Resistant Starch diet improves UC

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aguywithuc
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   Posted 3/31/2013 8:14 PM (GMT -7)   
"only that ingredient, no mixes"

I never understood why it would not work and why it had the warning.

I will try your recommendation. Let us know how you progress.

I had assumed it needed to form there, that consuming it would result in it breaking down into something else but one study posted said oral route was good.

TheAnswersYouSeek
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   Posted 3/31/2013 8:37 PM (GMT -7)   
More fun with Sodium butyrate

Effects on yeasts
jac.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/09/11/jac.dkr358.full.pdf
[URL]
Current: No Dairy, Sugar, Wheat or Soy.. Olive leaf (20% Oleuoropein), Lauricidin/monolaurin, NA-Cysteine, CoQ10, Psyllium/Apple pectin, Ferula, Triphalia, methylation pathway support, sodium butyrate, anantamul, Blis K12, VSL#3, PB8, Proteolytic enzymes, Proferrin

TheAnswersYouSeek
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   Posted 3/31/2013 9:01 PM (GMT -7)   
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312834/
Current: No Dairy, Sugar, Wheat or Soy.. Olive leaf (20% Oleuoropein), Lauricidin/monolaurin, NA-Cysteine, CoQ10, Psyllium/Apple pectin, Ferula, Triphalia, methylation pathway support, sodium butyrate, anantamul, Blis K12, VSL#3, PB8, Proteolytic enzymes, Proferrin

aguywithuc
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   Posted 3/31/2013 9:19 PM (GMT -7)   
"Conclusions: These results demonstrate that SB exerts significant antifungal activity on pathogenic yeasts and
enhances the antimicrobial actions of macrophages in response to these microbes."

Nice.

Well how is Resistant Starch treating me ?
Pretty good.

Black beans are no good for me but Navy beans are a hit.
Same thing again, thick slow moving solid waste that begins to get that grey look it used to in patches.
I had 3 DIY energy drinks today and none gave me urgency.
I went late in the evening and had to 'push' like I have not had to push since I can remember, I recalled being quite young and hearing how people can die from pushing and often due, self-assessed head pressure and backed off. No cleanup. Clean paper.

Navy beans rock. Now onto sprouted whole grain wheat to see if my regular bread is bothering me, I see the good from the beans then see the unimproved portion of my diet and the difference is night and day.

Going to line up some butyrate but if my plan continues this well with RS I wont experiment until completely off prednisone. Bad time to experiment especially if things are already going well.

Please keep the good news coming about Butyrate oral pills. The idea with RS is that it generates it internally. All good any way you can get it.

This is why I consume psyllium seed powder - to generate butyrate, but it never worked this good.

TheAnswersYouSeek
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   Posted 4/1/2013 6:03 AM (GMT -7)   
I'm glad you are seeing good results! Doc put me on the apple pectin/psyllium blend a month ago.. I was taking psyllium alone.. I've also run across studies now about how pectin is a good producer of butyrate. I just think maybe my gut didn't have enough of the good guys to converte it into enough butyrate to make the difference so it needs the supplement

Crazy study about NaB and Huntingtons
www.jneurosci.org/content/23/28/9418.full.pdf

NaB and cancer - this is why longterm paleo/low fiber diets scare me..we need this butyrate
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17970072
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22160140
weeksmd.com/2012/01/sodium-butyrate-not-patentable-so-not-in-the-news-but-it-kills-cancer-stem-cells/
Current: No Dairy, Sugar, Wheat or Soy.. Olive leaf (20% Oleuoropein), Lauricidin/monolaurin, NA-Cysteine, CoQ10, Psyllium/Apple pectin, Ferula, Triphalia, methylation pathway support, sodium butyrate, anantamul, Blis K12, VSL#3, PB8, Proteolytic enzymes, Proferrin

TheAnswersYouSeek
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   Posted 4/1/2013 6:05 AM (GMT -7)   
I like the last link noting it isn't patentable so it isn't in the news...this is the deal, I think..I don't think there is a prescription version..
Current: No Dairy, Sugar, Wheat or Soy.. Olive leaf (20% Oleuoropein), Lauricidin/monolaurin, NA-Cysteine, CoQ10, Psyllium/Apple pectin, Ferula, Triphalia, methylation pathway support, sodium butyrate, anantamul, Blis K12, VSL#3, PB8, Proteolytic enzymes, Proferrin

TheAnswersYouSeek
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   Posted 4/1/2013 6:56 AM (GMT -7)   
www.researchgrantdatabase.com/g/1R43DK054538-01/ULCERATIVE-COLITIS-SEROLOGY-TESTS-USING-HISTONE-PEPTIDES/

Well lookie there.. The Prometheus test is based on evaluating histone activation.. You know what deactivated histone activated genes?
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924977X07002180

And the link above on epigenetics..
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312834/


I get so annoyed when I find this crap.. *** doctors? ***?

So much safer to trial sodium butyrate then ya know, cut out a colon... Ugh
Current: No Dairy, Sugar, Wheat or Soy.. Olive leaf (20% Oleuoropein), Lauricidin/monolaurin, NA-Cysteine, CoQ10, Psyllium/Apple pectin, Ferula, Triphalia, methylation pathway support, sodium butyrate, anantamul, Blis K12, VSL#3, PB8, Proteolytic enzymes, Proferrin

aguywithuc
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Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 3008
   Posted 4/1/2013 7:17 AM (GMT -7)   
PathogenKiller said...
I like the last link noting it isn't patentable so it isn't in the news...this is the deal, I think..I don't think there is a prescription version..


Could not locate string 'patent' in the article.

Sara14
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   Posted 4/1/2013 7:26 AM (GMT -7)   
I love Dr. McDougall. I eat beans and sprouted wheat bread daily. Don't think it helps my UC but it sure is tasty (and healthy!).
29 years old; diagnosed pancolitis March 2007

Started first course of pred 2-19-13 (40 mg), currently on 20 mg. Asacol, 6 tabs, 2xday; Rowasa 2xweekly increased to nightly for flares; Canasa in a.m. as needed for flares; Ortho Tri-Cyclen; Singulair; Allegra; Deva multivitamin; B-12. Vegan diet.

"I know you're tired, but come, this is the way." - Rumi

Formyson
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Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 91
   Posted 4/1/2013 7:27 AM (GMT -7)   
Thank you for everything in this thread!  The RS and butyrate is our current chosen path as we race against the surgery clock (just found out our teenager has Remi antibodies so are running out of options).  The research as well as food ideas are very helpful.
PK - I am trying to piece this all together.....so when you combined RS, sodium butyrate, plus psyllium/pectin you saw the best results, correct? 

TheAnswersYouSeek
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   Posted 4/1/2013 8:12 AM (GMT -7)   
aguywithuc said...
PathogenKiller said...
I like the last link noting it isn't patentable so it isn't in the news...this is the deal, I think..I don't think there is a prescription version..


Could not locate string 'patent' in the article.


Look at the words in the link itself.

twiggs
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Total Posts : 795
   Posted 4/1/2013 8:17 AM (GMT -7)   
Pathogen why do you think Paleo is low fiber? I eat tons of greens and meats. Greens are loaded with fiber aren't they? Last time I checked they were. I would agree that meats are primary in paleo but they include fruits and veggies daily in paleo. I look at paleo as a "hunter gatherer" diet kinda like our late ancestors ate for many many years. I just dont eat the nuts and seeds part of it. If one would only eat meats then yes that would be scary but a true proper paleo diet includes plenty of fiber daily.
 
Steve

Post Edited (twiggs) : 4/1/2013 9:22:56 AM (GMT-6)


killcolitis
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   Posted 4/1/2013 8:32 AM (GMT -7)   
Are butter and ghee not good sources of butyrates?

twiggs
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Total Posts : 795
   Posted 4/1/2013 9:16 AM (GMT -7)   
Kill, Butter and ghee are yes. Remember Ghee is just clarified butter which means the solids are removed.
 
Steve

aguywithuc
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Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 3008
   Posted 4/1/2013 9:21 AM (GMT -7)   
Formyson said...
Thank you for everything in this thread! The RS and butyrate is our current chosen path as we race against the surgery clock (just found out our teenager has Remi antibodies so are running out of options). The research as well as food ideas are very helpful.PK - I am trying to piece this all together.....so when you combined RS, sodium butyrate, plus psyllium/pectin you saw the best results, correct?


According to PathogenKiller I used the wrong butyrate and saw no results but did not feel comfy with the UC warning. Next time I will be using the one she endorses and is seeing being referenced in the studies.

Psyllium seed has always produced butyrate and good but temporary results and consuming it even in pill form is tough.

The new easiest and most effective thing I have is RS via canned cheap Navy beans. No more expensive salmon and filet mignon. Better results and dirt cheap.

When I began dropping pred this time I got urgency and blood ( I am on high dose blood thinners and vasodilators for recovery from auto accident + UC vascular events ).

However all my concerns are now GONE. This is making me like I was pre-UC. As I taper to zero all I need to do is remove the sugary yogurts I got addicted to in the hospital ( coffee flavor is the best ! ) and stick to my guns on the new diet and I can tell I will be fine.

After taxes I will try and find a few more good for me RS choices. Green bananas are in the mix, cold potatoes were not revolutionary but I already know that cold pasta works pretty good. Nice thing about beans is they can be eaten warm due to RS type.

I have several bottles of apple pectin, research is terrific but I never saw game changing results.

freddyj
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   Posted 4/1/2013 9:56 AM (GMT -7)   
I see sodium butyrate getting popular... AGuy, are you (or were you) taking this orally also?

Question for everyone.. I recall one of the oral butyrate studies encasing this in ph dependent capsules, like asacol for example, so it releases in the colon only. Are we not concerned about just plain old delivery to the stomach?

TheAnswersYouSeek
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   Posted 4/1/2013 10:13 AM (GMT -7)   
Formyson...  I decided to go to a Rheumatologist after being sick for 2+ decades and getting nowhere with Gis but sicker.

I went to him because I had gotten a microscope and located mycoplasma pneumonia in my blood.  I thought it was chlamydia pneumonia originally due to a pic on a site that I now know was labelled incorrectly.  I also found something that looked like a filarial worm (I've got a thread where I documented that process)..anyway.. Doc did his assessment, didn't care about my microscope pics.. And surprise surprise.. He found, Lyme disease, mycoplasma pneumonia and systemic strep infection..  I was floooooored .. ESP with the strep.. Seriously?  Nobody has ever tested me for strep?  I always thought it weird that I've never had strep to my knowledge.. Well, duh, yeah I have.. Systemically for years and years, likely.  These findings were all via labcorp tests so it wasn't as if Gis couldn't have run them.  They just didn't.

I also did a diagnostechs stool test in which saprophytic fungi were identified as being in overgrowth.. But no worms, I had found through my scope a biflagellate secondary zoospores from what I thought was some oomycyte but could not narrow down which one.. So this saprophytic fungi finding allowed me to connect dots and then see that these fungi sure can look like filarial worms with empty bodies.  That is what the doc and a friend who is a pathologist used to dismiss my concerns.. The things I was finding had no internal organs.. Now I think they may be the stalks/stems of these fungi, not worms... Since verified lab tests say that, I'll go with it.

Anyway, I've now been tested for a slew of confections and these are what we think our players are.

But I'll back up...

I started going to docs at 5 years old.  I had my first barium then and they found a constipated colon the size on an adult man presenting as d. They couldn't find anything else said it was likely due to the divorce my parents were going through and I should go to counseling..  Parents tried that, didnt fix anything, I'd rock on the floor for hours my stomach hurt so bad.  My step father wouldn't ever let me not eat everything on my plate including my big glass of milk..  

Back in the hospital at 11 after collapsing at a mall from excruciating pain that had been building..  They opened me up this time, wide open abdominal incision.. Found nothing decided to take my healthy appendix since they were in there, just incase.. Again constipated colon, size of an adult man full of stool.. I had a huge stomach like a pregnant person with very skinny legs and arms..they said I was obese and put me on a diet.  message received, stop eating.. This flipped The switch to ibs-d...

Struggled with bulimia and anorexia through my teens.  Felt better to just not eat or throw up what I was forced to eat.. Mom finally divorced stepdad, I was able to stop eating the things that hurt me.. Low and behold I'm lactose intolerant.. Started feeling healthy then someone hit me head on and I was put on a slew of pain killers, nsaids, steroids and muscle relaxers breaking everything open.  

Gi tried more steroids and everything else beside biologics as they weren't an option then.  I reacted horribly to the drugs gained so much weight, was so sick, and my symptoms got worse and worse.  They of course scoped me every which way (colitis, unknown origin) and then each year during acute attacks they would open me up laproscopically and look around noting all the adhesions from all the surgeries and my raw meat ulcerated entire colon.  

Im still so greatful i said no everytime they introed the steroids (they always did that when i was in the hospital and pretty defenseless) and i got worse.  I knew they were bad for me what I know now about what they do to the infections I have makes me shudder and want to track down those docs.  After 3 years of that with no answers I said.. Ef this and stopped all medicines and changed my diet and added herbs.. 

I started feeling so much better and maintained a remission from blood and urgency for many years just by eliminating dairy and eating lots more veggies (marrying a vegetarian helps). Flared again after a round of cipro for an eye infection in my mid 20s..  Didnt have healthcare so diet was the only option and it mostly worked.  Still had d and stomach hurt.. Now the classified me as ibs-d again..  Ok for many years until a very very long labor, emergency c section and ridiculous amounts of abx due to a fever of 99.1 that I got during labor.  Spiraled down quick after.. Blood, urgency, so much pain... They wanted to take my colon, signed myself out AMA with warnings that I would die and went gf/ dairy free and started cleansing enemas with Castile.

    Started resolving the issues immediately and got me functioning again, but still sick, now battling SIBO...And reacting to pretty much everything I put in my mouth including spices. Went grain free, but was eating lotsa paleo treats because I felt so deprived.  I had already tried gaps and scd to no avail..  Moved to low Fodmaps and the d, urgency and blood left within 3 weeks.  Replaced by constipation.. Tried everything to resolve it but the only thing that helped was warm water enemas.  Started back into natural healing modalities and found out about parasites..  Went on a parasite cleanse and felt a lot better, but the constipation was a daily struggle.. Took handfuls of probiotics, psyllium, acacia, prune juice, magnesium, you name it, I probably tried it...  Added beans back into my diet and although constipated still I was going every other day and steadily improving.

In dec my whole family got a respiratory illness ( I now know that is mycoplasma pneumonia in it's cycle).  I didn't get a cold like I always did.. I'd usually get whatever first and be sick at least 2 weeks a month.. but my gut shut down this time, the rest of me was fine.  

Made an appt with a gi and a rheumy..  12 and 8 week waiting list.  So back on the enemas after 3 days.. That's my rule, I won't let my body go longer then 3 days without eliminating toxins..  Kept up with olive leaf and colloidal.. My body was doing better everywhere but my gut..  Likely because I was killing these things and their toxins were paralyzingly me.  We now know I have two MTHFR mutations which mean I cannot detoxify like I should.

Anyway, still no blood, no d, no urgency.. I was eating moderate grains and very low sugar, but still, had added in sugar over the holidays.. But the poop was getting thinner so I started adding colloidal to my enemas and that kept things moving along but my joints and muscles hurt now.

Finally got into the rheumy.. He ran his tests.. I asked for some help in the mean time while we waited for results.. He added triphasa, ferula and apple pectin/psyillium.  I was taking proteolytic enzymes, n-acetyl cysteine, proferrin, psyllium, olive leaf, monolaurin, vsl3, pb8 and the colloidal implant enemas at that point and had cut grains but not sugar completely.

3 weeks later we found out the infections above AND a huge piece of the puzzle.. I have one mutation on both a1298c and c677t.  My methylation pathways were in bad shape.  Ive never really sweat and basically my body cannot handle the toxins produced by pathogens or by their death.  He added methyl b12 and l-methyltetrahydrofolate starting at 1mcg and ramping up by 1mcg each week to 5mcg .  He wanted me to stay on exactly what else I was on while we waited for the results of my cd57 and interferon gamma to see how my body was reacting after opening my detox pathways.

I started sweating that day.. I smell so much now, but whatever.. I feel no brain fog anymore.. But I was only going once every couple days still.. Hard dark constipated poop, but going at least.

Tests came back that my body is doing a good job fighting chronic Lyme, mycoplasma and the strep.. He added blis k12 oral lozenge probiotics, anantumal and upped my olive leaf.. Also told me to gargle xylitol 2x per day.  Stool test was back and noted mild to moderate colitis was still present.. ecoli is still high along with pathogenic levels of saporphytic fungi and high ammonia levels from all these bugs.  Said he doesn't want to put me on abx and asked what my primary symptoms were right now..  I said the constipation and I was sick of enemas..  He said "we have this fantastic supplement that seals leaky gut, will lower you ammonia levels and address the inflammation. Sodium butyrate" I said I've been trying to get docs to prescribe that for years.. He said "no need, go buy it online and take a starting dose of 3000mg a day broken up into 3 servings and paired with l-glutamine and you will see significant improvement within the month"..i was able to locate butyrate that day and now we are 5 days in and im pooping.  First couple days my body had loose stool, lotsa bowel sounds.. More dark hard poop.. Then it changed medium brown.. Then it got thicker, firm but not too firm until the holy poop that was Bristol perfect and the right color.  I haven't seen normal poop EVER.  And that, my friends is my story

Post Edited (PathogenKiller) : 4/1/2013 12:56:42 PM (GMT-6)


Formyson
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   Posted 4/1/2013 10:18 AM (GMT -7)   
Aguywirhuc- thanks! I know everyone is different, but I am encouraged by your results. Just FYI, Edenfoods brand "properly" prepares their canned beans (soaked, then cooked with Kombu) which supposedly helps with bean digestion.

What do you mean about psyllium being tough?

Well, we have sodium butyrate on order and are going to make a big effort with this approach (among other things)

TheAnswersYouSeek
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   Posted 4/1/2013 10:34 AM (GMT -7)   
killcolitis said...
Are butter and ghee not good sources of butyrates?

If you aren't intolerant or had gut problems, yes.

TheAnswersYouSeek
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   Posted 4/1/2013 10:52 AM (GMT -7)   
twiggs said...
Pathogen why do you think Paleo is low fiber? I eat tons of greens and meats. Greens are loaded with fiber aren't they? Last time I checked they were. I would agree that meats are primary in paleo but they include fruits and veggies daily in paleo. I look at paleo as a "hunter gatherer" diet kinda like our late ancestors ate for many many years. I just dont eat the nuts and seeds part of it. If one would only eat meats then yes that would be scary but a true proper paleo diet includes plenty of fiber daily.
Steve


It is Hellas hard to eat enough greens to get at least 30 grams of fiber a day, plus the putrefying meat sludges it all up.. In 1/2 Cooked cup of greens there is 4-5 grams of fiber, so you'd need to be consuming like, 3 bundles of greens a day. And even the, it's not an insoluble fiber, which is needed too and very important..there are very few sources of it that are "paleo approved"

healthyeating.sfgate.com/add-insoluble-fiber-wheat-2358.html

www.tufts.edu/med/nutrition-infection/hiv/health_fiber.html

Like kale has only soluble fiber.. You'd think brussels would be chock full of insoluble fiber, but eat 1/2 cup cooked and you only get 1 gram of insoluble fiber.

But half a cup of lentils has 8 grams total fiber and only 1 gram is soluble. I <3 beans

Post Edited (PathogenKiller) : 4/1/2013 12:02:13 PM (GMT-6)


twiggs
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   Posted 4/1/2013 11:24 AM (GMT -7)   
Pathogen, I think the 30 grams of fiber quota is a crock of you know what personally. I dont buy into that no matter where the info comes from. I have read that plenty of time before and if you look very hard you may find one person out of a 100 who eat that much fiber every single day. The USDA reccommended 30 grams is just plain rediculous. For instance My grandmother is 94 and is healthy. She didn't stuff 30 grams of fiber in her body daily trust me. I myself eat alot of blended greens and cooked spinach but still dont think I get 30 grams a day and I eat alot because I burn tons of calories. It really depends on the person. My wife for instance could never eat that much fiber let alone myself. I eat probobly 5 times what she eats on a daily basis and I still dfont get 30 grams. So I dont think the 30 grams a day as a whole thing has any substance to it especially to use as a cookie cutter bench mark for all human beings. I dont subscribe to USDA anything..Now flip the USDA chart upside down and now we can talk. This would be called the macrobiotic diet with exception for a couple small changes.
 
 
Steve

TheAnswersYouSeek
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   Posted 4/1/2013 11:36 AM (GMT -7)   
Okey do key.. You believe Robb Wolff and I'll keep with my science. And we'll hope this fad doesn't see a rise in colon cancer rates tOo like there is significant debate Atkins did..you can go educate yourself on both sides of that debate

Good luck on your journey.

I'd like to live longer then hunter/gatherers, personally

www.coloncancerfoundation.org/prevention/expertOpinionsArticles/drFuhrman20100721.html

news.discovery.com/human/health/living-longer-121015.htm

Post Edited (PathogenKiller) : 4/1/2013 1:39:28 PM (GMT-6)


Formyson
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Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 91
   Posted 4/1/2013 11:44 AM (GMT -7)   
PK - thank you for sharing your whole story. You have been through so much I hardly know what to say! What an amazing job you have done in perservering and working toward wellness. Thank you for sharing all this info regarding RS, etc. wishing you continued and improving health.

TheAnswersYouSeek
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Date Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts : 2543
   Posted 4/1/2013 12:01 PM (GMT -7)   
Formyson, so glad to share.. I feel like at this point I have alot more resources then many people and the ability to travel to doctors, eat crazy expensive diets and take chances on supplements that many don't..

I'll continue to update as I have no illusion that these are all my answers and things change through recovery.. I had to go low carb for a period to starve out the SIBO.. There was no other way.. But then you have to do the next step and the next.. Chronic disease is like removing layers of an onion..
Current: No Dairy, Sugar, Wheat or Soy.. Olive leaf (20% Oleuoropein), Lauricidin/monolaurin, NA-Cysteine, CoQ10, Psyllium/Apple pectin, Ferula, Triphalia, methylation pathway support, sodium butyrate, anantamul, Blis K12, VSL#3, PB8, Proteolytic enzymes, Proferrin

TheAnswersYouSeek
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Date Joined Jan 2013
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   Posted 4/1/2013 1:37 PM (GMT -7)   
apple pectin pertinent studies
carcin.oxfordjournals.org/content/31/10/1822.long
ajcn.nutrition.org/content/48/6/1413.full.pdf
Current: No Dairy, Sugar, Wheat or Soy.. Olive leaf (20% Oleuoropein), Lauricidin/monolaurin, NA-Cysteine, CoQ10, Psyllium/Apple pectin, Ferula, Triphalia, methylation pathway support, sodium butyrate, anantamul, Blis K12, VSL#3, PB8, Proteolytic enzymes, Proferrin
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