Fecal Transplant and Diet (SCD currently)

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Briggs
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Date Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts : 66
   Posted 11/7/2012 10:31 AM (GMT -7)   
Serenity Now said...
Dr Briggs, you can still have your stir fries - at least the ones you make at home. Just don't put them over rice. Same with "pasta" dishes. I rarely ever eat pasta or rice anymore, I put sauce/stir fries/whatever over spaghetti squash. I figured out it's not the pasta or rice I enjoy, it's the stuff that I put on top of it.


They're much more satisfying with rice though. :D

I've done spaghetti squash a few times. It's not bad, I'd just prefer to be able to eat rice. The biggest thing that's hard to replicate or replace IMO though is pizza.

upanashad
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Date Joined Jun 2012
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 11/7/2012 4:20 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks for the encouragement, Dr Briggs. Too bad your wife just stopped nursing! I totally want to try a little bit of human milk after a transplant just to see if it helps. I also think it could be helpful to use it to heal from chronic disease in general as I know it's being used for cancer patients now with some good results.

I'm doing my second transplant today. Everything is set up in the fridge just waiting for my friend to come over and help me. I tried to do it myself but started to panic when I inserted the tube (the worst part for me). I couldn't tell how far I had it in and then I pulled it out and realized it was in further than I thought and I could have gone ahead. :( I find all this really stressful - I'm super afraid I'm going to tear my colon or something.

Briggs
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts : 66
   Posted 11/9/2012 7:50 AM (GMT -7)   
I had never done an enema before doing this, so I was a little apprehensive. I didn't cut the tubes - I wanted to make sure the end was the way it was intended (cutting it could produce sharp edges, potentially). I prevented clogging by filtering with a metal kitchen strainer. That was the messiest part of the entire process. The actual transplants have been going pretty smoothly though.

I usually get around 2-2.5 cups in. I generally have to stop partway through and do somewhat of a headstand to get it to work its way up into my colon to make room for more.

Are you mixing with saline? I made my own, adding salt to distilled water.

kookoo
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Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 12
   Posted 11/12/2012 5:47 AM (GMT -7)   
 I have performed a couple of faecal transplants in desperation due to chronic digestive issues. I used my 16 year old daughters stool. Wearing gloves I mashed it with a plastic spoon and saline in a throw away container and used a cheap sieve to strain it. I used a large syringe (cost about $2 from the chemist) to perform the procedure (you can add in extra bit on the end from a baby syringe which is more comfortable) and tried to keep it in as long as possible. I discarded the sieve and syringe etc. afterwards. This second time I tried to clean my colon first with an enema and also some saline and warm water in the syringe. When I tried it about a week ago I also put some into enteric capsules and took them. I'm not sure if it has helped me but I have been having a lot of gas which smelt unpleasant . I am hoping that this is a sign that the bad bacteria is dying. I also had a few nightmares. My diet is very good and I take enzymes and serrapeptase to hopefully break up biofilm. I am still getting alot of bloating and stomach discomfort. I have started taking yacon syrup which is supposed to be a prebiotic and I am hoping this will encourage the good bacteria to proliferate. Only one friend knows I am doing this as she has a veterinary background and was the one that mentioned it to me. At first I was horrified but when you live with these issues for so long you are willing to try anything. I have spent thousands and probiotics dont work. I have also tried endless kefir etc.etc. I have killed alot of the bad bacteria by using blackseed oil, mastic gum and coconut oil but you have to replace it with the good or you wont ever get better.
I just wanted to share my experience on here as it was good to read about other people performing this procedure at home and it is interesting to hear about the outcomes.

upanashad
New Member


Date Joined Jun 2012
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 11/13/2012 2:05 PM (GMT -7)   
Dr Briggs, I did use saline that I bought in little jars. My doctor told me I could totally mix my own if I wanted to but I worry so I bought the sterile stuff that was already mixed.

I usually get around 2-2.5 cups in. Dr Briggs said...

I am amazed how much you get in! I get about 1/2 a cup I would say, and then I just get this feeling like if I put anymore in its all going to explode out, so I stop. But it seems to be working, my second transplant went well. I had three good bowel days in a row which hasn't happened in months. Planning on doing some more transplants this week. I still have to be extremely careful about what I eat, though.

One thing I learned last time was not to put the solution in straight from the fridge. I got so cold from it I was shaking, and I realized putting a substance that is 40-some degrees into the core of my body probably isn't a good idea.

Kookoo, thanks for sharing your experience with FT. I really like reading about how it is going for others as well.

kookoo
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 12
   Posted 11/13/2012 10:25 PM (GMT -7)   
I have used the saline for my neti pot which comes in little sachets. I think my stool formation has improved but I am still feeling very lethargic. I guess it takes time for your body to heal when one has been ill for a long time. I am wondering of anyone has fully regained their vitality from doing the transplants? I take enough superfoods to sink a ship and eat lean protein, salads and veges..no gluten, dairy or sugar ever!
I think I will try to do another one this weekend if poo-sible (haha). Just wondering how many it takes or does it just take time to allow the good bacteria to colonise? I think it definitely helped to do the enema first ..I was having headaches at night after the transplants which seems to be improving anyway. I would love to here from anyone who has seen a good improvement to build up moral for the next one lol

curl3d
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2012
Total Posts : 382
   Posted 11/13/2012 10:31 PM (GMT -7)   
I have no idea whether my transplants helped. I think they did though and I'm still in remission 8 or so months later
Status: In remission since beginning of April 2012
Diet: No gluten, no starches and avoiding eating much sugar.
Medicine: Asacol 4x100 daily
FT: Performed Fecal Bacteriotherapy at home using my wife as donor starting the 29th of February for 27 days. Please see tinyurl.com/bw5fn8g for the procedure I used

kookoo
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 12
   Posted 11/14/2012 2:40 AM (GMT -7)   
Poo-ga hey great work! lol

Briggs
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts : 66
   Posted 11/14/2012 9:00 AM (GMT -7)   
kookoo said...
I have used the saline for my neti pot which comes in little sachets. I think my stool formation has improved but I am still feeling very lethargic. I guess it takes time for your body to heal when one has been ill for a long time. I am wondering of anyone has fully regained their vitality from doing the transplants? I take enough superfoods to sink a ship and eat lean protein, salads and veges..no gluten, dairy or sugar ever!
I think I will try to do another one this weekend if poo-sible (haha). Just wondering how many it takes or does it just take time to allow the good bacteria to colonise? I think it definitely helped to do the enema first ..I was having headaches at night after the transplants which seems to be improving anyway. I would love to here from anyone who has seen a good improvement to build up moral for the next one lol


The studies that have focused on people with UC/CD have found that in general it takes more transplants, and more time, for a profound improvement compaired to people with a C-diff infection. Borody speculates that this may be because other bacteria that can be causing UC/CD implant spores in our intestinal walls, allowing them to keep coming back - so repeated transplants are necessary to fully eradicate them.

I think that the fact that some bacteria are able to build strong biofilms to protect themselves, and keep other bacteria from displacing them, can be a factor - which is why I've been using the enzymes to break down the biofilm.

Also, for those of us who have had UC/CD for years, there is probably a fair amount of damage that needs to heal, to the intestinal walls and villi - and all of that takes time.

This weekend was my third weekend of transplants, and I am expecting to keep doing them for probably at least 3-4 more weeks, maybe twice that. I think this approach of doing it on weekends seems to be working pretty well. That is the approach Borody is now using for UC, finding it more effective than a sequence of 5 transplants 5 days in a row.

In my case, the combination of the SCD and transplants seems to be working great. I am officially off Remicade - in the past, I have never gone this long between infusions, since I would start developing mucus, diarrhea, blood, etc.. So far, everything is fine. Nice, well-formed stools, generally around 2 a day.

THis weekend I got perhaps a little too adventurous. Since the rice I had last weekend didn't give me any problems, I decided to give some fried rice from a thai restaurant a try. I'm not sure if it caused any problems or not. I did my transplant Saturday morning, then had fried rice for an early dinner, and held the transplant until Sunday morning. THen I had a nice big, well formed poop (much of it the donor poo). But then within about 45 minutes I had two more pretty urgent poops. They weren't diarrhea, just more urgency than I have had lately, and I was surprised to have three close together. I was fine after that though.

Not quite sure what to make of that.

Also, my transplant on Saturday was more time consuming than normal because I got lazy about filtering, and the result was that the end of the tube clogged a few times. That was a pain to deal with. The moral - make sure you filter nicely.

Briggs
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts : 66
   Posted 11/14/2012 10:33 AM (GMT -7)   
upanashad said...

I am amazed how much you get in! I get about 1/2 a cup I would say, and then I just get this feeling like if I put anymore in its all going to explode out, so I stop.


When I get to that feeling, I stop, and do a headstand (the type where you use a wall to hold your torso vertical). I twist my body around some so initially the "stuff" can work its way up the left side of my body (the way the colon goes), and then twist over so it can work up my right side some.

Then I squirt some more up there. I generally have to stop twice to do that during the entire process. Having it more liquidy seems to help with getting it to work its way further up my colon to make room for more.

upanashad said...
But it seems to be working, my second transplant went well. I had three good bowel days in a row which hasn't happened in months. Planning on doing some more transplants this week. I still have to be extremely careful about what I eat, though.

One thing I learned last time was not to put the solution in straight from the fridge. I got so cold from it I was shaking, and I realized putting a substance that is 40-some degrees into the core of my body probably isn't a good idea.

I try to do mine right after mixing it up. My wife poops, I put it in the blender right away, pour saline on top, and carefully mix it up with the blender (just briefly tapping the pulse button repeatedly, since you don't want to whip it around for a long time and get air in there). Then I filter it into the bag, and do the transplant right away.

For some reason I've been fairly gassy the last couple days - especially more belching than normal. Not sure what that's all about. It could be related to my old hiatal hernia, which I may have re-aggrevated.

garylouisville
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts : 9088
   Posted 11/14/2012 11:41 AM (GMT -7)   
Dr. Briggs, I was curious if you had any thoughts on the following article:

http://news.yahoo.com/chimp-human-gut-bacteria-nearly-identical-172628782.html
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kookoo
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 12
   Posted 11/15/2012 2:08 AM (GMT -7)   
Just wondering which enzymes you are using for the biofilm Dr Briggs? I cant get a hold of the Clairelabs interfase here (not for lack of trying) so am taking serrapeptase not sure how effective it is for this though?

Briggs
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts : 66
   Posted 11/15/2012 8:39 AM (GMT -7)   
kookoo said...
Just wondering which enzymes you are using for the biofilm Dr Briggs? I cant get a hold of the Clairelabs interfase here (not for lack of trying) so am taking serrapeptase not sure how effective it is for this though?


I'm using the Claire Labs Interfase enzyme. For some reason they give me some major gas. I'm only taking them in the middle of the night, since you're supposed to take them well away from meals, since otherwise they will just be used for digesting food. I eat about 5-6 meals a day, so there aren't really any times during the day when I can take them far apart from meals (preferably at least 3 hours apart from a meal).

Taking just one of them gives me moderate gas. Taking two pills during the night gives me major gas (painful), and sometimes some foamy diarrhea. At this point I'm only taking the pills on Thursday and Friday nights, prepping for the transplants. When I take two of them, the resulting diarrhea cleans me out pretty good.

I'm not entirely sure why I get such severe gas and diarrhea from them. I talked with someone from Claire Labs, and my impression is that it could be a result of the biofilm being broken down.

Briggs
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts : 66
   Posted 11/15/2012 8:41 AM (GMT -7)   
garylouisville said...
Dr. Briggs, I was curious if you had any thoughts on the following article:

http://news.yahoo.com/chimp-human-gut-bacteria-nearly-identical-172628782.html


Gary, this is very interesting. I want to read through the actual studies and some of the studies they reference before responding in full. I hadn't seen this study before that found that there are three different "enterotypes", three different bactieral make-ups that humans can have. This could be a very interesting issue when it comes to fecal transplants, and could play a role in the effectiveness of the procedure.

Briggs
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts : 66
   Posted 11/21/2012 10:13 AM (GMT -7)   
Update: things are going very well. I did one transplant last weekend. I'm planning on just doing one a week for the next few weeks.

I've been doing a little playing with eating non-SCD compliant foods. I had fried rice again on Saturday and Monday, with no problems. Plus a little bit of veggies cooked in a cashew sauce from the same thai restaurant. Yum!

I had some baked beans from a restaurant Sunday morning, and that gave me a *slightly* loose stool eventually, but not that loose - and just the one. I've remained pretty regular at two stools a day, well formed.

It seems that when I eat something with complex carbohydrates in it, sometimes it gives me one softer-than-normal stool (i.e. not well formed), but that's the end of it - no persistant problems.

For example, I had some regular refried beans with dinner last night (pinto beans contain a starch in them), and my stool this morning was not as well-formed as normal. But other than that I'm fine.

Here's what I'm thinking about this: I think/hope that my bacterial problem may be largely "cured" now (knock on wood), which is why I don't develop recurrent problems from eating something that I don't fully digest.

But, I think my villi still need time to heal, as there are some complex carbs that I am not fully digesting - giving me a softer stool after eating them (and some gas, from the undigested carbohydrates feeding bacteria in my intestines. But, hopefully there is a healthy bacterial makeup in there now, so eating the complex carbs doesn't trigger the "vicious cycle", it just gives me one loose stool).

Anyway - I feel like I am on the road to being able to say I am fully "cured". After having this for 12 years, this is a great feeling.

curl3d
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2012
Total Posts : 382
   Posted 11/21/2012 11:18 AM (GMT -7)   
Sounds great Dr Briggs! Keep up the good work
Status: In remission since beginning of April 2012
Diet: No gluten, no starches and avoiding eating much sugar.
Medicine: Asacol 4x100 daily
FT: Performed Fecal Bacteriotherapy at home using my wife as donor starting the 29th of February for 27 days. Please see tinyurl.com/bw5fn8g for the procedure I used

kookoo
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 12
   Posted 11/21/2012 2:22 PM (GMT -7)   
Thats great Dr Briggs.I did another last weekend too. I am also feeling better, much more energy and people say my face looks brighter. What a journey there and back, yes it has been about 8 years for me. Have since learned taking ro accutane (for acne) which I did coupled with low immune (I had a tooth that died for about 4 years but didnt know) can cause this. Weird when you don't recover though. My severe gas (like something was dying is settling) and I am hoping some of my 'auto immuny' things keep improving. Wow so glad I tried this... touch wood....
Diet: Paleo style
Taking: Mastic Gum, Serrapeptase and digestive enzymes

Briggs
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts : 66
   Posted 11/27/2012 10:52 AM (GMT -7)   
Update:

Things are going great. Things have been going so well, I decided to not do any transplants this past weekend, and see if things continue to be fine. This would have been my fifth weekend of doing transplants. Even if things remain fine, I may do another transplant next weekend just to be overly cautious.

I've been getting more adventurous about eating foods off the SCD. I've had thai fried rice a few times (including eating it right now, with lots of veggies in it), rice crackers, and ate at a mexican restaurant over the weekend (got the fajitas, but didn't eat the tortillas - plenty of rice and beans though). We had quite a bit of leftovers from the mexican place, so I continued to eat that on Sunday and Monday. After three days of eating rice and refried beans with shredded cheese that probably had some form of starch to keep it from sticking (all non-SCD legal), I had one slightly unformed stool, but other than that everything was perfectly fine.

Woohoo!

So, things are going very well. To recap - I was diagnosed with UC about 12 years ago, and spent time on sulfasalazine and prednisone with no benefit (15-20 bloody very loose stools a day), then eventually Remicade after developing a fistula. I was on the Remicade for a little over 7 years, which partially controlled things (5-7 loose stools a day, no bleeding as long as I got infusions every ~11 weeks).

I am now off all medications, and doing great. Two well-formed stools a day.

I went on the SCD at the time of my last Remicade infusion (almost 16 weeks ago). I added S. Boulardi as a supplement a few weeks into it. about 11 weeks into it I started fecal transplants on the weekends, after spending about a week on an enzyme intended to break up bacterial biofilm in the intestines.

While the science of this makes sense to me and the scientific part of my brain fully expected this to work, part of me is very pessimistic, and is constantly surprised about this. When I do have to go to the bathroom (generally twice a day), that part of me is always expecting it to be a typical old colitis-poop - and for all of my colitis symptoms to return.

So far though, things are going great.

Bacon Girl
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Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 5482
   Posted 11/27/2012 2:11 PM (GMT -7)   
dr. briggs, that is great news! i'm so happy to hear this worked for you. i was worried that when you starting going off of SCD you might get symptoms again. i'm glad that's not the case.

have you seen your GI doctor to tell them about what you're doing? mine is usually not supportive of anything i try so i'm interested to see what yours says. when i told my doc i did fecal transplant, he thought i was nuts and couldn't believe i did it at home.
Joanna, 23
Currently: no meds. vit D, coconut kefir, fish oil, astaxanthin, l-carnitine, magnesium oil, b12 shots-1000mg
Tried: canasa, rowasa, entocort, pred, 6mp, remicade, lialda, welchol, bentyl, LDN, cipro, flagyl, VSL/Vit E enema, 8 fecal transplants, terramin clay, aloe vera,
diet: paleo (5 years GF vegan/fruitarian)
no dairy/legumes/grains/starches/seaweeds/eggs/nuts/seeds/nightshades

upanashad
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Date Joined Jun 2012
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 11/27/2012 8:20 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi, I'm just wondering if anyone has tried to save the poop overnight and use it in the morning? My donor just went but I have the flu and I'm just too tired to do it tonight. I was thinking of covering it in saline and keeping it in the fridge until tomorrow?

Dr Briggs, I'm really happy to hear about your success. It's nothing short of miraculous! I have seen really good results, too, but I haven't been able to do them regularly enough to really turn things around, but now that I know they work I'm going to find another donor (I have three volunteers - everyone wants to give me crap :) ) and try to do them more regularly for awhile. It's very encouraging to hear of other's success stories.

zucchini
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 389
   Posted 11/27/2012 9:12 PM (GMT -7)   
Woohoo!  Way to go Dr.Briggs.  Thanks for keeping us updated, I really really hope things continue to go so well for you.  I'd be really wary of eating toooo adventurously, though I have a tendency to do that myself.
 
 

kookoo
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 12
   Posted 11/28/2012 1:24 AM (GMT -7)   
Good stuff Dr Briggs. I think you could do worse than beans and rice. I have been doing fairly intensive biofilm therapy with Candex and Kirkmans biofilm defence as I cant get the Claire labs one. I missed my weekend transplant as my daughter was away and have pretty much gone downhill a bit. Stopped taking my digestive enzymes for a day which wasnt a good idea as my GERD came back (although it hadn't completely gone was much better). I am hoping it is a bit of a herxheimer effect of the biofilm breaking up I can see it floating on the toilet so it must be working? I have started taking some astragalus to try to boost my immune system to take care of the bacteria being set free.My daughter came home and I did a small transpant last night and picked up a bit this afternoon. My black seed oil is a godsend...does anyone know what will happen with the bacteria will it just be taken care of by the immune system? Upanashad I have left the poop for the afternoon but not overnight I have read it is OK for 24 hrs but I guess fresh is best!! JOY! lol

Briggs
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts : 66
   Posted 11/30/2012 9:20 AM (GMT -7)   
bananagirl said...

have you seen your GI doctor to tell them about what you're doing? mine is usually not supportive of anything i try so i'm interested to see what yours says. when i told my doc i did fecal transplant, he thought i was nuts and couldn't believe i did it at home.

I talked to him before I started - I haven't told him yet how well it has worked - I'm really looking forward to that. :)

My GI actually seemed somewhat supportive when I told him about it - although he did say that he couldn't do the process himself.

Briggs
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts : 66
   Posted 11/30/2012 9:24 AM (GMT -7)   
upanashad said...
Hi, I'm just wondering if anyone has tried to save the poop overnight and use it in the morning? My donor just went but I have the flu and I'm just too tired to do it tonight. I was thinking of covering it in saline and keeping it in the fridge until tomorrow?

Dr Briggs, I'm really happy to hear about your success. It's nothing short of miraculous! I have seen really good results, too, but I haven't been able to do them regularly enough to really turn things around, but now that I know they work I'm going to find another donor (I have three volunteers - everyone wants to give me crap :) ) and try to do them more regularly for awhile. It's very encouraging to hear of other's success stories.


heh heh (everyone wants to give you crap).

I always used mine right away. I don't know how fragile the bacteria are - I know they don't survive long when exposed to air (at least the anaerobes don't, and those are often the ones that are missing in people with UC), and also they can die from osmotic shock if you don't use saline. But, if you cover them with saline, I don't know how long they can last. Many studies though have kept a sample for up to 10 hours before using.

solomani
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 38
   Posted 11/30/2012 10:05 AM (GMT -7)   
What heartening news. As a doctor any views on what maybe happening with someone with ulcerative proctitis as opposed to UC and CD? I have had UP for 21 years but its well controlled by enemas.

I am tempted to follow the same pattern as you once I hit my 12 week mark with SCD (at 6w). I would hazard to guess for UP I just need to get the FMT into the rectum and not any deeper. But no harm in letting it go deeper.

Also, any chance of a detailed process of what you did at some point - items used, regime of drugs (if any) etc?
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