Qing Dai - Chinese Herb Effective in Resolving Colitis

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chicagobulls11
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts : 145
   Posted 8/31/2013 5:46 PM (GMT -6)   
In this small study, Qing Dai, an herb used in traditional Chinese medicine, was effective in significantly reducing UC. 6 of 7 patients were able to completely ween off anti-inflammatory medications (including pred. and AZA).

http://www.healthcmi.com/acupuncturist-news-online/814-ulcerativecolitis67

study: http://www.wjgnet.com/1007-9327/full/v19/i17/2718.htm

Any thoughts?

aguywithuc
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Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 3014
   Posted 8/31/2013 7:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Need more studies but the combination of GI mucosal protector and thickener ( RS ) sounds good. More studies needed.

"There are few reports on the pharmacokinetics of Qing Dai. Because Qing Dai appears in the stool without significant digestion, the mucosal healing effect could be associated with the ability of Qing Dai to provide a protective coating to the injured mucosa. Qing Dai has been reported to have anti-inflammatory effects on human neutrophils based on its ability to suppress superoxide generation"

Gonk
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Date Joined Jan 2012
Total Posts : 600
   Posted 9/1/2013 6:50 AM (GMT -6)   
Looks good, I'm going to give it a shot. For $12, why not? Found it on amazon. And it is also known as Isatis btw, more results come up that way.
43 Year Old Male,
First flare up in 1998, dx 2001
Asacol for first 10 years, now Lialda 4/day, plus Canasa and Rowasa as needed. LDN as of Feb 24, 2012. Started prednisone 40mg 7/9/13, stopped 7/18/13. Started Uceris 7/17/13.
Supplements include: Fish Oil, Psyllium, Bosswellia, Turmeric, Bromelain, Vitamins C, D, DHEA

notsosicklygirl
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 16578
   Posted 9/1/2013 8:55 AM (GMT -6)   
I saw the news about this the other day and I was excited. Please let us know if you have any results using it. Are there any possible side effects of this?
Co-moderator: Ulcerative Colitis
Diagnosed with Pancolitis, Laryngopharyngeal Reflux & Migraines. Battling Extreme Exhaustion.
Currently: 6mp (25mg) + Lialda (2400mg) + Canasa (1g PM)

chicagobulls11
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts : 145
   Posted 9/1/2013 9:02 AM (GMT -6)   
Give it a shot and keep us updated! I may as well.

Gonk
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2012
Total Posts : 600
   Posted 9/1/2013 9:34 AM (GMT -6)   
I should have it by Thursday at the latest. Hoping this is the magic bullet that has alluded me so far!

plumsmom
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2013
Total Posts : 81
   Posted 9/1/2013 10:01 AM (GMT -6)   
Qing dai is one of the three herbs is CCHerbal. Based on some posts on this forum I ordered this and will be starting next week. I will post results. It does sound very promising.
Diagnosed with ulcerative proctitis late 2011
On/off previously: asacol 4 pills/3 per day & canasa suppositories
New insurance does not cover prescriptions until we hit a very high deductible & meds stopped working well so seeking alternatives since Jul 13
Currently: eating paleo less eggs & nightshades, stress reduction, exercise, inflama-gi, probiotic, fish oil, vitamineral green, bone broth

TroubledTurds
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 8354
   Posted 9/1/2013 10:08 AM (GMT -6)   
dang, sounds like the sheet !

sarav84
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2013
Total Posts : 186
   Posted 9/1/2013 10:12 AM (GMT -6)   
@Gonk, Is it this one? - Qing Dai-Q-0110-EF(isatis indigotica) by E-Fong
I'm finding it for $26.25 in amazon.com. Not sure its the different one I'm looking at!!
Dx Proctosigmoiditis in Oct'12 - Predmet 24/16/8/4mg, Balacol 2250mg, Folvite, Livogen
Dx Sigmoiditis and mild inflammation in the Cecum in May'13 - Prednisolone 40mg/35/30/20/15/10/5, Mesalamine(Pentasa) 4g. Prednisolone ended on 17th Jul.
Current medication -
Pentasa 4g,
Salofalk rectal enema 4g(nightly),
Mutaflor Probiotics (Morning and Night)
Metamucil
Can by body tolerate 8g of Mesalamine

tap
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 474
   Posted 9/1/2013 12:45 PM (GMT -6)   
I bought some from Acupuncture Atlanta recently and it arrived very promptly.

I have not tried it yet. I'm waiting until I complete six weeks of Oregano Oil which I'm using to ensure that my Lyme Disease that I came down with on July 5th is absolutely gone. I took antibiotics for three weeks prior to starting the Oregano Oil and it cleared all of my symptoms but research led me to believe that a longer treatment would be for the best.

London Lurker
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2013
Total Posts : 1048
   Posted 9/1/2013 4:26 PM (GMT -6)   
It would be good to hear how you get on with it. I can't imagine it would work for all, given how IBD rates are growing in China, but maybe for some?
Proctitis '84
Pan Colitis '88
No pan flare up since, many well years between mild to mod flares, some yrs without meds
Low fibre and rare alcohol
Adding resistant starch & raw sauerkraut
Currently Mezavant XL x 1 per day
Salofalk Enema x 1 per day
B complex sublingual
Vit D (ceased K2)
Molybdenum
Probiotics - started Mutaflor, VSL#3 March '13, good results so far

March '13 10 days on Flagyl

imagardener2
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 5763
   Posted 9/1/2013 7:15 PM (GMT -6)   
Someone recently posted about Qing Dai that they had very good results from it.
Here is a link to a small study for National Institutes of Health--perhaps the same one already referenced.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23674882

My gut is very unhappy with most supplements so I tend to order the most hypo-allegenic supplements possible and never any foreign unregulated herbs. I've had good luck with Thorne products and they offer Qing Dai also known as Isaitis (as mentioned).
www.amazon.com/THORNE-RESEARCH-Isatis-Tinctoria-Health/dp/B0012BLQ54/ref=sr_1_8?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1378079787&sr=1-8&keywords=qing+dai Under $13 and free ship with $25 order.

Gonk
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2012
Total Posts : 600
   Posted 9/1/2013 7:15 PM (GMT -6)   
I ordered the one from Thorne for $12.55. There is another brand on amazon, "Health Concerns", that looked ok. Actually the two reviews on this brand were ibd related. I took the cheap route on this one. I purposely avoid the real Chinese brands over concerns of their manufacturing standards. Keep the lead out!
43 Year Old Male,
First flare up in 1998, dx 2001
Asacol for first 10 years, now Lialda 4/day, plus Canasa and Rowasa as needed. LDN as of Feb 24, 2012. Started prednisone 40mg 7/9/13, stopped 7/18/13. Started Uceris 7/17/13.
Supplements include: Fish Oil, Psyllium, Bosswellia, Turmeric, Bromelain, Vitamins C, D, DHEA

imagardener2
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 5763
   Posted 9/1/2013 7:21 PM (GMT -6)   
One patient improved does not = a cure for all but this before and after photo is pretty striking. Would be great to see a larger controlled study of Qing Dai/Isaitis.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3645393/figure/F2/
Current diet=modified Paleo (sm amts of swiss cheese and some fruit OK)
In remission April 2010 after 10 years of UC with no remission ever
gluten-free (bleeding stopped) and dairy-free (less gas) started remission path+food diary
current meds=(9)Balsalazide+(2)Citrucel,(1) VSL#3 nightly
Rx meds have never worked for me except for mesalamine enema

HM Kim
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2013
Total Posts : 14
   Posted 9/1/2013 7:45 PM (GMT -6)   
I am on Qing Dai. I have been taking it since 12 July. It's buleish-grey powder or greyish blue powder... whatever... I quit other medications(Clipper 5mg, Pentasa 2g, Salofalk 500mg) last Friday.
In Korea, recently, there are over 30 people who have met in a online community taking Qing Dai. It has worked for many of us but it hasn't for some.

Before purchasing it, you must check out if it is for medicine or not. In Asian countries, people use it as a natural dye and its manufacturing method is different from herb medication one.

It is quite common herb medicine in China. Less common in Japan, and recently some Koreans include me, started to taking Qing Dai.

And you should know it doesn't taste delicious at all.

Post Edited (HM Kim) : 9/3/2013 4:51:02 AM (GMT-6)


Gonk
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2012
Total Posts : 600
   Posted 9/1/2013 7:49 PM (GMT -6)   
I've taken a shot on literally dozens of supplements with zero studies and only the shallowest anecdotal "evidence". I'll take a shot here.
The thing with UC is it is not really shear desperation that gets people like me and others in here to try just about anything - it's because like our "legit" medicines and our myriad and contradictory diets we all follow, some shift works for some and most of it works for none.
So it's always plausible with UC that there is some magic bullet out there for an individual. We see it all the time.
Sure, my experience is that NOTHING works, but I'm not giving up!
Bring on the Chinese herb.
43 Year Old Male,
First flare up in 1998, dx 2001
Asacol for first 10 years, now Lialda 4/day, plus Canasa and Rowasa as needed. LDN as of Feb 24, 2012. Started prednisone 40mg 7/9/13, stopped 7/18/13. Started Uceris 7/17/13.
Supplements include: Fish Oil, Psyllium, Bosswellia, Turmeric, Bromelain, Vitamins C, D, DHEA

DanthaMan
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2005
Total Posts : 495
   Posted 9/1/2013 11:15 PM (GMT -6)   
keep us posted on the results!

sarav84
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2013
Total Posts : 186
   Posted 9/2/2013 6:30 AM (GMT -6)   
Great spirit Gonk. Keep us updated.
I have also started trying the supplements but none worked so far.
I tried Mutaflor(a probiotic claiming it is specifically to treat UC, IBS, constipation), clay, homeopathy... But none worked.
Dx Proctosigmoiditis in Oct'12 - Predmet 24/16/8/4mg, Balacol 2250mg, Folvite, Livogen
Dx Sigmoiditis and mild inflammation in the Cecum in May'13 - Prednisolone 40mg/35/30/20/15/10/5, Mesalamine(Pentasa) 4g. Prednisolone ended on 17th Jul.
IBS
Current medication -
Pentasa 4g,
Salofalk rectal enema 4g(nightly),
Mutaflor Probiotics (Morning and Night)
Metamucil

chicagobulls11
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts : 145
   Posted 9/2/2013 9:40 AM (GMT -6)   
HM Kim, what type of UC do you have? And how/when exactly have you responded to the Qing Dai? Thanks.

HM Kim
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2013
Total Posts : 14
   Posted 9/2/2013 9:23 PM (GMT -6)   
@chicagobulls11: Sorry for the broken English in advance. I am not a native English speaker and there will be so many grammatical errors.

When I got UC, it was proctitis at first, but it became proctosigmoiditis last year. Below is my English version of Qing Dai experience which I posted in Korean on the other internet community at first.

1. Before taking Qing Dai
Last autumn, my condition was bad for over 6 months. After taking prednisolone -30mg per day- about 30 days severe bloody stool had stopped. After tapering, my condition was good for some weeks, but it my symptoms started to come back. I was going at least 6 times a day and blooy stool got severe. I had taken Pentasa 2~3g, Salofalk suppository 500mg and Clipper 5mg over 2 months but they were not even close to my expectation. It was actually getting worse.

2. After taking Qing Dai for 5 days.
Every morning, there were always severe bloody diarrhea, the bloody stool became mild. I was going only 3~4 times a day.

3. After taking Qing Dai for 2 weeks.
I was going for 3 times, and I could only see blood on the toilet paper. My stool became solid and I didn't feel something left after BM. I mean there was no rectal tenesmus.

3. After taking Qing Dai for 21 days
I was going only 2 times a day, and I could fart and pass nothing but gas!!! I also could hold number 2 and no feeling of urgency. The inflammation blood test result was normal.

4. Now I am not taking any other medication but Qing Dai.

5. Personal thought
I don’t want to say that it works for everyone, but it is worth to give it a shot, because you can take it with your medications which you are on. Thus, Japanese doctors are planning a double-blind placebo-controlled trial and a basic experiments using animal model.


Xileisan is a major ingredient in Qing Dai. If you google Xileisan, you will find some articles.

In China Qing Dai is standard for UC patients in Chinese herbal medicine. Actually they prescribe it with other herbs. In Japan, Hiroshima Sky Clinic treats about 2,000 UC patients with Qing Dai included herbal medicine and many people buy and take Qing Dai on their own. Recently, about 30 Koreans are taking Qing Dai and some of them went to Hiroshima Sky Clinic.

There can be some side effects after taking Qing Dai. Fortunately, I haven't experienced it but, some of my online friends have experienced some bad side effects. So, be careful.

franny19
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2012
Total Posts : 251
   Posted 9/3/2013 2:25 AM (GMT -6)   
What bad side effects?
Diagnosed 2010. Prednisolone, asacol. Major flare year later hospital for 4 weeks. IV hydro-cortisone then IV ciclosporin, ciclosporin tablets, azathiaprin. Ciclosporin affecting kidney function and azathiaprin no good. Another flareup. Hospital for 2 weeks. Remicade for 5 infusions. Stopped working. Adacolumn trial 10 weeks to xmas 2012. LDN since June 2012. Vit D3, biokult, epa, zinc. Mezavant

sarav84
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2013
Total Posts : 186
   Posted 9/3/2013 3:19 AM (GMT -6)   
@HM Kim, Fantastic. Nice to hear that it has done wonders for you. What diet are you following right now along with Qing Dai? Are you still on prescribed drugs?
What are your symptoms currently?
Dx Proctosigmoiditis in Oct'12 - Predmet 24/16/8/4mg, Balacol 2250mg, Folvite, Livogen
Dx Sigmoiditis and mild inflammation in the Cecum in May'13 - Prednisolone 40mg/35/30/20/15/10/5, Mesalamine(Pentasa) 4g. Prednisolone ended on 17th Jul.
IBS
Current medication -
Pentasa 4g,
Salofalk rectal enema 4g(nightly),
Mutaflor Probiotics (Morning and Night)
Metamucil

HM Kim
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2013
Total Posts : 14
   Posted 9/3/2013 11:49 AM (GMT 0)   
@sarav84, I am not on other medications, but it has been just 3 days. There is online community for the people taking Qing Dai and there are some people who haven't been taking any other meds after taking Qing Dai. In Hiroshima Sky Clinic, they indicate people to stop all other meds.
Recently, I don't have any symptoms at all. I got into remission.

@franny19, I mentioned it on the other post. Anyway, bad side effects which I know are light headache, stomach pain and decline in liver function. However, when people cut their dose by half, light headache was gone, . Because Qing Dai has a cold property, it can cause stomach pain, but it is not common. Decline in liver function is very rare, and Dr. Amano who is doctor of Hiroshima Sky Clinic said that if you stop taking measalazine, your liver function will get better gradually.

Conquer UC
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2012
Total Posts : 1210
   Posted 9/3/2013 7:00 AM (GMT -6)   
The formula Isatis Cooling was probably the only thing supplement-wise which got me out of my flareup last year. This year it also worked but im still not quite there yet.
26 yo Nutritionist
UC pancolitis dx April 2011 ~1 month after birth of my first child. Remission after a course of pred (hated s/e esp psychological ones!) .
Proctosigmoid flare Jan '12. End flare: Sept 2012. What helped? Prayer (lots) + Paleo and TCM diet, vit E & kefir grain enemas, Isatis cooling, Clipper, acupuncture, NZ colostrum, squatting, psyllium seed.

Gonk
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2012
Total Posts : 600
   Posted 9/5/2013 12:19 AM (GMT 0)   
I received my Qing Dai / Isatis today. I guess I'll take one twice a day to start. But I also had to go back on prednisone last night, 40mg, so I won't be able to tell if the Qing Dai is doing anything. Should I hold off? Maybe start it when I begin to taper the pred?
43 Year Old Male,
First flare up in 1998, dx 2001
Asacol for first 10 years, now Lialda 4/day, plus Canasa and Rowasa as needed. LDN as of Feb 24, 2012. Started prednisone 40mg 7/9/13, stopped 7/18/13. Started Uceris 7/17/13.
Supplements include: Fish Oil, Psyllium, Bosswellia, Turmeric, Bromelain, Vitamins C, D, DHEA
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