions. He can't just give out a drug like that unless you actually need it. That is just part of him being a doctor, that is how they have to function. Not saying it's necessarily bad, just that it is how the health system works. If you don't think your doctor understands you or you aren't getting answers, remember that you can always get a second or even third opinion. He should have had a better answer than "huh?" for you lower back pains, as that could be 6MP side effect, but I'm no doctor. :P
Asacol-12 a day
1 Culturelle
1 Canasa
5g Fish oil supplements
1 Vitamin
50 mg 6MP

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Red_34
Forum Moderator
Joined : Apr 2004
Posts : 23578
Posted 12/20/2009 6:20 AM (GMT -7)
Mumbles is right. GI's have to be conservative about prescription pain killers for a variety of reasons (addiction issues, risks of constipation and/or toxic megacolon etc). When I was in a severe flare, I had to literally beg my GI for a prescription pain killer and he ended up giving me Darvocet. What MG's of Bentyl are you taking? If the Bentyl is not working you might want to see if the doc can find another anti-spasmodic for you because it sounds like what you are experiencing are intestinal spasms. Also, even though your have Pan you can still benefit from an enema. It might help with some of the urgency and/or pain you are experiencing. Asacol can only reach so far down into the intestine and an enema can reach the lowest portion of the colon. A two pronged approached.

 @--->--SHERRY--<---@

Moderator for Allergies/Asthma and Co-moderator for UC

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sore_guts
Regular Member
Joined : Jun 2007
Posts : 186
Posted 12/20/2009 7:18 AM (GMT -7)
sounds like the Dr is a jerk and if it were me I would start looking for another one right away.  If the Dr has ligitimate reasons for not prescribing something he sould explain to you why - not just dismiss you.  Did he offer any other alternative treatments?  Or any other ideas to help get you thru until the next remicade treatment?  If not then sounds like he is out of ideas and its time to move on to another Dr.  Have you tried any rectal meds?  Not much fun, but they can help because they get right to the problem area - much closer than oral meds do.
 sore_guts

Currently in Remission since June 2008!! Backed off to far from spinach/seed diet and started flaring again :(  Back to remission again

High magnesium/ beta carotene diet

37 year old female with left-sided UC

lialda 1 pill  3 2 times/day

Digestive Advantage Colitis formula 1/day

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Burli
Veteran Member
Joined : May 2003
Posts : 1251
Posted 12/20/2009 9:58 AM (GMT -7)
If you want it temporarily until you get over a bad flare I would agree with you. If you intend to rely on it continually for your UC I favor your GI.
One GI would never prescribe me addictive pain killers or anti-anxiety meds. His answer was always, "we don't like to use those because they are too addictive." He's right, the more you take the more you need to get the same effect. I've tried anti-spasmodics and find they actually either make no difference for me or make me have more urgency. This current flare was the first time I ever tried narcotics. I'm not sure I would use them at work though. They do kill the urgency and pain but they slow your thought process greatly. I would be a zombie at work using these.
My current doctor has no problem trusting me with narcotics at this time but knows I don't enjoy being on them unless absolutely necessary. I currently use oxycodone and xanax for pain and anxiety but try to push not using them as long as I can so my body doesn't build up a tolerance to them.
When I got out of the hospital last Tuesday I was requiring one IV injection of Delaudid every 3 hours. After being discharged that day I got a prescription for oxycodone to take every 4-6 hours. My first dose lasted about 3 1/2 hours so I took the second dose before it was due. If I kept doing that I would eventually require higher strength medicine to get the same effect so, with my wife's help, I forced myself to hold out longer and longer. As I'm writing this I'm actually distracting myself from the current urgency and throbbing pain you describe (in my rectum, pain in lower back, left sided spasm pain) so I can hold out longer from taking my next dose of pain medicine. In doing this I have the reward that it's effect will be even more dramatic the longer I hold out...I'm going for 7 hours and am at 5 1/2 now.
A doctor told me that narcotic pain relievers lose their effectiveness over time because your body will tolerate the same amount of pain to a lesser degree knowing that you have that pain medicine coming that's going to make it go away. So the same pain will actually feel more intense to you than it would to someone else who just uses a heating pad for relief. That’s why so many celebrities get addicted to pain killers. They’re not in any more pain than the rest of us it’s just they’ve found doctor’s that will give them as much as they want.

So what kind of doctor do you want? I’m sure you can shop around for one that will give you the medicine you want but be careful.

43, male, UC diagnosed in 1985

March 2009 colonoscopy showed no signs of UC; azathioprine reduce from 100mg to 50mg

Started current flare August 2009, bleeding by October 2009, hospital 12/9-12/15

Current Meds: 150 mg azathioprine, 60 mg prednisone, 750 mg Colazal 6/day, 400 mg Asacol 6/day, Rowasa enema nightly, VSL#3 DS,  Lialda, started Remicade on 12/17/09

80 mg solumedrol; demoral, Dilaudid, oxycodone for pain, Zolfran for nausea

Xanax anxiety

Tegretol XR and valium for epilespy

Post Edited (Burli) : 12/20/2009 10:04:11 AM (GMT-7)

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jujub
Elite Member
Joined : Mar 2003
Posts : 10416
Posted 12/20/2009 10:40 AM (GMT -7)
The general rule of thumb is that prescribing narcotics to treat something that can be cured by another treatment is not advisable. The problem is that your body adjusts to the medication, and you will require gradually increasing amounts over time, until you reach the maximum dose that can be taken without the risk of death. Then when your body adjusts to that, there's nowhere to go with pain relief.

Also, narcotics are constipating and can increase the chance of colon perforation.

Consider trying rectal meds to help with the urgency. If those don't help, it looks as if you may have achieved the maximum benefit you're going to get from drugs and it may be time to at least consider surgery.
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Burli
Veteran Member
Joined : May 2003
Posts : 1251
Posted 12/20/2009 10:42 AM (GMT -7)
I was also just reminded by my wife that the doctor did also say (as I'm moaning a little here) that your body has a more difficult time healing itself if it has to "fight" the pain so I really shouldn't hold out longer on these pain medicines than I have to. I should take what I need and your doctor should prescribe you what you need.

43, male, UC diagnosed in 1985

March 2009 colonoscopy showed no signs of UC; azathioprine reduce from 100mg to 50mg

Started current flare August 2009, bleeding by October 2009, hospital 12/9-12/15

Current Meds: 150 mg azathioprine, 60 mg prednisone, 750 mg Colazal 6/day, 400 mg Asacol 6/day, Rowasa enema nightly, VSL#3 DS,  Lialda, started Remicade on 12/17/09

80 mg solumedrol; demoral, Dilaudid, oxycodone for pain, Zolfran for nausea

Xanax anxiety

Tegretol XR and valium for epilespy

profile picture
Burli
Veteran Member
Joined : May 2003
Posts : 1251
Posted 12/20/2009 11:11 AM (GMT -7)
I feel much better. Before the pain meds (before I entered the hospital), I was in so much pain that it stressed my body to the point I could not get well with my flare. I entered the hospital, went on pain medicine and steroids and was thus able to relax, eat, have bm's without stressing over them, rest and heal. The pain meds at home have allowed me to do much of the same plus I use them before the mesalamine enema at night. I use them to be able to ho it in much longer and I have a relaxed night instead of a night walking around the house clinching my gut. I believe I am finally starting to heal with the help of these narcotics and my doctor agrees.
Assuming I get over this flare I would much rather suggest someone use pain meds like I did as opposed to having surgery. You just have to be careful once the stressful pain is gone that you're not abusing them.

43, male, UC diagnosed in 1985

March 2009 colonoscopy showed no signs of UC; azathioprine reduce from 100mg to 50mg

Started current flare August 2009, bleeding by October 2009, hospital 12/9-12/15

Current Meds: 150 mg azathioprine, 60 mg prednisone, 750 mg Colazal 6/day, 400 mg Asacol 6/day, Rowasa enema nightly, VSL#3 DS,  Lialda, started Remicade on 12/17/09

80 mg solumedrol; demoral, Dilaudid, oxycodone for pain, Zolfran for nausea

Xanax anxiety

Tegretol XR and valium for epilespy

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pb4
Elite Member
Joined : Feb 2004
Posts : 20577
Posted 12/20/2009 12:11 PM (GMT -7)
I don't know why he seemed so surprised when you complained of horrid lower back pain after BM's, during severe flares my lower back pain during BM's put me into tears.

Maybe find another doc that will be compassionate about the pain you're in?

:)
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seconder
Veteran Member
Joined : Jun 2008
Posts : 610
Posted 12/20/2009 4:36 PM (GMT -7)
Ideas about opioids are changing, albeit slowly, albeit mostly for chronic pain, but if your doctor is still in the "Just-Say-No" era, might be time to find another one.

There are more recent articles than this, but info on reasonable use of opioids is out there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/22/health/personal-health-misunderstood-opioids-and-needless-pain.html?pagewanted=1

 

NYTimes said...

As Dr. Henry McQuay, a pain specialist at the University of Oxford in England, put it: ''Opioids are our most powerful analgesics, but politics, prejudice and our continuing ignorance still impede optimum prescribing. What happens when opioids are given to someone in pain is different from what happens when they are given to someone not in pain. The medical use of opioids does not create drug addicts, and restrictions on this medical use hurt patients.''

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badlands
New Member
Joined : Dec 2009
Posts : 4
Posted 12/20/2009 4:53 PM (GMT -7)
Thank you everyone for your replies!! You have no idea how much I appreciate hearing thoughts from people who know what I'm going through. I certainly don't want to become a drug addict, but, to some capacity I feel like many of us already are. I do understand that drugs like hydrocodone don't work as effectively at the same dose if taken for a while. I don't want to get into a dangerous situation with those. I just want something to ease the ache and discomfort during flares. I understand that diet and exercise play a major role, and I am trying to learn more about that. But for those moments when you just want some internal peace and the bathroom has become your anchor, it would be nice to know I have something handy to ease it all (especially on a plane!!). I am also thrilled (funny to say it that way) that other people understand what I mean by that deep internal lower back ache before and during and after a BM. It's a relief to know I'm not alone. Heating pads do absolutely nothing for those kind of aches.

Red_34 - i am no longer taking Bentyl because I felt like it was making the urgency worse, not better

sore_guts - his dismissal is why I feel like he might not believe that I am in a flare. I'm not a fan of going through a colonoscopy just to prove it. I believe he is afraid I just want the pain meds. I do want them, but I wish he gave me more credit

Burli - You are me and I am you! Oh goodness I feel your pain and I too have been in the position where waiting just an extra 2 hours to take the meds was important. Thank you for the support! I am glad you are feeling better. Hopefully within the next few days I will too.

pb4 - yes the "huh" response was pretty disheartening. I am going home to nyc for the holidays and have a GI there as well. I am planning to make an appointment if possible.

Judy2 - I have tried Rowasa enemas and have found them pretty ineffective. At one point I was taking the Rowasa with a pain med, ambien, and IV steroids...and I would still wake up less than 2 hours later to have a BM. My body is not cooperating

seconder - thanks for the article!

mumbles - I do agree with you about the GI sensitivity to prescribing meds. I do plan to get a 2nd opinion in nyc. It was just that his "huh" response made me feel like it was less of hi trying to steer me clear of the pain meds, and more of him not believing I was in discomfort. Nobody wants to be accused of crying wolf. I do not believe that people who know what UC is like would cry wolf.

Will keep you all posted, thanks!
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Burli
Veteran Member
Joined : May 2003
Posts : 1251
Posted 12/20/2009 6:13 PM (GMT -7)
I also remember a young doctor in the hospital telling me not to let myself be in a lot of pain as it made the healing take longer.

My mother was told the same thing by her doctor because she is the type of person to not take a pain medicine and instead 'tough it out'. She was lectured not to do that and today reminded me to take my pain medicine. I'm glad you brought this up because I was trying to resist taking them. Thanks.

43, male, UC diagnosed in 1985

March 2009 colonoscopy showed no signs of UC; azathioprine reduce from 100mg to 50mg

Started current flare August 2009, bleeding by October 2009, hospital 12/9-12/15

Current Meds: 150 mg azathioprine, 60 mg prednisone, 750 mg Colazal 6/day, 400 mg Asacol 6/day, Rowasa enema nightly, VSL#3 DS,  Lialda, started Remicade on 12/17/09

80 mg solumedrol; demoral, Dilaudid, oxycodone for pain, Zolfran for nausea

Xanax anxiety

Tegretol XR and valium for epilespy

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